The eight applicants for the Wake County school board vacancy are giving their views on diversity, armed guards in schools, the choice plan, performance pay for teachers, the school construction bond issue and charter schools.
The answers are part of an article in this week's issue of the liberal Independent Weekly, which focused on their views on diversity and armed guards. The diversity responses run the gamut from support to opposition to its use in student assignment.
On one end are these people whose views on diversity seem to be the closest in line to the board majority.
"In the ideal world, socioeconomic balancing is the way to go. ... You want to try to use your assignment plan to keep schools away from high poverty levels, but if you do have schools at that level, ethically, you have to provide the extra resources," said Tom Benton, a former Wake principal and arguably one of the favorites to get the position.
"I don't think we want to create high-poverty schools," said Don Mial. "I just don't think that in the long term we can continue to afford to put a lot of money into any one school."
"I tend to side with the traditional Wake County school model: socioeconomic diversity throughout all schools," said Wade Minter. "Growth in the 2000s and reluctance to spend tax money got us into a bad situation with too much reassignment and not enough stability. On the spectrum, though, I am more supportive of socioeconomic balance than neighborhood schools."
Here are those who say their view of diversity is in "the middle."
"I'm probably more in the middle," said Ben Clapsaddle. "If we have a higher-poverty school, we have to look at what resources we can put there. There may be different solutions. Maybe we bring a charter school into the area to help out. If we are just busing kids out of a high-poverty zone, where is the fairness in that?"
"Generally speaking, I think it's better to move money before you move students," said David Menaker. "I kind of run down the middle. I see some good things from both sides of the argument. What I haven't seen is a good final decision. I'm pretty tired of the petty politics."
The one clear critic is Wendy Ford, which would suggest that the board won't pick her for the position.
"I would first look at putting additional resources into a school," Ford said. "But I would be open to other options. When I hear parents say their children are being bused 45 or 50 minutes each way, that's unacceptable."
According to the article, Ford also says she would consider teacher bonuses as a way to improve underperforming schools, as she did in her former school district.
Shinica Thomas didn't answer the diversity question, but the Indy article notes that "she did make a relevant comment about her children's assignment: "I have one child at Heritage High and another across the county at Ligon Middle. It's really difficult for me as a parent to get across the county to participate in both schools. Our node has been reassigned several times."
Hilda McCullers ducked the diversity question.
"There isn't a short answer," McCullers said. "It's a complicated issue and something I need to study more before I have a definitive answer."
Wake has now uploaded all the applications on the district's website. Click here to view them.
Comments
Benton's response: "Blah,
Fri, 01/11/2013 - 19:00 — jeffrey1Benton's response: "Blah, Blah, Blah... I'm your yes-man... Blah, Blah, Blah."
I'd bet my house that Benton will get the seat.
Yep. He's friends with Hill
Fri, 01/11/2013 - 20:45 — jenmanYep. He's friends with Hill and endorsed him in this last campaign. No brainer.
Even if Benton is appointed,
Fri, 01/11/2013 - 22:23 — woodstockEven if Benton is appointed, he will immediately have to go into campaign mode since that seat us up for election in Oct. He'll be running in a conservative district, so if he has any desire to remain on the board for more than a few months--assuming he is the choice--he just can't follow the lead of folks like Hill, Martin, Evans et al. And, he better not have any connection at all to that Brannon woman.
Good points. It will be
Fri, 01/11/2013 - 22:41 — jenmanGood points. It will be interesting to see what effect the mayors' endorsements have on the election.
Is there any doubt that Tom
Fri, 01/11/2013 - 17:37 — jenmanIs there any doubt that Tom Benton will get the seat? The N&O even did a full article about him in the North Raleigh News.
I'd try not to read too much
Fri, 01/11/2013 - 17:57 — KeungHui (author)I'd try not to read too much into that story. The six last-minute filers came in too late for that reporter's deadline so he focused on the one new applicant he knew of at the time, which was Benton.
Was there an article that
Fri, 01/11/2013 - 18:11 — jenmanWas there an article that big about Ford? I don't remember seeing one but I may have missed it.
In the main paper, we've
Fri, 01/11/2013 - 18:52 — KeungHui (author)In the main paper, we've only mentioned Ford and Benton by name in the Saturday Triangle Politics section and on Monday when Wake released the names of all eight applicants. Online, I wrote longer stories on both Ford and Benton.
The people who work at the community papers are under a lot of pressure to fill their sections. With the holidays, it was a short week so doing a story on Benton was easier to do. Plus, he's relatively well known in Eastern Wake and North Raleigh.
Spin it, Keung!
Mon, 01/14/2013 - 23:21 — Livingthegoodli...So the newspaper, in its infinite wisdom and, perhaps, politically slanted vision, decided to run a large article on a candidate already well known to the community. You suggest that it was because the paper was under time constraints, but I think it's equally likely the paper wants to influence who wins and doesn't want to give the newcomer, whose views are different and conflict with the board majority, an opportunity to win the public's confidence and vote.
As far as spin jobs, Keung, this wasn't one of your better efforts.
You guys have some of the
Tue, 01/15/2013 - 00:24 — KeungHui (author)You guys have some of the wackier conspiracy theories. So you're thinking a reporter at a community newspaper wrote an article about an applicant, which did not appear in the main paper, as part of some attempt by the main paper to back that person? If that was the goal, the article would have appeared in both publications.
not you for sure
Tue, 01/15/2013 - 12:53 — snordoneI personally think you do a great job of balancing the information. but you do have some editors that don't even try to hide their bias - and I am pointing fingers at Ford. His complete refusal to discuss the math placement issue was beyond shameful and unethical. The problem is that the N&O editors don't want to understand the reality of our system, they want to believe their political party.
Don't you think it's deeper
Tue, 01/15/2013 - 14:37 — shearertwDon't you think it's deeper than that? I think the general consensus of the liberal community is they are the "enlightened ones". They are the geniuses in the room while the Reps/Conservatives are a bunch of bigoted, ignorant and/or even self serving rich fat cats either too stupid or too selfish to be "enlightened". As the "enlightened ones", they have the ability of designing a system and/or society that is a near perfect as perfect can be if only they were only given total control. The ONLY reason their policies have failed (for a millennium or 2) is that those bigoted, selfish Conservative types keep getting in their way with all that freedom and limited government stuff. You hear that excuse all the time with regard to the diversity busing failure. "We didn't fund it enough!" "We didn't build enough schools!" "We didn't increase our per pupil funding levels to $16K per student!" "Selfish parents kept getting in the way with all that looking out for their kids best interest stuff!"
To the liberal community, the math placement issue was just a hiccup and should be ignored as it's not really relevant to the big picture of where the "movement" is heading. What they don't realize is that things like the math placement travesty is EXACTLY where that "movement" ends up. History has taught us that lesson time and again. If these people were the "geniuses" they think they are, they would know that. Human beings are no more capable of creating a perfect society through government intervention than they are at creating a perfect, self sustainable ecosystem akin to the Amazon rainforest! Society....people, like rainforests, are simply too complex.
I am a liberal
Wed, 01/16/2013 - 13:44 — snordonebut don't consider myself to be enlightened. The values of the party are my values. I am a Cory Booker democrat, not a Jim Martin democrat. I don't consider the kids in Washington Terrace "Urban Blight," to quote GSIW.
Do I recognize the systemic racism in our educational system? Yes. Can I ignore it? No. They can. Southern democrats are very, very different from their N. Eastern counterparts. And the sad thing is we have history that shows their values. We have a local leadership problem in the democratic party, we have a people problem. But it is not a party problem IMO.But to be honest, you guys have some leadership and people problems too.
I know you call yourself a
Wed, 01/16/2013 - 15:06 — shearertwI know you call yourself a liberal but I think either you or them are straying away from each other based on many of your comments here. Along those lines (and I'm not looking for a fight), what values, specifically, are shared by you and the party? Nationally, the Dem party is not being run by "southern democrats". It is being run by N. Eastern and California Democrats. The values of the National Dem party reflect that so I'm just not sure how that syncs with a southern Democrat because, as you say, they are different.
I am a registered Republican but call myself a Conservative. The two were once one in the same but no anymore. Conservatism isn't "southern" or "northern", it just is what it is because it has core values that do not change by time or geography. That being said, I'm as southern as pecan pie, pronounced pea_can.
Butting in here but I often
Thu, 01/17/2013 - 12:10 — jenmanButting in here but I often find myself in the same boat as Shila. I also think of myself as liberal and a Democrat but I don't agree with all their beliefs or actions. Unions are a big area of disagreement. I think they are more harmful than helpful overall and so very corrupt.
If the GOP would stay out of the bedroom, out of the doctor's office and quit trying to push religion I'd be far more likely to go Republican than Democrat.
...
Thu, 01/17/2013 - 12:47 — SideburnsNicely said.
Hey..what about me? I said
Thu, 01/17/2013 - 13:09 — shearertwHey..what about me? I said it nicely too!
...
Thu, 01/17/2013 - 14:04 — SideburnsYes, you did. :)
I think, however, we need to move away from trying to fit people's opinions into little boxes with labels. I struggled with my "political definition" before I realized I don't need one. I believe what I believe regardless of which party supports/opposes it and I have no apologies for that.
Now, let's talk about gun control.
(Just kidding.)
Nicely said. ;-) and I'm in
Thu, 01/17/2013 - 14:29 — shearertwNicely said. ;-)
and
I'm in full control of my guns.
I think your issues with the
Thu, 01/17/2013 - 12:39 — shearertwI think your issues with the GOP (and I have issues with them too but the way) are largely due to the poor job they do of marketing themselves and defending their positions. They have allowed the Dem Party to define who they are instead of standing up and defining themselves. The vast majority of folks in the GOP don't want to be in your bedroom or your doctor's office or convert you to some religion. I'm actually amazed you said "doctor's office" because Obamacare is the single biggest intrusion into "your doctor's office" in American history! I also have a gun in my bedroom and we can all see where the Dem Party is headed with that.
Now, if you're talking about the Conservative position on gay marriage, abortion or the part that religion plays in setting your core values...well that is a totally separate issue. Do you disagree that there are not valid reasons one may be against gay marriage or abortion based on both religious and logical, scientifically backed reasoning? If you do, I'd be happy to explain those positions and while you may still disagree with them, I believe you will see they sit on solid ground, not just some bigoted, religious zeal.
Yes, I'm talking about gay
Thu, 01/17/2013 - 17:35 — jenmanYes, I'm talking about gay rights, abortion and things like wanting prayer in school. I absolutely respect somebody's right to disapprove of homosexuality, abortion or a religion other than Christianity. It is when those views are pushed on others that I find troubling. If you don't like homosexuality, don't participate in it. If you don't like abortion, then don't get one.
Yes, religion plays a role in setting values but religion and morals are not mutually exclusive. (I imagine that you would agree with this.) I don't think we should have prayer in schools, but I don't have a problem with a valedictorian referencing his or her beliefs in a speech. If that belief guides you, you should absolutely be able to say so. But there is a line where it crosses over from 'everybody can relate to this' to preaching. I guess I live by the golden rule on this. If a person of another religion did the same thing you are doing, would it bother you? Would you be offended or feel uncomfortable? If so, then maybe you should rethink what you're saying or doing.
While I understand the view that we are a country founded by Christians, we are also a country that has never required our citizens to adhere to certain religious beliefs. We have to respect that not everybody has Christian beliefs. Of course there has to be some common sense here. I don't care whether you say Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas and I don't think it's something worth fighting about.
Both parties have let themselves be defined by their more extreme members because that is where the money comes from. It's harder to get moderates fired up and willing to donate lots of time and money.
Again, the vast majority of
Fri, 01/18/2013 - 00:19 — shearertwAgain, the vast majority of the GOP and conservatives are going to agree with 95% percent of what you just said. Woody took care of the abortion issue below. I would just add one more point. At the time of Roe vs Wade, the minimum viability age of a fetus was believed to be about 28 weeks. Therefore, abortions beyond that point were allowed to be regulated by the states. Now, >90% of fetuses born at 28 weeks survive. In fact, each year, more and more fetuses survive at the ages of 23 weeks or so. with increased technology, it will one day almost certainly be possible to save a fetus at any age. So...as Woody states, I dont believe there is anything radical about believing a fetus at any age is a human life worth protecting. To suggest there is something wrong with people who share that view is simply misguided.
You mention gay rights and homosexuality but not gay marriage. I think that is an important distinction. I don't want gay people to be discriminated against in any way. I don't want any laws regarding homosexuality behavior at all. However, that's not the same thing as being against gay marriage. As a society, we have defined marriage as being between an man and woman for a very important reason that goes beyond religion. Marriage between a man and a woman is the bedrock of society. That is the unit that is best for producing and caring for children which is essential to the future of society. That's why the states offer specific incentives to people who choose marriage. You may disagree, but many believe that gay couples are not in the same league as married men and women in that respect and therefore should not be offered the same incentives offered to married men and women. States often off incentives for certain types of action that are believed to be a net benefit to society. The gay marriage movement, contrary to popular belief, is not about being able to "love each other" or whatever....it's about gaining the benefits offered to married couples and adoption. Gay people don't need marriage to love each other and the don't need marriage to gain the benefits of hospital visitation, etc. There are other means of dealing with those issues.
Now, you don't have to but in to these arguments around abortion and gay rights. Roe v Wade is settled law and states regulate the time frame allowed by that law. Gay marriage is also regulated at the state level as it should be. I'm honestly surprised, however, that those issues carry more weight with you than the fact that the Dem Party wants the govt to control EVERY aspect of your healthcare including forcing people to pay for contraception and abortion which is completely against their beliefs. How is that OK with you? How is that not a bigger issue? As someone once said, I'll stay out of your bedroom as long as you stay out of my wallet! In other words, don't make me pay for the behavior you decide to engage in inside your bedroom. Also, the Dem Party has ZERO intention of getting govt spending under control as we storm towards 20 Trillion in debt. How is that NOT a bigger issue with you? That threatens the very existence of the American lifestyle and is a bigger threat to poor people than anything the GOP has ever even considered. Don't you think it's time to consider the big picture and open your mind to why people may disagree, legitimately, with you on those couple of issues. I think the GOP would welcome you and offer an open mind to your views. Bottom line is, the American people have got to stop the Dem Party's attempt to redistribute and remake the US economy into a mass of govt dependency. If we don't stop them, they'll be nothing left to argue about.
Like I said to Woody, I was
Fri, 01/18/2013 - 12:13 — jenmanLike I said to Woody, I was too glib with my comments on abortion. I do want to make clear that I don't think there is anything wrong with people who are against abortion or that they are radical for thinking that. Now of course there *are* anti-abortion radicals but they are a very very very small portion of the pro-lifers. I know a lot of people who are against abortion but I don't know any radicals. You bring up an interesting point about the viability of the fetus now vs back in the 70s. I am pro-choice but as I said to Woody, I struggle with aspects of the issue at times.
You also make a good distinction between gay rights/discrimination and gay marriage. I have no problem with gay people getting the benefits of marriage but I can understand that some are not comfortable with that. Instead of having an amendment defining marriage between man and woman, I wish that instead they would have approached it from a different view. You said there were other ways of dealing with issues like hospital visitation rights. I would have rather seen the GOP take the stance of "We're not going to legalize gay marriage but let's put into law these issues so gay couples have these basic, common sense rights". Defining marriage as between a man and woman didn't do anything positive to help anybody.
I'm also ok with gay adoption but again I don't think that those who oppose it are automatically radicals who hate gays. I grew up with a mom who went through pharmacy school as a divorced, single mother. So not only did I have a mom who worked full time but she worked in a traditionally male profession. While that scenario is not a big deal now, it was very unusual back then. In my gut I would say that the ideal is growing up in a two parent, hetero household but I don't think there is anything wrong with growing up in any stable, loving home. There are too many unhappy 'ideal' families for me to believe that's the only right way to raise kids.
I can understand not wanting the government to pay for abortion but the contraception thing has me a bit baffled. I'd much rather pay for contraception now than pay to take care of a child for 18 years, especially a child born to a mother who isn't equipped emotionally to take care of a kid. I'd also rather pay for contraception that could prevent an unwanted pregnancy that would end in an abortion. I understand the moral argument that unmarried women should abstain from sex in the first place but what about married women? What would people propose they do? Their husbands should wear condoms? They should abstain from sex unless they are trying to get pregnant? (I don't see men being too happy with either of those solutions.) The rhythm method? I know lots of Catholic families who are examples of how well (not) that method works.
I hear the argument so often that if you can't afford to have kids then stop making babies. I generally agree with that. So should poor people not ever have marital sex?
How are the other issues not as important to me? I don't know, they just aren't. I generally agree with the issues you brought up in your last paragraph but I just can't place them higher. I can't do something that I think is morally wrong--denying rights to certain people. I do understand that people can legitimately disagree with me on those issues. I'm ok with that. But it is not like abortion and gay rights are backburner issues for the GOP.
I've always considered myself a Democrat but really I'm disgusted with them too. The turning point for me was the diversity policy arguments. Although Obama and people like Arne Duncan are bringing about some good reforms, the Dem party on the national level still used our issues in Wake for their own selfish purposes instead of recognizing what is really happening to our low income and minority kids. Or admitting that it is really the elite power core who are benefiting from the diversity policy. That it was done with them foremost in mind and not low income and minority families.
I'm enjoying this discussion.
Jenman, Do you seriously
Mon, 01/21/2013 - 18:15 — shearertwJenman,
Do you seriously birth-control and gay marriage above government spending in the economy? Or even on equal ground? Really? That's just hard for me to understand.
Contraception aids of all
Mon, 01/21/2013 - 10:06 — shearertwContraception aids of all kinds are already available to "poor" people not to mention they are generally very inexpensive. That is not the issue. The issue is Obamacare forcing private insurers to cover such things even if it goes against their beliefs. That's where we part ways.
I agree with most of your
Thu, 01/17/2013 - 21:55 — woodstockI agree with most of your comments, but your dismissal of abortion ("If you don't like abortion, then don't get one.") as something that one can just agree or disagree with indicates a lack of perspective.
The subject of abortion is not about behavior one finds objectionable or not, it is the basis for a discussion on what it means to be a human being and when life begins.
Those who oppose abortion do so because they believe life begins at conception and that every abortion is another innocent life cut short merely for convenience sake. That is a very valid argument and one that I've never heard sufficiently refuted.
Even taking religion out of the picture, abortion is still reprehensible and no one is required to respect those who engage in it. I know I don't.
I was too glib with my
Fri, 01/18/2013 - 10:52 — jenmanI was too glib with my response on the abortion issue and for that I apologize. I do think there are valid arguments against abortion and even though I am pro-choice I struggle with it as well. I wish that both sides would discuss the issue without the extreme rhetoric.
To clarify, I don't struggle
Mon, 01/21/2013 - 20:28 — woodstockTo clarify, I don't struggle with it at all. I am 100% in the Pro-Life camp.
It is very hard for me to understand how someone can be uncertain, yet remain Pro-Abortion. In my view even a sliver of uncertainty is sufficient to want to preserve life... the alternative is just too horrific. Why risk being wrong about something so important?
opportunity for every
Wed, 01/16/2013 - 23:20 — snordoneAmerican regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation.
It is not a matter of straying in my opinion, it is a matter of really understanding what is going on. In 2005 I believed in the diversity policy, it sounded all good to my liberal self. I followed policy 6200, I allowed my kids to be bused to our 5th most proximate ES. I volunteered. Then I sat on the district 3 BAC and it was all over. I started to look at the data and saw what we were really doing to our ED kids, and I started to see my kid's Title I ES crash from constant, never ending reassignments. And I naively thought that if my party really knew what was going on they would be horrified and they would stop it. But they were not and they did not. They denied it because it did not fit in with their "preventing urban blight" focus.
I feel like I can identify with democrats like Cory Booker, I can not identify with Bev Purdue.
Well...I think Conservatives
Thu, 01/17/2013 - 08:50 — shearertwWell...I think Conservatives are 100% aligned with you in your first comment. There is certainly a terrible history of racism and bigotry in this country but that history is in no aligned with Conservatism (not saying you said it was). If anything, the Democtratic Party has a far worse record with regard to race, etc. than the Rep Party, including the NC Dem Party. There is no doubt that the modern Dem Party has pandered to specific races and genders over the years but I think you really have to ask yourself how genuine that pandering is? Conservatism lives by core principals that apply to all equally so pandering to specific racial groups or genders or religions is completely against that philosophy. If we look at the results objectively, all that pandering has not worked out so well. We've spent trillions on poverty and have seen no change in poverty rates. In fact, there's a lot of evidence that the war on poverty has hurt groups like AA leading to cultural degradation and trapping generations on government dependency. Of course, government dependency has worked in favor of the party that created it, so again, you must ask yourself...how genuine is all that pandering by the Dem party? Indefinitely extended unemployment payment is another example as several studies have shown the only leads to extending unemployment.
I respect you immensely for being one of the few self described liberals to be intellectually honest with regard to diversity busing. I completely get why it was appealing in the beginning but, like ALL large scale government interventions, it has/had unforeseen, unintended consequences that were worse than the problem it was trying to solve. That's why I use the ecosystem example before. Humans live in a complex ecosystem we call society. It cannot be engineered by government which is made up of people who are not smart enough to understand or predict the negative consequences if their actions.
Conservatives do have solutions, based on fundamental principals, that provide opportunity for everyone....not just the rich or the middle class or men or women or white people or black people or Hispanics or gay people or straight people but everyone.
Even when taking the extreme
Mon, 01/21/2013 - 20:37 — woodstockEven when taking the extreme cynical view of free-market conservationism, it works for everyone... they (we) want more people making more money to fuel capitalism and prosperity. No one wins when poverty and income disparity increase... not even the rich.
OK, here's the run down of
Fri, 01/11/2013 - 15:30 — shearertwOK, here's the recap from the BOE majority's perspective.
Benton is the likely winner. His "in an ideal world" statement was a clear message to the socialist on the BOE that he's down with it and ready to ride that train to utopia! The BOE majority will undoubtedly ask him to jump on board. The only weakness was he said something about added resources to low income schools....that may frighten Martin and Evans a bit opening the door for McCullers (more on that later),
Mial's statement, "I just don't think that in the long term we can continue to afford to put a lot of money into any one school." could be an accidental shot across the bow for the magnet programs so he's out.
Minter was on the right track until he said, "too much reassignment and not enough stability.", so his application has already hit the garbage can.
Clapsaddle mentioned charter schools in a positive light so his application is resting somewhere under Minter's and may have a few wrinkles in it after Evans balled it up and tossed it in.
Menaker just said all the wrong things for this BOE so Jim is probably resting his coffee mug on his application and it has a big 'ol coffee ring on it.
Ford, who is clearly the best candidate, should start considering her run for the position in the fall bc she's not going to be tied up with attending BOE meetings.
Thomas- I'm not sure if she heard the question or not but she seems to have talking about reassignments in a negative light and suggested parent's participation should be considered so her application lies very close to Minter's and Clapsaddle's.
McCullers-what can I say. She appears to not have a clue (who seriously considers running for BOE in WCPSS without having some knowledge or a position on socioeconomic diversity). You certainly don't have to be BOE member to learn about such things. So she has an outside shot....let's call her the dark horse in this race. Evan's and Martin could see her as mailable vs Benton who seemed to have some ideas of his own, certainly a negative in the eyes of Evans and Martin.
Ford the best !
Fri, 01/11/2013 - 23:06 — Solon7745-50 minutes on a bus is unacceptable - it seems she has not been paying attention. The 40-50 minutes on a bus is routine and has nothing to do with diversity.
I would look to put additional resources in the schools - sure she would. Since her old district spends $16k per student. Again she hasn't been paying attention. There is no money.
Her other comment to give bonuses to teachers. Sure that is a proven solution. I can see teachers purposely holding back on doing their job just waiting for that bonus because so many people go into teaching for the money.
I am sure she is a nice lady and means well, but her experience on the board of 9 serving 4,000 students is underwhelming. 9 board members serving 4,000 students - that has to tell you something.
So, essentially you just
Sat, 01/12/2013 - 11:03 — woodstockSo, essentially you just want to see another fellow GSIW member on the school board... interestingly, most of you aren't nice or well-meaning.
Fellow GSIW
Sat, 01/12/2013 - 15:55 — Solon77I have no idea what you are talking about. I am not part of that circle. Unlike you I do not blindly follow a party line.
Right... and no one in
Mon, 01/14/2013 - 20:11 — woodstockRight... and no one in prison is guilty.
...
Sat, 01/12/2013 - 16:51 — SideburnsNobody claims to be part of GSIW. I don't blame you.
Yes...of this bunch, Ford is
Sat, 01/12/2013 - 00:49 — shearertwYes...of this bunch, Ford is by far the best (and least likely) pick.
What's with the $16k comment? That is almost always meaningless without context. What's the COL where that district is, what's the average teacher salary including the cost of benefits? Isn't she from a district in a north eastern state? A lot of those states sink a ton of money into teacher retirement plans. Are you sure that's not part of the cost? I heard an interesting explanation about the real cost of a teacher's retirement plan. If a teacher can retire with full benefits and full salary after 30 years (or less in some cases), that's like having retired with $3 million in the bank. So essentially, we're paying our teachers to be millionaires at retirement. I make a fair amount more than a teacher and have a lot more education, but I'd have to save a substantial amount of my salary at a pretty aggressive annual return rate to accumulate $3 million after 30 years. For those early years in my 20's, there is no way I could have saved that much. At this point, it's nearly impossible for me to retire at 53 or 55 like a teacher with $3 million in the bank. Did you know that a teachers or state employees only have to work in the system for 10 years to retire at 65 with full salary and benefits? No wonder we're going broke! No private company could come close to something like that. And I though my measly little 401k match was nice. Guess I should just quit my job at 55 and become a teacher. That way I don't need to save more my own retirement.
$16k Comment
Sat, 01/12/2013 - 15:51 — Solon77COL in Churchville/Chili NY is lower than RTP. It so happens that they believe in paying teachers a living wage. My wife's grandparents lived their. But if you want to discount cost, the student/teacher ratio in Wake County is 20% higher than Chili, NY.
With regards to retirement plans, my guess is they have a defined benefit pension plan. You remember those days ? Anyway, the value of the plan is not deposited into an account. The issue with the plan is that when it was promised as part of the benefit the life expectancy was much lower and the payouts were not as great. So the benefit was an offer of something without having to pay it out. My father in law was a teacher and he has drawn around $400,000 in pension since retiring 9 years ago. Much more than he ever paid in. The again there are those that died and didn't collect a dime. The funny thing is he was complaining about taxes going up and I told him someone had to pay for his pension. Another staunch Republican expecting something for nothing.
Quit at 55 and become a teacher. What you are forgetting is that after 10 years of service you are only making $30k a year. So the pension is not really that much.
I am sure Ford is a nice lady, but we don't need a ride down memory lane with June Cleaver.
Given the size
Um...
Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:22 — Bob_SconceWe also don't need another ride back to 2005.
The school district needs reform desperately, and part of that means that it needs new blood. I suspect the district could learn a lot from those smaller Northern districts.
We are in a new era. In a decade, we could have over 100 charter schools IN WAKE COUNTY. The district cannot afford to continue the same thinking it had when the barriers to leaving were much higher.
I checked out
Sat, 01/12/2013 - 23:29 — shearertwI checked out Churchville/Chili and it says their PPS is $13749, not $16k. Why do you have to be so misleading? Here's another little tidbit you forgot to mention. The percent F&R is only 6.3%. So what does that mean with regard to PPS? Well...it means there's more tax payers per student so the bill is spread around and not dumped on one segment of the population. It also appears that they fund schools with propert taxes, not income taxes which means the broaden their tax base even further. You want more money for schools in NC? Eliminate the income tax and fund the schools and other public services with property taxes. Everyone pays property taxes in one form or another. We don't need to raise taxes, we need to get more tax payers.
As for my retirement plans, with my advanced degrees, I'll be making a lot more than 30k and I'll have my summers off! Perhaps I can work at Home Depot during the summer. I'd have to make several hundred thousand dollars a year from the age of 55 - 65 to actually save enough money to withdraw an additional 30-45k from my 401k. That is totally insane that we would give anyone a full pension with health benefits for the rest of their lives after 10 years of service. We don't need to raise taxes to pay for that... we need to stop it. Remember, it's not just for teachers, it's any state employee! Some of those folks are going to draw well over 100k for the rest of their lives. Ridiculous!
Ford is the best candidate by far
Sat, 01/12/2013 - 21:42 — AntiochIn looking at the candidates' applications, Ford by far has the best qualifications to lead. The issue here is transferable skills. Regardless of the size of the district she led in NY, she still had to deal with budget constraints, growth, hiring superintendents, partnering with state and community leaders, getting bonds passed, etc. She was elected 7 times by that community - SEVEN TIMES in two decades - who on our Board could ever come close to having the trust and confidence of our community like that? I believe what she says about having an open mind, being nonpartisan and focusing on issues and building working relationships from the start. I'd rather have a proven, trusted leader on the board that studies the issues and can help build consensus. Meanwhile, Benton never led anything larger than a school. I also like Ford's business experience and her service in education at the regional and state levels. As a Democrat with the mindset of the board majority, Benton has little chance of getting elected in the fall in District 1. Our board members need to consider the sustainability of the person they choose this month for the sake of stability. Ford led a district for two decades. Benton led a few schools. If Ford doesn't get the seat in January, I sure hope she runs for it in the fall. I'm certain she'd win it.
Where have you been living?
Sat, 01/12/2013 - 00:36 — nancyncBack in the mid to late 90's, bus rides were routinely longer than 45 minutes. I drove a high school route that took longer, I also drove a middle school route that took that long. And these were for traditional schools.
...
Fri, 01/11/2013 - 23:08 — SideburnsSpoken like a true GSIW'er.
The Independent thinks they should consider the applicant's race. There's another strike against Ford.
The whole charade is comical.
nicely done, I had a good
Fri, 01/11/2013 - 22:56 — loriacnicely done, I had a good giggle over this.
Word on the street-
Fri, 01/11/2013 - 17:40 — shank56Word on the street- McCullers is a retired Broughton teacher, whatever that may mean to the BOE
Where Are The Questions...
Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:25 — JanisTangoon academics, education and what they feel is needed to make our schools and children more successful.
Those questions do not matter with this rag
Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:45 — FSandYOUor this school board OR anyone who will be placed in a seat on this board.
This board's entire being is built around only caring about diversity, skewing the truth about our schools, keeping the magnets in control of the real education and shouting, bullying and cursing the public, and fellow board members, on every other level.