So Wake is saying that no one is assigned to a school 20 miles from home.
"I don't know of a single child assigned to a school 20 miles away — not one," said Asst. Supt. Chuck Dulaney in the latest issue of In Context, the weekly newsletter of the Wake Education Partnership.
That sure would come as a surprise to some folks. For instance, nodes 51.0 and 444.4.
Students in Node 51, located around Maywood Avenue and Montrose Street near downtown Raleigh, now make the 20+ mile commute to Green Hope High in Cary.
To be fair, the new reassignment plan does move them closer to Broughton High.
But the school district is actually making the commute longer for kids in Node 444.4.
Currently, the kids in that node travel more than 20 miles to Highcroft Drive Elementary. The node is also near downtown Raleigh with the Orchard Pointe Apartments as an example.
The new plan moves Node 444.4 to Panther Creek High, extending the years they'll make that long commute to western Cary. They currently go to Athens Drive High.
In various articles, it's never been said that many students are bused 20 miles. We've only said some students to give an indication of how far the policy can and does extend.
Comments
Maybe they didn't get the message
Wed, 04/15/2009 - 20:02 — Eric_Bhttp://www.wcpss.net/transportation/wheels-of-education/wheels-of-education-2008.pdf
WCPSS Transportation Department Facts
2007–2008
• Operates 877 regular route buses plus 112 spares &
157 activity buses (1,146 total)
• 270 contract vehicles
• 68,000+ students transported daily
• 4,400+ daily bus routes
• 28,500+ daily bus stops
• Average system ride time for students — 20 minutes (one way)
• Average distance traveled by students — 16.5 miles (one way)
• Nation’s 19th largest school bus fleet; state’s second largest
• Serves 153 schools
• Buses travel over 16 million miles annually
• Uses 2.4 million gallons of fuel annually
• Operates at 100 percent efficiency
• Operating budget of $56 million
Hmmm, 75% of students live within 3 miles of their assigned school, yet the average distance travelled one way on the bus is 16.5 miles! Let's have a look at those bus mileage logs to get a true idea of distance.
thanks, ERic, just one more
Wed, 04/15/2009 - 20:37 — AngelaWthanks, Eric, just one more example of the lies, deceit and spin that WCPSS is just that good at.... if only they were that good at education.
Chuck was actually honest.
Thu, 04/09/2009 - 09:59 — Big_PictureChuck was actually honest. He does not know of 1 student blah blah blah because he does not know any students. He deals in numbers and nodes and does not equate those numbers with students or families. In his warped way he is honest. If he doesn't work with students he can't possibly know any students at all; bussed or walkers. What a crock.
Wake County's dilemma: Diverse schools vs. neighborhood ones
Thu, 04/09/2009 - 09:43 — AngelaWhttp://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A366938
Another interesting piece in the In Context is
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 23:50 — FalcKevin Hill's response to the open letter comparing WCPSS and CMS. It is at the very bottom of the page in the In Context link.
He states the policy is for healthy schools to benefit all students, not individual students. I learned math the old fashioned way, so need some help here. Isn't the group "all students" the sum of "individual students?"
He also points out how WCPSS is outperforming CMS in many categories, such as NED. However, his supporting data also shows that CMS is outperforming in the black and ED categories. Unless I missed it (someone correct me if I'm wrong), he does not mention that CMS also has a significantly higher percentage of ED students than WCPSS.
Repeat: why not something new?
Fri, 04/10/2009 - 01:16 — SDR256Repeating a response from another post: Why is the comparison between CMS and Wake the only narrow choices? There are plenty of successful alternatives to choose from. Are we so titillated by our own past that we can't see other opportunities?
Come to WSCA's April 16 meeting in Garner to decide for yourself. The media is no help.
What did he leave out?
Thu, 04/09/2009 - 06:01 — DrActualFactualHill points this out in his piece. He states that the open letter sent is flawed because of what arguements they didn't state, and who is providing the facts. Hill puts forth 4 questions that he taught all his students--if readers haven't read this click on his response to the letter (which Falc I'm sure you did) and note that his point is do your homework and know what is being said, and who (and their agendas) is behind it as well as looking at the facts. My point is this goes both ways and applies to WCPSS, BOE and WEP as well. Wake county parents are becoming well versed in propaganda methods--still not drinking the koolaid. Didn't Kevin Hill (former teacher) run saying that he would be different from the BOE?
So...
Thu, 04/09/2009 - 08:16 — supportwcpssEric B is right and Kevin Hill is wrong. Sounds like a bit black and white to me but I guess that fits the board's style. My guess is they are both right in some circumstances and are missing gaps in their summaries.
No one said that
Thu, 04/09/2009 - 08:42 — Eric_BI don't think anyone said that we were right and Kevin Hill was wrong.
Kevin Hill's questions in his letter were more useful in determining bias than in evaluating conclusions. Of course, Mr. Hill comes at this with his own biases which are obvious in his defending of the WEP/WCPSS "healthy schools" position.
He completely failed to address the issue that CMS has improved relative to state average while WCPSS has dropped. Just look at the EOC data he included in the letter. It's completely damning to his position. These scores are 2001-02 vs. 2007-08 scores direcly from Mr. Hill's letter:
English I
WCPSS: 81.2 -> 78.8
CMS: 67.5 -> 74.1
State: 69.7 -> 73.1
State average went up, CMS went up, WCPSS went down!
Algebra I
WCPSS: 88.3 -> 79.3
CMS: 63.6 -> 70.6
State: 79.0 -> 69.0
State average went down, CMS went up, WCPSS went down!
Algebra II
WCPSS: 86.6 -> 76.9
CMS: 65.2 -> 67.3
State: 77.2 -> 67.2
State average went down, CMS went up, WCPSS went down!
I could continue on (those are the first 3 EOC tests in Mr. Hill's letter), but you get the idea and can see for yourself. CMS performance is improving while WCPSS is slipping.
REALLY Bad Algebra numbers!
Thu, 04/09/2009 - 11:13 — DrActualFactualSupport--I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right, I want the kids to get an education that will provide them with a strong basis for work or future education. Frankly, I'd like to see honesty and transparency from both sides so we can cut thru the numbers and correct the problems that keep our children from reaching their potential. (I'm not saying either side is dishonest, just that it clouds, confuses and detracts from the overall issue making parents skeptical of both arguments not knowing who or what to believe.) Look at Wake's algebra numbers almost a 10 point drop on both Algebra 1 & 2. This despite the fact that kids can take and retake Algebra under many different titles--Math 8+, Into to Algebra, Pre-Algebra, Algebra, etc. They have numerous chances to repeat the course under a different course name and still we drop this much.....both Kevin and Eric and the rest of us wonder Why? What can we do better or differently to improve this situation? This is a required course to graduate. This is being taught in middle school and high school. Which has the better success rate and why--lower class size, learning environment, teachers--what makes the difference for achieving success.
good questions but maybe too
Thu, 04/09/2009 - 16:42 — user1234good questions but maybe too many variable to control. I wonder if hyper-growth of previos years which resulting in increased F&R population in the county did not hurt those scores.
Chuck Dulaney is a Liar
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 22:28 — designmanChuck Dulaney says not even one child is bused 20 miles or more; that makes him ignornant or a liar. I know several students who are bused over 20 miles.
We live in Raleigh near the Durham border; my son and several of his nearby classmates attend Lufkin Road Middle School in Apex. It is over 21.5 miles away. Eight kids ride a bus that holds 56 passengers and it picks them up at 5:50am each morning. Isn't it Chuckie's job to know this?
Chuck's been LYING so long
Thu, 04/09/2009 - 10:03 — g88ky07he thinks he's telling the truth! He's clueless and should be JAILED!
schools
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 22:25 — davetTake the Wake Co. Board of Education to court. It's the only way to stop this.
The new distance "data" came
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 21:26 — CaryCurmudgeonThe new distance "data" came from WCPSS. I couldn't find it on their web site, but maybe it is out there somewhere. Very interesting that the WCPSS data became public via an email from WEP. What entitles WEP to first crack at WCPSS data?
The good news is that WEP's "Exclusive" on this information only served to undermine what is left of their own credibility, in addition to WCPSS's.
Lying by telling the truth
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 20:36 — ApexterThey've mastered the art of lying by telling the truth. Yes, if you look at the distance between two points on a map, they very well may be within a 5 or 10 mile radius. Of course, that is an entirely irrelevant statistic, since transportation is not provided by helicopter or by riding on the back of a crow. The relevant distance is the distance that will be travelled by a bus. The relevant travel time is not the time that a straight-line route can be travelled by someone travelling non-stop in a car that can go 65 on the beltline, but instead it is the time that a schoolbus going 35 - 45 mph, and making multiple stops on a route with an extra long loop to pick up children from multiple stops.
(And, speaking as someone who grew up in a rural NC county and had hour-plus long bus rides most of my school career, bad things DO happen when you have unsupervised children trapped on a bus for a couple of hours per day, day in, day out. Think "Lord of the Flies" on wheels. I resolved that my children would never go through that.)
The lie's even better when you throw in the contempt and ridicule with it. Oh yes, it's laughable that those malcontents think that we're sending students more than 20 miles away, when we have proof that it's not that far at all. You can fool lots and lots of people when you mislead by intentional misdirection that way. Kudos, Wake Ed Partnership. You've proved how low you'll stoop to "win" an argument. I guess your credibility doesn't mean anything to you at all.
Today
Fri, 04/10/2009 - 01:25 — SDR256Yes, Lord of the Flies was one of my own descriptions although thank God I never went through it. So, Apexter - how old are you now? Likely as old as I am and able to blog and synthesize politics. Also you're a boy I reckon. Think about what its like for little girls now - age 5 - Lord of the Flies 2009. God help us. Oh, sorry they're supposed to be tough now and able to fend for themselves. I have a little girl, and I have two boys. I know how it works. Lots of supervision required. Otherwise, one gets the 'short end of the stick' as the old saying goes.
School Travel
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 21:13 — MissVSo wouldn't a more honest measurement be given by gauging the mileage from picking up the first child until the bus arrives at the school? These are the ones who suffer the longest ride.
In Context article
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 19:49 — jmosterThe article goes on to say that WCPSS measures the distance in a straight line from the home to the school. They should be ashamed.
Is Wake Ed's only purupose to promote PR for the WCPSS diversity policy? Just think what that money could be going to.
WEP & WakeUp Wake County
Fri, 04/10/2009 - 10:46 — CaryCurmudgeonRight now, both organizations are firing on all cylinders as PR machines for WCPSS. WEP doesn't even try to hide their role as a lap dog to the school board.
WakeUp Wake County has completely lost their way. They were supposed to be a citizen-advocacy group. Now they spend their time pushing commuter rail and high-density development. We also have them to thank for Commissioner Stan Norwalk, who still seems to pull strings there.
WakeUp is also sponsoring a forum on education. They invited WEP, CCCAAC and other groups as sponsors -- all of them supporters of status-quo school policies. Oh, and groups who do not support the status-quo were told they were not welcome.
Is it any wonder that WEP and WakeUP have poor meeting attendance, as people become increasingly bored with sitting in a room and tossing about the same old tired policies?
And they want to make
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 18:40 — JohnPershingRaleigh/Wake County mo' betta', bigga, mo' bigga grande diversified population cluster f*&$ bad mean jive a$$ place??!!! Dejadme de joder!
Could someone please quantify this for me?
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 18:29 — DrActualFactualMr. Hui, we have some readers that read this blog from out-of-state, would you be so kind as to provide the following to scale this out for them: Distance from 444.4 to previous school (Athens High); new bus route distance to Panther Creek. Provide a street address or landmark for node 444.4 so we can mapquest it please. I'm thinking this is in the area below Central Prison but above downtown business area--btw that is not considered SE Raleigh area correct? SE Raleigh is comprised of what area or landmark boundaries. Sorry to ask for all of this info but it will make it easier to quantify for out of towners doing some analysis.
A good example for Node
Thu, 04/09/2009 - 11:22 — KeungHui (author)A good example for Node 444.4 is 2000 Orchard Hollow Lane. It's near the Highcroft Drive Elementary bus stop at the intersection of Orchard Hollow and Lineberry Drive. It's 23.9 miles from Highcroft and 21.7 miles from Panther Creek.
Node 444.4
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 18:40 — Eric_BNode 444.4 has a long drive to both elementary and high school. The node is districted for Highcroft Drive Elementary and Panther Creek High:
http://wwwgis2.wcpss.net/cgi-bin/prod/mainscript/MainScript.pl?MainOption=ShowPrograms&Assignment=Next&TypePrograms=Base&NodeID=444.4&NoteNumber=
Here are some Google Maps links:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Orchard+Pointe+Apartments,+Raleigh,+NC&daddr=Highcroft+drive+Elementary+School&geocode=FcyIIQId8WdP-yEJnRIv-ETOFQ%3B&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=35.812165,-78.78529&sspn=0.182917,0.231743&ie=UTF8&ll=35.771865,-78.783989&spn=0.18301,0.231743&z=12
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Orchard+Pointe+Apartments,+Raleigh,+NC&daddr=Panther+Creek+High,+Cary,+Wake,+North+Carolina+27519&geocode=FcyIIQId8WdP-yEJnRIv-ETOFQ%3BFT-6IgIdxT9M-ymPOtLZK-ysiTGweuCm-BMWHQ&hl=en&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=35.791361,-78.785706&sspn=0.182966,0.231743&ie=UTF8&ll=35.812245,-78.785362&spn=0.182917,0.231743&z=12
School community connection
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 17:29 — SDR256This article draws a direct correlation between students feeling “connected” and the impact on safety factors that are so necessary in our schools. Connectivity and sense of community affects school climate positively and provides a quality experience for all. This article references a recent study published by the American Psychological Association.
Article: “Students Who Feel Connected to Peers, Teachers Are More Inclined to Warn of Dangerous Fellow Student”
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090211082350.htm
Child's eye view
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 16:36 — SDR256The principal at our closest public school recently relayed that she has often encouraged King Charles to ride the bus with the children to see what it was like, especially for the kindergarteners. Regarding one route, he replied that he'd driven the route in his car and it took him 35 minutes. This was of course without stopping at all the stops.
The principal said that when it rains it often takes and hour and a half for the children to arrive, one way. That is an hour and a half of unsupervised pandamonium. I heard from the ESL tutor that there are often very physical fights. The principal said that the little ones often arrive with wet pants and no one has had breakfast. They get to class late of course.
And she said their self esteem is so low its subzero. They are not blind. One child recently had simply had enough, in an emotional break down in class, jumping up and down yelling "Why am I here? My friends are not here! I hate school! I hate it here, I hate it here!"This actually happened just a couple of weeks ago. She said its not uncommon.
Yeah, this social experiment is teaching them wonderful things about their opportunities, about learning and about school. - mainly that school is painful, just how far behind the eightball they are, based on comparisons to their classmates, and there are new stresses and humiliations waiting for them there every day. Great job WCPSS.
It is all so frustrating
Thu, 04/09/2009 - 00:29 — FalcWhen we were reassigned last year my child asked what she'd done that her school did not want her to come back. I wonder if the ED kids ask that same question every time they are shuffled to a new school.
I've heard the bus ride is a source of behavior issues, too, and the school staff has to deal with it when the kids arrive at school.
WCPSS' response when I brought up concerns about kids having to adjust to new schools was "kids are flexible" and the new school can "just pull them up in the system." Really, because I know other educators think kids need stability, the more the better, and that building self-esteem is really key.
I also wondered how the few kids bussed in felt at our old ES school when most of the parents who lived near the school showed up to the 1:30 pm special 1st grade program. Then they were allowed to sign out their kid when it ended at 2:00, which they all did, leaving only 2-3 kids to wait until 3:45 for their long bus ride home. I can't imagine that would be a good feeling.
If I hear that "kids are
Thu, 04/09/2009 - 17:03 — rr77rr99If I hear that "kids are flexible" arguement one more time I am going to throw up! Someone tell me how to raise these "flexible" kids, because my younger kid cries everytime we talk about moving them to a different school.... said child does not want to leave friends, or the teachers or the routine they have come to know.
My older students... there's NO WAY they want to leave their friends, and SPORTS TEAMS! NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do I just say to them, "Too bad, you're flexible.. that's what WCPSS says and apparently the masterminds at WF road are better at parenting you than I am!"
And it's a "Valuable learning lesson" for you to sit on busses for hours on end and experience new places and people.
It's a load of crap!
Kids like STABILITY! Look in our schools, look at the most troubled children....these are the kids in bad home situations.. divorces with wacked out parents, kids bounced around in foster homes, kids moved around and around ... yeah right.. flexible...ugh! How many times as a parent do you hear, "children crave stability and a sense of place."
I am so sick and tired of it all. It really is time parents, voters, taxpayers, stood up together and put an end to this nonsense. Really, what will it take for people to wake up to what is being done to our kids? It's one big "political/social experiment" .... WCPSS has NOTHING To do with learning and preparing kids for the future. It's all about making themselves look better, and sit on their, we are better than thou pedestals because they support "diversity" and any parent that does not want their kid on a bus at 5 am to drive around at the crack of dawn to a school ...under 20 miles away Ha... is a racist and wants the "old South" back and all the segretation that goes with it.
Ugh.. what a bunch of hooey!
I'm sick of it, too
Fri, 04/10/2009 - 00:55 — FalcI've read a number of books on childhood development and mental health issues (ADHD, Autism, etc.). They consistently mention need for structure and stability. For a long time I was baffled at WCPSS' view on the need for stability given that information. But now I understand.
For WCPSS it is not about the kids, it is about "healthy" schools. Plain and simple.
I think it comes down to philosophical differences on whether to focus on healthy students or schools, how you define a "healthy school," and whether "healthy schools" benefit all students. What came first the healthy student or the healthy school? Do healthy schools increase the health (benefit) of all students or does increasing the health of all individual students via educational approach (not osmosis) result in healthier schools? "Healthy schools" sounds good but if the process of obtaining and maintaing certain demographics throughout a county-wide system results in instability and long bus rides for a number of students are all students really being benefited or are some (ED/LEP/IEP/NED alike) being thrown under the bus in order for schools to meet the policy's defination of "healthy schools"?
Maybe someone should teach
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 15:32 — SouthEastWakeMomMaybe someone should teach Chuck how to use the change route feature in Google Maps. I just did my child's bus route v. the direct route that I drive to her school. 3.7 miles in 10 mins. vs. 2.6 miles in 8 mins. If we pick up 1.1 miles and we're that close to the school, I can't imagine what some of the distances would be for those farther out along routes.
Computer Glitch To Blame For Magnet Letter Delays
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 14:18 — AngelaWhttp://wake.mync.com/site/wake/news/story/31518/computer-glitch-to-blame-for-magnet-letter-delays-in-wake-county
watch chuck say it's not about the kids, it's about demographics....truer words....
I appreciate the more staightforward response
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 15:10 — FalcNow will they publish that exact message on the WCPSS website, in the magnet programs booklet, in the Parent Matters newsletter, on the front page of the N&O and on each TV station?
If they do, my respect for WCPSS will grow two sizes.
That is an interesting contrast with the messages from the magnet program booklet.
"Message from Superintendent
For twenty-six years, magnet programs have been an effective means of This publication is designed to provide information about educational
information or assistance."
Del Burns
"Q: Why should my family consider a Magnet School?
study in these and many more areas.
Q: How do I enroll in a Magnet School?
A: Students may submit an application during the February acceptance period. On-time applications must be time-stamped during this acceptance period. Students are chosen from an applicant pool by computer, using a random number selection process."
There is also nothing in the magnet booklet that explains about the different levels/rounds of consideration and which base schools fall into which rounds in detail. Just some very general information that diversity and crowding are considered. I'd honestly like to see them rewrite the message to say things like "Additionally, the magnet schools’ network has provided a positive climate through which
Thanks Angela...
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 14:33 — SideburnsThat article made my head spin.
Glitches, asteriks, priority placement, changes in base, negative impact, first choice, second chance, waiting lists, appeals, transfers.....
How about....Children? Education? Efficiency?
Several 20 mile + drive
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 13:11 — Eric_BThere are a couple other schools with nodes assigned to them with 20+ mile drives this school year. Look at Knightdale High and Green Hope Elementary.
There are even more schools with 17-20 mile drives. Check out Middle Creek High, Carpenter Elementary, Davis Drive Elementary, Highcroft Drive, Turner Creek Elementary, and West Lake Middle. There may be more.
What is common about all the students assigned far from their homes? With the exception of some of the Knightdale High nodes, all the others I've listed above and that Keung mentioned are from ITB and SE Raleigh. How is that fair?
According to a Rosa Gill quote in a previous N&O article, because none of these parents have complained, they must approve. I wonder if that is true...
Thanks for the Laugh!
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 13:06 — JanisTangoSpacely sprokets...I needed a laugh today! Thanks!
Their analysis would be useful if buses could fly
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 13:03 — FalcIf WCPSS and WEP want me to take their distance analysis seriously, they need to use driving distance instead of straight line distance.
Buses do not fly straight line distances. They drive on curved roads like the beltline, they get stuck in traffic jams, they sit at stop lights, etc. For example, our reassigned school may have been only 2 more miles away, but it added 13 stoplights and 15-20 minutes to the trip. How does WCPSS expect me to trust or respect them when they do not acknowledge reality?
Maybe WCPSS can contact George Jetson and see if Spacely's Sprockets can make them some flying buses. Then they can use concentric rings to accurately measure distance from students' homes to assigned schools.
ELROY & JUDY
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 20:13 — shank56I think you also need to confer with Elroy and Judy about school distances!
Confirm responses by paying off ROSIE the maid. And for gosh sakes, don't forget to feed and contact ASTRO!
PS. Defining our age group here.
PSS: My other fav- Jonny Quest is on one of the upper cable channels - Remember Jonny, , Race Bannon, Dr. Quest, Hadji, and not to forget little Bandit!
The Jetsons!
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 20:23 — MissVI could follow you til you got to PSS. Is this Battlestar Gallactica?
Old times
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 20:29 — shank56Gosh , I remember the name of this program but never watched. It was the fave of younger siblings- they called it Battlestar Galli-tacka--- ie a loser of a program.
JOnny Quest along the same time of Get Smart, Laugh In...maybe? Can't remember back that far. Good old days though.
More like F-Troop!
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 20:27 — DrActualFactualDon't look now, the guard in the fort's tower is currently in charge of bus transportation and reassignment--that explains it all.
Beg your pardon, but Colonel
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 20:32 — shank56Beg your pardon, but Colonel Klink is consulting alsowith Hogan and Company
Bus Logs
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 12:54 — MissVWouldn't it be more accurate for the bus drivers' daily travel log/mileage report to be shared with the student assignment folks?
let me know...
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 14:36 — standupnowLet me know if they're willing to do that ~ it's a great idea, but again, I won't hold my breath - too much common sense in your idea.
Better yet, how about if they share that info with the public?
Great idea!
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 14:23 — Eric_BGreat idea!