Wake is now jumping into using the EVAAS program.
As noted in today's article, administrators said they're moving to get passwords into the hands of principals and other school personnel. It's a change from when a school had to request access to EVAAS to be signed up.
Wake still has a long way to go to catch up with other school districts in terms of using the program, which is free of charge to districts.
William Sanders, senior director of the EVAAS K-12 division, said that as of 5 p.m. Monday, Wake had 10 district user accounts, 46 school administrator accounts and 87 school users accounts. He said most were recently assigned.
School board candidate John Tedesco said the new board will make sure that schools use the program. He said they should be using it to identify which students need the most help.
There was very little discussion of the SAS report itself during the presentation to the board. It may be a result of Wake now using the program more than before.
The closest it came to the report was when board member Anne McLaurin asked about SAS questioning the statistical adjustments for poverty level that Wake makes in its Effectiveness Index.
Sanders gave the example of a student from an impoverished home and another from an affluent home who have exactly the same academic history. He said adjusting for socioeconomic status would show that the impoverished child is doing better than he actually is performing.
"You’re not really treating the children as individuals," Sanders said. "You don’t unwittingly want to be setting different expectarions for students. That what’s happens when you adjust for socieocnoeconm status."
But supporters of the diversity policy took solace from Sanders agreeing with them that high-poverty schools tend to have newer, less effective teachers. School board member Lori Millberg said Wake's diversity policy has led to healthy schools and avoided having too many new teachers at higher poverty schools.
Sanders said Wake is to be commended if what Millberg is saying is right.
Comments
Worth it
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 18:27 — SDR256Whether the current's board's feet are held to the fire, or whether SAS and WSCA's efforts to bring the primitive and discriminatory formulas of WCPSS are ever recognized - - still, even still, it was worth all the effort. Knowing that WCPSS students will now have the POSSIBILITY of a fair shake, will have the truth shined on their actual achievement so that their problems and talents can be individually addressed - this will help make me breathe a little easier.
Thank you SAS and thank you (you know who you are) those who worked to make sure this information was brought to light.
Given wcpss is switching
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 08:13 — CaryCurmudgeonGiven wcpss is switching over to EVAAS, I am wondering whether they need to keep Mr. Holdzcom and some of his staff around. No need for them to maintain a program which will be dropped. And Mr. Holdzcom doesn't appear to be that interested in working with EVAAS since he skipped the meeting with SAS yesterday.
One would have to believe
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 08:19 — woodstockOne would have to believe walking papers are forthcoming.
Also, where is Dell? What is his perspective on this?
Great article, Mr. Hui!
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 07:50 — Eric_BGreat article, Mr. Hui! Thanks for covering this important story.
where are the scathing
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 07:02 — AngelaWwhere are the scathing articles a la NC State, Easley, UNC system, etc...about the fraudulent policies perpetrated on FALSE numbers used by WCPSS for years now?
WCPSS gets caught cheating on student Achievement.
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 05:53 — mike_caryTHis is amazing... WCPSS finally got caught using their own (costly) staff & software to "cook the books" on student acheivement for years - - now they embrace EVAAS which they could have used for FREE for years.
I hope the new School Board ADDs up all the money wasted on Wake's own fraudulent Achievement software and then roll some heads.
This proves that children were short-changed for years by the pro-busing zealots on the school board and those in Administration (being paid with our tax dollars).
It's not "about the children" is it???
It is a fraud perpertraited for a decade or more to make school Administrators look good so they could earn worthless accolades and awards from their peers.
And now with a new log on
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 07:24 — user12345And now with a new log on to EVAAS all the kids will transform to above average ... get real .... people don't care about the non-white, poor kids yesterday and won't care about them tomorrow no matter how many computer sign ons they get ... for the new team it is all about getting these undesirables out of their schools ... don't believe me ... improvement could have been made anytime in the last 10 years for poor, minority kids using the simple data already provided ... we know the schools and kids that need help without a computer program and did nothing so a new computer program won't make a difference... so, don't expect a new computer sign on to be nirvana.
You are right, the computer
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 08:12 — woodstockYou are right, the computer program is useless without the right people implementing the change the data demands. The status quo was not motivated to do that. Fortunately, we will soon have a new dynamic on the school board that will enact the positive change that is needed and address the academic needs of individual students.
"we will soon have a
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 09:01 — user12345"we will soon have a new dynamic on the school board '
Sorry the new folks don't look all that bright either .. a homemaker, Character teacher, politician ... they do not look like math wizards to me ... I hope you are right ...
There are plenty of folks in
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 08:58 — klanders65There are plenty of folks in the schools who have wanted decent data to use and could never get access to any. Plenty. There just wasn't any access to easy to use data. We could look up one student at a time, but to get a list of kids who need help or who should be challenged more was impossible. It was so frustrating. (You may have noticed my frustration...)
Teaching is hard work, and not high paying. A lot of us are here because we want the kids to succeed and we think we can help them. When you have to argue to advocate to get kids you know are bright into challenging classes, and there are no criteria, no standards, no easy to use data, it ends up being very difficult to get anyone but the upper income into the top track. And plenty of lower income kids get services they do not need. This is going to make a big difference.
I don't think most people realize. We are not switching systems for what is available at the school level. Nothing has been available at the school level except random spreadsheets of cryptic data. The Effectiveness Index was not a data system but rather a model used in house in E&R when they computed things they wanted to know. Then they would simply report their findings based on it.
Also....
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 10:34 — lferreriI also think we need some mechanism to ensure that the data is used. I completely believe that you and many other teachers want your students to enroll in the most challenging classes for which they qualify. However, there are many other people in the system who do not share this view. They are currently free to disregard the EOGs and, I believe, may do the same thing with the EVAAS data. I'm thinking that it might be necessary to put into place something like automatic qualification for eighth grade Algebra based on the student's EVAAS prediction. Or there could be a review of each school's placement percentage. (I understand from you and Eric that they vary widely from school to school.) Or maybe parents could be provided with the EVAAS probability along with their child's EOG score. I would have liked to have this information when my child was in school. I guess I am a cynic.
I think it is a little
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 10:57 — user12345I think it is a little simplier than you might think ... in a poor school there typically are not enough kids to fill an advanced class ... so they get put them in the regular class to be efficient ($/student) ... you won't see that in the "good" school where there is enough mass to have a few classes in every advanced class which can be expanded a little to accomidate an extra kid ... the answer is to offer the advanced classes in the poor schools even if there are only 5 or 10 kids qualified or bus them to a good school where the classes are offered ...
The bad school?
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 18:43 — klanders65What makes you think there typically are not enough kids in "the bad schools" (as opposed to what you are calling "the good schools"? I have taught in "the bad schools" and the kids are just as smart as in "the good schools."
And, in response to your other post,... how did the teacher miss the fact that your daughter belonged in top math? I thought the teachers could just tell. So, your wife had to advocate and get her in. If they couldn't tell your daughter could learn math, do you think they can tell that a Hispanic girl or a Black male can learn math? And if they couldn't tell, do you think the mothers of those children could manage to correct the situation? Don't bother to tell me they wouldn't care like you and your wife care. Fact of the matter is they may not try because they would know it would be an exercise in futility. Your wife knows the system because she is a teacher, and she can advocate for your overlooked daughter who seemed like a bottom track girl to her teacher. Other kids don't have someone to advocate for them. And we shouldn't have to advocate one at a time for these kids.
Our dealings were mainly
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 19:26 — user12345Our dealings were mainly with the counselor who moves kids to new classes ... it does not matter what any teacher thinks ... no seat no class ... ditto for what the the computer program says ... so, whether you are white, black or hispanic if you leave it up the to system the system will simply put your kid in an open seat ....
Needed my education!
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 18:56 — SDR256Fact of the matter is that I have needed every last skill, every bit of education - and it hasn't been trivial - EVERY DAMNED bit of it to come to terms with what was going on with WCPSS!
No one can blame the parents who just can't handle it, for whatever reason - too busy, not enough experience or education, or just not determined enough by nature. This beast has been big, tricky and exhausting to hunt down and trap. Not for the faint of heart, the unskilled or the unprepared, this WCPSS mess that's grown over the years. So, how about another to-do for the BoE : EASE OF USE.
We are not talking about
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 11:16 — jenmanWe are not talking about High School, which is what your examples are usually about. It's not like they need to bring in a separate teacher in middle school to teach Advanced 6th Grade Math vs regular 6th Grade Math.
Like klanders said, the tracking we are talking about is not being chosen by the kids or their families. Its being done by the staff and its happening at least as early as 6th grade. There most certainly are enough kids who qualify for Advanced 6th Grade Math (which leads to Algebra I in 8th grade) in even the poorest of schools.
Ok ... I can only say that
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 11:45 — user12345Ok ... I can only say that my daugher was not put in Algebra in 8th grade because the class was too full and it was not until my wife complained that they found another seat in the class. I got the impression that it was all about balancing classes ... I don't think the thought of creating another Algebra class and hiring another teacher crossed their mind ... it was as if they have a fixed headcount of teachers and the students are molded to fill them .... if you have mostly high wealth kids, the kids get molded to advanced classes and if you have mostly low wealth kids the classed get molded to remedial classes is my impression of what we experienced ...
"There most certainly are enough kids who qualify for Advanced 6th Grade Math (which leads to Algebra I in 8th grade) in even the poorest of schools. "
So, if say 10 kids qualify ... do they hire a teacher and offer the class for the 10? ... with the overcrowding now due to the budget, it does not seem likely ...
I am sure there are much
Thu, 10/22/2009 - 09:54 — NWRaleighMomI am sure there are much more than 5-10 kids qualified for Advanced 6th Grade Math even in the poorest of schools. AG kids come from all backgrounds (my children are in 45% F&R school). WCPSS must provide all the children with the opportunities to take advanced classes even if it means to limit the number of magnet offerins to spread the money around.
If there is not enough interest in a certain school to justify an advanced course (Statistics, Latin or Chinese, for instance) district should offer a transfer (or opportunity to take a course) to another HS. It is a standard practice in other school districts, some even offer transportation to get students from one school to another during the day.
My daughter's counselor told
Thu, 10/22/2009 - 10:37 — user12345My daughter's counselor told her to buy a car and drive across town if she really wanted the courses since only eight kids signed up at her school.... transfer might work for some ...
So, it is officially allowed
Thu, 10/22/2009 - 10:51 — NWRaleighMomSo, it is officially allowed to take a course in another school? I know transfer was denied in a case of a student who wanted to take an advanced foreign language course.
yea ... it seems like these
Thu, 10/22/2009 - 12:00 — user12345yea ... it seems like these things might be a little inconsistant ... I think full transfer is a big deal but it seemed that simply going to another campus to take a class was not a concern ... plus advanced classes typically have small enrollments and another seat is usually available ....the problem is transportation and time ...e.g. more that 5 min between classes to get across town ... also, I am guessing they are a little cautious about families using different hardships (sibling in one school, ROTC, language offering, etc.) to move from school to school since it could cause even more crowding / under utilization.
The problem is that the
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 11:06 — shearertwThe problem is that the curriculum is dumbed down for everybody. What we're calling "advanced" classes should be the normal class and the current "normal" class should be "remedial". I think the "remedial" classes should only be offered if there is enough kids to fill it (5 - 10 should be enough) and if not, bus them to a school that has it.
hmmm... that is an
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 11:14 — user12345hmmm... that is an interesting idea ... invert the system ... instead of going for the lowest $/student and making sure every class is completely filled (buns on seats) with remedial classes probably the easiest and cheapest to provide and fill first ... start by filling the advanced class first and move down from there such that you are challenging a few that won't make it compared to not challenging a few who could make it ... sounds good ... so, why don't they simply make Algebra a standard class in 8th grade? Some will fail and have to take it again in 9th when they would have taken it anyway .... would just reinforce the concepts taking it twice ...
You're missing the point.
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 11:43 — Eric_BYou're missing the point. In middle school and high school, EVAAS can be used with high accuracy to predict how many students in each school should be placed in each level of math. It can do this a year or more in advance. Armed with this data, principals can plan for the teachers and classes to accommodate the students and not vice versa. They can be sure that kids will have the classes that they need.
If EVAAS is used to do this in a data-driven model instead of ad-hoc as it is done now, low income student enrollment in advanced classes will go up and schools like Athens Drive will not suffer from a dearth of advanced classes. Once the institutionalized expectation of lower performance for low income students is removed, we can move past prejudices and preconceptions and do what is right for each child.
I am surprised that you need
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 09:05 — user12345I am surprised that you need a computer program to identify which of your students need help ... my wife can typically call to one or students which ones will pass and won't pass the EOC and the school takes the one she idenitifies at-risk and does intense tutoring ... this has gone for years without any computer program ...
I am not saying that I need
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 09:16 — klanders65I am not saying that I need data. Of course I can tell everything without it. But look at that Hodge Road report. Without data, they mistakenly thought that their Level III and IV low income kids needed remedial tutoring and gave it to them for a year (at least.). Some people need data. I am like your wife. I don't need it. But other people are not as gifted as us two and they make huge mistakes because they don't use data. Like, for example, they track 60% of the low income Algebra Ready kids into the bottom math track. These folks need data.
Don't you think that this is
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 09:33 — user12345Don't you think that this is subtle discrimination maybe institutional racism? Also, schools where most of the kids are poor / minority like Hodge Road which is only 12% White and mostly Hispanic may not value advanced maths.. they don't see themselves ever going to college and probably don't intend to complete all 12 years ...we know Hispanics don't value education beyond MS school (see my other post on reasons Hispanics don't choose to graduate) so Algebra is probably not valued in this school ... a new computer program won't change that ...
L'user,I'll be you and
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 10:04 — shearertwL'user,
I'll be you and your wife can tell who will and will not succeed based solely on the color of their skin, right? You don't need no stinking computer program...
This is a little like the black voters in Kinston, NC not knowing who to vote for unless the word "Democrat" is next to their name on the ballot.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/55818
Racism just comes too natural for some of you libs...
Where do you get the idea
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 10:20 — user12345Where do you get the idea we determine success by skin color? ... remember Todd, I live in a mixed neighborhood and you live in mostly White one which may be why you can not see these things ... the "Black are too stupid to know who to vote for" comment proves my point ....My wife can sort out the kids by their test scores, homework and attendance ... a computer program won't make any difference to her determination of who needs more tutoring ...
Not sure how you know the
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 10:53 — shearertwNot sure how you know the make up of my neighborhood....
I was pointing out your comment that you seem to know the goals and long-term outcomes of Hispanics, apparrantly just by them being Hispanic.
Also, the "Black too stupid" view point is coming from your buddy Eric Holder and the Obama administration. That's certainly not my view point.
You've Pushed by Buttons
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 09:40 — klanders65Okay, buddy. You've pushed my buttons now. Come on, Trailer Park Girl. Let's get him.
You must not realize that these kids do not enroll themselves in math tracks. They have no say what-so-ever. They didn't have any say in whether or not they got remedial tutoring.
I don't think Black people value leadership because they never chose to be president until now. They don't see themselves as leaders so they avoid opportunities. (That is the same logic, right? So, you probably believe that.)
I could insult your intelligence but the teacher in me holds me back.
:-) Too busy to post right now but will respond tonight
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 13:25 — TrailerParkGirlI would never dream of knocking user's and chaboard's heads together to try to get some sense into them. OK, maybe I would. I'm not a teacher so have nothing to hold me back :-)
"You must not realize that
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 10:50 — user12345"You must not realize that these kids do not enroll themselves in math tracks. They have no say what-so-ever. They didn't have any say in whether or not they got remedial tutoring."
I do ... my experience is that they plan for each class and than try to fill the seats ... so, if a school has only a few kids ready for Algebra but not enough to fill the seats they don't get it .... warning: you gloden node parents won't experience that ...
I don't know about Blacks but the artcle I read on Hispanics (back to Hodge Rd) is that culturally MS is the highest level of education their culture aspires to (same and every other family member achieved), their parents need them to work or care for kids, they have little chance of going to college, etc. so you are not going to see their parent in fighting for Algebra like my wife had to do...
So, what is the make up of your kids ... my wife's classes are mostly minority and poor .... so I feel I know something about this ... maybe only from a few schools but I know it first hand ... btw, she could use a TA and not a computer sign on ....
We'll never see that headline
Wed, 10/21/2009 - 05:59 — loriacRIght - and not a peep anywhere about how the current WCPSS program institutionalized lowered expectations for ED kids for YEARS. It's convenient that the current board accepted this with no hard questions, so they can claim to have implemented it.
We'll never see that headline in the newspaper.