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The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? Will the new student assignment plan be a hybrid of the last two models or primarily be a return to the use of busing for diversity? Who will replace Tony Tata as the new superintendent of the state's largest district? How will voters react to a likely request in 2013 to borrow potentially more than $1 billion to build and renovate schools?

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Wake County school diversity supporters on avoiding Forsyth County's resegregation under school choice plan

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Supporters of restoring diversity to Wake County's student assignment plan have been talking about a recent article on resegregation and school choice in the Winston-Salem Forsyth County schools.

This Sunday article in the Winston-Salem Journal notes how the school district phased out busing for diversity starting in 1995 in favor of "choice zones," which allow parents to choose from among multiple schools. The article says that racial resegregation quickly accelerated in the schools and led to concentrated poverty in certain schools.

"Despite zoned assignment plans offering parents diverse school choices, local schools tend to reflect their neighborhoods," according to the article. "And those neighborhoods, while changing, still reflect the legacy of zoning laws that laid out where black people were allowed to live for much of the 20th century."

In 17 of the school system's 44 elementary schools, at least 89 percent of students qualified for federally subsidized free or reduced-price lunches this past school year. The article adds that the phenomenon is lessened, but still obvious, in middle and high schools, which draw students from larger areas within the county.

Now how significant this is for Winston-Salem/Forsyth County schools depends on who you ask.

For instance, the article says that poorer schools, with higher minority populations, tend to have the school system's lowest test scores. Richer schools, with the highest percentage of white students, tend to have the best scores.

Winston-Salem/Forsyth County Schools Superintendent Don Martin noted in the article that the system has lowered the gap over the last several years. In fact, the school system's gap on reading and math tests among elementary and middle school students is lower than the gap in Wake County, even though the article notes that Wake's assignment plan had been lauded as a national model.

"Wake's performance for poor kids and African-American kids is worse than ours," Martin said. "It may be that African-American kids can learn in the same building."

While that's true based on some test scores, the article notes that it's not correct across the board. Black students in Wake County test better on average in reading, for example, than their Forsyth County counterparts.

And the article adds that much of the reason Wake's achievement gap is higher than Forsyth County's is because its white students there score significantly better than white students here, based on several years worth of data from state tests given students in grades three through eight.

The article also says that economics likely plays a role as Wake County has a higher median household income than any other large county in the state, according to 2010 census figures.

The article notes how the Forysth County school system has tried to balance things with extra funding at poorer schools. Those with higher percentages of students qualifying for free or reduced-price lunches become "Equity Plus" schools. Teachers there get salary bonuses, and the class sizes are smaller.

Federal Title I money also flows to poorer schools, and the now-defunct equity committee found that those schools spend more tax dollars per student than their wealthier counterparts. But Equity Plus schools still have higher teacher turnover rates and less experienced teachers on average, though that experience gap has lessened in recent years.

In terms of that district's choice plan, the article says Forsyth County allows parents to research various schools and pick one for their child. Roughly a third of families pick a school other than the one closest to their home, Martin said.

Choice information is available year round online, or by asking at a school. The system sends middle-school information home with fifth-graders, and it advertises kindergarten pre-registration by posting signs at elementary schools before the school year begins, Martin said.

But roughly 40 percent of kindergarten students don't pre-register, Martin said. They simply show up at the beginning of the school year.

Families are guaranteed one of their top three choices in elementary school, according to the system. So Kimberley Park Elementary's student body is nearly 100 percent minority because minority parents chose the school.

But those who favor forced diversity policies call this "the myth of choice." and an example of "systematic racism."

Moving back to Wake, school board chairman Kevin Hill talked about the article in an interview this week on WPTF. I'll blog about it next week.

The article was also referenced in this Monday blog post by Rob Schofield of the liberal N.C. Policy Watch. Schofield writes that the article shows "the re-segregation of Forsyth County’s schools that has occurred in recent decades and the illusion that 'school choice' can somehow provide a remedy for this situation."

"Wake County and others that have not already become fully resegregated themselves should pay attention," Schofield adds.

1341613179 Wake County school diversity supporters on avoiding Forsyth County's resegregation under school choice plan The News and Observer Copyright 2011 The News and Observer . All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

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Laughable is you pretending

Laughable is you pretending that everything the old board did was well-planned and not rushed at the last minute.  Just be honest.  The entire conversation will go more smoothly for everyone involved.

I'm pretty sure the only way to get close to 97% is to include people who were grandfathered into their current school (and had to do nothing) among those who received their first choice.  That would be some of the best book-cookin' ever.

Also, it's funny that you said in your first post that everyone is misusing "segregation" then you went on to totally twist it into some warped thing in this post.

The name-calling is really tiresome.  Especially when you couldn't be more off base with it.

?

So, the 97% includes not just people who were "grandfathered" into their current school, but people who were assigned a feeder pattern that they liked.

I don't know why those people wouldn't be included in any discussion of the plan's success in getting people into where they want to be. 

You can also look at the number of transfer requests that the district has received, which is about 1/2 what they were in previous years -- that, certainly, should be a sign of the reduced number of people who are unhappy with their assignment.

I think the reduced number

I think the reduced number of transfers is more significant than the 97% who didn't participate in the process. If I only had one or two years left at an elem school that wouldn't be my first choice but fed into the middle/high schools I wanted, I'd stay there. Even if it fed into a different middle or high school I might stay. There are just too many variables that we don't know, just like the YR survey.

The reduction in transfer apps is significant enough that the Dem board members should be trying to figure out what worked in the choice plan before they get rid of it outright.

Wouldn't it make sense to

Wouldn't it make sense to think that the reduction in transfer apps is directly related to the fact that no one (that I know of) was shipped out of a school that they liked?

I don't think that kindergarteners who were assigned to the "wrong" school ever represented a large percentage of transfer requests.

Yup...

In comparison to previous years, where students were often reassigned out of schools that they liked.  Regressing to that sort of plan, as KHill seems to want to do, will end up making parents more unhappy.

I agree that the reduction

I agree that the reduction is due in part to nobody being reassigned. It would be interesting to compare the number/percentage of transfers this year to those of previous years that we didn't have reassignments. I think that's why the board members talked about a 'finish where you start' policy, although I don't know how that will work with a base assignment plan.

I wonder how many parents of Kinders applied for transfers this year and previous years.

Transfers

Transfer requests are highest in the years more new schools are opened, which is why there were more reassignments in those years - to fill new schools - which is cost effective.  Direct correlation.  That's why the board is talking about stay where you start.  Its a family friendy way, but more expensive per pupil at the school, to open new schools - start in K, and open the rest of the grades to transfers OUT of the school their base was at vs transferring to stay IN the school you started at.

...

I wonder if that "stay where you start" discussion will include transportation.

The term segregation is

The term segregation is being wildly misused by the N&O and others merely to create controversy. Segregation has to do with coercion and forcing people into situations not of their choosing. With the choice plan -- where parents/students/families choose where they want to go to school -- there is no coercion and no segregation. So, even if racially identifiable schools are created with the choice plan -- and that is extremely unlikely in Wake County as we are very diverse throughout the County -- it is entirely  voluntary and therefore cannot be construed as anything even remotely associated with segregation.

It is enormously insulting to suggest that being racially identifiable could be considered a negative thing. If it is, perhaps black churches, colleges and organizations (i.e., Martin Street Baptist Church, Shaw University, and the NAACP) should be disbanded immediately.  

The new student assignment "directive," (plan?) which was hastily hand-written in the dark of night with very little board discussion and no public input (what are the hiding?), disempowers parents and families and grants enormous powers to the school system bureaucracy to dictate where students go to school. And, that bureaucracy is currently and very unfortunately being controlled by radical board members (Hill, Kushner, Sutton, Martin and that other person)  who think parents who value school choice are "selfish" and "anti-social." Welcome back to 2009.

Segregation has to do with

Segregation has to do with coercion and forcing people into situations not of their choosing.

Exactly! And that is why the term resegregation is a made-up word that has no place in the English language.

Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/wakeed/wake-county-school-diversity-supporters-on-avoiding-forsyth-countys-resegregation-under-schoo#new#storylink=cpy

Your first paragraph has no

Your first paragraph has no chance of being factual unless every parent/family is ultimately sent to their first-choice school.

I don't remember you being against hastily-written directives when the old board was in charge.  It seems like they should either be always good or always bad.....I don't think it should matter who is doing the writing.

The choice plan was created

The choice plan was created with enormous input from the public, the business community and civic organizations and has been endorsed by all key stakeholders. How you can compare that to Sutton's hastily written scribbles in the middle of the night -- w/limited board discussion and NO public input at all -- is laughable.

As for first choice of schools, you are right not everyone got first choice.... it was only 97+% of families. Perfection can be elusive, but when you find examples of it, please let us know. Also, by your bizarre logic, the old plan where there was NO choice in assignments was the epitome of segregation since all students were forced into schools not of their choosing and were systematically categorized by a very, very narrow definition of "diversity."

You radical left-wingers just LOVE big, intrusive, and paternalistic government, don't you?

Interesting...

The article says that poorer schools, with higher minority populations, tend to have the school system's lowest test scores.  Richer schools, with the highest percentage of white students, tend to have the best scores.

Well, duuhhh.  Low-income students tend to have lower test scores than affluent students.  Not surprisingly, a group of low-income students will tend to have lower test scores than a group of affluent students.

The interesting thing is that ED kids in Forsythe tend to perform about as well as ED kids in Wake.  Seems a bit inconsistent to attack Forsythe as failing those students while praising  Wake.

 

Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/wakeed/wake-county-school-diversity-supporters-on-avoiding-forsyth-countys-resegregation-under-schoo#new#storylink=cpy

Somebody tell Tedesco

Forsyth doesn't "hide" their low performing students, and they haven't closed the gap, so "finding" them doesn't work either.  Go read the entire article - the "rich" school and the "poor" school bus between them for enrichment opportunities, principal led.  One of the poor students asked, when approaching the rich school, asked if they were still in Winston Salem.  That is so sad.

Also Tedesco, on the campaign trail a few days ago, was videoed by the Rowan Free Press stating he fired Del Burns.

 

Overalls and averages don't tell us much

Did you look at the charts attached to the article? They have schools that are >95% FRL and <10% white where the EOG proficiency rates for low-income and minority students are well above state and district averages and wcpss averages (Mineral Springs ES for example) and other schools where they are below (Kimberly Park for example). So, if people really wanted to get to a solution on how to close gaps, it seems they'd be asking what is Mineral Springs doing differently then Kimberly Park. From the article, I gathered that only Kimberly Park had a bussing partnership and it started two years ago. Interestingly, if you look at the test score chart for Kimberly Park on their 2010-11 school report card, their test results dropped from 2009-10.

Personally, given the question about still being in W-S came from an elementary school student and there's no further context it is hard to tell exactly what prompted to question. The real question is what tangible benefit and knowledge has that child gained in taking that trip to the "rich" school?

One thing that struck me in the article was the section about the gulf in understanding. The gulf in understanding doesn't shrink just because the kids are in the same school building. Sitting next to a "rich" kid who may mention his family went to a nice restaurant or talk about a beach trip, isn't the same as experiencing it yourself (like how Kimberly sends their kids to a donated lunch at a nice restaurant). I've witnessed the gulf in understanding plenty in our diverse school here despite the fact that IMO overall our school climate/culture is better than many. Sorry, but just because there are poor kids in the school doesn't automatically make those who have never been poor more understanding. I know that some have that hope or the theory, but things often don't work as well in reality as is theorized.

I'd love to know how many meaningful relationships develop and last through "balancing" or whatever people want to call it. For example, I'd like to know what percentage of a) magnet applicant kids at Group 1 magnets regularly spend the night in the neighborhoods surrounding those schools and b) how many kids living in the Group 1 magnet areas who are bussed out regularly spend the night in the homes around their suburban school.

Yup...

Seen it at my kids' school also -- the kids self-segregate in their peer groups, based largely on where they live.  My white kids each have friends of different races, but those friends live in the neighborhood -- they're not the kids who are assigned from someplace else.  

The pro-"diversity" forces have always overstated the purported benefit.

"One of the poor students

"One of the poor students asked, when approaching the rich school, asked if they were still in Winston Salem.  That is so sad."

I agree that it was pretty startling to read that, particularly since they were only being bused 3.2 miles away. I figured it would be more like the distance between downtown and Green Hope or Wakefield. But, I think that same comment could easily be made by some of Raleigh's own children who live downtown. It's a similar distance between Washington Terrace and Hayes Barton and I imagine that the comparison is as stark as the Winston-Salem situation.

 

Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/comment/reply/49418/265364#storylink=cpy

Thanks. Just saw the video.

Thanks. Just saw the video.

...

WCPSS hasn't closed the gap either - and we will never know how our choice plan pans out. Why will going back to an assignment plan that buses the poor change anything?

Why would you think

Why would you think the choice plan for Wake would play out any differently than the choice plan in Forsyth?  And, you make assumptions on what the new base/choice model will look like. 

...

I'm not making assumptions. Are you saying WCPSS will choose to bus the rich kids this time around? I highly doubt it. It will be the poor (and in Wake County that translates to black) children who will be used to fill Kevin Hill's desire for a social order. Did you watch the WRAL video? Hill defines a "healthy school" and it sounds just like the old Policy 6200.

I didn't see it. I was being anti-social and didn't watch.

Busy selfishly getting ready for the next PTA year. :)

MY GOODNESS...

...Where are all of the naysayers to find some creative, yet factLESS way to shoot down these disturbing findings? This is your favorite subject, right-wingers...namely how choice solves all of the world's problems....just as long as you live in the right neighborhoods.

EVERY citizen, and EVERY taxpayer, should be on one accord that the only way we erradicate poverty in our county, state and nation, is that EACH and EVERY child, regardless of color, get a 'sound, basic education.' Nothing less can do, or will do. But that won't happen as long as you clowns keep demanding racially exclusive schools as the be-all of our problems.

Our new school board is trying to head this crisis off at the pass. The sooner Tony Tata and his  band of moronic followers realize that, the better!

Disturbing findings?

Families are guaranteed one of their top three choices in elementary school, according to the system. So Kimberley Park Elementary's student body is nearly 100 percent minority because minority parents chose the school.
But those who favor forced diversity policies call this "the myth of choice." and an example of "systematic racism."

Why is it a myth of choice if minority parents choose a school, and voila, it's 100% minority? Did they not know what they were choosing? Or is this somehow the wrong choice?

The disturbing finding is that wake's gap is no better after years of forced busing.

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.
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