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The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? Will the new student assignment plan be a hybrid of the last two models or primarily be a return to the use of busing for diversity? Who will replace Tony Tata as the new superintendent of the state's largest district? How will voters react to a likely request in 2013 to borrow potentially more than $1 billion to build and renovate schools?

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Tony Tata to ask school board to adopt Algebra I placement policy

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Here's a quick recap of today's news conference with Wake County Superintendent Tony Tata with more to come later.

Tata said he'll ask the school board to adopt a new policy saying that middle school students should be enrolled in Algebra I if they're projected to have a 70 percent chance of success by EVAAS. Tata said the new policy would only allow professional judgment to be used to place students in Algebra I and not to keep them out.

The use of professional judgment to exclude students from Algebra I has been a contentious issue.

Tata said enrollment in Algebra I is projected to hit 6,000 students this fall, compared to 4,500 this past school year and 3,000 in the 2009-10 school year. Even with the increase in enrollment this past school year, Tata focused on how scores essentially stayed the same and didn't drop dramatically as some feared would take place.

UPDATE

School board vice chairman John Tedesco said he asked staff to draft the new policy following his dissatisfaction over the Algebra I presentations at the last ED task force meeting.

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This is possibly a questionable and rushed move...

I fear that General Tata's decision based on Tedesco's push (apparently) may have some adverse consequences. First it disrespects the professional judgment of educators and gives priority to statistical projections far removed from the day-to-day realities in classrooms that teachers may be aware of. Tedesco and Tata's move is somewhat disrespectful as it implies, or even declares, teachers are incapable of making professional decisions as they are inherently "racist" and/or have "low expectations".

I suspect that it may be highly inappropriate to push/force/place some students to take advanced math courses prematurely because of what a far removed statistical software program projects should happen. Yes, institutional racism and bias may exist in many facets of our daily lives, but forcing excess rigor on some students because of what computer software projects ironically may actually increase inequality, ie. set some, or more, students up for failure. Tata refers to some recent data but discounts a variety or variables and assumes certain correlations that may or may not exist. I would think a longitudinal study beyond one year (I'm alluding to Tata's point that more students took Algebra 1 last year with overall performance flatlining, but not declining) is needed before our GOP led school board decides to block teacher judgment in favor of what a computer software program projects.

We should recall that in recent years high school graduation has been on the increase in North Carolina. I fear that Tata and Tedesco's moves to remove teachers from determining student placement in favor of computer software projections may increase the WCPSS high school dropout rate in the long term. Some students rushed prematurely into advanced math courses may be demoralised and drop out as a result. Isn't that something we should be very concerned about too? I hope I'm wrong on this one! I would think there are other options available to increase student placement in advanced math courses that do not handcuff our teachers' professional judgment. For example, couldn't Tata and the board instead provide more rigorous training/professional development on the issue for teachers and their principals?

Paula, "Independent, Fair & Speaking Up for MY Kids."

professional development has been discussed

in the form of Project bright ideas, the ED task force hosted the researchers who started the project. This project does not sell anything - books, software.. just the training of teachers to understand that demographics don't define intelligence. Both JT and Tata are interested in Project bright idea for the R schools. Beyond that, there are multiple schools that have been placing children with near perfect results for years. E&R will not promote those schools nor share their success with other prinicpals.

Then there are schools like Martin MS - 25% of the school population is Black, but yet there was not a single Black or Hispanic child who took the Algebra I EOC. How can that be? Are all the minority kids at Martin not that bright, but the minority kids at East Garner, WFRMS and WMMS smarter???

Lurker is right, we need to save your post as an example of pre-reform mindset.

Martin Middle School - Ligon also - criminal response

Holy COW!  Speaking of pristine examples of racist and classist practices! Martin MS LOCKED DOWN in response to last year's dictates to use EVAAS.

The DPI website shows us more examples of this - see  accrpt.ncpublicschools.org/app/2011/disag/

And, of course, it is NO SURPRISE that these discriminatory, exclusionary, racist practices are strongest at the feeder schools for the "best" high schools.  This machine is alive and well.

Look at the comparable numbers for Ligon - another middle school feeding children (ha! there's a pun!) to Enloe High School.  How did Ligon respond last year?  They have more White students taking the Algebra EOC than were even in 8th grade Algebra. That means they apparently accelerated the number of white students taking 7th grade Algebra while they kept the numbers of minority students in 8th grade Algebra at about the same as previously.  They know who they work for.

So these are CRYSTAL CLEAR EXAMPLES of what the Raleigh News and Observer calls a CATEGORY B issue.  Not important enough to cover in a big daily paper.

Every once in a while I catch my breath and realize how shocked I should be that we have grown COMPLETELY USED TO THE FACT that the newpapers and television stations of the much vaunted Research Triangle are openly "on the other side" of this issue - and so enmeshed in local petty politics that they have WILLFULLY ignored this and that they will eat children alive to maintain their political alignment.

I guess when they get the green light from the local Democratic powers that be there will be a sudden expose of this ancient story.

Completely use to the fact......

And you will skew the facts to your political agenda as well.  The criteria for Algebra I placement based on Evass 70% probability of success. Last I checked it didn't matter the minority status.  Ligon placed 81% of those eligible. Martin 76% - still some work to do.   So let's talk about Apex - 54%, Fuquay - 45%, Holly Ridge - 40%, Salem - 52%  - all of these schools a full 20-30 pts below the district average - now that is criminal !   I could not access the link you posted - but I would guess Apex, Fuquay, Salem, and Holly Ridge are not doing the minority students any favors. 

 

 

 

 

Table 6c:  Placement Rates for 70+ students, grade 8

 

 

 

Placed

 

 

 

School1011

Data

No

Yes

Grand Total

8

Apex Middle

n

120

139

259

 

 

%

46.33%

53.67%

100.00%

 

Carnage Middle

n

60

109

169

 

 

%

35.50%

64.50%

100.00%

 

Carroll Middle

n

14

93

107

 

 

%

13.08%

86.92%

100.00%

 

Centennial Campus Middle

n

15

78

93

 

 

%

16.13%

83.87%

100.00%

 

Daniels Middle

n

71

180

251

 

 

%

28.29%

71.71%

100.00%

 

Davis Drive Middle

n

110

166

276

 

 

%

39.86%

60.14%

100.00%

 

Dillard Drive Middle

n

110

103

213

 

 

%

51.64%

48.36%

100.00%

 

Durant Road Middle

n

78

199

277

 

 

%

28.16%

71.84%

100.00%

 

East Cary Middle

n

59

108

167

 

 

%

35.33%

64.67%

100.00%

 

East Garner Middle

n

9

156

165

 

 

%

5.45%

94.55%

100.00%

 

East Millbrook Middle

n

21

149

170

 

 

%

12.35%

87.65%

100.00%

 

East Wake Middle

n

33

138

171

 

 

%

19.30%

80.70%

100.00%

 

Fuquay-Varina Middle

n

97

78

175

 

 

%

55.43%

44.57%

100.00%

 

Heritage Middle

n

218

139

357

 

 

%

61.06%

38.94%

100.00%

 

Holly Grove Middle

n

71

106

177

 

 

%

40.11%

59.89%

100.00%

 

Holly Ridge Middle

n

148

98

246

 

 

%

60.16%

39.84%

100.00%

 

Leesville Road Middle

n

92

153

245

 

 

%

37.55%

62.45%

100.00%

 

Ligon Middle

n

40

167

207

 

 

%

19.32%

80.68%

100.00%

 

Longview

 

None

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lufkin Road Middle

n

172

107

279

 

 

%

61.65%

38.35%

100.00%

 

Martin Middle

n

54

172

226

 

 

%

23.89%

76.11%

100.00%

 

Mills Park Middle

n

76

155

231

 

 

%

32.90%

67.10%

100.00%

 

Moore Square Middle

n

14

57

71

 

 

%

19.72%

80.28%

100.00%

 

Mt. Vernon

n

11

6

17

 

 

%

64.71%

35.29%

100.00%

 

North Garner Middle

n

127

92

219

 

 

%

57.99%

42.01%

100.00%

 

Reedy Creek Middle

n

72

79

151

 

 

%

47.68%

52.32%

100.00%

 

River Oaks Middle

n

8

2

10

 

 

%

80.00%

20.00%

100.00%

 

Salem Middle

n

138

145

283

 

 

%

48.76%

51.24%

100.00%

 

Wakefield Middle

n

122

160

282

 

 

%

43.26%

56.74%

100.00%

 

Wendell Middle

n

74

84

158

 

 

%

46.84%

53.16%

100.00%

 

West Cary Middle

n

23

149

172

 

 

%

13.37%

86.63%

100.00%

 

West Lake Middle

n

173

141

314

 

 

%

55.10%

44.90%

100.00%

 

West Millbrook Middle

n

60

115

175

 

 

%

34.29%

65.71%

100.00%

 

WF-Rolesville Middle

n

96

154

250

 

 

%

38.40%

61.60%

100.00%

 

Zebulon Middle

n

2

96

98

 

 

%

2.04%

97.96%

100.00%

8 n

 

 

2588

4073

6661

8 %

 

 

38.85%

61.15%

100.00%

Total n

 

 

3912

9917

13829

Total %

 

 

28.29%

71.71%

100.00%

 

 

 

 

 

 

The link

The link works. You may have to type in http:// first.  My computer does it automatically. 

This is the data for last year's EOGs and EOCs.  The question is how can Ligon have 128 White 8th graders but 141 White kids taking the Algebra 1 EOC?  The only way I can see that happening is if they are moving kids up during 7th grade.  I don't think this is a political issue at all.  Placement needs to be consistent at all schools.  If some schools are moving 7th graders into Algebra 1, I have real concerns about this.

I agree that there are many schools that are not placing all of their qualified students into 8th grade Algebra.  I'm glad to see the movement to establish objective criteria for this placement.  I just hope we don't have a problem that leads us to have to establish criteria for placement into Algebra 1 in 7th grade. 

The Link - Thanks

Thank you for the tip on the link. The data proves as I had suspected with the schools I noted above - criminal indeed. 

With regards to Ligon - yes there are a lot of 7th and even some 6th graders taking Algebra I - my daughter included.  So how did she get there - scored 99% on the 5th grade Iowa basics.  She is slated to take Geometry in 8th grade as are a lot of her classmates. 

I agree placement needs to be consistent - which is why I am baffled by the low performance of the schools I noted above and the lack of outrage by the parents in this district. 

Interestingly if we were in a Northern District  this would never come to light as each town does their own thing. 

 

In all fairness

I know of two 8th grade students at Wakefield MS that took Honor Geometry at Wakefield HS. From what I understand the parents had to push a bit to allow it to happen, but it happened. Both the children were AG identified students. But I do know it was the parents, not the school that drove this and neither of the parents were well connected.

 It seems a bit wrong though to let 6th graders take Algebra 1 since they will still need a certain amount of high school math credit to graduate. Those students would have to skip a year of math to still allow them to get enough math credits in high school to meet state requirements since middle school work does not count in my understanding toward those requirements. Even for an AG student, having a whole year without math is not a good idea.

Wrong to take Algebra I in 6th grade

Why is it wrong ?  If the kid is qualified then why not, they could be the next Einstein.   I am surprised to see you support holding kids back.

Interesting...

I know two kids who scored that high on the math part of the ITBS, but were not offered the ability to take Algebra in 6th grade.  The district appears to be working well for magnet students; not so much for the rest.

...

And what's this about taking the Iowa again in 5th grade? Never heard of that. I thought only those 3rd graders who scored well on the CogAT got to take the Iowa -- once.

So...

The school administers it automatically in the 3rd grade.  As I understand it, you can request in the 5th grade if your kid isn't then in the AG program.

nope, not automatically only

nope, not automatically only if scores on the CogATs warrant it.

and nope again, even if a child has been administered the ITBS in lower grades in another school/system, unless it was with WCPSS in the 3rd grade it won't "count" and all must be taken again.

Thanks...

With AG kids, I kew about the ITBS and 3rd grade; just didn't say it right.

As to your second statement, the district has a set of tests which they will accept to allow a student to be placed in AG.  There are time limits on when the test had to be administered (within the past year), but people can always bring outside testing in.   So, trying to place a rising 4th grader into AG with an ITBS they took in 2nd grade probably won't cut it.  But, it seems to me that an ITBS administered in 3rd grade by a different system (or an independent psychologist) should work.  

My recollection is that the CogAt and ITBS are administered in the system because they're relatively inexepensive and easy to administer to a bunch of students at the same time.  In theory, the district could instead administer the WISC-IV, for example, but that's much more difficult for the system to administer en masse because it involves one-on-one interaction with the test subject.

ITBS administered in 3rd

ITBS administered in 3rd grade by a different system (or an independent psychologist) should work.

 

"should" being the operative word, Bob.

as you are an AG parent you are well aware of what is lacking within the system as far as AG, it's *almost* as criminal as the EVAAS debacle.

Yes....

I fully agree.  The AG program seems to be the systems' red-headed step-child.

One of my big frustrations of the AG program is that it seems to be focused on simply getting kids to do more work instead of giving them the opportunity to do different things or to just have some enrichment.  There have been times where my kids' AG homework dwarfed their regular class work.  It's like the proverbial pie-eating contest, where the winner gets more pie.

exactly right and worse yet

exactly right and worse yet is that sometimes the AG kids are used as TA's to "fill the gap"...

I second that comment

IMHO, given the current system and budget, the AG coordinator does not justify the expense. In both my ES and MS dealings with them they did very little to insure the AG students were given special enrichment. It was individual teachers that understood the concept of acceleration or the benefit of cluster grouping for gifted children in the classroom that helped my child the best.  Unfortunately this is not universally taught to teachers.

When the "TA solution" was proposed to us I was taken a bit back also.

Iowa Test

Did the school administer the Iowa Test of Basic Skills?  If so, was it administered to all students?  Was there an established cutoff used to determine which children would be accelerated two years ahead in math?

I have real reservations about rapid acceleration in math but, if it's going to be done, I think we need a fair way to determine who qualifies.  We also need to make the same opportunities available at all middle schools if we decide that this is an appropriate placement.  Otherwise, we end up with disparities again only this time they would be based on the courses offered by different schools. 

IOWA Basics

I know at Leadmine Elementary they are given to all students at the end of 3rd and 5th grade and is a key datapoint to course placement and EG status.

My wife and I also have some reservations regarding the accelerated placement.  It had a negative impact to my daughter this year. She had straight As except in math - high B, so she missed the A honor roll while her friends taking a lower Math got an A.  Now we are looking at high math in High school and while she is good at it she has no interest in math based careers.  

Ensuring consistency across a district the size of wcpss is a challenge, certainly compared to a Northern District that has but 1 HS, 2MS and 4 ES.

...

Solon -- is the Iowa given to all students at the end of 3rd grade and 5th grade at Leadmine regardless of their CogAT score? Why is it given again in 5th grade?

straight As except in math

That high B instead of an easy A is exactly why Algebra is a valuable course and why it's such a big darn deal that we are keeping kids out it!  Algebra is the first rigorous course kids take. It's the first time most kids figure out that learning is a struggle.  Most kids are woefully unprepared for the work that accompanies Algebra, and if some get upset when they B's, it's a lesson they need to learn.  The accelerated placement isn't the problem--the problem is that kids get to algebra without having learned how to learn, without study skills, without math fluency, without work ethic, without an understanding that homework is necessary for higher learning and without learning the point of education is to learn, not to acquire A's.

I have an accelerated placement child myself and I consider the B he got in Algebra the most successful part of his education to date. He's a better student, and is learning more, in every class, as a result of struggling through algebra. The bonus is the B doesn't count on his HS transcript because it's middle school.

One reason

This is one reason why we also have to focus on appropriate placement of students into pre-Algebra.  Although I believe we were told there are only a small number of topics that are covered in pre-Algebra and not in 7th grade math (which is why qualified kids can be moved up with additional assistance), pre-Algebra carries an assumption that students need to prepare for the rigors of Algebra.  I'm sure it's still a big step up to Algebra, but I think it helps to have been part of a class the previous year where you are expected to be making that step. 

huge disconnect between E&R report and NCDPI data

We saw the E&R data in a small group meeting last January, we could not make the numbers work. Too many data points were missing between the report and EVAAS. We had principals who reported their placement privately and it did not match the E&R report, it was a mess. I had a second private meeting with Donna to go over the data because even she had a lot of concerns. Overall, we were missing 10% of eligible white students and 20% of eligible black students. AndYes, EVAAS does have racial breakdown information within a school. There is no political agenda here, I am a democrat - probably a super voter democrat on some call list somewhere.

If you look at the NCDPI disaggregated data by LEA (wake) and school and algebra I there are * for black and hispanic in the algebra I EOC at Martin, which means there were 5 or less who took the test. they did not place eligible children. It is all criminal.
 

This is a valuable example

This little essay is a bit of a museum piece - I urge interested parties to keep it around for future reference.  Its much like reading 1960s period expressions of why it was not in the interests of all concerned, especially the oppressed, for Civil Rights legislation to move forward at that time.

This is a valuable example of the kind of rote recitation of propagandized talking points that, until recently, one could hear from scores of Wake County employees and many other so-called advocates of poor and minority children, patiently explaining the evils that would befall "at-risk" students if they were suddenly thrown into the same curriculum as other students.  Veiled faux compassion at every corner - anything but offer equal and fair access.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard it patiently explained that it is for the good of the children themselves that their placement in the upper track placement be "delayed" or withheld.

There's still plenty of these salesmen around but the snake oil is still getting rare enough to think about preserving a few examples for posterity. 

Your Logic?

By your logic then, we should have a referendum on keeping minority students from higher level classes until we have a longitudinal study to determine with certainty that minority kids should be allowed to take these classes? Nonsense - how absurd! What you are suggesting will only keep minority students down and out for more years to come.....

The reality is kids can suck on standardized tests but demonstrate clear competency in the curriculum. That's where teachers come in to exercise their professional judgement to recommend students for higher level classes. 

You can also factor in parent requests - as advocates they have a right to request their child be placed in thease classes regardless of what the teacher thinks. Teachers are also wrong.

With this in mind, teachers should not be allowed to exclusively determine a student's competence for recommendations to higher level classes. Teachers can be wrong about students abilities and may be influenced to deny a student's entry to a higher level course because of behavior and/or performance. Please note - performance does not equal ability or aptitude. There has to be other safeguards to prevent students from getting lost in the equation here.

Your Logic?

By your logic then, we should have a referendum on keeping minority students from higher level classes until we have a longitudinal studey to determine with certainty that minority kids should be allowed to take these classes? Nonsense - how absurd! What you are suggesting will only keep minority students down and out for more years to come.....

The reality is kids can suck on standardized tests but demonstrate clear competency in the curriculum. That's where teachers come in to exercise their professional judgement to recommend students for higher level classes. 

You can also factor in parent requests - as advocates they have a right to request their child be placed in thease classes regardless of what the teacher thinks. Teachers are also wrong.

With this in mind, teachers should not be allowed to exclusively determine a student's competence for recommendations to higher level classes. Teachers can be wrong about students abilities and may be influenced to deny a student's entry to a higher level course because of behavior and/or performance. Please note - performance does not equal ability or aptitude. There has to be other safeguards to prevent students from getting lost in the equation here.

which one are you?

David? Athena? I know you are from E&R, that is beyond a doubt. Keep up the fear mongering, it is working so very well for you. Your biggest problem is that you now have a superintendent who values and seeks the truth instead of believing your normal propaganda. He is smart and looks at data. It has got to suck to go to work right now.

Snordone, you are on the wrong tack too!

Snordone, who are Athena and David? I'm a community member that cares about MY kids' education and our local public schools. Like you, I try to keep up with the issues as best I can - this forum helps that process. I do not purport, or claim, to be a WCPSS employee, leader, or "insider" (as some folks in this forum do or appear to be!). Finally, I suggest you refrain from playing with folks' careers and livelihoods by tossing out names in your posts in such a reckless manner and without any substance at all. Focus on discussing the issues at hand in this forum rather than trying to publicly stigmatize folks unnecessarily and starting a 'witch hunt'! For someone that preaches equality and fairness your willingness to attempt to throw people (that I assume go about their business professionally and ethically) under the bus in this forum is unwarranted, disappointing, and inappropiate. 

Paula, "Independent, Fair & Speaking Up for MY Kids."

professional attacks

Don't talk to me about professional attacks. We have taken more than a few professional attacks over this issue thanks to all those who think our system is fair, equitable and just fine as it is. Several of the professional attacks were at the hands of those inside E&R (who directly contacted our employers) and even one person who is currently running for the BOE (who emailed my dean!). You are clearly from inside central office. I blog in my name because even when I get pissed and sarcastic I should have to take responsibility for my words. This has not been minor philosophical banter, it has been personal and nasty and exhausting. I have told you before, people with your mindset (that ED and minority kids are less capable) are no longer relevant to the conversation. I sincerely hope that the superintendent figures out who you are so that you can be gone with the rest who think like you do.

Snordone, you're wrong on several counts...

Snordone, I have previously stated in this forum that while we have one of the consistently highest performing school districts in Nth Carolina, that has received national accolades, it is still far from perfect. Yes, our local public school district can be improved in some/many areas, but is does not need to be dismantled or radically reformed. Next, I have NEVER said ED and minority kids are less capable (please refer me to the posting where I said that!) - in fact I defend MY kids and the less disadvantaged in this forum. I do not agree that it is appropriate to push some students into an advanced math class that teachers feel are not ready for, yet a far removed statistical software program projects otherwise.

Snordone, again for one that preaches fairness and equality your statements at times are anything but that - including your statements that WCPSS' central office should be rid of people that disagree with a perfect world as defined by you. Your approach reeks more of a dictatorship than a democracy! Lastly, I will repeat that I am not a WCPSS employee nor have I ever claimed to be. I know some folks that work for WCPSS (as many of us do!) and perhaps I am close to a person that works for WCPSS, ie. live under the same roof, but I am certainly not a salaried employee at any level. I disagree with some of your postings, but I would hate for you to lose your employment or personally suffer outside this forum because of educational debate (negative or positive). In contrast, you misrepresent me in here, conduct witch hunts with random finger pointing, and publicly condone, along with Woodstock, people being fired for expressing their political leanings, and thoughts about WCPSS, that may differ from your own (that's a lawsuit waiting to happen right there!), etc. Time for some self-reflection Snordone.

Paula, "Independent, Fair & Speaking Up for MY Kids."

yes to a dictatorship

No one should be allowed to deny a child access to education and opportunity, so yes, it should be a dictatorship.

Blog in your real name and we can have a legitimate conversation. Until then I will continue to believe you are an insider who is not coping with change. I am not hiding behind an anonymous name throwing bombs at people, when I throw bombs it is in plain sight. I don't condone firing someone because of their political leanings, I condone removing people who damage children with fabricated data, threats and lies.

Oh dear, Snordone is a tad feisty and perhaps irrational today

Snordone, please refer me to any of the alleged postings in this forum at any time where I have made "threats" (or did I misunderstand you?) and, as you alleged earlier, I have said that ED and minority children are inferior, etc. You will fail to do so.You my friend are the one that seems to be  misrepresenting and misleading. I'm fine debating issues with you, but there is no need to go "Woodstock" on me and act like a loose canon! I hate that I suggest you are being irrational today, but with all the name calling and allegations at your end I'm not sure how else to respond frankly!

Paula, "Independent, Fair & Speaking Up for MY Kids."

Harumph

 

I do not agree that it is appropriate to push some students into an advanced math class that teachers feel are not ready for, yet a far removed statistical software program projects otherwise.

I'll take your use of the word "some" to refer to those students whose teachers do not feel they are ready for Algebra.

The thing that really shows the approach to work is this: it was tried this past year in a number of WCPSS schools, and the kids at those schools succeeded.  While not the district's original intention, it ended up being, effectively, a successful pilot program.

 

If "paulastam" really is

If "paulastam" really is someone from E&R -- and more than a few folks believe it is -- one has to wonder how much longer they will have work to go to. Publicly ridiculing and criticizing one's boss virtually assures a change in employment is in one's future.

Woodstock, I see you continue to be both...

...confused and a wannabe online bully. Those of us that take time to read your posts on the odd occasion know that you are a pro at consistently posting misleading statements and claims in this forum (all with a Tea Party slant)! Moreover, when you do not like another's post then you post your diatribe and try to discredit the person rather than her message. Sorry, but I'm just calling a spade a spade...

Paula, "Independent, Fair & Speaking Up for MY Kids."

LOL The Tea Party again? You

LOL The Tea Party again? You have a very short memory, or, more likely, you just don't like the truth when it does not fit your preconceived notions. You suggest I mislead, while you blatantly ignore the facts. You are a very peculiar guy.

Wrong AGAIN Woodstock...

...that would be "peculiar gal"!

Paula, "Independent, Fair & Speaking Up for MY Kids."

sure, whatever you say...

sure, whatever you say...

...

If students are academically ready, how is it premature to place them in the proper math class? When is the correct time to place them then?

Sideburns, the issue is that computer software is projecting...

...student readiness with NO knowledge of other variables. How do we know that the program is fool proof? Teachers are trained professionals that understand and are privy to the wider context, but General Tata and Tedesco are in a rush to toss their judgment and professionalism to the curbside. If indeed there had been an underassignment in the past, then that could be corrected in a variety of ways without having to remove teachers' professional judgment and risk placing some students in advanced math classes prematurely - putting them at risk of failure and dropping out of high school.

Paula, "Independent, Fair & Speaking Up for MY Kids."

So...

How do we know that the program is fool proof?

Over the past year, the approach that would be dicated by this policy has been applied in some, but not all, of the schools in the country.  In those schools, there's been no substantial change in the number of students not succeeding in Algebra I.

Note that under the new system, teachers can still exercise their professional judgment: if they feel that a student would be harmed by being placed in Algebra I, they can talk it over with the student's parents, who can then decide not to place the student.

...

What other variables do you believe need to be considered? One's race? How much money a child's parents make?

Again, define prematurely. When is a student ready for proper math placement?

I have to give Keung credit and the News and Editors hell

This is all water under the bridge now, but I think that the N&O should be called out for their lack of accurate and adequate reporting. Keung kept the issue of math placement issue in the blogs and did cover it this morning in an article, but the News section and the Editors did their best to suppress it for 2 long years. A year ago I talked to Jim Nesbitt about this issue on the phone and he called it a "category B" issue - i.e. it was not important enough to talk about in the paper. A week ago we wrote an oped about the most recent report and sent it to Steve Ford. We wanted to get it out to the public that the sheer number of minority, low income and students with disabilities who were denied access to the college track was staggering. We wanted people to show up at the meeting next Thursday and demand that we stop our racist practices. Steve was rude, dismissive and basically spit in my face. So I wrote a single author oped and submitted it on Wednesday: "the damage done by media bias." It won't get published either. So here it is:

As a liberal democrat I have never given much credence to the concept of media bias – until now.  The debate over diversity in our public school system has been covered ad nauseam by the News and Observer, from the private lives of our Board of Ed members to every single assignment model put on the table. However, on one issue the N&O has been deathly silent; the issue of Math Placement. Equitable placement of ALL qualified students into upper level math was the primary reason for the formation of The Economically Disadvantaged Student Performance Task Force (EDSPTF) and has been addressed at multiple meetings in the last two years. Math placement is critical for students because 8th grade Algebra I is the gateway to the college-track curriculum in Wake. Last Thursday the EDSPTF obtained a report from WCPSS that publicly documented the extent to which thousands of academically eligible minority students, low income students and students with disabilities (SWD) were denied access to the college track in 2010. Despite the magnitude of this publicly disclosed information the N&O remained silent. Not a single article was written.  I am only left to believe that it is because of media bias. The N&O has been an ardent supporter of the diversity policy and this report laid us bare. A system that is nationally recognized for its fairness to low income families has quietly been denying academically qualified minority and low-income students access to the upper level math classes that would put them on the college track. Given this lack of reporting I am left to ask one question: how quickly could we change our policies and how many children could be placed on the college track if the N&O would simply report the truth rather than hold tight to their ideology?

Hmm....

How much ink has been spilled over the idiotic issue of UNC FOOTBALL, worrying about incredibly petty things like parking tickets and whether the wrong person tutored a football player?  How many articles were written over whether a single student (Davis' son) should get into UNC?  Yet, literally thousands of poor students are being systematically denied educational opportunities in Wake County, and the editors' collective response is a yawn.  

Maybe the approach has been wrong -- the board should require all these students to be enrolled on football teams, so the editors could opine on whether football players should be kept out of Algebra.

Shila -- I suggest that you might want to get up with John Tedesco and submit a joint op-ed.

There is a story here, but

There is a story here, but not one the N&O will ever report. I wish 'true crime' reporter Amanda Lamb would write a book about this, the money trail would be fascinating.

Public comment on the main news story

Keung's main coverage on the Algebra 1 story is posted online at N&O now and the usual rain/reign of ignorant reactive comments there has begun.  There's still plenty of willingness in the public sector to stomp out these gains.

For yesterday's lead story on the topic, it was gratifying that a number of people, and not just folks commonly posting here on the blog, were attempting to educate the general populace over there and get message out that this is about fixing institutional bias and extending opportunity rather than being a football for partisan politics.

Overall I would note that Democratic leadership in Wake County has noticably shifted on this in recent weeks/months, recognizing that this is something really important that we can all get behind.  I just don't think all the shock troops have gotten the memo yet.

Question

Currently, is the teacher's opinion the final deciding factor on whether or not a student gets placed? Will teachers be able to recommend placement or non-placement, and let the parents make the final decision based on scores, teacher recommendation, what they know about their child (study habits, stress level, home life, etc.)? That's how repeating a grade is handled - or at least it used to be that way back in the dark ages when I taught school!

we are moving forward finally

This has been hell for the small group of hard core people involved in this battle, they have take political, professional and personal hits. But my guess is that they will tell you it was all worth it to get to this day.  John Tedesco deserves the majority of the credit for this. He is the one who spent 2 years battling at the board table and battling with staff, demanding data, demanding accountability.  Interesting that the N&O gave him a footnote and nothing more. 

"It's easy to make a buck.  It's a lot tougher to make a difference."  ~Tom Brokaw

Tedesco, Tedesco,

Tedesco, Tedesco, Tedesco. If I have it right, he is just one person on a nine-member panel, but based on comments from what seem to be groupies on this discussion board, he has some kind of a mesmerizing svengali effect on people.  They heap praise on this wunderkind, but I can't recall reading where he has ever granted credit to anyone besides himself. Is it a one-man-show in Wake County?

Are you privy to some secret

Are you privy to some secret press conferences held by Sutton demanding better access to math for EDs?

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.
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