What responsibility does the Wake County school system have in providing transportation to preassigned rising sixth- and ninth-graders who don't have bus service this fall?
As noted in today's article, the school board voted to direct staff to, when possible, modify existing bus routes to accommodate students or to offer them a spot at a school on their proximity list that would give them transportation.
But that motion stops short of guaranteeing bus service to their feeder school. And that motion only extends to students who are receiving bus service this year and would lose it this fall, not transfer students who now don't get bus service.
In what would later prove to be a key issue, Superintendent Tony Tata said during the work session that the old assignment plan had 9,000 students who were assigned without transportation as a result of transfers. He made this point to argue that cutting the bus service for the 470 rising sixth- and ninth-graders who had it this year isn't a unique situation.
Tata said most of the 470 students chose not to participate in the choice process. Staff says only 70 of them are on waiting lists. This group consists of 292 rising sixth-graders and 178 rising ninth-graders.
Tata also said that if they guaranteed bus service to the 470, which would cost $2 million to run 30 more buses, then the 9,000 transfer students would ask "what about me?"
School board member Jim Martin was clearly skeptical of the $2 million figure, saying "that can't be right."
Chief Facilities and Operations Officer Don Haydon said it would cost that much because the students are scattered across the county.
Martin said he would press ahead with his motion to include bus service for all preassigned students. School board attorney Ann Majestic said that language was very broad and would cover the transfer students.
In a point he would repeat, Martin said he wasn't comfortable with not guaranteeing them transportation to their feeder school.
"I don’t want to pressure families into saying you only have transportation if you go this school that’s not your choice," Martin said.
Jumping to the regular meeting, staff made sure to include in their motion that it only affected rising sixth- and ninth-graders who now get bus service but would lose it by going to their preassigned feeder. This limited it to 470 student and didn't include transfer students.
School board member Christine Kushner questioned not including transfer students. She said in the past when families got transfers, they didn't realize it would lead to a feeder without transportation too.
Martin complained that the wording, by not guaranteeing transportation, isn't different to what staff had been doing. Martin wanted to modify the motion to say they'd make all effort, not just say when it can be provided.
Also, since staff said 80 percent of the 470 students are from low-performing nodes, Martin wanted to change the motion to say that staff would get the students into a regional choice school and not just any school on their list.
"It's absolutely our obligation not to disadvantage our students with the highest needs," Martin said.
School board member Susan Evans would also make a pitch for guaranteeing service. She said providing a family with their fifth choice isn't a real choice.
"Families are looking to us to give them some certainty in these crazy times they’re in with this transition to this new plan," Evans said. "We’ve got a lot of people caught in the middle."
School board member John Tedesco brought up the cost factor of guaranteeing transportation.
"It would be irresponsible to mandate a will without looking at, if that does cost %2 million, where that cost is coming from," Tedesco said.
Tedesco questioned spending that money for those few students when they could spend $2 million improving cleaning services for all the district's students.
"Those number are not appropriate," Martin interjected.
"This is not a court of law, you can't object, " Tedesco responded.
Kushner proposed a friendly amendment that would strike the words "currently receiving district transportation" from the motion. This would then lump in the transfer students who currently don't have transportation.
School board vice chairman Keith Sutton called a recess to let staff determine how many students would be affected by that wording.
After the recess, James Overman, head of the student assignment task force, said it would raise the number of students impacted to 1,039.
Based on that higher amount, school board member Chris Malone, who made the motion to accept staff's motion, said he couldn't accept the amendment.
The tenor of the conversation proceeded to get testier.
School board member Deborah Prickett said she had to question whether Martin's motives were genuine when he said that providing bus service to all the students is the cost of business.
Tedesco said the people who had gotten transfers accepted they weren't getting bus service.
Evans said those people didn't know when they got a transfer they'd be in this new feeder system.
Evans also touched on the impact of guaranteeing bus service for the 470 students. Evans said that staff has "admitted several times" they don't know the full transportation cost of the new plan.
"The little piece that these couple of hundred students would add isn’t much," Evans said. " We know that transportation costs will go up.”
Tata said they've consistently said the new assignment plan will cost five to 25 additional buses.
Martin brought up former Secretary of State Colin Powell's "Pottery Barn" rule of "you break it, you own it," to say that bus service should be guaranteed.
"We didn't break anything," Tata responded.
Martin also said he had "a hard time" accepting that it would only cost five to 25 more buses. He said he "won't be surprised" if Wake will need more buses.
"I don’t feel we did an appropriate costing of the plan and now we’re paying the consequence," Martin said.
Kushner called for board members to have respect when others are speaking and to stop questioning motives.
Not long afterward, school board member Debra Goldman accused Martin of talking over everyone. I didn't hear it, but Prickett said she had heard Evans say "hush" to Goldman over her remark.. Prickett also said Evans said "get a life" to her when she pointed it out.
The board eventually went back to voting on the motion from staff. It passed on a 6-3 vote.

Comments
Rather telling that WCPSS
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 19:39 — bouncing_rockRather telling that WCPSS will pick up the transportation tab for affluent parents resisting bell schedule changes while riding roughshod over disadvantaged parents.
Which affluent parents are
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 21:53 — spiffy1Which affluent parents are you referring to? Did you look at the schools that were changed? Notice how the magnet schools were not even impacted...oh wait...if you call 5-10 minutes impacted...I guess the were.
Also look at the schools where changes were not even recommended. I don't notice a pattern in the bell schedule of "affluent" parents getting their way...matter of fact, I know that at least 1 elementary school (the dreaded DDE) lost their normal transport and now will be sharing buses with the middle school (DDMS)...
meanwhile, we can send 20+ buses (for one elementary school) to here, there, and everywhere for the magnet kids...Oh wait, NOW we are talking about the affluent kids. This is where the WCPSS is willing to put a ton of money...this is more on point, I think, with what you are trying to say...AGREE?
You must be referring to the
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 19:16 — bouncing_rockYou must be referring to the magnets with neighborhood busing. Considering some parents prefer express busing to save on commute time, certainly the BOE woudl have support from some magnet parents if a cost reduction was made in that area.
Regarding DDES and DDMS, are you stating that elementary and middle school students ride the bus together?
http://www.wcpss.net/school-directory/391.html
http://www.wcpss.net/school-directory/390.html
Yes, I am referring to the
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 20:17 — spiffy1Yes, I am referring to the neighborhood bussing. Not a lot of express bussing occurring anywhere---heavily weighted to neighborhood bussing. Don't know if they will be changing that up next year...I'm thinking not, but we'll see.
And yes, DDES and DDMS will be riding the bus together for 2012-2013...not sure I have a huge issue with that since it is my understanding this is done at other MS and ES that share a campus and there are no problems with it and really--back in the day---some schools were K-8 and everyone shared a bus.
However, considering both of these schools combined have the amount of buses that some magnet ES have (at one school) AND the magnet buses are going on routes WAY longer than any of the routes at DDES or DDMS...makes you wonder what could be done to cut back across the board.
The problem is that some
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 21:05 — bouncing_rockThe problem is that some parents aren't flexible. Whether it's some DDES parents getting upset over bell schedule changes or some magnet parents not wanting express bussing, there will be money down the drain unless the BOE adopts a tougher stance across the board.
...
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 20:36 — SideburnsYou mean like the 85 bus routes to Enloe?
85 Routes to Enloe
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:03 — Solon77So much for a school that provides opportunity for all of the county. We can start by eliminating the bus service to/from Apex.
...
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 07:09 — SideburnsWhy Apex? I thought our white suburban kids were the reason Enloe is so successful.
Don't you think 85 bus routes is a little excessive? Almost 10% of the total buses for 1 of 165 schools?
Why Apex ?
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 20:58 — Solon77Only a handful of students from Apex go to Enloe. It is not really fair for the rest of us to support such a small group. On the other hand, looking forward to see what the transportation costs are for the leadership academies.
...
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 21:15 — SideburnsWow, why the Apex hatred? It really is the Peak of Good Living. Don't hate.
BTW, how do you know "only a handful" come from Apex? Is there a link to that information?
Apex
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 23:37 — Solon77No Apex hatred. There seems to be a movement to optimize busing costs, so the low hanging fruit would be to eliminate those that are farthest from the school.
busses
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 10:20 — turnerk1Well, it is a lot of busses, but you have to remember that many of them also have kids who go from Enloe to other schools. If the busses only had Enloe students they could probably combine many of those routes.
Even when given the combo
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 11:19 — spiffy1Even when given the combo routes (some even combined with alternative schools)...they have more than enough buses---14 routes shared with Ligon and Carnage, 31 shared with Carnage, 23 shared with Ligon and 1 route is combined with another and several shared with some of the alternative schools, which also share with Ligon and Carnage--Mary Phillips and Longview. The WCPSS has it running in a way that will make your head spin trying to figure it out. Makes you wonder why?
And...Yes...some routes going to 5 schools a day and one route going to the same school twice (Mary Phillips). All based upon the routes posted at WCPSS.
Enloe has ZERO express routes!! You'd be amazed at how little express bussing is used for magnet schools!
However, consider the Garner magnet High, which was recently recognized for doing better with ALL students---they have 5 express routes and 34 regular routes. Don't think Enloe made that list....Keung posted about it a little while back.
Garner - better for all students
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 21:39 — Solon77Sure, we will tell the smart kids at Enloe to fail some tests so the achievement gap will close.
With regards to the bus situation. The latest distance analysis I could find was 2009. It probably hasn't changed much. Garner had 147 students attend by choice and the majority of those assigned were within 5 miles of the school. Enloe on the other hand has 1800 students attending by choice with the majority of those students coming from greater than 5 miles.
You miss the point. We are
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 22:05 — spiffy1You miss the point. We are not doing enough for the lower-performing students (typically the "base" kids in the magnet schools)...that's what that ranking was based on and my reference to Garner ranking. We don't need to lower expectations for ANY group. Quite frankly, we need to raise the bar for all the kids.
Problem at Enloe and many magnets...the magnet kids get pushed up and the base and/or lower income kids--nice and steady. If these programs are not giving us stellar ACADEMIC results for each group, we need to go back to the drawing board...like trying new things like Walnut Creek Elementary or looking at schools with high f&r and good EOG grades and see why they are succeeding or did succeed in the past under those conditions. Then replicate those models.
The WCPSS is hear to educate ALL kids equally and it is failing too many kids at this point!! Change is needed.
Problem at Enloe
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 23:16 — Solon77At Enloe the students, magnet or base, are not pushed and there are no baby sitters. Course selections are made by the student and the classes available are those that the pre requisites have been meet. You can lead the horse to water but you can't make them drink. Enloe has a large population of kids that are highly motivated and take advantage of the offerings made available. There is also a large segment that try to get by with doing the minimum required. With regards to Garner, are you saying those students are not pushed enough ? For a magnet school that has all of the extras, Garner has a low participation in AP classes, low participation in SAT, and a 20 pt lower graduation rate than Enloe. How do explain the difference ?
Walnut Creek - looking forward to later in the summer when the test scores are out to see if the extra $1M+ has yielded a payback.
For Garner...just saying
Sat, 05/19/2012 - 07:42 — spiffy1For Garner...just saying they were ranked...and Enloe was no where on the list. It was on this blog a little while back. Here's the link.
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/wakeed/new-rankings-of-nations-top-public-high-schools-show-surprising-results
So how much is spend on magnet schools and what's the payback for the "base" kids per schools? That's what we need to see and see if all that money spent is giving us another return for our money.
Effectiveness Index
Sat, 05/19/2012 - 19:14 — Solon77I read the methodology.
Step #1 - So it seems the effectiveness index is alive and well at US News.
Step #2 - On selected tests Garner does better. Although one has to question the rankings when both schools show N/A for English I proficiency.
Step # 3 - AP participation. We need Arthur Anderson to audit this. Garner has one of the lowest AP participation rates.
So aside from the national rankings, Enloe graduation rate is higher than Garner and has a 20 pt higher SAT participation.
For Garner...just saying
Sat, 05/19/2012 - 07:42 — spiffy1For Garner...just saying they were ranked...and Enloe was no where on the list. It was on this blog a little while back. Here's the link.
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/wakeed/new-rankings-of-nations-top-public-high-schools-show-surprising-results
So how much is spend on magnet schools and what's the payback for the "base" kids per schools? That's what we need to see and see if all that money spent is giving us another return for our money.
Enloe does have Express
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 14:20 — croaswifeIt is Ligon/Enloe Express route EL#73. While my neighborhood has a bus, we are first in the morning and last in the afternoon on the route. I transferred to the Express bus and we don't save any time in the morning because I have to drive to the express stop 6 minutes from home but in the afternoon my son arrives home 30-40 minutes earlier than he would on the neighborhood bus.
Thanks for the info! Nice
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 15:09 — spiffy1Thanks for the info! Nice to know there is 1 express route out of all those routes...however, got to clarify...you have a neighborhood bus, but ride the express? Essentially you have 2 routes. Must be nice to have those options..another perk. Is this given to any kids not in magnet schools?
No I don't have 2 routes
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 15:38 — croaswifeI had to transfer out off the neighborhood route in order to have a seat on the express bus. You are only allowed to be assigned to one route and are only legally allowed to ride one bus. For example I can't take my neighborhood bus in the morning and the express bus in the afternoon. You have to stick with one or the other. I am sure there are people that violate this but if a day comes where every seat on the bus is occupied you want to make sure you are officially assigned to the bus you really want to be on.
But...you do still have a
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 15:54 — spiffy1But...you do still have a bus going to your school going through your neighborhood right? So you have an option for 2 different routes, correct? That's my point.
not necessarily
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 16:16 — EBDarcyIf no one is boarding the bus the stop is eliminated. We have neighborhood and express service available to 2 AG magnets from my neighborhood. One MS kid decided (after a week of getting up at 5 a.m.) that she was going to switch to the express bus that the other student in our neighborhood rides. They eliminated our neighborhood stop since no one was using it. They also eliminated the next closest stop, a couple streets over, for the same reason.
...
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 15:59 — SideburnsWhat? You can choose either a neighborhood bus or an express bus to the same school? How long has that been going on?
I have no idea how long
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 16:15 — croaswifeOur bus is pretty full - it stops at Leesville, Lead Mine and Lynn Road in the morning and has an added stop at Baileywick in the afternoon. I've seen as many as 20 kids get off the bus just at at Leesville in the afternoon. If all the express riders needed neighborhood service then the neighborhood routes would probably require more stops and exceed the time limits for bus ride times or they would need to expand the number of neighborhood busses to meet the time constraints.
I do think Express service should be expanded
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 15:47 — croaswifeI think WCPSS should use more Express service for all schools but parents need to volunteer for it and not be forced. Even though it works for my family, it is a hassle to make 4 round trips a day to a bus stop 3 miles away ( I do it twice for ES and twice for MS express routes). Not all express stops are even reasonable distances from home, you would be better off driving all the way to the school. Most working parents don't have the flexibility to make all the trips I do to express stops- 6:00 am, 7:20 am, 3:10 and 3:45 pm.
Really? Well how about all
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 16:17 — spiffy1Really? Well how about all the kids that had their bell schedule change...so we could go to a Two-Tiered Transportation System--saying we need to increase DPI efficiency ratings so we would not lose funding and saying that means increase ridership...Do you think these magnet buses are helping or hurting our ratings and is it fair for the majority of the families in the WCPSS to pay for and deal with the consequences for continuing to make it convenient for magnet parents?
Convenience for Magnet Parents
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 20:51 — Solon77Yeah I find it convenient to bring my kid to the bus stop for a 6:15 pick up, a real luxury. The real reason, although not admitted, for the bell schedule change was anticipating the inefficiencies of the new assignment plan. The number of buses circling a neighborhood will be like a car pool line.
No idea
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 16:42 — croaswifeI have no idea of all the ins and outs of the DPI efficiency ratings. Do I think WCPSS has opportunities for improvement? Absolutely, and hopefully the (mostly) minor bell schedule changes will help with that. I do think they should mass market a plan to recruit parents to sign up for more express bussing. I also believe if they went to strictly express bus or no bus to far away magnet schools a large percentage of families would be forced to say they can no longer attend the magnet school. Then you would have all those students vying for seats near home creating less of a chance of reaching the goal to place most people in their 1st or 2nd choice proximity school. A greater number would get sent to the 3rd, 4th or 5th choice and WCPSS would need to bus them there going right back to the inefficiency you blame the magnets for.
Actually, the only magnets
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 11:58 — jenmanActually, the only magnets that have neighborhood service are the AG and GT magnets. The rest of the magnets offer express or no busing at all. (I think there may be one or two routes that are an exception, but for the most part the other magnets do not offer neighborhood service)
I asked somebody in the transportation dept about this 6 or 7 years ago. At that point we were using an express stop at FON & Spring Forest that we weren't supposed to use because we weren't in the transporation area for our magnet. The bus was less than half full. I was trying to get "official" magnet express bus service for my area and I was asking for an express stop north of 540. I asked why we couldn't even get magnet express bus service when other magnets were sending buses through my neighborhood to pick up kids and those same schools also had express bus stops near my home. They said they'd been trying for several years to move the GT/AG magnets to express busing but the parents always fought it & WCPSS always backed down.
Well, things must have
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 13:25 — spiffy1Well, things must have changed a little because according to WCPSS own information--on the website about bus routes. I can find no magnet school that offers ALL express routes. I can find 3 schools that offer the majority of their routes as express--whether GT or not. Brooks Elementary, Centennial, and Moore Square Middle are the only ones I can find with 50% or greater express routes.
Most magnets have 0 or only a handful (3, 4 or 5) express routes. Note also how few routes are for the "base" kids.Some magnet schools actually have a "shared" base route--really?--that would be 1 base bus for 2 schools... Blows me away when you start looking at those numbers.
These "half" full buses are exactly what I am concerned about--our DPI efficiency rating keeps going down...How much are magnet schools impacting that? When several of them at the elementary level running 3 or 4 times the buses that "regular" elementary schools run AND have 200-300 LESS KIDS and travel A LOT MORE MILES!!
This was part of the reasoning behind moving to a two-tiered transportation system and bell schedule changes for 2012-2013. Are we going to make more magnet parents participate in express routes now or did we just pass this burden on to all the other families in the county to "make up" for their impact?
Not all students are magnet
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 14:22 — croaswifeYou have to keep in mind a large portion of the student population at a magnet school are base/proximity studenbts so they would be expected to have regular neighborhod service.
Look at the bus routes on
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 14:29 — spiffy1Look at the bus routes on the WCPSS> They note if they are for base students and again, you will be surprised by the actual number of routes ran for base vs. magnet kids
I just looked at several of
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 21:54 — jenmanI just looked at several of the non-AG/GT magnets and there are some with only express for their magnet students. Some of the bus routes are called "magnet base" and looking at the addresses for those stops it appears to be base routes. Look at Wiley Elem. I think all of their buses are base. Joyner has 4 buses--2 are base and 2 are magnet express.
Great...why only those two
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 22:15 — spiffy1Great...why only those two schools? Try looking at Fuller, Hunter, Washington, Powell...Would love to know the cost just to run these buses every day!
The schools you listed are
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 22:21 — jenmanThe schools you listed are all AG or GT schools. Those are the ones with neighborhood busing for magnet students. That was my original point--that it isn't all magnet schools that offer neighborhood service. Just the AG/GT magnets.
I agree that it would be interesting to see the cost associated with that busing. It has been somewhat of a sacred cow. Anytime the topic gets brought up it's very quickly brushed away as not doable. Yet a price tag has never been placed on it. Maybe we decide it's worth it to still have neighborhood service for those schools, but how will we ever be able to come to an informed decision if we don't have the facts? The cost should be made public.
great point Sideburns...but
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 20:54 — spiffy1great point Sideburns...but that's fair right?
Perhaps we need an equitable
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 21:07 — bouncing_rockPerhaps we need an equitable bus ride policy... shall we say 90 minutes for all students?
Or perhaps better than that
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 21:48 — FSandYOUHow about a no bus ride policy unless you are homeless, living in poverty or can prove you do not own a car?
Just think of how many frogs we could buy, paper, pencils, TA's, classroom improvements, teachers, special programs etc... this system could have if they took the stance that the free rides are over!
Great idea - not
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 09:59 — EBDarcyJust think of all the additional traffic conjestion around schools, the nightmare carpool lines would be, and the additional injuries and deaths likely to occur given that school buses are statistically a much safer vehicle. Just think of the parents who would have to quit their jobs because their employees wouldn't understand their need to arrive late and leave early every day (does that argument sound familiar?) and the parents who would need to purchase before and afterschool care. Think about the kids who couldn't play sports or be involved in plays, clubs and other afterschool events if we didn't have activity buses. Just think of the complaints from middle and upper income families who think it's unfair that only poor kids get transportation. Just think of the lawsuits that would likely be filed.
Duck
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 13:56 — FSandYOUI think the sky is right on top of you.
Old habits die hard.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 20:11 — jenmanOld habits die hard.
does anyone know...
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 15:19 — turnerk1Was there any discussion about whether these 470 students have tried to get in other schools and have been denied? I'm just wondering at what rate these families have participated in the lottery.
Didn't they say that 70 of
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 15:27 — jenmanDidn't they say that 70 of those kids were on wait lists? This will be an issue for several years because of all the kids downtown who have been bused for diversity. I bet there are a ton of families with kids in non transition years who have no clue that their school now feeds to one without transportation.
This is the first I've heard
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 10:36 — tropicalgirlThis is the first I've heard anyone from the school system actually say that the new assignment plan would cost 5 to 25 more buses. I'm not surprised. We couldn't get into either of our neighborhood schools, both of which have bus service to our neighborhood. The school we did get into on our choice list will be sending a bus to our neighborhood for possibly one child (I've asked around pretty broadly and can't find anyone but our daughter going to that school from our neighborhood). That can't be cost-effective.
I've heard the 5-25 estimate
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 10:47 — jenmanI've heard the 5-25 estimate for a while now, but it's not something that they talk about a lot so I can see why you missed it.
I'm a bit bothered by Martin wanting to automatically put the low income kids in a RC school Did they ask for something closer and are on waitlists? How many students in the non-F&R nodes ITB are being sent to Stough and Dillard (their RC schools)? Are we making room for them at their proximity schools but not for the F&R families who also want to stay closer to home?
It probably depends on what
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 11:14 — tropicalgirlIt probably depends on what the families asked for in both choice rounds and I have to confess to not entirely understanding what Martin meant by putting them into their RC schools.
Thanks for the clarification on the bus thing - I did totally miss that and could have sworn I heard statements saying that less buses would be needed under the new plan than were needed under the old, diversity plan. I wonder how they came up with the estimate of 5 to 25 and when transportation will be done with this year's bus schedule so we can see what the true number is and the impact on costs.
The staff-developed motion
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 11:38 — KeungHui (author)The staff-developed motion says that they'll offer to put the 470 studetns in one of ther proximity choice list schools. But Martin wanted it to be in the regional choice/achievement choice school because so many of them are from low-performing nodes, He didn't want them to be sent to proxmity schools that would likely be filled with large numbers of low-performing nodes.
The 5 to 25 number was part
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 10:43 — KeungHui (author)The 5 to 25 number was part of the plan presented last fall.