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The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? How will the new choice-based assignment system work now that the socioeconomic diversity policy has been eliminated? How will Superintendent Tony Tata lead the state's largest district through more budget cuts and possible layoffs? How will the board respond to growth and the school construction program?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

Wake's 2009 magnet/calendar application results

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Wake released data on Tuesday showing a majority of applicants were placed at magnet and calendar schools this year.

But the district changed the way it reported the data. You decide which way is better. (Go to the end of the post for school-by-school data.)

In past years, it was a simple acceptance and rejection rate. This year, Wake reported a placement rate instead.

A person whose magnet application was rejected but who got a seat at a year-round school or a traditional-calendar school is listed as being placed. It would have in the past been counted as a magnet rejection and a calendar acceptance.

For magnet schools, the reporting change means that 50 percent of the 9,229 applicants were placed in a magnet school and either a year-round school or traditional-calendar school. Under the old reporting system, it would have shown that 41 percent of the applicants were accepted into a magnet school.

You can argue it's valid to list placements instead of just acceptances because the families did get one of their choices.

Moving on, 77 percent of the 3,887 year-round applicants were placed.

Of the 2,676 traditional-calendar applicants, 95 percent were placed. Staff said some applicants were turned down, noticeably from Lake Myra Elementary, due to overcrowding at Knightdale Elementary.

As for year-round and magnet applicants, staff said some people weren't placed even though there was space because it would have had a negative impact at the base school. For instance, 60 people were denied a seat at Zebulon Middle because, three years from now, their priority magnet placement at Enloe High would have a negative impact on East Wake High.

Click here for the handout with the summary of the stats, the selection criteria and the school-by-school data.

Click here for a post with past magnet selection data.

Click here for a post with past year-round selection data.

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Time for Recall of Wake County School Board

How can we organize a recall vote of the members of the Wake County School Board for with their decision on mandatory year round schooling?

I also want to say thank you

I also want to say thank you to Angela for posting the news about Sen. Malone's death last night. I admired him in many ways and am sad to know he's gone.

two things that I would like

two things that I would like to say:

1) Kent is NOT a part of WSCA. The open letter is not from WSCA.

2) "Many of the pain points you describe could be fixed with better data and more consistent implementation of the policies, not destruction of the policies."

Many parents have been trying to get WCPSS to do this for YEARS. This is not about busing, neighborhood schools or the diversity policy. It is about electing a school board that is responsive to the needs of students and their families.

Some of the current school board members refuse to even investigate flaws in the current implementation of the policy. Some even refuse to admit that there are flaws. Everybody is so driven by the unfounded fear that 'we' want to abolish diversity that it keeps them from improving the system. They are afraid of any chink in the armor. This shouldn't be about protecting any one policy. This should be about educating students in the best way we can. That's gotten lost.

And just as an aside, in case you weren't reading here when it being discussed--I fully supported the Lacy to Stough moves. I agree that those moves were NOT about diversity. They were about growth and it should have been taken care of 3 years ago when the moves were initially proposed.

Sorry to disappear.  I am

Sorry to disappear.  I am traveling but will review in detail on return.  THANKS for the prompt and courteous responses (all of you whom that applies to, including Eric_B).  It is a credit to you!

One thing we ALL agree on - data, data, data (when cost effective -- my only caveat -- analysis is very expensive, but gathering data can be much, much more).

Reply to GreatSchools

I'm replying here to avoid the text becoming too skinny in the threaded view here on the blog.

I am confused.  Did you run the regression based on school data or individual data?  What other variables were considered?

School data.  No other variables considered.  I was looking at the correlation of school average EOG scale scores versus school F&R percentage for both ED and NED students so those are the pairings I used.

One place to look is at groups that advocate for Parental Involvement. They ALSO advocate for school equity/diversity. Apparently they see the value.

But as a way for each student’s parents to be involved or as a way to use middle class parents to compensate for the (this is a dangerously broad generalization) reduced parental involvement of low income students.  Does it help to have just any parent involved?

Bottom line, if we don’t have a diversity policy, we will have many schools with greater than 50% F&R and several as high as 80%.  I cannot imagine how that can be okay.

I don’t doubt that some schools would have high F&R without some mixing of students, but I’m not sure the extent of the problem.  Given that one-third of schools now are out of compliance with the 40% F&R limit, I’m not sure how a student assignment policy that placed a higher value on distance from the school would make things much worse.

Please tell me where that proposal is posted or re-post.

Sure, I’ll repost.

The proposal is to take the one-third of schools with the lowest F&R percentage and the one-third of schools with the highest F&R percentage.  Take the student population that was reassigned between a school from one group and into a school from the other group.  Analyze the academic progress before and after the reassignment for low income and middle class students.  This study should be done on the individual student level using software like EVAAS or something similar.

This presumes a great deal about who was moved – that they are district ‘average’ for their wealth classification.  It is a huge presumption to think personal factors are in the noise.  Also, how far down the line would the analysis be completed?  You can’t really think that change will happen in a single year?

What I’m trying to say is that this is not as important as what you think.  After all, WCPSS did a study of their own like this.  The results are here:
http://www.wcpss.net/evaluation-research/reports/2005/0506reassignment05.pdf
The flaw in their study was in the sample size.  They only sampled about 230 students.

Let me give you an example.  Assume we’re looking at a low income student and a wealthy student.  Assume the low income student is performing at about the 15th percentile compared to state average on EOG tests.  If this student is chosen for reassignment to a lower poverty school, we can look at subsequent performance relative to state average.  If the student in later years scores in the 15th percentile, we can say that nothing changed significantly.  No progress was made in closing an achievement gap.  If the student drops to the 10th percentile, we can say that the move had negative effects.  If the student rises to the 30th percentile, the move was successful.  The same can be done with a wealthy student.  This student may be starting in the 85th percentile, but the same method would work.  We can look at data over several years, both before reassignment and after reassignment.

Sure there are personal factors involved.  One student in the study may have family factors that cause their scores to drop, etc., but with a large enough sample size it is possible to generalize.  After all, how do you think this “40 years of research” that WCPSS keeps citing as supporting policy 6200 was performed?

Taking a quick look at the methodology EVAAS uses makes me wonder if it can really measure anything in elementary grades, since it is based on prior test results.

Sure, you would have to have at least one previous test result to compare with.

What reason is given for not doing it?

Read this blog post: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/wakeed/not-backing-a-diversity-study

Not to mention, if the results support diversity – you won’t trust the results anyway, so why bother?  Given that, shouldn’t an independent body do the analysis?

If the data is made public and available for scrutiny and the study methodology is sound, I would trust the results.  NC DPI would keep WCPSS honest.

This would not be the case if schools were equitable.  Magnet selection ‘bias’ is based on trying to maintain capacity and F&R rates.  It is not the diversity policy that is to blame – it is the inconsistent application of the policy.

I don’t think it is possible to make every school within 5% of 30% F&R unless you are prepared for many more 20+ mile bus rides for students.  I did an analysis and figured that a minimum of 5,700 additional students would need to be reassigned to get every school below 40% F&R.  This is the most optimistic estimate in the district’s favor assuming one-for-one student swaps could be made (i.e., I didn’t consider nodes and the fact that entire nodes of students must be moved).

This being a given, a discriminatory selection process will always be with us under the diversity policy.  If you live in the “wrong” area and/or happen to be assigned to the “wrong” base school, your chances are reduced to almost nothing.

Are you suggesting each school can choose its methodology?

No, I’m just saying that if non-magnet schools could offer the specials and AG programs that magnet schools offer, there would be less demand for magnet admission.  My older daughter is AG and we tried for admission to an AG/GT magnet and we denied.  If these services were offered at our base school, I probably wouldn’t have bothered.

I wonder, who do you think would be so upset about a 100% African-American school with 35% F&R?  And how would that realistically come about anyway?

Folks like Kahlenberg who openly admit that socioeconomic diversity is a legal way to get to the goal of racial diversity.  I admint, this probably could not happen in Wake County given that blacks are about 21% of the population here.

As for analysis, in general – please don’t think I do not welcome studies just because I am skeptical of their ability to be done.  I have actually been trying to figure out how an independent study could be conducted.  No luck yet, but I would hope that something can be done.

How do you think the “40 years of research” that WCPSS keeps referring to was done?  If we keep relying on research done up to 40 years ago in other areas, why do you say is it hard or impossible to do a study here?

Then why would they advocate for them?  Call my cynical, but at least one of these people is directly quoted as saying we should abolish the public school system.  There is no good way to interpret that quote and his stand.

For reasons of parental choice.  Why don’t you read some of Mr. Misegades views in his own words:
http://www.ullisart.com/images/Misegades_Balance_rebuttal.pdf
I wouldn’t presume to speak for him.  You probably won’t agree with him given what you have said here already, but at least you may understand some of his motivations.

I’m not going to even try to justify that “abolishing the public schools” statement because I don’t believe in that.  Others have already pointed out that he is not involved in WSCA in any form.

Nothing?  What about the Open Letter?  I know that is enough to keep me away from your meetings, at least for now.

The open letter was not done by WSCA.  It was written by the coauthors and me before I was even involved in WSCA and no coordination was done between groups.  Attributing this letter to WSCA is prejudging the group if you haven’t been to any meetings.

Or maybe it has not gone far enough. I know you feel slighted by the system because of MYR, but I really fear that you are blinded by your frustrations.  Many of the pain points you describe could be fixed with better data and more consistent implementation of the policies, not destruction of the policies.

Try getting up in a community engagement meeting and telling everyone that more reassignments should be made.  Try supporting a school board candidate that says more reassignments are needed for diversity after this latest round of 25,000 over 3 years.  We’ll see what the public thinks of that.  I don’t think it’s a winning strategy.

Perhaps I am blinded some by the handling of MYR.  I've watched while MYR seems to take precedence over all other factors including diversity and cost concerns.  I don't understand why MYR is going forward when there are so many drawbacks.  It seems to me that the school board is unable to exercise proper oversight in this regard.  Look at all the underenrolled YR schools.

Have you seen how arrogant WCPSS is acting in relation to MYR?  They are refusing to issue MYR consent forms despite the court order forcing them to obtain parental content to assign students to MYR schools.  I would think this is a violation of the court order.  They need consent to assign students to MYR schools.

I think I have been pretty clear on where I stand.

Thanks for making your views clear.

Only 17% remained by study's end.

Eric, thanks for the eval report info.  For those who didn't read it let me paraphrase a highlight:  By end of first year only 52 students of the 200+ group or 25% slated for reassignment remained in the group.  A MAJOR finding of the year 1 study was that most kids reassigned DID NOT GO.  By the end of the 2nd year of the study the student group dropped to 17%.  Clearly, reassignment is something any parent seems to go to extreme lengths to avoid. 

 Think of all the time spent in community mtgs., study groups, etc. and in their own research they find that in the end only 17% remained by the end of the 2nd year of the study.   IMHO reassignment is not as successful as they would like us to think it is. 

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First I have to emphatically

First I have to emphatically agree with Sideburns that Kent is NOT a leader of WSCA. Nor is Ron Margiotta. Ron is obviously in agreement with our groups goals, but he is not a leader of our group. Many of our steering committee members know him on a personal level and he always attends our public meetings. He even sometimes hangs out with us afterwards for a drink. :-)

BUT, he is NOT driving this group. We may ask for his opinion on something, but we ask a lot of people for their thoughts on a lot of things. From educational issues to navigating the political process to which communities' concerns we haven't addressed yet. Heck, I'm soliticing thoughts and ideas from you, supportwcpss & user1234! :-D I mentioned in another posting that we need to basically forget about the 10% extreme on either 'side' and go with the other 80% of citizens who are willing to work through this. I said this to both Ron M and Mayor Williams of Garner the other night and they both whole-heartedly agreed.

As for the issues that Eric discussed in his last post, I agree with him 100%. One thing that frustrates me in all of this is that people 'accuse' us of thinking we have one magic solution that will cure all ills and make everybody happy. We don't. When we mention KIPP as a possible model, we're not suggesting that we can just run all high needs schools exactly like KIPP and be done with it. There are many different solutions that can be used together. And like you said, a 'diversity policy' is one of them. But it cannot be the main (or only) one.

I truly hope that you will come to our next meeting in Morrisville at the Babymoon Cafe. Sat May 9, 4:30-6:30. Listen to what we have to say.

Oh, and to answer a question that you asked me in your last post--special needs that I think the lower income kids have. I'm talking about the high-risk low income kids who have major problems/issues at home to deal with. I know that middle class and upper class kids have issues at home too. I'm thinking of the kids who literally have no food in the refrigerator or cupboards at home and haven't eaten dinner for 3 nights straight. The only food they've gotten is at school. (True instance from a staff member I've spoken to.) Or the kids whose parents are on drugs. The kids who are exposed to horrible violence, etc. They just come to school so overburdened emotionally that it takes some MAJOR intervention to get them prepared to even think about school. I'm not sure that the staff is always aware first hand of how bad it is for some kids.

To GreatSchools

We also know that the higher the F&R rate, the lower the scores.

Yes, this is true.  However, I ran the numbers for all the elementary schools in Wake County for 2006-07 and found a correlation coefficient between EOG scores and F&R percentage of -0.64 for middle class students and -0.12 for low income students.  This tells me that lower middle class student performance is much more closely correlated with a higher school F&R percentage than it is for low income students.  If this really is the case, middle class students may be harmed more than low income students are helped by “swapping” them between low and high poverty schools.  Again, this is not “proof” but it is yet another indication that WCPSS should be doing a study.

We also have evidence (both anecdotal and empirical) that there is a positive correlation between income and parental involvement ... and we presume to know that parental involvement is a key to school success.

But is it anyone’s parent that can be involved or the student’s parent?  WCPSS treats parents like a resource that they can move around with middle class kids to help out low income population.  Don’t you think intuitively that the closer parents are to a school the more involved they are able to be at the school?

…but the data are usually collected such that you can analyze the entire country, not a particular system.  Doing something similar in Raleigh, rough guess, would cost millions of dollars between the long term data collection and the analytics.

You’re overestimating the difficulty of this.  Look at my previous proposal for a study that I posted here.  WCPSS or NC DPI can immediately do such a study for very cheap using EVAAS.  EVAAS has the capability to measure “school effects” on student achievement.  It’s customized to the students attending that school:

https://ncdpi.sas.com/evaas/help/NC/EVAAS_help_NVS_va_school.html

There is also a measure of the student’s actual vs. projected performance customized to each individual student.  This can be used to tell if students are making poor, expected, or above average performance.  Just take the huge group of students that were just reassigned, find those that were moved between low and high poverty schools and look at how the group overall did progress-wise.  Were they “helped” (met or exceeded expect progress) or “hurt” (failed to meet expected progress).  With such a large group of reassigned students, other personal student factors are lost in the noise with such a large sample size.

The methodology EVAAS uses is peer reviewed and approved by the US Department of Education.  It uses a z-score measure to compare groups just like public health studies do.  The populations do not have to be identical to run a comparison.

WCPSS could immediately do such a study and run the reports right away.  NC DPI has already purchased the software and all the data is already entered in and ready to go.  $0 cost, but they still refuse to do so.

What I am about to say may be unpopular, but I have looked at the numbers. FAR more reassignment is done primarily for capacity and secondarily for diversity.

I agree with you.  I think at least half of reassignments are done for growth and not diversity.  That said, the discriminatory impact of the diversity policy is felt not just on student assignment but other areas such as magnet and calendar selection.

One ‘equity’ point you entirely missed – equitable resources.  Capacity, location, demographics ALL play a role in resources. This, we do know!

Are you claiming that high poverty schools lack any facilities or resources provided by WCPSS that low poverty schools have?  I understand the parental involvement issue and the PTA giving, etc. is different, but again, WCPSS can’t just move kids around like pawns and not expect parents to get fed up and reduce volunteer time.

If done right, magnets can be a great tool for diversity.

In my opinion, if non-magnet schools were able to offer the selection of high quality programs that magnet schools offer, it would be very difficult to get students to leave their local school to travel far from their home to another school.  This is exactly why WCPSS restricts what non-magnet schools can offer today.

Similarly, voluntary Year Round can be a tool.  The only catch is that voluntary year round programs would also have to placed in low income areas in order to work, because it is typically the lower income families who do not like YR.  (I am not sure why.  I can make several socioeconomic assumptions.)

Agree with you 100% here.  Mandatory year-round and opt-outs have done more to reduce diversity in schools than about any other factor, in my opinion.  Just compare Sycamore Creek and Leesville with Hilburn, York and Stough.

I would like to see programs like Johnston County's with single track YR schools offering extra tutoring during track-out periods for at risk students.

This makes me think we are speaking an entirely different language.  1975?  Really?  Times have changed a bit since then.  How old were you – 5? 10?

Heh… Even worse.  I wasn’t born in 1975.  I did grow up in a school district under a federal court order to enforce racial diversity through forced busing.

Did you attend any of the presentations done by Dr. Kahlenberg when he was here?  He stated several times that socioeconomic diversity policies are a legally bulletproof way to achieve racial diversity, as if racial diversity was really the end goal despite that fact that using race in student assignment is illegal.  His analogy was to the progressive income tax.  The rich can be made to pay more taxes, but it would be illegal to make white people pay more income taxes.  (This really got on my nerves.  The education of my children cannot be compared to paying taxes.  Is he saying that my children’s education can be sacrificed for the betterment of poorer children??)  So no, I don’t agree that we are only pursuing socioeconomic diversity.  There is definitely a racial aspect to it as well.  I agree with Jenn when she said that she didn’t think folks would be happy with a 100% black school that was 35% F&R.  There would absolutely be many people with problems with that.

Kahlenberg refers to the 1966 Coleman Report in his research because it backs up the notion of racial diversity but omits reference to the 1975 follow-up report in which Coleman notes that busing for diversity failed and that it was ludicrous to attempt to mandate diversity.  That’s the only reason why I mentioned the 1975 report.  Let’s do our own study and report right here in Wake County!

As to your co-authors, I have very strong concerns when a private school trustee is professing to support neighborhood schools.

I don’t have concerns about it.  I know there are some, including some of my co-authors, who support parental school choice through more charter schools, more affordable private schools, and yes, vouchers.  It’s my opinion that WCPSS’s current policies are driving more families to charter and private schools.  About 83% of school-aged children attend public school in Wake County, down from about 90+% in the mid-1990s.  It’s been steady at 83% for many years now.  Despite the phenomenal growth in WCPSS, other alternatives (including homeschooling) have kept up and are growing just as fast.

I think that having high quality local public schools would hurt private school admissions and not help.  I don’t see advocating for neighborhood schools or school choice as being self-serving in this case.  (Vouchers, maybe…)

Are you really sure you want to join them?  There are much better ways to fix the system, within the system – not throw everything out and HOPE that something else will work better.  That is not very empirical, is it? … You might find that you actually have more in common with ‘us’ than you think.

Again, WSCA is a parent-led group.  We’re fighting to improve WCPSS.  We’re trying to change the system, not throw it out.  Look at the WSCA goals.  There’s nothing in there that is anti-diversity.  It’s just that everything has become focused on policy 6200 to the exclusion of all other factors including the wishes of families.  Mr. Dulaney has too much leeway to do whatever he and his department decide to do with student assignment.  (The school board only changed about 5% of the reassignment plan that G&P staff put together.)  Everything this district does is tied to diversity goals in some way it seems.  (Magnet admissions, calendar applications, year-round track selection, etc.)  It’s simply gone too far.

You might find that you actually have more in common with ‘us’ than you think.

Who is ‘us’?  Supporters of the status quo policies?  It seems you and I have much in common, but I want to elect school board members that are willing to attempt changes in what is going on now.  Where do you stand?  Maybe we’ll all have a better idea when more school board candidates actually announce their intentions to run.

We have a lot to cover. 

We have a lot to cover.  Here goes:

“I ran the numbers for all the elementary schools in Wake County for 2006-07 and found a correlation coefficient ...” 

I am confused.  Did you run the regression based on school data or individual data?  What other variables were considered?

“Don’t you think intuitively that the closer parents are to a school the more involved they are able to be at the school?”

Intuitively, yes.  But actually – it depends on what group you are talking about, how far it is, and where it is relative to their work and home.  For example, not many people work near their homes, so shift their school a few miles may not shift further from work or at least not significantly.  I believe there is some research in this area.  One place to look is at groups that advocate for Parental Involvement.  They ALSO advocate for school equity/diversity.  Apparently they see the value.

Bottom line, if we don’t have a diversity policy, we will have many schools with greater than 50% F&R and several as high as 80%.  I cannot imagine how that can be okay.

“You’re overestimating the difficulty of this.  Look at my previous proposal for a study that I posted here.”

Please tell me where that proposal is posted or re-post.

“Just take the huge group of students that were just reassigned, find those that were moved between low and high poverty schools and look at how the group overall did progress-wise.”

This presumes a great deal about who was moved – that they are district ‘average’ for their wealth classification.  It is a huge presumption to think personal factors are in the noise.  Also, how far down the line would the analysis be completed?  You can’t really think that change will happen in a single year?  Further, note that the majority of the most recent reassignment students were grandfathered.  This means the analysis will be skewed toward specific grades and also means that the long-term population shift intended by the reassignment will not be realized for three or more years.  It is a bit of a moving target.

Taking a quick look at the methodology EVAAS uses makes me wonder if it can really measure anything in elementary grades, since it is based on prior test results.

“$0 cost, but they still refuse to do so.”

What reason is given for not doing it?  Not to mention, if the results support diversity – you won’t trust the results anyway, so why bother?  Given that, shouldn’t an independent body do the analysis?

“the discriminatory impact of the diversity policy is felt not just on student assignment but other areas such as magnet and calendar selection.”

This would not be the case if schools were equitable.  Magnet selection ‘bias’ is based on trying to maintain capacity and F&R rates.  It is not the diversity policy that is to blame – it is the inconsistent application of the policy.

“Are you claiming that high poverty schools lack any facilities or resources provided by WCPSS that low poverty schools have?”

I do not have data from WCPSS, but it is fairly common knowledge that schools have trouble attracting teachers to low-income schools.  Also, the ‘fed up’ part is about regular and routine moves.  If we had more stability and long-term solutions, parents wouldn’t be fed up.  Regardless of the diversity policy, people will always be moved to accommodate population shifts and growth.  Shifts happen.

“if non-magnet schools were able to offer the selection ...”

Are you suggesting each school can choose its methodology?  I entirely disagree.  If you look at the magnets, they have a range of methodologies.  The idea is that some might prefer a challenging G&T program, others an international, and others a project-based methodology.  I suggest that a majority of students can do well in a base methodology (not saying the current methodology is the ideal one, but one common methodology based on sound academic principles).  Magnets should offer something unique for the others who seek a different approach, while creating the parent-driven diversity that is so ideal.

Diversity – “Did you attend any of the presentations done by Dr. Kahlenberg when he was here?”

No, I did not.  Frankly, I think it is absurd to base it on race.  It doesn’t dismiss analysis made on socioeconomics, particularly if he thinks it is a ‘substitute’ for race. 

But, then again, I am giving my opinions, not Kahlenberg’s.  We all know that race and socioeconomics are correlated, but the idea that we would move children primarily based on the color of their skin is ridiculous.  That said, and I will say it again, I really enjoy economic and cultural diversity.  It is an important part of my children’s education and something I like about Raleigh.

 

I wonder, who do you think would be so upset about a 100% African-American school with 35% F&R?  And how would that realistically come about anyway?

 

As for the tax analogy – I am with you – yikes!

 

As for analysis, in general – please don’t think I do not welcome studies just because I am skeptical of their ability to be done.  I have actually been trying to figure out how an independent study could be conducted.  No luck yet, but I would hope that something can be done.

  • “About 83% of school-aged children attend public school in Wake County, down from about 90+% in the mid-1990s.”

I wonder if the private education shift is correlated with in-migration from cities where private school is the norm?

  • “I think that having high quality local public schools would hurt private school admissions and not help.  I don’t see advocating for neighborhood schools or school choice as being self-serving in this case.  (Vouchers, maybe…”)
  • Then why would they advocate for them?  Call my cynical, but at least one of these people is directly quoted as saying we should abolish the public school system.  There is no good way to interpret that quote and his stand.

  • “Look at the WSCA goals.  There’s nothing in there that is anti-diversity.”

Nothing?  What about the Open Letter?  I know that is enough to keep me away from your meetings, at least for now.

What about this mission statement – “Stable neighborhood schools in a community model”?  It sounds nice, but it is impossible to have “neighborhood schools” and equity, at least in the context I understand for ‘neighborhood schools’.  Is there some definition I am missing?

  • “It’s simply gone too far.”

Or maybe it has not gone far enough.

I know you feel slighted by the system because of MYR, but I really fear that you are blinded by your frustrations.  Many of the pain points you describe could be fixed with better data and more consistent implementation of the policies, not destruction of the policies.

 

  • “Where do you stand?”
  • I think I have been pretty clear on where I stand.  I stand for Great Schools – all WCPSS schools should be great.  There should not be ‘good schools’ and ‘bad schools’.  I believe that one factor in this must be equity, in order to create the optimum environment for achievement for all children.  Others include improved data analytics and applications, improvements to the magnet/charter program, etc.

 

What am I against?  Any candidate who is anti-diversity/equity.  I also have a strong concern about an expanded school choice / voucher program for some of the reasons you described.  Expanding too far will have a dampening effect on the public schools. 

 

(sorry for the formatting - I can't get these breaks to stay)

***OT alert*****

Senator Vernon Malone died Saturday morning at his home in Raleigh.
An official cause of death has not been released, but it is believed he died from natural causes. He was 77-years-old.
Malone was currently serving his fourth term in the state Senate.
According to his Web site --established during his candidacy in the last election-- Malone was a Democratic member of the North Carolina General Assembly representing the state's fourteenth Senate district, including constituents
Following the news of Malone's death, several North Carolina figures issued a statement.
"The Senate, the people of Wake County and the State have lost a great advocate for education and for the future of our State," Lt. Gov. Walter Dalton said. "Throughout his life, Senator Malone was committed to public service and to making our State a better place. I am honored and proud to have served alongside Vernon Malone in the Senate, and the prayers of the entire State are with his family during this time of great loss."
And commissioners in Wake County also offered their condolences.
"Senator Vernon Malone was a man of great character," Chairman of the Wake County Commissioners Harold Webb said." He gave his heart and soul to helping other people. He worked every day to build a stronger community. He believed in working in the trenches to uplift the lives of those who could not help themselves. He believed in the value of education and he dedicated his life to making sure people of all races had the opportunity to get an education so they could live a better life. He served admirably as Chairman of the Wake County School Board, Chairman of the Wake County Commissioners and as a three-term State Senator. As Chairman of the Wake County Board, I extend my condolences to his family and friends. We have lost a fine public servant."
"Senator Vernon Malone was a pillar of public service in Wake County," Vice Chairman of the Wake County Commissioners Lyndy Brown said. "He charted a path of progress when times were tough. He provided stable and reliable leadership on our school board, our county commission and in the State Senate. He was a loving servant of God, a faithful husband and father, and a tireless public servant who lit the torch of leadership for the African American community and all of Wake County."
"Vernon and I have been friends for over 30 years," Commissioner Betty Lou Ward said. "He was a very good legislator, county commissioner and school board member, and just a wonderful person to work with. He was a really good friend, and I enjoyed my friendship with him through the years. He was also a really good friend to Wake County since he has been in the Senate, and has been a cheerleader for Wake County. His passing leaves a very big hole, and this is really a big loss. He was very much a Southern Gentleman."

Very Sad

Hey Angela:

Thanks for posting that.  Regardless of his political views or what anyone thinks of his ideas, he seemed to be a man who was extremely committed to his cause and spent a lot of time serving Wake County.

My condolences to his family at this sad time.

Stoughparents--I am enjoying

Stoughparents--I am enjoying this conversation as well.

WCPSS actually has some good programs (magnet, charter, etc.) that simply aren’t necessarily as well-implemented as they could be. That does not give basis for throwing it all out and starting over.
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I agree with you and WSCA has never said that we should throw it all out and start over. I don't believe that myself, and I don't think any of the other leaders of our group would say that either.

As for parental involvement, Chuck has said on at least 3 occassions that distance doesn't matter when it comes to low income students because their parents won't participate anyway. The fact that WCPSS is willing to assign kids to schools 12, 15 or 18 miles away when there are healthy options closer to home is a big clue to me right there.

I am not so naive as to believe that if all low income kids were able to walk to school that their parents would suddenly become involved. I know that's not true. But at both of the elem schools my kids have been at (both Title 1), I have seen low income parents at the school. They are usually not the volunteers who are there every day, but they were there for a special author's tea or a musical production during the day. They were mostly single moms who were working hard to keep afloat and some were grandmas. In any case, they were there and I know that many of them wished they could be more active. I worry about those parents. Some didn't have cars and had to rely on friends to drive them or take the bus. How many times will they be able to make it a school that is 15 miles away with no direct public transportation route?

We need to think about parental participation as more than just volunteering for PTA. I know that for some kids, just having their parents come into the school for a special program is a BIG deal. It shows the kids that the parents care and that they value what they are doing in school. I agree that some could argue my sis in law's "100% participation" rule isn't necessarily doing much. But it is a start and it shows the kids and their parents that the school cares enough to at least meet with them. At the very least it doesn't let parents completely off the hook.

I know how hard some teachers, particularly Title 1 teachers, work to build trust and forge relationships with some of the at-risk kids and their families. I know of 2 staff members that went to deliver food to families and to check up on them who were at first regarded with suspicion. When they realized that they weren't there to call social services on them or tell them something bad about their kids, they started to open up. It was a slow process but those families now trust these 2 staff members and know that they are there to help. The first few times they went to this neighborhood, gang members on the street corner flashed a gun at them as a warning and gave them menacing looks. Now those same thugs give them a nod when they see their car drive up.

What will happen to those kids when they get reassigned to another school. Will the new school even have Title 1 services period? Will the new school have teachers who are able to handle their special needs? How long will it take for somebody to build trust with them again? Will anybody at the new school even try and have the perseverance that the earlier staff did? Will those kids feel abandoned?

Chuck and the BOE are aware of these instances and it just doesn't seem to matter. We will never get all of those families to care or trust the system, but we *can* get some of them to. We're fools if we don't continue to try.

More responses ... sorry

More responses ... sorry for the format, but it is the best I can do with a few minutes of time.  (Yes, new name, in case you didn't see the note below with Eric_B.)

“I agree with you and WSCA has never said that we should throw it all out and start over.”

Throwing out the diversity policy (The Letter) is starting all over.  And according to the quote from Misegades, he would like to close all public schools.  Sounds like ‘starting all over’ to me.

From the tone of your comments here, I have to believe that you would not agree with them and that is great, but they are still leaders in WSCA and that is very concerning.  To put it bluntly, I am concerned that they are building on your hard work to generate PAC and other support for their own cause.  It is a very dangerous practice to prey on the disenfranchised to generate support for a cause, but it happens all the time.  I can tell that you have done your research and worked very hard for this – but I am concerned that you are being lead down a path that is very dangerous.

This is ‘heavy’ and I don’t want it to take away from the fact that we seem to agree on many points.  See here ... 

“As for parental involvement, Chuck has said on at least 3 occasions that distance doesn't matter when it comes to low income students because their parents won't participate anyway.... I worry about those parents... But it is a start and it shows the kids and their parents that the school cares enough to at least meet with them.”

I agree with both you and with Chuck.  I think the benefit of equity is greater than the distance factor.  BUT, I think children should be assigned as close as possible AND efforts should be made to include families from these neighborhoods, whether by having some PTA mtgs in their neighborhoods or coordinating carpools.

I think the program at your sister’s school is great.  Imagine if the objective of the whole school is to have 100% - giving all families the incentive to help each other get to the school.  It is a lot easier to work as a team toward parental involvement when it is a 35% F&R rate than 80%.

“But at both of the elem schools my kids have been at (both Title 1), I have seen low income parents at the school.”

I have too, but it is anecdotal.  This is a system, so we can’t always pick and choose based on individual families.  It sounds cold, but it is a fact.

“When they realized that they weren't there to call social services on them or tell them something bad about their kids, they started to open up."

I love this and I think it is a wonderful example of how the diversity policy can work.  If a school embraces all of its neighborhoods, amazing things can happen!  Part of the key is stability and that is where the current system has fallen down.  Diversity cannot mean shifting kids over and over. 

Caution: a perfect system where everyone goes to the closest school and diversity is valued,  is just not possible.  Imagine you move node A (low income) to school 1.  Then node B becomes a new low income (let’s assume it is a new community for the sake of discussion) and it happens to be closer to school 1.  What do you do?  If you go for stability, node B will have to go a school farther away.  If you go for proximity, node A will have to be reassigned.  What do you do?

“Will the new school even have Title 1 services period? Will the new school have teachers who are able to handle their special needs?

This is a very important question.   I would imagine that the district will still be eligible for Title 1funding, but it is something we need to look into further.  It absolutely has to be considered and prioritized.  BTW – I am not certain that low income students have special needs that are particularly unique to them.  They may have statistically higher discipline issues and lower test scores – but there are plenty of “rich kids” with the same problem and every school should be equipped with the skills needed to handle children of every need.  But I could be missing some type of need that you have in mind.

“How long will it take for somebody to build trust with them again? Will anybody at the new school even try and have the perseverance that the earlier staff did? Will those kids feel abandoned?

Great points – and great arguments for stability.  I completely agree!  The problem is that we need to get schools to an equitable point before we can have greater stability.  This is the tricky part and one that I have been discussing with Eric_B, below.

“We will never get all of those families to care or trust the system, but we *can* get some of them to. We're fools if we don't continue to try.”

I am with you – we are fools if we don’t continue to try!  These children are the future of our community. They all deserve our best efforts.

Wrong, wrong, wrong

"...but they are still leaders in WSCA and that is very concerning."

I am a member of the WSCA Steering Committee. I have met Kent Misegades once in my life (during the MYR struggles). I disagreed with almost everything that came out of his mouth. I did agree that it was a "Good Morning". You are completely incorrect that he is a leader in WSCA. If he were, you can bet dollars to donuts that I would not be.

Kent was a nice guy -- and seemed very dedicated to what he does and his views. However, he does not share the ideals of WSCA.  He made the same "close the public school system comment" when I met him so at least he's consistent. :>)

Please come to a WSCA meeting instead of making assumptions.

 

But it seems that the others

But it seems that the others might contradict. For example, is it really possible to have volunteer calendar options and neighborhood schools, in such a way that classroom resources are maximized?

Also, what defines 'innovative'? Is this code for vouchers? Again, how is that consistent with neighborhood schools? It definitely is not consistent with diversity.
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For the first one, we did just fine under the old voluntary yr system. I guess I don't know what classroom resources are exactly. I also think that just like the old voluntary system, a year round school might not be in your community. Just in general, neighborhood schools doesn't necessarily mean the absolute closest school to your house. But depending how much demand there is for year round, there might be one within 3 miles or maybe you've got to travel 8 miles to get there. But you will make the decision whether that's too far to go.

I personally would love to see everybody be able to go year round if they want to, but I don't know how that will end up working. I think that all parents should have the right to pick one or the other, but I am most concerned that people be able to have a traditional school in their own community. The rest of the country operates on a traditional schedule and even the BOE took the traditional calendar Spring Break off from meetings. Even WCPSS operates on a traditional calendar.

As for innovative--I've never once thought of that as a code word for vouchers. When I read that I was thinking "Ah, so that's where you're getting vouchers from!" We have discussed the issue of words having different meanings to different people (diversity and neighborhood schools being the two big ones), but I never thought of innovative as necessarily meaning vouchers. Very interesting and I'm glad that you said that.

Honestly between our Steering Committee meetings and numerous emails back and forth with each other, I have never heard vouchers come up. Personally I am undecided about them. There are pros and cons and trying to find unbiased info about them is difficult at times. Its not a goal of WSCA and I couldn't tell you whether anybody else is for them or not. It's not been an issue.

In the presentation we give at our meetings, we talk about some of the 'innovative' approaches that we've found. KIPP schools and a program out of Harlem (I'm not as well versed on this issue so I can't remember the name) are two of them. We have a research team that is very passionate about identifying other options out there.

I guess to me, innovative right now would mean anything besides just moving a low income kid to a middle or high income school. If we're not changing the method of instruction or addressing any of the other issues in some of these kids' lives, then what exactly are we doing? I definitely understand the argument that poorer schools have fewer resources and its often harder to find and keep quality teachers. I do get that. But what is changing for the kid getting moved from Underwood to Green Hope besides a much longer bus ride and fewer academic opportunities (Underwood is a GT magnet, GHE is not)?

I know teachers and administrators who do a LOT of outside things for their low income/high-risk students. Literally spending hundreds of their own $$ to buy food to fill the cupboard and freezer, driving kids to awards banquets and special performances because their parents don't have transportation or are too out of it to care, etc. What if we hire more counselors or social worker types at schools with a higher needs population? If the kids aren't having to worry about issues at home as much maybe they can concentrate more on school. If the teachers weren't having to deal with all of these issues themselves, then maybe they could concentrate more on teaching.

My sister in law works for an incredibly poor school district in northern IL. They fail NCLB every year and have faced sanctions. Their school district is overwhelmingly white, so while their low performing, high poverty schools might look different than ours color wise the environment is the same. Some parents and students who care, some who don't. Some parents who care but can't be involved much because they are working two jobs just to make ends meet. Some parents who are too high to care what their kids are doing. Their schools are all 80%+ low income.

What amazes me about their school system is that their superintendent has required 100% participation in parent-teacher conferences. If the parents don't sign up for a conference time or don't show up, the teachers must go to the parents. She said that they get it done. The Supt placed a priority on it and that was it. I think its 2x a year that they do them. Every year I know my kids' teachers have several no-shows for conferences.

WCPSS doesn't place a priority on getting low income/at risk families involved and they often make it even harder for it to happen. I do know of some 'suburban' schools in WCPSS that offer teachers extra pay ($100 at one school) to go to the housing projects or a center near the families to meet with them. But why not make it a priority for the system as a whole? That would be innovative.

It is good to hear your

It is good to hear your thoughts on year round and many other issues.  There is way too much to tackle in a letter format, so I will try to go point by point.  I hope it isn’t too messy.

Vouchers:  A discussion about vouchers requires way more than we have here.  But, needless to say, it is a dramatic change in direction.  The general problem with vouchers is that they isolates the most involved families in private programs, leaving the rest of the population in a public system.  If we think there are ‘good schools’ and ‘bad schools’ now, vouchers will only make it worse.  Going all the way to a 100% voucher system is simply not possible for a number of reasons.  (More in the next post.)

Other Innovations: As for KIPP schools and other similar models, these are not that far from the charter and magnet programs we already have.  The biggest difference I see is that the KIPP school year more closely resembles a year-round program and also includes a longer school day.  Our traditional schools could do this if it wasn’t for Save Our Schools and other mandates that keep the school year and day as it is.

WCPSS actually has some good programs (magnet, charter, etc.) that simply aren’t necessarily as well-implemented as they could be. That does not give basis for throwing it all out and starting over.

Innovation vs Diversity Objectives:

“I guess to me, innovative right now would mean anything besides just moving a low income kid to a middle or high income school. If we're not changing the method of instruction or addressing any of the other issues in some of these kids' lives, then what exactly are we doing?”

I think you missed the point here ... it is not about changing the method of instruction.  It is about creating a new environment altogether.  You can throw all the resources you want at a school, but with a majority F&R rate, there will not be the parental involvement and modeling that is vital for success.  In addition to the fact that teachers simply won’t go to high F&R schools (of course some will, but not as many as needed).  School ‘resources’ are not just money and teachers.  Parents are a key school resource.

Programs like KIPP can only be part of the solution. These programs are great for a portion of a population, but they are not a panacea for the entire system.  They depend on high levels of family commitment, which simply isn’t possible for all families.

“But what is changing for the kid getting moved from Underwood to Green Hope besides a much longer bus ride and fewer academic opportunities (Underwood is a GT magnet, GHE is not)?”

This is where we agree 100%.  There should be no bad schools.  The non-magnet school they are assigned to should be excellent, as should all schools.  Those same children should also have as much access to a magnet of their choosing as any other child.  The reason for this conflict (IMHO) is that we have magnet programs in areas that do not necessitate the “magnetic attraction”.  It creates the natural conflict you are pointing out here.  That same conflict does not exist for children who are, for example, in a Hunter neighborhood but assigned to Lacy.

Parental Involvement:

 “What amazes me about their school system is that their superintendent has required 100% participation...”

Very interesting indeed.  There are a lot of innovative ways to encourage parental involvement.  Here is a great resource: www.NCPIE.org  One thing to consider is that we are fortunate that our system-wide F&R rate is only ~30% (hoping the economy does not get too much worse), so we can use multiple methods to improve parental involvement and its’ impact.

“WCPSS doesn't place a priority on getting low income/at risk families involved”

Do you have any basis for this?  This is a pretty strong generalization.  I would be very curious to see what WCPSS does/not do to get these families involved.  That said, I have seen studies that show that (on average) it is very hard to engage LI families – whether their schedules don’t allow it or their upbringing didn’t model it – the fact is that there is a strong correlation between parental involvement and income. And there is a lot of anecdotal evidence both from in this system and throughout the U.S. to show that this is true.  In fact, you could argue that forcing a parent to visit the school is not truly parental involvement, but at least it is a start.  Not to say we should ‘throw our hands up in the air’ and give up, but we also have to be realistic about the degree to which the system can force parents to be involved.  What it CAN do is provide role models to children, who will then grow up to have children of their own and will want to be involved in their schools.

This is key – education is the most cost-effective way to ensure the long-term socioeconomic success of our community.  A priority must be made to help all children, especially those who cannot help themselves.

Thanks for the dialogue.

A few quotes for you to

A few quotes for you to consider ...

The only true solution to our abysmal government schools is to close them and allow free markets to provide education. Universal vouchers of say $6000-$7000 per year would solve all our needs. Since in Wake County some $10,000 is spent annually per child ($14,000 if you add capital costs), we could cut the state education outlays by 50%, and provide children with a world-class education.  Universal vouchers, TABOR, Zero-Based Budgeting, FairTax - these are the elements of my vision of America's future.”  Kent Misegades, Chairman, Board of Trustees, Thales Academy – Apex, President, AeroSouth, Cary (2/4/09)

Here is another quote, this from Ron Margiotta, who now seems to support Thales’ mission even though he called it a ‘threat’ to the WCPSS just two years ago: 

Although he supports more choice for parents, Wake County school board member Ron Margiotta said he sees Luddy's idea of dozens of private schools as a threat to the district. "These private schools are a concern because it's just a matter of time before they bring down the Wake County Public School System as we know it," Margiotta said. www.wral.com/news/local/story/1723376/   

Shank--I take no offense at

Shank--I take no offense at all by Eric answering for me. We have spoken at length about this and work together with the WSCA. He answered as I would have, or will below.

Stoughparent was confused about my statement and I can understand that. This will be a little long, but here goes. lol

Last year, I noticed that very few of the schools that were over 50% F&R were included in the reassignment plan. If WCPSS is operating under their diversity/no school should be over 40% policy, then why weren't they addressing any of the schools in the 50s, 60s and 70s? To me, those schools should be the #1 priority under this policy, followed by the ones in the 40s.

In the same assignment plan, I noted that there were several moves being made in order to raise F&R at some schools under the guise of the 'comparable schools'. Where were these kids coming from if they weren't coming out of the very high F&R schools? I went through the entire reassignment plan and looked for each and every node that was over 40% F&R. I counted the kids in those nodes and looked at what school they were getting moved out of and which school they were moving to. I also looked up the distance for each of the moves.

What I found was that about 2/3 (I would have to look up the exact numbers in my huge folder of notes/research) of the low income kids were being moved out of a school that was already healthy. If a school is already healthy, then why are we moving kids out of there? Some of the distances were unbelievable. Downtown F&R kids getting moved from Underwood (3 miles from home) to Green Hope (18 miles from home). The plan noted that this was done in order to raise GHE's F&R to make it more comparable to surrounding schools. Kids getting bused an additional 15 miles out of an already healthy school in the 20s just to raise Green Hope's number?

It was a little less than 1/3 of the low income kids that actually got moved out of a high poverty school. I just don't get disrupting the very students who often need the most stability if they are not gaining something from it. How could this possibly be a positive move for them (underwood to GHE)? What was the priority placed on this move? They weren't at a high poverty school. They weren't at a low performing school. They weren't ESL kids at a high ESL school. They were moved solely to raise GHE's F&R, which is unjustifiable to me.

Later that year (summer 08), I got in contact with a woman who was also working on schools issues. She told me about a meeting she was at in Cary. I think it was one of the 'area impact meetings' that GM held before this year's assignment plan. Anyway, somebody brought up the new SAS software that is going to be used in reassignment. In the software, each of the factors of Policy 6200 can be weighted to give them more or less priority than each other. I forget how many factors there are in the policy, but it lists things like proximity, health of the school, and feeder patterns. Chuck said that there are no priorities used in the reassignment because the BOE hasn't given him any priorities. All of the factors would be weighted equally in the SAS software.

I questioned Chuck and the BOE members about this in an email. Was this really true? No priorities in the assignment factors? Or were there priorities and somehow Chuck wasn't aware of them? I then gave the example of the Underwood to GHE move and asked them what the priority was for that move. I also asked them about the 'comparable schools' policy. Was there an actual definition for this policy? What schools were considered comparable to each other? I brought up Stough and Lacy--Stough's F&R was twice that of Lacy's yet nothing was done in that assignment plan to lower Stough's. Were they considered comparable? Is it a distance thing? Is it geographic?

I heard back from my BOE rep and from Chuck. If I remember correctly, Chuck said that there was no definition of the policy and that they had no set 'rules'. No boundaries or distances. My BOE rep referred me to Policy 6200 to find info on 'comparable schools'. (There was no definition there).

I was at a BAC meeting this fall where Chuck was the guest speaker. I asked him about the SAS software and how they were going to prioritize the factors in the assignment policy. He said something to the effect of: 'The BOE has set it up very well for themselves. They haven't set any priorities for us to use so that they don't have to be responsible for the priorities.' I must not have been the only person to bring this up because at the Community Engagement Mtg at WF-R HS (I think) this past fall, he brought up how there were no priorities because the BOE couldn't agree on priorities.

Really? They can't agree that addressing schools over 50% should be a priority? They can't agree that busing kids 18 miles from home solely in order to raise a school's F&R should NOT be a priority?

A few months later there was an article in the N&O where Chuck said something about how there weren't any priorities or hard and fast 'rules' for reassignment. That it all came down to value judgments. Whose value judgments? I'd rather it be the value judgments of an elected BOE than of a man who wasn't elected and who has his own biases. I have no doubt that Chuck has good intentions. I do not think that he is evil or sets out to hurt families, but I do believe that he is strongly driven by his own beliefs and agenda. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be busing kids those kids 18 miles from home.

I know this post is very long and if you got through it all, I thank you and applaud you. So to answer your question, Stoughparents, I think that its good to have a diversity policy. I think that WCPSS has screwed up the implementation in a major way. They have placed their priorities in the wrong place and not on student achievement. They have allowed politics to dominate--whether its official party politics or making sure they don't tick off certain influential neighborhoods.

I won't answer the 'open letter' question yet. I'll give y'all a break from my long-windedness. Thank you for keeping an open mind about us and our mission. You may still ultimately not agree with us but if you come away with a better understanding of who we are (or aren't) then I will be happy. :-D

Jenman--Exactly accurate. 

Jenman--Exactly accurate.  If WCPSS wins the pending lawsuit they could disrupt a full busload of kids to "tweak the numbers" for 1% comparable improvement and tank stability for all those kids affected; and the following year bus the same kids to a different school to tweak the numbers there.  It just depends on how the BOE chooses to rank the priorities you mentioned.     

This is extremely helpful

This is extremely helpful and clearly we are not that far apart on some points.  (Hopefully you read my note, below.  It looks like we might be posting over each other.)

Where I am confused is about the WSCA mission.  I am concerned that some of these four points might, in fact, be mutually exclusive.  It makes me wonder if this is a group of anti-BoE people (which is fine) or a group who has a clear-cut strategy.  If the former, and if you have come together with very different grievances against the BoE, than I don't quite understand how you can find common candidates who fit all of your criteria.  The "strong" will win and possibly to the increased detriment of the others.

For those who wonder, here they are:

1. Academic success as the first priority for ALL Wake County students

2. Stable neighborhood schools in a community model

3. Voluntary calendar options for all families

4. School Board candidates/representatives who will move forward with innovative solutions

I think we are all clear on #1 ... that is easy.

But it seems that the others might contradict.  For example, is it really possible to have volunteer calendar options and neighborhood schools, in such a way that classroom resources are maximized?

Also, what defines 'innovative'?  Is this code for vouchers?  Again, how is that consistent with neighborhood schools? It definitely is not consistent with diversity.

In fact, 'diversity' is innovative if you look around the country. 

The fact is - 'innovative' is very ambiguous.  How will it be defined when it comes to candidate selection?

And if I think the diversity policy is important, where would I fit it? 

if I may, IMHO

because WCPSS is a behemouth you will find that the Districts that are up for re-election may not share the same issues, some high F&R with no relief (i.e Garner, District 2), some with MYR and no choices, (again District 2 and also District 7) and so on....and so by vetting candidates for each district it can and will be representative of each District as well as the whole school system.

There are many issues with this current BoE, diversity and it's flawed implementation probably topping the list,but is not exclusive to the problem list.

stoughparents--I am a member

stoughparents--I am a member of the WSCA steering committee. I have been to every meeting we have held and have been involved with all of our mission statements, presentations, etc. We have not made 'bedfellows' with anybody. I have never met the man to whom you are referring. I have never communicated with him on my own or through WSCA. Last I heard, he was not even a member of our organization, period.

I spoke last night in Garner about this very issue. We are non-partisan and we are independent. There is no 'man behind the curtain'. Nobody is pulling our strings. We have Dem and Rep supporters. Political ideologies and egos MUST be checked at the door if we are to find any solutions. With us, what you see is what you get: parents who have differing political views, live in different parts of the county, have different 'issues' with the system and a wide variety of solutions. We are not paid. We are not pushing an 'agenda'. We are tying to figure out how to provide the best education for each and every WCPSS student.

I agree with you that diversity is one tool of many. Unfortunately, WCPSS values it above all else. Why else are the majority of low income children being shuffled from one healthy school to another, even 'healthier' school to raise that school's F&R? Less than 1/3 of the low income kids in last year's plan were moved out of a school with more than 40% F&R. One group of low income ESL kids was removed from Penny Road (F&R in the 20s) and reassigned to Davis Drive. This was done over the objections of staff at Penny Road who argued that they were finally making connections and earning trust from these particular families. They were making progress with these children and asked that they not be moved. They were moved anyway--in order to raise Davis Drive's F&R.

That is just one example of many where the needs of the children are not taken into account nor are the opinions of the teachers and staff who work with the students.

I would love to have the chance to speak with you about WSCA. Please email me if you are interested in chatting online, on the phone or in person. Like I said in an earlier post, we welcome everybody to the table. We're not interested in making the school system better for only some people, but for all students and their families. We cannot do that without hearing from everybody. voiceforequity@gmail.com

Thank you for this note. 

Thank you for this note.  I am absolutely listening and promise to be as open minded as possible.  All I care about is that ALL kids in WCPSS get an excellent education. So long as we still have 'good schools' and 'bad schools', we are not where we need to be. 

Eliminating the diversity policy, for example, would be a terrible step in the wrong direction.  Stough was such a poignent example - ours was a school of excellence even with relatively high F&R rates. It can be done.  But when the rates get too high, it is much more difficult to continue to raise the entire school to the level it should be at. 

As to your note, I am not 100% clear on your position.  Are you saying you disagree with the diversity policy or that it is poorly implemented?  You said ... "Less than 1/3 of the low income kids in last year's plan were moved out of a school with more than 40% F&R."  Does that mean you think even more should have been done to equalize the schools?

Where do you stand on this 'Open Letter' from Ron M and his friends? 

Again, thanks for reaching out.  I appreciate that you have taken the time to speak about the facts and very much respect how much effort you are putting into this.  Not sure that I want to be on the front lines, just yet, but will certain consider a one on one conversation at some point. 

Hi StoughParents - What

Hi StoughParents -

What jenman is saying is that less than 1/3 of the reassignment of low income students were made in order to reduce the F&R percentage of a school below or closer to the 40% threshold.  The other moves were more subjective moves that Growth & Planning decided to make in order to make nearby schools comparable.

Where do you draw the line in what is acceptable in reassignment for diversity?  Moving low income students between 35% vs. 20% F&R schools, is that ok?  How about 30% vs. 25% to make both 27% F&R?  Jenn gave the example of Penny Road (F&R in the 20s) and Davis Drive (F&R in the 10s).  Where is the line?

40% F&R was the limit chosen in policy 6200, but Growth & Planning continually makes many other diversity moves unrelated to that limit.  Where does this ever end?  Will students be consistently shuffled to make all exactly the same F&R percentage?

WCPSS claims that research shows student performance drops once a school reaches 40% or more F&R.  If that is the threshold, why are all of these other disruptive moves being made?  What is the rationale?

Regarding the open letter, what exactly is your issue with the letter?  The title speaks for itself, "CMS Schools make noticeable progress relative to WCPSS".  I don't think anyone can make a factually-based argument to claim that CMS did not improve relative to WCPSS and state average on EOG/EOC tests between 2001-2008.

If our current course in Wake County is causing our relative academic performance to drop compared to state average, why are we continuing down that course?  Change is needed.

Was your problem with some of the recommendations?  I can completely understand disagreeing with the recommendations in the letter.  If you don't think charter schools are a good idea or really think the diversity policy works, then we can talk about that.  The letter certainly did not attempt to "prove" that the diversity policy is the cause of the decline.  Only that it does not appear to be working due to the declining performance.  Please come to the next WSCA meeting on May 9th.  I'd love to talk to you.

Personally, I would call myself an unaffiliated, socially liberal, fiscal moderate/pragmatist.  Like Jenn said, we are all parents here with problems with WCPSS.  I don't agree that vouchers are the answer or that public schools should be undermined in any way.  I really honestly would like to know what in the letter you find objectionable.  Is it that Mr. Misegades co-authored the letter and you disagree with his philosophy personally?  Thanks!

All opinions are welcomed

All opinions are welcomed and I sincerely appreciate your input on the issue, particularly since you are on the steering committee for this group.

First - I am a little uncomfortable speaking on this issue because of my 'name' on these blogs.  I am not speaking for all Stough parents and don't want to give that impression.  My intention in the earlier blogs was to address specific reassignment misunderstandings, particularly with regard to our school and the nodes that were moved in.  I might change my name just so there is no perception that any of this 'about Stough' (promise to let you know, in case it matters).  For me, these discussions we are having now are very much about WCPSS as a whole and I want to make that disclaimer.  

That said, I do think Stough learned some very important lessons in this process and one is that the 40% threshold is one that should be supported. 

As to your questions to me - while I have some education background, I am not going to act like I am privy to all the details of what can and should happen in WCPSS.  At a macro level, I do believe that diversity is one important key to success.  As you pointed out yourself, we aren't there yet - so why pin our scores on diversity alone?  (I prefer equity over diversity, but that is semantics.)

What would I like?  In addition to more funding across the board?  I would love to see all schools have a 30% (or current average district average) F&R rate +/- 5 points.  The +/- can result from many other factors, e.g., keeping nodes together so people do attend school with their immediate neighbors, ensuring that children do not have to travel more than 45 minutes on a bus, ensuring children are not moved multiple times, grandfathering, and trying (trying) to track elementary schools to middle to high school together, etc.

Further, we should ideally plan far enough ahead to not have to make these dramatic mid-program reassignments. This might be a pipe dream, as the data and models must be extremely difficult to manage.  However, wouldn't it be nice if reassignments happened only for incoming K, 6th, and 9th graders (except for extraordinary over-crowding or for new schools where families would know well in advance)?

I also would like to see our magnet program enhanced so it is more accessible to all families.  Magnet schools are a wonderful way to 'organically' equalize schools.  However, I am not sure it works as well as it should.  It seems that the policies for magnetizing and demagnetizing schools could use some work. 

Again - I am not an insider nor do I claim to be an expert, but these seem like reasonable moves that could build on the current WCPSS policies.  Like them or not, these polices are lauded by education experts from across the country.  If not applied completely, however, of course they won't work as they should.  But it doesn't make any sense to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

As for "The Letter" - I really don't want to count the ways in which I disagree with the assumptions, the analysis, and the conclusions.  There are several statistical flaws, but I think other experts did a much better job than I could at pointing them out.  One aspect that does bother me is that so much is pinned to EOGs.  While scores are an important measure, there are other socioeconomic factors that are also important, e.g., how many students feel compelled to complete school?  go to college? get involved in their children's education when they become parents? etc.  These factors come from immersing kids in more equitable environments.  They are much more difficult to measure, but they are tremendously important to the well-being of children as they become adults and future parents. 

Education is not just about knowing the answers on a test.  It is also about instilling a love of learning and a more thorough understanding of the world outside of our community.

As for the authors - I have no idea who "William T. Lynch PhD" is - what is his background?  He represents himself as an expert, but I cannot find any bio information on him.  The other three all seem to have ties to private schools and I cannot for the life of me figure out why they would be advocating for public neighborhood schools ... I can guess, but I would not want to presume.  Maybe you can elaborate?

StoughParents

StoughParents –

Thank you for expressing your honest opinions.  I’ll try to answer your points as best I can.  My response may seem a little disjointed, but that is only because I am trying to respond to your points in order.

As an engineer, in order for me to support the socioeconomic diversity policy and the 40% F&R ceiling that goes along with it, I need to see some proof that the policy is working.  One of the goals (the most important in my opinion) is “achieving academic success for all children.”

In order to evaluate whether this policy is working, WCPSS could do a study that tracked students reassigned for F&R balancing purposes to see whether the students were helped or harmed academically by the reassignment.  We know that the district has these tools.  The EVAAS software allows for tracking expected and actual progress at the individual student level.

Take a group of low income students reassigned to a lower poverty school and a group of middle class students reassigned to a higher poverty school and check the results.  With approx. 25,000 students being reassigned over the next 3 years, there should be a huge sample of students to choose from for the study.  We would then know whether a major goal of policy 6200 is being achieved.

It’s just not possible to improve without any kind of introspection, study or comparison.  WCPSS acknowledges this by studying many other areas such as the curriculum management audit, individual school audits, the Effectiveness Index, and other measures, yet refuses to study a major policy area that impacts a large number of students every year.  Why?

I wouldn’t try to pin diversity on all of the problems of WCPSS, but this is an area where many parents have seen direct negative impacts on their children through constant reassignments.  If WCPSS cannot justify this policy with a real study here in Wake County rather than glib phrases like “40 years of research supports…,” then you begin to suspect that no support for the policy can be provided.

I think we all agree that equity should be a goal of the school system.  This is the major beef that parents have with WCPSS.  Year round calendar for some, traditional for others.  Reassignments and long bus rides for some, stable, neighborhood schools for others.  Magnet programs for those from the “right schools” for some, slim-to-no chance for those from the “wrong schools.”  It goes on and on.

I agree with you that we should plan ahead as far as possible to avoid reassignments if possible.  I doubt that this can be done with 4+% growth each year and I understand that many (most?) reassignment is done for growth.  That being said, Growth & Planning makes many poor decisions that make the problems worse.  Just look at the example of Panther Creek and all the kids Growth & Planning assigned there and now must reassign back out to relieve overcrowding already.  This was horrible planning.

I’m doubtful that the magnet program can work long term without continuing to hold back other schools and prevent them from offering challenging and innovative classes and programs.  This is an issue of equity for me.  Why should some schools be held back and kept from offering better programs just to keep magnets looking better?  Why do we have an unequal, weighted magnet selection process that prevents many students from having a chance for admission?

Education “experts” are caught up in too much political correctness and dogma nowadays if you ask me.  Kahlenberg is an example.  He tells Wake County that the diversity policy here is so wonderful, but sends his kids to a very non-diverse school.  Why aren’t the education professors at the UNC Chapel Hill pushing for integration of Chapel Hill-Carrboro and Orange County schools so that their children can attend diverse schools?  It doesn’t pass the smell test.  They ignore other studies like the 1975 Coleman Report where Dr. Coleman concluded that forced busing and integration for racial diversity failed and that diversity must be promoted through other means.

Regarding the open letter, I don’t think there are any statistical flaws in it.  Considering Queens University came out with a similar study and conclusion a few weeks after our letter, I would doubt claims of statistical problems without someone directly pointing them out.  I do agree that there are other factors that can be measured rather than just EOG scores, but many of the factors you mentioned are hard to claim that they result from diverse schools or that they could not be achieved through other means.

I’m not going to pretend to speak for these men, but I will say what I know about them.  Bill Lynch is a retired engineer that has been advocating for the state to work on closing achievement gaps, properly measuring the high school dropout rate and putting programs and procedures in place to prevent dropouts.  Kent Misegades is a parent of children who attended Wake County schools.  He was not happy with his kids’ experience so he is putting in his own time and effort in providing affordable private schools (Thales Academy schools) so that more middle class parents will have other options for their children.  I applaud Kent for his efforts.  I’m sure you know Ron Margiotta.  I don’t know Mr. Weatherly personally.

Does this help?

New Name!  I am not

New Name!  I am not speaking for Stough Parents, so a name change was in order.  Now it is all about Great Schools (for everyone).

This might be disjointed as well.  I am going in order of your comments - trying to take your quotes and then respond. 

“As an engineer, ... I need to see some proof that the policy is working.”

I am an engineer-type (statistician by training) and I love concrete evidence as much as the next person, but it is sometimes not as easy as that.  Sometimes you have to analyze the inputs and symptoms and not necessarily the entire outcome.  This is difficult because we have to make some rough assumptions that these inputs and symptoms are statistically correlated.

For example, we know that schools with high F&R rates have a hard time recruiting teachers.  We also know that the higher the F&R rate, the lower the scores.  We also have evidence (both anecdotal and empirical) that there is a positive correlation between income and parental involvement ... and we presume to know that parental involvement is a key to school success.   But these are just some of the assumptions that can be made as well as some of the evidence that can support, even though a controlled sample can’t actually be conducted.

As for that controlled study – I think you give the system (all education systems) too much credit.  It is very, very difficult to measure individual student success and run a statistically relevant study.  As with any study, it is not as simple as saying that these 5k students were reassigned and these 5 k students were not.  You also have to measure factors that might skew the numbers, e.g., actual poverty rates, educational attainment of the parents, environment of the new or base school, etc. in order to make sure that you are isolating the ‘bussing’ as the only variable factor.  It is just like a medical study, which is why researchers love twins!

There are federal databases that can accomplish this, but the data are usually collected such that you can analyze the entire country, not a particular system.  Doing something similar in Raleigh, rough guess, would cost millions of dollars between the long term data collection and the analytics.  Anything shy of a professional and long-term study would simply not cut it.  Maybe you think it is worth the money, maybe I think we should save the money for our children and look at some of the data that are more readily available.

“I wouldn’t try to pin diversity on all of the problems of WCPSS, but this is an area where many parents have seen direct negative impacts on their children through constant reassignments.” And “I understand that many (most?) reassignment is done for growth.” (taken from two places, but relevant)

What I am about to say may be unpopular, but I have looked at the numbers. FAR more reassignment is done primarily for capacity and secondarily for diversity.  You, too, seem to see that fact, per your second quote.  Take the Stough/Lacy situation.  Everyone keeps pinning it on diversity when, in fact, it all started with a capacity issue.  Several nodes were reassigned out and not filled with the nodes that were expected (from Lacy).  Since we had empty seats, they moved children who were looking to get out of MYR (mostly high F&R), and our F&R went from a manageable low-30s to almost 50%.  In the end, this reassignment was pinned on diversity/equity – but the 50% mark was a SYMPTOM, the problem was capacity and resources.

I know people are upset about reassignment, but don’t pin it on diversity and destroy a policy that has such great potential.  (Note – potential – we are FAR from being there, which is another reason the studies are not statistically relevant.)

“I think we all agree that equity should be a goal of the school system.”

Yes.  I agree that we have to be as fair as possible, but it won’t be utopia and it certainly isn’t going to happen overnight.  Not everyone can get into the school of their choice.  Not everyone can walk to school.

One ‘equity’ point you entirely missed – equitable resources.  Capacity, location, demographics ALL play a role in resources. This, we do know!

 “Growth & Planning makes many poor decisions that make the problems worse.”

As you noted, the growth rate is very hard to pin down and forecast.  I don’t know G&P and their resources well enough to comment, but I would not be surprised if they are lacking the tools needed to prepare and plan adequately for growth.  This is very unfortunate and something that needs to be fixed.  But, again, this is growth – any system will have to face this problem, whether ‘neighborhood schools’-based or not.

“I’m doubtful that the magnet program can work long term without continuing to hold back other schools and prevent them from offering challenging and innovative classes and programs.  This is an issue of equity for me.  Why should some schools be held back and kept from offering better programs just to keep magnets looking better?  Why do we have an unequal, weighted magnet selection process that prevents many students from having a chance for admission?”

I left this entire section because I agree on almost everything you said.  The only exception – a GOOD magnet program would not prevent other schools from offering innovative programs just to ‘look good’.  The fact is that, if done well, magnet programs are the ideal way to draw ‘high parentally-involved’ families into low income schools WITHOUT forcing them.  If done right, magnets can be a great tool for diversity.  Similarly, voluntary Year Round can be a tool.  The only catch is that voluntary year round programs would also have to placed in low income areas in order to work, because it is typically the lower income families who do not like YR.  (I am not sure why.  I can make several socioeconomic assumptions.)

“They ignore other studies like the 1975 Coleman Report where Dr. Coleman concluded that forced busing and integration for racial diversity failed and that diversity must be promoted through other means.”

This makes me think we are speaking an entirely different language.  1975?  Really?  Times have changed a bit since then.  How old were you – 5? 10?

In my mind, this is not about racial diversity.  I am strictly talking about socioeconomic diversity.  Yes, there are correlations, but that is incidental.  Based on several semesters of sociology classes, it is much more relevant to correlate social behavior with socioeconomics than with one’s religion or race.  Doing it the other way around is a violation of autocorrelation.  I assume you find that to be true among people you know – yes?  One’s ability to attend 10am PT meetings or one’s INTEREST in attending PTA meetings can be affected be both your job and your cultural experience (not racial, cultural).  If you grew up in a family where education was not important, it will very likely not be important to you.  Now, I know this is a touchy area, because we all know amazing families that are extremely poor and yet place a high priority on education.  But I am talking about statistical correlations and majorities – not exceptions.

The fact is that education is the key to opportunity.  Not to get too personal, but I grew up poor (white) and the key to my success was that there were school programs available to me.  It would be immoral to only offer those opportunities to people based on race or religion.  That said, I think it is very important for children to have friends from many cultures and experiences.  I love ethnic diversity when it can be achieved, but it should not be the primary basis for an education system.

“I do agree that there are other factors that can be measured rather than just EOG scores, but many of the factors you mentioned are hard to claim that they result from diverse schools or that they could not be achieved through other means.”

Seems that you understand my point, above ... ALL OF THIS is hard to pin on diversity policies, even EOGs.

As to your co-authors, I have very strong concerns when a private school trustee is professing to support neighborhood schools.  This just does not pass the “smell test”, as you say.  Dig a little deeper and you might find that Margiotta and Weatherly are also involved with Thales.  Even if they have not said so overtly, it is pretty easy to see what they really want.  I DO NOT want this to cloud the more relevant discussion, above, but it is really important that you see clearly what path they are walking.  Are you really sure you want to join them?  There are much better ways to fix the system, within the system – not throw everything out and HOPE that something else will work better.  That is not very empirical, is it?

And, lastly, I want to be clear that those of us who support the school board policies do not have our heads in the sand.  We see problems with planning, data, magnet programs, MYR, curriculum, etc.  You might find that you actually have more in common with ‘us’ than you think.

What jenman is saying is

With all due respect,  I think Jenman needs to speak for herself - she seems very capable.

My apologies

My apologies.  I certainly don't want to butt in and put words into her mouth.  We've discussed this very issue on the blog here and in person and wanted to elaborate futher and comment on the open letter reference that StoughParents made.  I'm sure she will comment further and correct me if I misrepresented her original point.

No harm , no foul

Eric,

 I respect your opinion and  also that of Jenman, plus I enjoy reading what you say.   Keep on keeping on.

Stoughparent--I have to

Stoughparent--I have to agree with SERaleighMom--WCPSS and the BOE have thrown the rest of us under the bus for years. They claim to care about the system as a whole but it has become more and more evident each year that they only care about certain parts of the system.

I hope that you will take a look at WSCA. We need to hear from everybody in the county because one solution will not meet everybody's needs. We've seen that already with WCPSS's tunnel vision on the diversity policy. Our group is truly interested in what is good for everybody, not just certain schools or certain areas. Please join us to become part of the solution.

Your points here, and

Your points here, and below, are well-made and understood fully.  I have not dug deeply into the the Leesville numbers, but I suspect that there may be some truth in what is being said - so long as some Leesville families would be willing to leave for other local schools.  Based on our very stressful situation with the reassigned nodes from Lacy, I know just how difficult that is and wish you luck figuring that part out.

As for the BoE ... I 100% agree that we need BoE members who are willing and able to really dig into the facts.  I 100% agree that in any election we need to find the very best candidates.

We need candidates who not only understand the education system from a macro perspective, and yet it would be great to have members with a strong business sense.  That is a tough seat to fill at 15-20 hours per week at $14k per year. 

I am fully on board with the idea of bringing on great members and will do my part to make that happen.  As for WSCA, I will just let you know that (at least for now) I will not be coming to that table.  I am sorry, but the official 'bedfellows' that have been 'made' are just too suspicious for my liking.  When you have a trustee for a private school advocating for 'neighborhood schools', something is not right.  And the unofficial bedfellows are even more concerning.  (No names mentioned.)

It is very worrisome that the people who have the marketing and power to rally the troops, might be leading them down a very dangerous path.  But if you know something I don't, please share ...

Please don't take this wrong

Have you been to a WSCA meeting?

If not, is it possible that you are prejudging it sort of like the Lacy parents who judge Stough without visiting?

BTW - unless things have changed, it was my understanding that the trustee for a private school to whom I think you may be refering is not part of WSCA.

"people who have the

"people who have the marketing and power to rally the troops, might be leading them down a very dangerous path"

WCPSS, the Goodnight's, WakeEd Partnership, Stan Norwalk, the newly announced Cary Forum, this Real Estate brouhaha today (the list goes on!) ALL fall under this same category.....so don't kid yourself.

The difference is that

The difference is that those groups and individuals don't stand to benefit financially if the school system fails.

NOT putting you in that bucket, just saying that some of the supporters are concerning.

I understand and no offense

I understand and no offense taken.  think you might really want to check it out first hand, c'mon down to Garner tonight!

however the groups *I* mention ONLY benefit from "award winning" school systems, no matter WHAT cost or what TRUTHS are really out there...it's all about spin....and they are the masters of spin.

curiosity, in your opinion, which supporters will benefit from failing schools?

www.wral.com/news/local/story

Unreasonable and distracting anxiety

Again, not to cloud the very pertinent issues that have been discussed, but I think you're letting a huge misconception make you unreasonably suspicious. 

As we've stated before, there are lots of folks on both sides of the political spectrum who agree with what WSCA is doing.

That said I repeat (adding to Eric B and Jenman's repetitions) REPEAT: Kent Misgedes, Ron Margiotta, Keith Weatherly, (and now we must add Bob Luddy?) are not WSCA members. Anyone else you want to add? Obama's not a member either. Rush Limbaugh is not a member. REPEAT: We are a parent led group. 

We may disagree on many things, but the group that includes those who agree that  parents need more say in the direction of their childrens' schools includes everyone from one end to the other and those inbetween. Some of our membership have children who attend Thales schools. I think that may be about as close as you'll get to Mr. Luddy.  From discussions I know that this decision was not always easy but they made the leap because they wanted direct and predictable involvement in a stable school environment for their children. WCPSS does not provide that. 

And regarding your anxiety over the Thales schools, The Thales schools are non-profit. Mr. Luddy is not making any money from it. Quite the contrary. He has been successful and put it back into the community because of what he believes. Most of what is done comes from the community and goes directly to the classroom. The first school, Franklin School, was a charter. He wanted to make the rest of them charters but there weren't enough 'licenses' available from the state for that, so the only option was to create private schools  You may disagree with Mr. Luddy's political views, but you have to give him credit for investing a huge amount of his own time and fortune to do what he believes supports educational choice for families in Wake County. Same with Senator Malone, god bless him. Some may disagree on his political views but he gave his time and passion for what he believes to support education in Wake County. I give both these men credit for trying to do what they believe truly would help the children of Wake County. They have been strong leaders, albeit perhaps for different groups, but as strong leaders they have been lightening rods. We don't need lightening rods in our parent-led group. We need honest dialog.  Maybe what's different about WSCA is that most of the membership can see the value and admire what both of these men represent. Education needs to be a non-partisan topic, on that we also agree. 

I also hope you attend a WSCA meeting. But you will find people with whom you may agree on many things and disagree on many things. You will also find a majority with an open mind willing to explore alternatives to this closed minded BoE that has been a one-trick-pony. 

Look at the numbers-. Only

Look at the numbers-.
Only 41 in the Martin base applying for a magnet seat elsewhere.

At Daniels, 161 families looking to leave. Wonder how many applied elsewhere in past years and if this number is higher this year due to de-magnetizing the school?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shank--I have those numbers from last year somewhere but I have to dig them up. But, Martin has a much smaller base than Daniels does. I forget what percentage of Martin is base, but Daniels was 80% base last year. So it would stand to reason that they would have more applicants than Martin anyway. Besides, I can't imagine leaving Martin if it was my base. Geez, getting all of those electives and extra classes for free? I'd stay there too.

Our base school is still magnet

Our base school (Broughton) is still a magnet for a few more years and we applied to Enloe and were denied.  Same with several of our neighbors.

Daniels and Martin

Look at the numbers-.
Only 41 in the Martin base applying for a magnet seat elsewhere.

At Daniels, 161 families looking to leave. Wonder how many applied elsewhere in past years and if this number is higher this year due to de-magnetizing the school?

Daniels will also be affected by the Lacy families who choose options other than Stough, IMO. Those that go private will most likely keep their kids in private through middle school, and then make a choice for high school- IF that school is Broughton.

Problem with Daniels

One of the problems with Daniels is that they are letting low income students into advanced classes this year. From what I hear, wake has a new policy where students who meet certain academic criteria of scoring really high in math are being allowed to take advanced math classes. In the past, placement was all done based on teacher recommendation, and most of the low income and minority students with really high scores got recommended for low track math. This kept the advanced classes pretty white and upper class. This year the district has a new policy where they are using achievement scores and report card data and anyone meeting certain criteria can be in advanced math. This was largely ignored, but not at Daniels. They followed this policy and now have quite a diverse population in the advanced math classes. I know this has a lot of people upset because those advanced classes have been reserved for the high income folks in the past. (Hey, maybe this is why income correlates with achievement.)

 Does anyone know about this new policy? How is it playing out in other schools? 

let's make a change in WCPSS

Please try to attend 4/16/09 6pm (and/or donate to a worthy cause!) WSCA . . . | learning forward. www.wakesca.org

Wake School Budget Cuts Becoming Reality

http://wake.mync.com/site/wake/news/story/32128/wake-school-budget-cuts-becoming-reality1

Principal Robin Wahl has had to tell 17 employees they may not have a job after June 30

WOW...you guys have some

WOW...you guys have some pretty good information and the common sense is wonderful to hear! What is Wake setting out to do, it's like a run away TRaIN..and it has to crash eventually. HOW MUCH LONGER ARE THEY GOING to be able to get by with this. This should be NATIONAL news...let the country put some heat , and see how the teacher, students and parents are suffering big time from these clowns.

Another Translation Question

I have a rising 6th grader with a base at Carroll Middle (Lynn Road is his elementary base). Is there a way to find out how many kids from a specific elementary school who applied to magnets "got out?" Every parent I have spoken to at Lynn Road with a rising 6th grader (and also applied to a magnet) was denied magnet and/or year-round options. Thanks -

I'm sure it's nodes more

I'm sure it's nodes more than grades being considered...

I guess they consider

I guess they consider rising 6th graders along with the base middle school.

For Carroll Middle only 54 out of 157 (34%) applicants were accepted.

For Lynn Road it was even worse, only 15 out of 100 (15%) were accepted.

Applicants Accepted INTO schools?

Hey Wiki and Eric B:

I am trying to interpret these attachments, but as the data experts I'm coming to you. :) I can't figure out how many YR applicants were accepted INTO LRMS and INTO LES. Is that something that can be figured out with these attachments?

THANKS!!!

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.

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