Some school board members are taking a field trip today for a firsthand look at the career and technical education program.
From 7:45 a.m. to 3 p.m., board members will visit Middle Creek, Athens Drive, Wake Forest-Rolesville and Leesville Road high schools. Among the board members who may attend are Rosa Gill, Patti Head, Anne McLaurin, Lori Millberg and Horace Tart.
The trip was pushed by Tart, who is expected to make CTE (what used to be called vocational education) a campaign issue. He's been urging the school district to set up a magnet high school that would focus on vocational skills for kids who don't intend to go to college.
Whether it will help Tart against Cathy Truitt or any other challengers remains to be seen.
Comments
I can't see this BOE setting up a successful magnet CTE HS
Mon, 05/04/2009 - 09:28 — FalcIt would likely conflict with the "diversity" policy. It seems a disproportionate percent of lower academic achieving students and/or lower income may apply and a disproportionate percent of higher academic achieving students and/or NED would not apply. The "balance" would be off and it would likely be a Title I school, which they do not want, unless they deny many of the students who could really benefit from the program. Therefore, I do not see it being successful because in WCPSS it's not about individual students' needs, it's about "healthy schools."
See, I think the
Mon, 05/04/2009 - 10:24 — user1234See, I think the opposite. "Healthy schools" are all about places where teachers want to work, kids are excelling, and there is no community stigma.
A selective VT school magnet would draw a wide range of kids and develop a sprit de corp similar to schools like Enloe enjoy. ED kids might apply more than NED mostly because they don't have the option to go to college.
Remember that plumbers and electricians are making almost as much as engineers now a days without the college debt so this is a valuable option for kids with limited resources.
I don't disagree with your points
Mon, 05/04/2009 - 12:31 — FalcHowever, WCPSS has not defined "healthy schools" as "places where teachers want to work, kids are excelling, and there is no community stigma." They have defined it as <40% F&R and <25% of students scoring below grade level on EOGs. So what to do when >40% of applicants to the magnet CTE are F&R and/or >25% of applicants are scoring below grade level on EOGs? Deny them entrance to what they need? Do you see the potential conflict using their defination?
Yes, I know how financially and personally successful people without college degrees can be. I'm related to some, have worked for some and live by some. I've never had a "college or bust" mentality. I've pointed that out previously and I think it would be great if they would create the program in the manner that focuses on the students' needs, but that has not been WCPSS's M.O.
"ED kids might apply more than NED mostly because they don't have the option to go to college." Why don't ED kids have that option? I know ED kids that went to college. Do you mean fewer of them have that option because fewer have had the same academic support at home and/or they have been labeled as expected to be low-achieving and incapable and it became a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Falc, personally if KIPP is
Mon, 05/04/2009 - 13:31 — user1234Falc, personally if KIPP is as good as you say (you are the one?) and we ended up with all black ITB schools sending those kids to Duke I don't think anyone would complain except the OTB parents trying to get in the program. WCPSS "diversity policy" is just one of many ways to get to "healthy schools" but not the only way. If we eventually separate into black / white or rich / poor schools that fight it out academically, I think people will be sad but not outraged. They only get outraged when one option is inferior to the other.
"I know ED kids that went to
Mon, 05/04/2009 - 13:22 — user1234"I know ED kids that went to college. Do you mean fewer of them have that option because fewer have had the same academic support at home and/or they have been labeled as expected to be low-achieving and incapable and it became a self-fulfilling prophecy? "
My experience is that college begins with an expectation and a promise. My parents and my wife's parent just assumed we would go to college like we assume kids will go to high school after middle school. For ED there is no expectation from parents, peers or teachers. Second is the promise resources will be available when the tiem comes. Many wealth parents fail to save but have the resources to mortage their home, etc. to pay the bill but ED don't have that opportunity. This year there is a big advertising push to get ED to just fill out the FASTA forms so they can at least see what they qualify for ... in the past ED were so discouraged they did not even submit an application and left a lot of funding used.
All schools should have a good variety of CTE courses
Sat, 05/02/2009 - 15:53 — momof2goodboysFor a lot of kids, taking a CTE course introduces them to something that they they are interested in and may be the key to their future for the first time! Like what has already been said, not all kids can or want to go to college. I don't see these courses as getting them ready for a career so much as giving all kids a chance to try something they may have never gotten the chance to try otherwise and probably never will anywhere else. If you are not artsy, or very book-smart, there really aren't many other electives or whatever you want to call them available. Having several vocational magnets may be ok, as long as all of the HS have a good variety of quality 'techical' type classes.
I disagree
Sat, 05/02/2009 - 08:52 — user1234“CTE must be at every school - it contains the majority of elective classes at most high schools. Also, CTE is for ALL students, college bound or not”
See, I disagree … we treat vocational education as an elective like drama or chorus. For the plumbers, electricians, medical assistants, and auto mechanics vocational education is a lifetime of employment – a way to make a decent living without going to college.
We need to treat vocational education not as an elective but as a destination, a career. People don’t take Calculus, or Chemistry as an elective to fill out their free time. I think it is time to give vocational students the same concentration and respect we give college bound students which includes their own facilities, school, curriculum and teachers. As long as college graduate decision makers keep thinking everyone wants to follow in their footsteps and emulate them and not realize not everyone is cut out for college, we will continue to have this vocational limbo where it is an half hearted / funded elective that kids take when Chorus is filled up.
“I believe the reason behind this CTE tour is that our BOE members do not even know about all of the amazing programs offered in WCPSS.”
I agree
CTE is not vocational education
Sat, 05/02/2009 - 14:01 — jmosterYou missed the point - CTE courses are not only vocational courses, they include many electives like computer programming, marketing, medical science, etc. Calculus is also an elective course (although not CTE) - it's not required for a NC Diploma. Not every CTE program needs to be at every school, but some CTE courses must at at every school.
Many current CTE programs do prepare students for careers - they don't necessarily need to be at separate schools to do this. CTE programs also prepare students for college and include work-based learning opportunities that develop students into productive employees. Most students will be employees eventually - after high school or after college. All students need to learn these skills.
I don't know that separating non-college bound students into a separate school is the best idea. Also, it's usually the parents that expect their kids to go to college. Schools do their best to provide for the UNC bound, the Wake Tech bound and the career bound. CTE courses are funded very well thanks to federal funding specifically for CTE.
I understand your point
Sat, 05/02/2009 - 21:06 — user1234I understand your point now. While having an introduction to many things is good introduction for kids I still think we need to make sure kids not going to college (>50%) are employable right out of HS. They should be able to start work the day after graduation working for a plumber, electrician, contractor, etc. with useable skills and not just a passing knowledge.
CTE
Fri, 05/01/2009 - 18:41 — jmosterCTE must be at every school - it contains the majority of elective classes at most high schools. Also, CTE is for ALL students, college bound or not. ALL students take CTE courses, this includes AP students, UNC bound students, even merit scholars. This is why it is not called vocational education anymore.
What WCPSS could do is have CTE centers that house programs that are expensive to run and/or do not have enough students at one school for it to run. Regional CTE centers would be best. Students could attend their base school for core classes and the CTE center for specialty areas. The CTE center could also offer core classes and could act as a magnet for some students - but still allow students from other schools to benefit from their programs. One CTE magnet school in a system of this size is not the answer. Mr. Tart needs to do additional research on this topic.
I believe the reason behind this CTE tour is that our BOE members do not even know about all of the amazing programs offered in WCPSS.
This will be an interesting
Fri, 05/01/2009 - 16:35 — user1234This will be an interesting policy discussion. On the one hand you have the argument that centralizing a single vocational school would be more efficient. Today, it is expensive to equip all the schools teaching auto repair. In fact, Apex had to beg and borrow from local shops to get the program restarted after all the equipment was sold off when the program was previously cancelled. So, efficient use of current, expensive equipment would suggest one central campus. On the other hand is the argument to decentralize to minimize the transportation impact and make the offering more equitable and available. For me, I think one central campus would be best. I would like to see the Vocational school be like Enloe where the most serious kids attend. I think putting a sprinkling of auto repair classed to introduce kids to the subject does not get them to be employable … sort of like taking newspaper or yearbook but not having the skills to work for the N&O. I would like to see vocational kids go through 10th grade at their local school. They would take a test to determine their interest and ability for admission. Than they would spend 11th and 12th grade at the vocational school with the expectation they would be fully employable (e.g. licenses, tests, etc.) as apprentices when they graduated. I would probability build a new campus ITB and have express buses come in from each quadrant of the area. Note some kids travel 26 miles to attend Enloe which shows what a quality program can do. I don’t know what you would do about activities like football … participate at local school or vocational school? Personally, I would rather have plumbing experience than football experience coming out of HS.
Knightdale Parent--CTE does
Fri, 05/01/2009 - 12:23 — jenmanKnightdale Parent--CTE does exist in each high school, but the courses offered vary. I think that only 2 or 3 HS offer 'auto shop'--Broughton for sure and I think that Apex just added it.
I definitely agree with your concern that if its a magnet, the acceptance process will be discriminatory just like the current system.
My old high school had the 'Career Center' that I'm pretty sure drew kids from all the school systems in the county. The kids did their 'basic' coursework (math, english, etc) at their regular high school and then went to the career center for half the day for vo-tech classes.
I'd love to see a CTE high school in each part of the county where ANY kid who wants to take those classes can go. Of course that wouldn't fit with their 'diversity' policy so they'll end up picking and choosing who to allow in.
CTE should not be a magnet!
Fri, 05/01/2009 - 09:48 — KnightdaleParentIf this is pushed as a magnet option, the BOE will control who gets in and we know that they are so careful to pick the "right schools" to let students come from. CTE should exist in every school.
Another possibility is to have the students use the Wake Tech campus since they already have the facilities for CTE.
Where is Ron? I thought
Fri, 05/01/2009 - 09:19 — user1234Where is Ron?
I thought Vocational education was his issue. Didn't he get everyone to travel to GA to see their program? He is retired and could not be that busy. I am disappointed that he missed this opportunity to push vocational education.
Horace Tart
Fri, 05/01/2009 - 09:42 — Eric_BNo. Horace Tart has been advocating for a CTE vocational education program, not Ron.
Tart self serving
Sat, 05/02/2009 - 11:13 — MomknowsbestFrom what I've gathered, Tart is self serving. He's a developer with parcels of land in Fuquay Varina. Of course he'll be pushing for cabinet-making course in vocational schools. He is one of those with conflict of interests.
Conflict ... My thought ...
Sat, 05/02/2009 - 13:24 — user1234Conflict ... My thought ... we can live with it to get vocational training for kids ... putting them on the streets with a HS diploma and no chance of going to or paying for college is cruel. Tart won't be around forever but kids graduating now have another 40 years and they need the means to support a family now.
Tart won't be around come next year!
Sun, 05/03/2009 - 00:05 — g88ky07Count on it!
you are right
Fri, 05/01/2009 - 10:03 — user1234http://blogs.newsobserver.com/wakeed/georgia-on-their-minds
No votes for Horace
Fri, 05/01/2009 - 09:08 — g88ky07just because he wants to push "CTE" as a calling card! You've done TOO MUCH WRONG for this to matter at this point!
Sure CTE would be a good thing, no one would argue that, but 1 school with the program doesn't give you a free ride for another term.
I vote NO to the same ole same ole for District 2!