WakeEd

The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? Will the new student assignment plan be a hybrid of the last two models or primarily be a return to the use of busing for diversity? Who will replace Tony Tata as the new superintendent of the state's largest district? How will voters react to a likely request in 2013 to borrow potentially more than $1 billion to build and renovate schools?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

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Wake County Superintendent Tony Tata to present plan to "transform" school transportation

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Much of today's press conference from Wake County Superintendent Tony Tata was about his first year on the job and whether he's worried about his future given the change in the school board's majority.

That's been covered in other blog posts and stories so I'll focus on what Tata said today are plans to "transform" school transportation. It will be presented to the school board next Tuesday.

Tata didn't give any details today, saying that he wanted to discuss it with the school board first.

Tata said it won't affect the assignment plan for the upcoming school year, pointing to how families will get transportation to their choices. But in the absence of any details, it's uncertain what that would mean.

1347253414 Wake County Superintendent Tony Tata to present plan to "transform" school transportation The News and Observer Copyright 2011 The News and Observer . All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

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polite

I'd be happy if Tata could get people at transportation to answer their phones, and be polite when they do manage to talk to anyone. I've had kids in the system for 13 years, and transportation has been a nightmare to deal with.

Will need transformation given longer commutes

Bus service will need transformation now that we will be bused farther than our closest school given feeder patterns.  (I already expect to hear that you have choice -- but the fact is that at many high schools there are only 5 or seats available.  doesn't sound like true choice to me.).  Also buses will need to support children going to multiple schools.  This is whole choice experiment is going to result in increased costs!!

So Kevin isn't helping you out

is he?

Surprise.

So it is going to affect...

assignment in future years? Hopefully we will see some details before it is implemented. And the wussy school board goes along with it.

Wussy school board?

This is your board buddy. What happened, no longer supportive of the Fibbers?

You're going to have a hard time for the next several years with that attitude bpoo. As you say, take a breath ...

Logistics

Tata appears to be working hard and has been successful so far. He has pleasantly surprised almost everyone I talk to. Running a school system  or any organization means constantly looking at improvements in a preventive way instaed of always being reactionary. Tata seems be up to the challenge.

Bob,  I appreciate you staying involved with the comversation within this blog. You, Jennifer, Shila, Neil, and a few others (who do not use their name) really keep the conversation informative, help keep the perspectives broad, and make time spent reading about the issues meaningful. It helps keep the issues and info. in-check.

100% efficiency rating

Wake Co Transportation has a 100% efficiency rating from the state.  It will be interesting to see how Tata improves upon 100%.  Easier to do when you have control over where each child goes to school.   

What have you ever seen the

What have you ever seen the State do that was 100% efficient?

You can't be serious.

You can't be serious. Average ridership per bus is about 25 students. You think that's efficient???

Reading is fundamental

Jef and Stars, did I say it was 100% efficient?  No, I typed the state gave Wake a 100% efficiency rating.  Have you read the report as to why?  I have.

But you do put an interesting point across - since half full buses bother you, and you equate fuller buses with more efficiency,  what are your thoughts on adopting a policy in which the bus does not stop picking up kids in the morning until it is full.  (Nevermind in some areas of the county, that would take the bus being on the road for 3+ hours) To do that we need a student assignment plan that assigned every child in a certain area to just one school.  Woops.  There goes choice.

What was it you wanted?  a choice plan, or an efficient bus plan?  My point is I am interested to see how you can transform a 100% efficiency transportation model while implementing a choice plan.  Tata shut the R's up for a while - he may can pull this off too. I'm interested in the logistics and duality of this one - coming thru with a high percentage of parents getting their first choice and a more efficient way of getting them there.

So now we're going to parse

So now we're going to parse words? Wake has a 100% efficiency rating, but it is not 100% efficient? I guess it depends on the meaning of the word "is."

I've posted dozens of times on this blog about optimization of bus routes, and the need to increase ridership on individual bus routes. While there are some remote areas of the county where it would be impractical to run a bus route at capacity, that is not the norm. I've spoken with bus drivers who describe running an afternoon bus route in Raleigh and Cary where there are just 6 students on a bus designed to accomodate 66 students. There are hundreds of inefficient routes in WCPSS.

A couple of years ago, Charlotte optimized their bus routes. They put GPS devices on every bus. They optimized the routes for time and bus capacity. They shaved $6 million off their transportation budget while increasing their over ridership.

With the new assignment system, it makes sense to run bus routes that serve more than 1 school. This will require the bell schedules to be staggered. Because of the emphasis on proximity, and the fact that many of our schools (especially ES) are close to other schools, it's likely that we can significantly increase ridership, while minimizing any additional time that children spend on buses. I'm pretty sure that is what Tata is talking about.

Already a 3 tier bell schedule

How many tiers do you want, in the name of efficiency Jeffo? Kids already get out as late as 3:45. Transportation tried to start a fourth tier a few years ago - the board nixed that.  Bell schedules for new schools are first run past transportation, to see how the school can be best served... efficiently.  I don't think you are giving the system credit enough for what they've managed to pull off in the name of efficiency already.  And, we spend less on transportation than Charlotte, with more riders to boot.  However, I'm sure there can be more tweaking to be even better, but will that require bell schedules to be changed?  AFTER parents have made their ranking of choices?  Yes, there are parents that looked at the bell schedules of schools and took that into account before ranking their choices. If Tata is going to change bell schedules for next year, expect to hear some screaming - in the name of parent schedule efficiency.

...

I can't believe that you are on here complaining that Tata might alter bell schedules "AFTER parents have made their ranking of choices" when your friends on the Board are talking about altering components of the whole plan "AFTER parents have made their ranking of choices".

BTW, do you have a link to that report?

Sorry Burns

I do not.  I remember reading it on paper in the board room when it was presented to the board.  And, just for you, I searched NCDPI for it, and could not find it. The efficiency rating has been mentioned by transportation staff multiple times in board meetings.

In case you missed it - the student assignment plan was not on the agenda after the information session the newbies asked for.  All the hype you and yours created about them changing the plan was just that - your own hype.  This board of 9 have deferred to staff, but not before making sure staff answered their questions. There are weak points in the Tata plan, and they were brought to the surface by the newbies in the work session, after being ignored and rubber stamped by the previous board.  Someone else said it here on the blogs before me - I'm glad someone is asking questions.  You never liked the boards of old rubber stamping staff.  Can you explain your inconsistency with that now?  Maybe you can blog about it.  And since you are a bone fide self appointed journalist now, you may want to start doing your own research.

...

I didn't like the ideology used to assign students in the past. Back in the day, Dulaney used his magic to create "healthy schools" and the Board approved it. It was done the same way for years and years. No innovative thinking -- just nodes, diversity, and reassignment. It's different today.

While the new plan isn't what I envisioned, it is leaps and bounds better than the previous way of assigning students. I have sat at the Board work sessions where questions have been asked -- and I have been satisfied with most of the answers given by Overman and his team. Sure, there are items I think should be addressed further (feeder patterns for those who opted-out of MYR years ago, for example) but, overall, it's a solid plan that be adjusted as needed moving forward.

I don't think there was any hype. I still believe the Board will make changes to the new plan before its implementation. I hope I'm wrong.

I'm glad you're enjoying my blog. I don't think I'm "bona fide" yet but thanks for the vote of confidence.

LOL So you blast me and

LOL So you blast me and Jeffrey for not reading something you read once but now you can't find it. Nice.

Try reading the post again... Hard copy doc

I read a hard copy doc at the board meeting, not online.  Sorry - I don't have a stockpile of board docs in the corner of a room at my house so that I can supply Burns with research.

You can call me Jeff. I'm

You can call me Jeff.

I'm not talking about another tier. I'm talking about Schools A, B, and C in close proximity. School A starts at 8:30, School B starts at 8:40, and School C starts at 8:50. Bus #1 travels through nearby neighborhoods and picks up students for all three schools. Bus #1 then drops off students at School A, followed by schools B and C. It's what is done in hundreds of districts across the nation.

Right now, nearly every ES schools starts at the same time. Same is true for MS and HS. Parents won't complain if start times are tweaked by plus or minus 20 minutes.

And you need to brush up on your Charlotte facts. According to this link:

http://www.cms.k12.nc.us/cmsdepartments/transportation/Documents/Transportation_2011.pdf

937 school buses carry approximately 118,000 students to and from Charlotte schools daily.

According to this link:

http://www.wcpss.net/transportation/index.html

75,000 students in Wake County are transported on 900 buses

So Charlotte can transfer an additional 43,000 students daily with only 37 additional buses. Either Charlotte has buses with the capacity of an Airbus 380, or Wake is pretty inefficient.

Wow! You are right re: Charlotte!

Thanks for the latest data - - Sometimes facts are so much fun to read especially when you think you are proving one thing and another pops up - - do you see what you posted?  So Charlotte, after its conversion to choice with everyone having a base to fall back on (so basically neighborhood schools) buses 43 thousand more students than Wake!  And its county size is 1/3 smaller!  How come so many get to go to school so close to home, and still need a bus?  Could it be that Charlotte has fewer buses because bus routes are shorter, therefore one bus can do more than three routes in a day, as the Wake buses do?  Wake has 300 more square miles to cover (somebody fact check me there, I'm going by memory).   You can't say Charlotte spends X to move X and Wake spends X to move X.  It would work only if Charlotte and Wake had the same square miles, for starters. 

I wonder how Charlotte sits on the efficiency list now, as compared to Wake.  And by the way, read my 2nd post again - my point was - -  I was not saying the system is efficient, has efficiency - whatever, I said DPI categorized that way, not me. I don't get the bunny trail you went down....

And yall wonder why we question your reading skills....

As for your better mousetrap - we'll see if Tata follows your lead. With a different assignment plan, one would think a different transportation model is in order. With the choice plan, what you are proposing may be a better model, with one neighborhood going to three nearby schools.  Let's hope each school was all their #1 choice.  And yes, parents WILL scream about a 20 minute difference in bell schedules. That should have been up front info for parents before making a choice.

March Madness used to be about ACC Basketball around here....

So Charlotte, after its

So Charlotte, after its conversion to choice with everyone having a base to fall back on (so basically neighborhood schools) buses 43 thousand more students than Wake!  And its county size is 1/3 smaller!  How come so many get to go to school so close to home, and still need a bus?

A little common sense goes a long way in answering the question. What you should be asking is "Why do only half of all students in Wake take a bus to school?" It's because 1) bus stops are too early in the morning, 2) and bus routes are too long, and 3) demographics -- middle class parents, especially stay at home moms, prefer carpools (although there seems to e very little "pooling" going on).

We drove my daughter to a nearby school because she could get an extra hour of sleep in the morning by doing so. So many kids carpool that many schools need traffic cops during arrival and dismissal. Charlotte, though, has an F&R rate above 50%, and those kids generally ride a bus. Also, with the optimized bus routes, and shorter ride times, parents that might normally carpool to save time are instead putting their kids on the bus.

Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/comment/reply/46011/251553#storylink=cpy

Could it be that Charlotte has fewer buses because bus routes are shorter, therefore one bus can do more than three routes in a day, as the Wake buses do? 

No. Read the CMS transportation documents. They do not run more than three routes a day. Hell, there's a lot of buses in Wake that don't do three routes a day, because of the length of some routes.

Wake has 300 more square miles to cover (somebody fact check me there, I'm going by memory).   You can't say Charlotte spends X to move X and Wake spends X to move X.  It would work only if Charlotte and Wake had the same square miles, for starters.

No. That would only make sense if both Charlotte and Wake had similar, uniform densities, which they do not.  The NW, SW, and SE corners of Wake County are very low density areas that can be easily served by a handful of buses. And the NE corner (Wendell, Zebulong) only has a handful of schools. Those 4 corners of Wake County probably make up about 300 square miles (the difference between Wake and Charlotte), and the relatively small number of bus routes that serve that area are not significant enough to be responsible for Wake's inefficiencies.

Look, a few years ago Charlotte used to spend approximately $100 more per student for transportation than Wake. They underwent a huge initiative (on the same order of scale as changing the assignment system in Wake). It was a year long effort. They installed GPS devices on every bus, and measured bus routes down to the second. They looked at things like the average length of time spent at a stop light. In the end, they completely redesigned their transportation system. They saved $6 million the first year, despite increased ridership, and increased fuel costs. Why is it so hard for you to believe such a big effort resulted in a system that is more efficient than the one we have in Wake?

And yes, parents WILL scream about a 20 minute difference in bell schedules. That should have been up front info for parents before making a choice.

I respectfully disagree. Start and end times change drastically from ES to HS, and parents have to adapt along the way. I've never heard a parent complain of a start time that is more than one hour earlier when their child moves from ES to MS.

Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/comment/reply/46011/251553#storylink=cpy
And yes, parents WILL scream about a 20 minute difference in bell schedules. That should have been up front info for parents before making a choice.
Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/comment/reply/46011/251553#storylink=cpy

Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/wakeed/wake-county-superintendent-tony-tata-to-present-plan-to-transform-school-transportation#comments#storylink=cpy

Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/comment/reply/46011/251553#storylink=cpy
Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/comment/reply/46011/251553#storylink=cpy
Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/comment/reply/46011/251553#storylink=cpy

Good One!

"March Madness used to be about ACC Basketball around here..."

That was funny :)

 

 
THatwas 
Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/comment/reply/46011/251553#storylink=cpy

...

Can you post that report please?

just another lever

the transportation issue will just be another lever to nudge people into the schools that wake county schools wants to fill.    They do that with open seats, with calendar choice or lack of choice, with choice lists by node, with feeder patterns, with magnets, with what they decide to grandfather in and now they will do it with transportation.     Should be interesting to see how the play the game of cost vs good vs fast.  

They could just outsource it to fedex and treat each student like a package and have local buses transport students to regional bus depots and then bus them to the local schools.   Will be interesting if they go this route how they handle bus ride lengths.  

They could do the other logical thing like one bus per neighborhood and then have the bus make multiple stops at choice list schools for the neighborhood.  They would just then have to arrange the bell schedules by choice list areas.    Stop 1 - 7:15am bell, stop 2 7:30am bell, stop 3 - 7:40am bell, etc.

Transportation can be transformed easily by one decision

To make most parents accountable for it.

Interesting...

This could be another place where Tata's military background will help the district.  After all, transportation is all about logistics.  And, nobody does logistics like the military.

And Tata...

is definitely qualified for that.

So true

My sister was a special ed teacher down in El Paso for most of her teaching career.  The director of transportation was a retired military man.  Ran like clockwork and highly efficient.

When she moved here to NC years ago, and taught for a mere stint of one year (she left out of frustration with administration from within/out the school), she couldn't leave the school until her students (spec ed) were picked up - sometimes 60-90 min after she was officially done teaching for that day.  She could not comprehend how poorly transportation was run.

Special transportation

Wake County assigns contract transportation to students who are assigned to a program outside normal bus routes and/or who cannot ride a big yellow bus due to health or intellectual limitations. For example, students attend Bridges from all over the county, wheelchair-bound students need buses equipped with lifts, and students in self-contained classrooms must travel to a far away school.

Sometimes a family gets lucky, and they get assigned to a yellow WCPSS school bus or AA&D Transportation. Then their child will generally have a professional, prompt, honest, safe, and courteous driver. If AA&D or the local transportation office designs the route, it will be efficient.

However, if your child gets assigned to one of the other contractors, look out. These companies are generally run by folks who cannot design a route to get out of a paper bag. They refuse to take responsibility for any mistakes, will not apologize, and will not willingly communicatetwitch parents or schools. When they are forced to communicate, they will actually lie to you and your school. The trucks are dirty and poorly maintained.

The drivers are a mixed bag; some take their job seriously and do it well, but many don't, and it shows. Your child will never be picked up or delivered at the same time or even within the assigned 30-minute window. Sometimes they won't even show up at home or at school. Some will even make disparaging remarks about your child to your face. Who knows what they say when they're alone with their frequently non-verbal clients?

I hope that the transformation of transportation will look at special transportation and the contractors who provide it. I am certain there are inefficiencies that can be addressed.

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.
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