Whether or not you agree with the review, it looks like the Wake County school board majority's policies will face tough scrutiny from an accreditation organization.
As noted in today's article, AdvancED gets dozens of complaints a year about school districts but only investigates a handful. Mark Elgart, the president and CEO of AdvancED, said they felt the concerns raised in the state NAACP complaint and in informal complaints later filed by other critics of the board majority warranted an in-depth review of Wake.
"It is rare, and it is serious,' Elgart said of the pending Wake review.
The review could result in Wake's 24 high schools losing the accreditation that makes it easier for students to get scholarships and loans and be admitted into colleges and military programs
What could make the special review controversial, is that one of the things that AdvancED will consider is whether the board's actions have been in the best interests of the students and the community. As the past eight months have shown, there's a lot of debate about what constitutes the best interests of the students and community.
Elgart said they'll also review whether Wake has followed its own policies and procedures.
The fact that AdvancED's review will be so sweeping is raising questions from members of the board majority and their supporters. You've got the team looking into the student assignment policy changes, ending mandatory year-round schools, abandoning Forest Ridge High for Rolesville High, hiring attorney Thomas Farr, making the Civitas Institute a board trainer and so on.
"The level of detail they're asking for is inappropriate," said school board member John Tedesco. "It's a level of detail they don't ask for in other districts."
Tedesco said he supports cooperating for now with AdvancED. But he'd support not working with AdvancED if the review requires so much time that it distracts the board and the staff from doing their duties.
A failure to cooperate wouldn't help Wake's chances of keeping accreditation. But Tedesco doesn't think losing accreditation would have as negative an impact on students as some fear.
Yevonne Brannon, chairwoman of the Great Schools in Wake Coalition, said the board majority only has themselves to blame for the review.
"It's a sad day for our school system to go from being a nationally recognized school system to one being reviewed for not using the best educational practices," Brannon said.
Brannon said the board majority should see the review as a warning to rescind its decisions on the diversity policy and other issues. She said the board majority needs to stop making "politically and ideologically oriented" decisions.
Comments
Superintendent Search
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 08:55 — HereWeGoI wonder waht effect this audit is going to have on the superintendent search?
I think it will help attract
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 09:06 — woodstockI think it will help attract more conservative leaning candidates who would welcome the opportunity to go up against an extreme left organization like AdvancED as those type of organizations are more and more becoming a barrier to much needed education reform. That is good new for folks like me, but you may not like it.
"Rare" and "serious?" LOL!
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 06:59 — woodstock"Rare" and "serious?" LOL! Try "baseless" and "politically motivated." AdvancED has sealed their fate; it will not end well for them as their credibily will be lost in this process. Heads will roll at this extreme left organization... this, I guarantee. So it goes; it's what happens when emotions, not intellect, rules one's judgement.
See even woodstock says
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 08:51 — user12345See even woodstock says "bring it on" ... live without fear
What's to fear? I say don't
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 09:20 — woodstockWhat's to fear? I say don't even take the time to participate in the witch hunt ...er, I mean... "investigation." WCPSS does not need AdvancED, AdvancED needs WCPSS.
According to the article,
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 20:40 — HJ2ss2According to the article, AdvancED only investigates a handful of complaints. I wonder how many of those complaints come from the leader of a NAACP chapter? I also wonder, given the high profile of NAACP involvement in this issue, if AdvancED itself would have been investigated by the NAACP if it did not agree to scrutinize the Wake County Decision?
As for Wake County not following it's own policy, I was informed by an attorney that Wake County has a track record (under the previous administration) of not following their own policy.....but it's not a legal issue if the school system chooses not to follow its own policy.
we pay money for this?
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 18:31 — loriacI just read the AdvancED letter to Dr. Hargens: "... a special review team needs to conduct a visit to determine whether the actions of the WCPSS are negatively impacting the ability of the schools in Wake County to meet the AdvancED Standards and Policies for accreditation." ????
Which standards and policies are they worried about, exactly? They have asked for the world, including the seat voucher system for school board meetings? You have got to be kidding me. This is a joke.
Who do these people answer to? We pay money for this?
Where were they when the SAS report was hidden? (you know, the one that showed minorities are significantly underrepresented in 8th grade algebra, thus severely limiting their future options, including.... college, which is what this accreditation is all about) I am beside myself. We pay money for this? .....
An informed retort.
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 19:32 — concernededucatorA wise sage once told me, “when you come across a pot of crazy, stop stirring.” That is assuredly sound advice, but the level of sheer ignorance and invective on this blog compels me to advance this argument, and the undisputed facts a step further. Thus, here are some relevant examples close to home. Cary Academy is accredited by SACS, so too is Ravenscroft. Since Chairman Margiotta, a member of the Board of Directors of the Thales Academy is so cavalier and dismissive about the upcoming SACS review, as is Mr. Tedesco, perhaps it is that they hope that one day Wake County can be accredited by the future Luddy Institute of Technology (LIT). Make no mistake, it is they and their foolhardy policies who have brought to Wake County this impending educational crisis; even though they still admit quite freely, (after holding the Board hostage for eight months), that they still do not have a plan to replace what they are so very eager to destroy. Their reckless tenacity dedicated to tearing down a highly-respected school system, without any shred of a substantive alternative, howls for systematic scrutiny by an objective third party. Thus (and in spite of comments to the contrary), those opposed to the gang of five welcome the visit from SACS and we applaud the work to bring to their attention this embarrassing fiasco. Though unfortunate, it comes not at the expense of our students, but on behalf of our students-all of our students. Now my mother always said that if you can't say something nice about someone, at least say God bless them. Therefore I wish the Luddy followers well in their endeavor on "American Exceptionalism."
Obviously Mr. Barber gave
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 19:38 — loriacObviously Mr. Barber gave them a list of what to ask for - this is not a result of 'foolhardy policies'. If that were the case, they should have been on the next plane down when Mr. Burns withheld the SAS report. There's no crisis except the one manufactured by Ms. Brannon and Mr. Barber.
Yvonne Brannen says we have
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 19:27 — CaryCurmudgeonYvonne Brannen says we have one of the "Top school districts in the country." They should just talk to her and save themselves the trip.
FYI
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 17:56 — concernededucatorJust some relevant facts for those still skeptical about what SACS is.
First, the US military does not recognize degrees from non-accredited universities. Secondly, thirteen states have laws that significantly restrict or forbid the granting of degrees from non-accredited institutions of higher learning: Illinois, Indiana, Maine, Michigan, Missouri, Nevada, New Jersey, North Dakota, South Dakota, Oregon, Texas, Virginia, and Washington State. Mississippi, Wyoming and Florida have laws that limit the recognition of degrees from non-accredited institutions. California is the ONLY state that has no laws regulating non-accredited colleges/universities. However, California's public university system will not accept students from non-accredited high schools. This is a very politically diverse group of states by any realistic appraisal, in fact there is far more red than blue represented in this group.
Given the probity of the accreditation process and the universal acceptance of their objective methodology of validating the academic integrity of schools/colleges/universities, it seems extremely unlikely, in fact patently absurd, that SACS/AdvancED would risk their long-standing national reputation to investigate Wake County on the basis of mere spite, or the petition of one man. Having been employed by two prominent universities in my career, I can attest to the seriousness of purpose with which institutions of higher learning approach accreditation reviews.
"'We're still the 18th
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 16:14 — xmarkspot62"'We're still the 18th largest school system," Tedesco said. "I don't think colleges make decisions based on a school's accreditation.'
"But Stephen Farmer, director of undergraduate admissions at UNC-Chapel Hill, disagreed. Many North Carolina universities recommend that applicants come from accredited high schools, he said. Those who don't force admission officers to work harder to determine whether they're academically qualified."
Tedesco is either hopelessly naive or incredibly arrogant to think that accreditation has no bearing on college entry; so glad that the N&O had university admissions experts weigh in on this.
eh...
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 16:22 — Bob_SconceTedesco's right on that, at least with regard to UNC. What, is UNC going to say "Hey. No. Wait a minute. WCPSS' accreditation was pulled last year. All their schools must be lousy. We need to really look into every Wake applicant." Don't think so. That extra work is really necessary for home-schooled kids.
Colleges have general familiarity with the quality of schools, especially schools that send them a lot of applicants year after year. UNC knows, for example, that on average a kid with a degree from WCPSS is more likely to do well than a kid from a Detroit school. The accreditation of WCPSS doesn't matter there.
The accreditation might matter on the edges -- a WCPSS kid applying to say, E. Oregon University might get a question about accreditation. But, even that's unlikely -- I wasn't aware that most colleges asked about your high school's accreditation, and I suspect they don't go looking either.
That said, it certainly wasn't the most prudent thing for him to say.
A volte-face?
Fri, 08/20/2010 - 08:41 — concernededucator"Colleges have general familiarity with the quality of schools." Bob, I appreciate that you recognize the strength of Wake County's public schools and their highly respected regional (and national reputation). I do not know when you came to our side, but we welcome you.
?
Fri, 08/20/2010 - 09:50 — Bob_SconceI see that you're trying to be clever by taking the first half of that sentence out of context. It was a general statement about all schools -- if you're UNC, you have a good understanding of the quality of Wake, Durham, CMS, Forsythe and Halifax schools. That doesn't mean that the quality is necessarily *good*, only that there is some degree of quality in each of those districts, and the UNC admissions office knows about what that quality level is.
I agree that for affluent college-bound students, Wake County, on average, does better than the typical North Carolina school district. But, for other students, not so much.
Recognize, though, that being among the best North Carolina schools is roughly akin to being the best middle school basketball team in a world dominated by the NBA. When the folks at Harvard and Stanford start paying attention to Wake's quality, then we can talk.
colleges
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 17:43 — turnerk1There are scholarships, however, that do require the high schools to be accredited and people do check as a beginning of their due diligence. At the college level accreditation is very important and this bleeds down to the high schools as well during the application process. I also think whether a school was accredited would make a difference for those students who are looking to study outside the US. And, I don't you'd have to go nearly as far as E. Oregon University to find college admissions officers who aren't familiar with Wake County Schools either. The high school's accreditation is part of the information that is sent to college admissions offices - they don't have to look for it. It's part of the standard information, so if it is missing it would be very obvious.
?
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 18:20 — Bob_SconceSent by who?
E. Oregon was an example. Clearly, losing accreditation would be a bad thing. But, it's not the end of the world either.
I browsed the report that they did on the Georgia County where they pulled the accreditation, and that was orders of magnitude more dysfunctional than anything we've seen here. (See http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/ajc/pdf/sacsreport.pdf ). Among other things, they had board members that were asking staff to ignore policies, falsifying attendance records, board members who didn't meet residency requirements, publicly abusing staff and employees, significant conflicts of interest (one of the board members was head of the teachers union and voted on pay raises for union members; another voted on his wife's compensation), apparant reimbursement fraud, etc....
Given that and the similarities to what you hear from the NAACP and some of the more shrill majority opponents, I can see how Advance-Ed could have their interest piqued. However, as long as they honestly look at the district's situation (without a political interest), I don't think there's an actual issue.
accreditation
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 17:14 — turnerk1High school and college transcripts have who accredits that institution on them.
I do agree with you Bob, that it is unlikely they will pull our accreditation as that is an extremely serious thing that is only done very rarely.
I cannot imagine WCPSS
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 18:05 — zandeI cannot imagine WCPSS having SACS acceditation pulled either. I doubt it would happen. Nevertheless, there is no way to see this investigation as a positive thing for the system.
Dysfunctional & BOE
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 20:18 — Apexcitizen1Bob,
You made my day!
I think everyone can agree that the current BOE is one dysfunctional bunch. Certainly would have to agree that their not at the top of the disfunctionality food chain yet but they seem to be succeeding at moving up the chain without much effort. Ideology seems to be driving this board more that anything else at this point in time. Its probably always been that way but just seems to be magnified by the order that the BOE conducts the business of the BOE. My personal preference for the BOE to expand in size considerably to dilute the absolute power of any particular member. The political orgs on both sides see the power influence that individual board members can have and they have naturally seized upon that power to promote their agendas.
So...
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 17:39 — Bob_SconceThis is the first time in the board's history that there's been a fundamental clash in beliefs among board members. In that situation, disagreement and a lack of consensus is normal, and should be expected. Heck, it's designed into the structure of the election process -- we have staggered elections, to keep the entire board from being swapped out in one move; we have districts because we anticipate that people in different areas will have different views; we have elections because we want voters to be able to change the direction the board is going.
Personally, I hope that the Advance-Ed folks recognize this. Yeah, there may be some political fighting. And, yeah, the new majority was pretty hard-core when they booted Hill on the first day and set a new agenda. But, that's how it works BY DESIGN. Elected bodies are not supposed to be all sweetness-and-light all of the time.
Staff level issues
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 19:17 — bluedaisyIssues will come up from staff level. Rumors are running rampant from Central Office - no I'm not going to present what I've heard here. Could we possibly have had board members instructing staff to ignore policies? We, from the outside, have no idea what is really going on between board and staff.
and after your rumor and
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 20:20 — starsonoursand after your rumor and scuttle butt post we still do not what (if anything) is going on. If things you "don't" mention were going on, it would be on the cover of the N&O the next day. Do you thing a staff member would not run to a minority member to tell them a majority member asked them to do something wrong? Please stop with the rumors.
ahh
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 20:07 — Bob_SconceSecret information and innuendo.
I have hears rumors that the new board members have been trying to help parents handle school issues, to the annoyance of some staff. Ex: when the 4th grade pod at WES was infested with mice, Kevin Hill didn't respond to snails about it, but Debra Goldman did. Few days later, no mice.
You seem in the know on this
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 18:14 — CaryCurmudgeonYou seem in the know on this subject. Other than the Clayton schools mentioned here, do you know of any other schools anywhere in the US that are not accredited by SACS or their regional equivalent?
What Are They Thinking
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:40 — RMC10(Source Credit News and Observer staff) "Two years ago, the 50,000-student Clayton County school system in suburban Atlanta became the first district in the country to lose accreditation in nearly 40 years.
Families subsequently bolted to other districts, the school system lost funding, real estate values dropped, and the state's Republican governor removed four of seven school board members.
"People were scared to death," said James E. Bostic Jr., a member of the State Board of Education in Georgia. "They lost something like 3,300 kids. It was a killer."
What total irresponsibility for Rev. Barber and the NAACP to bring the possibility of that kind of loss. Does Rev. Barber not see how Wake County and NC losing that accreditation will directly affect the educational opportunities for so many AfAm students also in geting funding and grants. What were they thinking? Every person and business in this County and larger NC can be affected adversely by this not to mention every student. Bad Bad Decision - who accredits the NAACP for its actions -
I was thinking along the
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 18:19 — DrActualFactualI was thinking along the same lines. If the accredation is lost it could drive droves of parents away to private, homeschool, out of county-or out of state to other schools. With the cost of college tuition without scholarships or grants it could make parents of older childrent just leave in disgust and necessity. This is certainly a case where the end justifies the means type of thinking may backfire-but it would be bad for all students--don't know what the NAACP is thinking.
This is certainly a case
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 18:27 — CaryCurmudgeonThis is certainly a case where the end justifies the means type of thinking may backfire-but it would be bad for all students--don't know what the NAACP is thinking.
I agree. I'd sure like the media to ask them to explain themselves, and explain how this benefits students.
Why the concern? ... people
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 21:54 — user12345Why the concern? ... people complain all the time ... it is not like the NAACP had one complaint a life time and used int on Wake ... if there was no merit to the complaint it would have be ignored ... obviously, the new board is doing something to that needs investigation ... and once the findings are in they can make changes to address the deficiencies. You should not blame the NAACP for pointing out problems. It is like being mad at a safety inspector who finds something ... wouldn't you want it known and fixed?
Why The Concern - Are You Kidding??
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 07:16 — RMC10User 1234 - I've been reading your posts for a long time as have you - you don't see a need for concern. Do you not understand the political posturing from this local NAACP group has gone beyond disrupting meetings to "attempting to bring down the whole school system" with this threat. And for Rev. Barber, it appears to have become personal for him. So personal he's willing to sacrifice the benefits to AFAM that can also be lost, but his victory will be bragging rights to bringing down 6 people. And, they have they think they have the power to get that accreditation reviewed and removed, just because they are the NAACP. And because they think they can just "gin" up the merit of the case - because they have set the tone in their Complaints already. Because everytime the NAACP just says something is true, everyone seem afraid to step up and take them on - all because they will make it a racial issue, and there seems to be a fear of any hint of that old word. Already this story has made too much national news - I certainly don't want WCPSS to have that much media attention - again, just makes Raleigh NC look like Mayberry not like the progressive thinkers and intellect that lives here. We should all be concerned - a trumped up complaint and trumped up story wouldn't be the first time things have been decided on the wrong side of right.
Do you not understand the
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 09:18 — user12345Do you not understand the political posturing from this local NAACP group has gone beyond disrupting meetings to "attempting to bring down the whole school system" with this threat.
I do not see the WCPSS in
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 08:29 — willynillyI do not see the WCPSS in the light as badly as the NAACP, but I am fully aware of their practices of attacking teachers for not being a part of team (meaning they just do whatever they are told without question and NEVER EVER question a principal). Now for me, I have to say, that it's nice to see the WCPSS come under this type of scrutiny. Think about it, it's not just the board that is under investigation. They will be digging into Central Office as well. Hmmmmmmmm-------maybe I need to send this group something they will enjoy reading.
Questioning certain
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 21:02 — HJ2ss2Questioning certain principals in Wake is interpreted as a "power struggle". Which, as I was told, " you can never win". (I had no intention of winning a power struggle since I was not involved in one). Some principals in the county are too blinded by their own ambition to tell the difference between a "power struggle" and an employee who is trying to do what is best for the students rather than what is best for the principal's career.
I wonder if the "investigators" would be interested in some information regarding the cover-ups that occurred to enable some to move to Central Office?
:-) Paper trails are always
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 21:54 — willynilly:-) Paper trails are always interesting I am finding.
I wonder if the
Fri, 08/20/2010 - 07:12 — HJ2ss2I wonder if the investigators will have the authority to request a judge to share the information in sealed court documents? Hiding information regarding behavior that would result in otherm staffs' dismissal might also be an interesting read.
Heh...
Fri, 08/20/2010 - 07:33 — Bob_SconceThey have the authority to ask. Depending on why they're sealed, it may be that the district can ask for them to be sealed and they could pressure the district to ask. But, seems unlikely.
I suspect, though, that they're investigating because they are disturbed by the division on the board and won't get into old matters.
Thanks. I believe records
Fri, 08/20/2010 - 11:24 — HJ2ss2Thanks.
I believe records in Child Protective Service cases are always sealed.
Policies that have NOT been
Thu, 08/19/2010 - 05:42 — willynillyPolicies that have NOT been fully implemented are being investigated. Unlike the Ga case where things had already been done this entity is coming in to see if what is TRYING to be implemented will MAYBE do harm to students. I will go out on a limb here and say that in a few weeks something is going to surface that there is something else behind this AdvanceEd mess. I won't speculate on what it is, I'll wait and see.
No, it is like hiring a
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 22:16 — CaryCurmudgeonNo, it is like hiring a safety inspector to come in and decide whether those paisley curtains work will with the plaid couch, knowing that if he gives you a bad review your kids will be out on the street. If I had any faith that this wasn't political I wouldn't care about the inspection. I don't.
Very interesting that this
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 12:00 — willynillyVery interesting that this article is available, a great resource. Is there a link to this? I wonder....what were the conditions? Did etst scores plumet there? Was their a change in policy? How severe does something have to be? OR.....does this group need some attention? As a fellow teacher says, is this attention seeking behavior?
Click here for that article.
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 12:07 — KeungHui (author)Click here for that article.
Thanks Keung.....so this
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 12:36 — willynillyThanks Keung.....so this entity took action in Ga because a school system was screwed up because Board Members were saying stuff about one another? OMG The WCPSS has kids making into college. The BLOG here touts the excellence of the schools, teachers, etc etc. There seems to be no quibble about anything academically with the accpetion that voters felt there could be better scores acheived by doing something differently.....in the simple form here IMHO it seems that this entity is investigating the WCPSS NOT for what it has done (which was the case in Ga) but what the result MIGHT be for what it is doing (MINORITY REPORT movie rings a bell here). Again, there is no real research that the old (or the new policies in fairness) will do anything to do harm to the status quo. The only thing we have is that VOTERS were not satisfied with the status quo and they voted for a change. Now it seems that a group of people (large or small is immaterial) can circumvent a very old tradition in this country supposedly guaranteed.....one person, one vote. So is there another entity that can investigate this entity when/if a group does not like the end result of said entities investigation. It's no dag-on wonder people are laughing at Wake County and leaving (or not coming). I see the dog chasing it's tail right now.
Informal complaints
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:34 — Bob_SconceKeung --
Any clue who raised 'informal complaints'? Happen to know if Del Burns was among them? It's odd that they didn't ask about the circumstances surrounding his resignation/being put on administrative leave.
They didn't say. That's the
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:56 — KeungHui (author)They didn't say. That's the problem with dealing with private groups that don't have to release the info. Since those other complaints were not formal writen complaints, they weren't forwarded to Wake. The Wake response in April only dealt with the specific charges in the NAACP complaint. AdvancED not only decided that the response was insufficient but greatly expanded the scope of the review.
Looks like the chickens are
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 10:42 — HereWeGoLooks like the chickens are coming home to roost.
http://www.theteachersadvocat
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 10:32 — AngelaWhttp://www.theteachersadvocate.com/id137.html
Elgart is apparently used to people falling all over themselves when he enters a room. He apparently has become accustomed to having his political posterior inordinately kissed.
see also;
http://www.nekia.org/files/web_AdvancED_Testimony_to_Senate_HELP_Cmte.pdf
Is there an agency that
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:55 — NWRaleighMomIs there an agency that oversees AdvancED?
not sure
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 12:06 — AngelaWnot sure yet....but
http://www.advanc-ed.org/about_us/organization/history/founding_organizations/?
http://www.advanc-ed.org/about_us/people/board_of_trustees/?
http://www.advanc-ed.org/about_us/state_offices/northcarolina/state_council/?
Yevonne Brannon, chairwoman
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 10:03 — shearertwYevonne Brannon, chairwoman of the Great Schools of Wake Coalition said the board majority only has themselves to blame for the review.
No, they only have Rev Barbar and his thugs in tow to blame....
"It's a sad day for our school system to go from being a nationally recognized school system to one being reviewed for not using the best educational practices," Brannon said.
Again, WCPSS is not being reviewed because they're "not using the best education practices", they are ONLY being reviewed because of the complaints made by the granddaddy of grandstanding, Rev Barbar (and thugs in tow)...
Brannon said the board majority should see the review as a warning to rescind its decisions on the diversity policy and other issues. She said the board majority needs to stop making "politically and ideologically oriented" decisions.
OK, so the BOE should stop doing what the voters of WC elected them to do or the NAACP will use all of their thug friends such as Mark Elgart to threaten them. Wow, now all of this is truly educational.
When you guys have a chance, Google Mark Elgart and Clayton County Public Schools (of Georgia). Clearly things are only going to get more interesting from here.
blaming NAACP
Wed, 08/18/2010 - 13:22 — turnerk1Blaming the NAACP for AdvanED doing an audit is like my children blaming me when I discipline them for breaking one of our family's rules.