Some changes are being proposed for Wake County school bell schedules for this fall but it doesn't like shifting high schools to a later time is one of them.
As noted in today's article, staff revised the proposal Tuesday to reduce the number of schools that would see shifts for this fall. But the plan leaves in place proposed changes that would move more high schools 40 minutes earlier to a 7:25 a.m. start time.
Staff said that talk about starting high schools later and elementary schools earlier needs more review before it can be implemented. Click here for the staff presentation.
Staff offered a preliminary analysis on Tuesday, including issues that would have to be addressed in any major change.
Staff noted the benefits of later start times for high school students, including academic performance and less unsupervised time afterschool.
But Deputy Superintendent Cathy Moore said there's a lack of research showing that starting school earlier helps elementary students.
In terms of potential cons, staff said the change could impact childcare costs as older siblings wouldn't be able to provide afterschool care. There are issues with teens driving in traffic and impact on extracurricular activities.
Not all high schools have fields with lights. Staff said that those that do have lights often are part of joint community use with cities and towns. Those use deals would have to be renegotiated.
Staff also listed a potential schedule that might not make parents of younger students happy.
In starting high schools on a late tier, staff said elementary schools might have to switch to a 7:30 a.m. to 2 p.m. schedule. This means buses might pick up non-magnet students at 6:30 a.m. and magnet and non-base students at 5:45 a.m.
High schools could operate from 9:25 a.m. to 4:18 p.m.
Comments
Bell time shifts
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 21:09 — twinsplusoneOur school will be starting 40 minutes earlier - which means that elementary students can arrive at their school as early as 7:15! That means buses and carpoolers will be on the road very early and in the dark in the winter. If we could have an 8am start - still 20 min earlier that our current time it would be more feasible.
As far as $$$ goes - how much does it cost to change the school zone signs - the ones that say when schools are in session? It seems like every year the times are changing in some way and the signs need to be replaced. This costs money.
It seems like WCPSS is always in flux and there is always some controversy - it nevers ends.
??
Thu, 02/23/2012 - 14:38 — JSBinNCOur elementary does and has been on the 7:45 start time for years with drop off starting at 7:!5. It's fine - I don't understand your first point about the darkness, etc.
signage definitely could be an issue!
Sacrifice
Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:53 — jenmanOne thing that bothers me in all of these discussions about buses is that we're not asking any family to do something that other families aren't already doing. It seems most (or at least a large portion) of our elem schools already start at 9:15, or in your case the early tier. While it would be a change for the other families to have their school time change, we aren't asking them to do something that other families aren't. In the interst of full disclosure, my kids' schools are only set to change by 10 min. Our old elem is set to change from 8:30 to the 9:15 start time and I would not be happy about it if we were still there. But I'd live through it just like the families at Forest Pines & Wakefield do.
They talked about express busing for magnets and Kushner brought up that it wouldn't be good for elem kids to be using an express stop. Hello! The majority of our magnet schools have only express busing or no bus at all. So if it would not be good for the GT/AG magnets to move to express bus, why is it ok for any of our magnet students to be on express buses? Heck, we used an express bus stop located in a dang shopping center parking lot for 4 years. (I would like to see us not have stops in random parking lots anymore.)
One of my friends is at School X. The school is so dirty because of the cuts to janitorial staff that the school asked the teachers to come in on a Saturday to clean the bathrooms. Parents heard about this and instead organized parent volunteers to come in over the course of 2 school days to clean the entire school. When the kids were in specials, parents cleaned the classrooms. One teacher's parents chipped in to buy her a vacuum cleaner for XMas so she could clean her classroom. I'm not sure if it was the school or the PTA that paid for it, but they bought a vacuum & a cleaning kit (bucket, cleaning supplies) for each grade level.
Something's got to give. I forget if it was in the public comments or in the paper, but a parent was quoted as saying that yes, the new trans plan would save money but surely we could find that money somewhere else. We're running out of options people. Nobody wants to sacrifice anything but something has to give.
I don't disagree but...
Thu, 02/23/2012 - 20:57 — turnerk1You make a good point Jenman, and you have brought this sort of point up before (for instance the Enloe schedule change). But, I think you are forgetting that people are not asked, "here are our choices to cut funding, which is the least horrible?" they aren't asked "this will save money that we'd have to cut from the classroom budget, so are you willing to sacrifice," or "other schools have to start at 9:15, are you willing to start when everyone else does so that we don't have to cut your media specialist?" They are asked "How will this change affect you?" So THAT is the question they are answering. I think you'd be much more likely to get the answer you clearly would like to see, if the system asked parents a question that forced them to think about the bigger picture. It's really not completely fair to criticize people for not answering a question they were never asked.
Ehh...
Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:18 — Bob_SconceWhen you ask for comments on a plan, of course you're going to largely get complaints -- those who are happy usually don't speak up. Unfortunately, that dynamic repeats itself regularly in WCPSS -- the administration/board makes one change to please one set of families, but ends up hurting another set. Eventually, the music stops and somebody is left holding the bag, usually somebody who didn't even know the bad existed because they were unaffected up until the very last change.
However, it's the board's and the administration's job to be weighing what to cut to save money, not the public's.
Point taken and I didn't
Thu, 02/23/2012 - 21:49 — jenmanPoint taken and I didn't mean to sound harsh. People are of course going to be looking out for their own interests first--that's just natural.
I agree that it would be nice to see a list of potential cuts that could be made to save money. I think there needs to be an honest discussion with the board and at a community level about what things cost. What do we want to see in our school system? How much do the things we currently have cost? What trade offs could we make?
There were comments made about magnet busing and potential savings there. I'd like to see that info made public. How much are we spending to maintain neighborhood busing for the AG/GT magnets? What could we use that money for instead? Is it worth the trade off? It seems that the topic comes up, people jump to the defense and then it gets dropped. It's not just magnet busing--it could be anything. We need to have the hard discussions.
dark
Thu, 02/23/2012 - 15:08 — turnerk1I don't want to speak for the other poster, but I know if my child's ES started at 7:45, his bus would come at 6:15, which is quite dark certain times of year.
ahhh
Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:03 — JSBinNCok yes I see - yes bus pickups are early for early start schools for sure... to that point though, I would not leave my kids alone at the bus stop in the dark/early AM if they were HS seniors either - so that part just doesn't factor for me personally. They won't be alone at any age because i am *just* that paranoid. :)
I agree optimal would be two start times/tiers of bussing so the early starts can be pushed a bit later and the latest starts can start earlier. (dreaming I know...)
$$$$
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 14:57 — louiselee44Keung - has WCPSS said how much more money it would take to flip the bell schedules? That's what it has always boiled down to - money for more buses. Thanks!
No. That's presumably
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 15:09 — KeungHui (author)No. That's presumably something that would be part of the formal review.
Thanks
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 15:45 — louiselee44Formal review?
After they get through this
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 15:56 — KeungHui (author)After they get through this year's schedules they say they can do a formal review of flipping the bell schedules.
sorry - one more question!
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 16:03 — louiselee44Sooo - that will come too late to affect changes for 2012-2013?
I'm sorry if I didn't make
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 16:30 — KeungHui (author)I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear in the post that this kind of widespread change is off the table for this fall. The board memers, even the ones most interested in the change, seemed to accept the staff contention that it couldn't be done now without more review. What the board appears to be focusing on now is making some individual revisions to the latest proposal.
Thanks, Keung!!
Thu, 02/23/2012 - 21:14 — louiselee44I figured as much.
More Review?
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 14:51 — louiselee44Are they kidding? I know it's a matter of finding money - always has been - but if it's research they need to review, that's a joke. Over the weekend, I emailed board members ( and Superintendent Tata) tons of research I have collected for about 8 years. I also sent excerpts from emails that I have sent to board members over those same 8 - 10 years on this very issue. Maybe I should send it to the staff!
Other systems make the flipped schedule work. Wake County has short-changed its students for too long - and kept from them a proven advantage to academic performance.
And this quote just kills me:
"In terms of potential cons, staff said the change could impact childcare costs as older siblings wouldn't be able to provide afterschool care."
Research also shows that the number of "latchkey children", home alone, increases during the 3-week YR track-out times, largely because high school siblings are still in school, and also because many working parents can't afford the sporadic childcare costs. Where was the outcry when this and many other "cons" were shared over and over with board members during the mandatory YR schools controversy??
There is such a double standard!!!!!!
P.S. - yes, I am quite familiar with all of the cons involved with bell-changes, some of which are quite legit. Knowing what I know, the pros still win hands down.
more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/wakeed/wake-county-staff-says-more-review-needed-before-starting-high-schools-later#new#storylink=cpy
But Deputy Superintendent
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 09:47 — jenmanBut Deputy Superintendent Cathy Moore said there's a lack of research showing that starting school earlier helps elementary students.
My thought when I heard her say this was "Is there research showing that it harms elem students?"
Precisely...
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 10:41 — Bob_SconceWe're looking for a situation where some people are made better off without making others worse off.
Right now, Mrs. Sconce and I have to drag our ES student out of bed at 8:00 for a 9:15 start time. It would take some adjustment to get to a 7:45 start time, but nothing that we can't manage by shifting bedtimes.
press on!
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 08:34 — stepbystepAs with all schedule changes, there are effects that some view as favorable and some unfavorable. I am glad staff is willing to study the issue further, and I hope the study will be comprehensive. I also hope the further study will focus on the impact on student achievement, which is what WCPSS should be most concerned with. While I acknowledge that child care, teens driving, extra-curricular activities, field lights, and the happiness of elementary parents are part of the mix, those concerns should be secondary to student achievement. Families must make tough decisions all the time about time and resources, but it is not WCPSS's responsibility to take care of all the aforementioned concerns that impact families.
delete
Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:24 — RWTdelete