Is the Wake County school system taking the right tone by challenging AdvancED for wanting to conduct the special accreditation review?
As noted in today's article, the written response from school board attorney Ann Majestic to AdvancED voices the hard line that the board majority is taking over the review. In bellicose language, Wake is questioning the legitimacy of the sweeping review.
"We questioned their authority to delve into areas that are not in their realm," said school board chairman Ron Margiotta.
At issue is that Wake only accredits individual high schools with the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, a daughter organization of AdvancED. Wake hasn't taken the step of accrediting the whole district.
Throughout Majestic's letter, she asks how things such as reviewing student assignment and the contract with attorney Thomas Farr pertain to the accreditation of individual high schools.
But considering how much impact loss of accreditation could have, school board member Kevin Hill says Wake needs to cooperate with AdvancED.
"I think it was very firm," Hill said of Majestic's letter. "I don't know that it's the kind of letter you'd send if you were trying to build some bridges."
The board is set to discuss the review in closed session today.
Comments
Accreditation as a district
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 11:07 — SDR256From Keung's article: "At issue is that Wake only accredits individual high schools with the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, a daughter organization of AdvancED. Wake hasn't taken the step of accrediting the whole district."
From a Nebraska website regarding their accreditation:
Papillion-La Vista School District Receives District Accreditation!
After an extensive review process, the Papillion-La Vista School District (PLSD) received
District Accreditation from the AdvanceED Accreditation Commission. The Papillion-La Vista
School District is now among an elite group. There are currently only 546 school districts in the
United States and 4 in the state of Nebraska that are accredited at the District level.
All of the schools in the PLSD have been individually accredited for over 20 years.
However, the District Accreditation process is fairly new. AdvanceEd promotes excellence in
education worldwide. By receiving District accreditation the PLSD now has a distinctive mark of
quality, recognized internationally.
Interesting that the actions and words of AdvancEd are parsed to make the Wake case to sound as though we have been delinquent in some way, by not being reviewed as a district. But this article sheds a different light. This type of accrediation - districtwide 'is fairly new'. And district acccreditation is an 'elite' accomplishment, not one pursued by the majority of school districts in the country. Doesn't sound like we've been delinquent, only that we haven't pursued the 'extensive review process' (and likely expensive) to have this 'honor' bestowed upon us. Big deal. Cause for the SWAT team to come and break into the house? Doesn't look like it to me.
Also note that, according to this mindset, technically speaking if you want to spout about being an 'internationally recognized' quality district, you really DO need this international accreditation - if you're drinking the koolaid, that is.
Keung - if you do any further articles would it be possible to include something about the context of AdvancEd - who they are and just how common this accreditation is that they are spanking us for not having? Thank you!
I think you are
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 11:16 — carson79I think you are misunderstanding his post - he is not saying that AdvanceED is making an issue out of Wake not being district level accredited....He's saying that Wake is making an issue of this fact...
In case it was unclear, what
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 14:45 — KeungHui (author)In case it was unclear, what the article meant is that Wake is pointing out that only its high schools are accredited by AdvancED, not the whole district. Wake's contention is that in the absence of districtwide accreditaiton that it's not relevant for AdvancED to look at issues that go beyond the accreditiation of individual schools. But AdvancED is countering that that the districtwide changes are so significant that they affect the individual high schools.
Thank you for taking the
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 23:03 — SDR256Thank you for taking the time to clarify Keung
Gotcha
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 14:56 — carson79It was clear to me. I was trying to say that it is not relevant to the discussion that there are only a few districts that are accredited at a district level, as SDR was stating and analyzing.
Still relevant
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 23:07 — SDR256I still find it relevant. AdvancEd is asking for information that is not only outside of the scope of accreditation, but also for information that is as broad as what would be considered in a districtwide review. We only have a few individual accredited schools. They are two different processes, one of which WCPSS never requested. And AdvancEd is threatening to 'punish' the individual schools because the district isn't playing the 'district review' game. We never asked for a district review, and very few districts do.
Not sure
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 11:29 — SDR256You might be right, you might be wrong. From what I can determine, Wake has individual schools accredited - and that is one process - a relatively common process although not a 'required' process, as seen from examples posted in comments to the online article. NY State has very few individual schools accredited at all. More examples are posted in the comments to the online article. (Hey all of you hordes of NYers - we know you're lurking out there - the mayor told us about you - tell us: did it affect your college acceptance?)
What I do gather is that a district-wide review - whether requested or forced - is pretty rare. Clearly we have not requested it, AdvancEd wants to force it on us and they want to review public policy that is outside their authority. And if we don't regurgitate all the requested data, they will take away perfectly well processed individual school accreditation. Its like the water meter reader demanding that you open your underwear drawer or he's going to shut the water off to your house. (?)
I responded to the article because of my interpretation and it sounds like you interpreted it a different way. You're right in that I don't think it was explicit. My reading is that AdvancEd is 'making an issue' out of some of our district wide policies, and so they want to conduct a district wide review (described as an 'elite' process - $expensive$) and if we don't comply with this rare step they will pull established and earned accreditation of individual schools? Really sounds like bully tactics to me.
maybe I read your post
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 12:55 — carson79maybe I read your post wrong, it seemed like you thought Hui was saying that AdvanceED was reviewing us or "spanking" us for not being district level accredited.
Not specific
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 23:15 — SDR256My post wasn't that specific and wasn't intended to be. I have a general discomfort with the convenient mixing and matching AdvancEd seems to be engaging in between their two processes. Individual WCPSS schools have been accredited and it would seem they have already fulfilled whatever district information was required for that process. AdvancEd is threatening to engage in a bastardized version of their districtwide review. We never requested a districtwide review. I was surprised to find out, after reading Keung's post, that the districtwide review is a very separate, new and infrequent review conducted by AdvancEd. So I can't imagine that other schools in other districts required to provide this level and scope of district information in order to obtain and hold on to their accreditation. (?) But, maybe this will become a whole new process for AdvancEd. Give accreditation to individual schools, and then threaten the district with an audit unless they engage in what amounts to a districtwide review. Nice business tactic. Kinda like extortion.
Private or public?
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 10:41 — SDR256I read the comparison with the IRS in blog posts below. From the IRS website: "The Internal Revenue Service is the nation's tax collection agency and administers the Internal Revenue Code enacted by Congress."
Is AdvancEd a similarly public organization, responsible to enforce laws enacted by a body of elected officials? Or, is it a private organization with its own motivations and tactics - kept private? If we don't like the way they are functioning is there a public body or official we can work with to get it changed? Or, are they completely isolated from public input and work independently of the public's views (in synch or not in synch is beside the point).? I looked on their website and couldn't tell from what they publish exactly WHAT they are. What was clear is that they have a lot of power over a certain program - accreditation - which has become ingrained in the school system. I can see, whether public or private, how an organization which functions on the power to bestow compliance or non compliance would benefit from making a big show of hauling in 'delinquents'. More publicity and opportunity to re-establish their power. If they are a private organization their power may become tenuous if they don't make a big show of imposing it periodically. Same with the NAACP, imho.
Do they get government funding? As with what we saw with WEP, any private organization can use eloquent words and empathetic goals to mask a total scam and siphon off dollars for their salaries. So, who are these AdvancED people? Just because something has become ingrained doesn't mean its a good thing.
This board
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 08:24 — bluedaisyThis board is getting quite arrogant and cocky. At what point does it cost each and every one of us?
Arrogant and Cocky?
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 11:53 — starsonoursWhat is the proper response to someone asking for things that they are not entitled to? Do you give what is needed for accreditation or do you give what ever they ask for? Arrogant and cocky is the proper response to a bully.
arrogant and cocky
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 11:31 — SDR256Seems to me that AdvancED is getting arrogant and cocky, and their elite review will be very costly.
How is it going to help our
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 07:14 — HereWeGoHow is it going to help our students to lose our accreditation?
You take that question to
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 17:50 — aquaman4life68You take that question to the Fat boy in the corner! If it does effect students, then the entire county of parents should band together and lay down some mighty strong pressure on the NAACP and anyone connected to it. They will be the ones that do that damage ...NOT this board. Why people can't see it that way, is beyond me!?!?! NAACP isn't interested in any improvement, they would rather see EVERYONE suffer just because they don't like what is going on.
A good question for Mr.
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 07:18 — CaryCurmudgeonA good question for Mr. Barbor
What are they afraid of?
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 07:36 — HereWeGoWhat are they afraid of? This is just like being audited by the IRS if you did nothing wrong why fight it?
If I called the IRS and told them you were not reporting all of your income and they audited you would you not welcome this audit to prove me wrong. So why does the new school board not welcome this audit to prove Rev. Barbor wrong?
So...
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 08:25 — Bob_SconceFirst of all, being audited is an unpleasent experience -- even if there's no ultimate issue, it consumes a lot of your time and energy. For that reason, if you find that you are audited, you should try to limit the scope of the audit as much as possible.
Secondly, your IRS analogy only works if it's just a random audit. This is more akin to the police investigating you because they heard that you had wine at dinner last night and threatening to take you to jail if you did, despite the fact that you were legally allowed to have wine at dinner last night.
The really telling thing here is that AFTER the complaint was filed -- i.e. after the board did everything that the NAACP was complaining about -- they re-accredited 5 WCPSS high schools! Clearly, the AdvaqnceED folks who did those reviews didn't believe that the board's actions affected the accreditation of individual schools.
It seems obvious that this is politically motivated. So, it seems prudent for the district to start seeking accreditation from a different body -- many schools have multiple accreditations.
If you received a letter
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 08:31 — magnetParentIf you received a letter from the IRS requesting you come in for an audit, would you send a letter back telling them that they are wasting their time? Seems to me they are poking the bear a little too much.
Hmm...
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 08:47 — Bob_SconceIf the IRS sent me a letter saying "We want to audit you. Please give us your complete sexual history, tell us what church you belong to and what websites you visit regularly." I would certainly fire back a letter questioning the propriety of that inquiry. That's exactly what this letter does -- AdvanceEd is looking into things that have nothing to do with our schools' accreditation.
Ahh, but they are not asking
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 08:58 — magnetParentAhh, but they are not asking for private information as you use in your example. They are asking for public information. If they are confident in the changes they are making and honestly feel they are doing them legally and for the right reasons, they should have no problem providing it to them and getting their support. Besides, if AdvancED sees any red flags in their process, they may be able to give them advice to prevent future problems from surfacing. What is the BOE afraid of?
No - by responding and
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 13:57 — loriacNo - by responding and giving them all the information, WCPSS would be agreeing that AdvancED actually has the authority to review this information and use it in their review. I think they were exactly right in their response - AdvancEd no authority over those decisions, and should not be given the material as part of the audit.
You are presuming....
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 12:43 — Bob_SconceYou presume AdvanceEd is unbiased.
What are they afraid of? That AdvanceEd will pull the accreditation of WCPSS high schools because the WCPSS board majority has offended the education ivory tower. They may couch it in terms of "We didn't like the fact that you ignored the research that diversity proponents brought." or "We don't like the fact that you don't know the costs of your new assignment plan." But, in the end, it would actually be because "We liked the assignment-for-diversity plan and are punishing you for dropping it."
AND ...
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 14:26 — MichYankeeif we can waste the board's time by requiring reams & reams of documents from the board (and thereby, wasting a good deal of time) AdvancED will succeed in their goal of rendering the board useless because they didn't do anything and never got around to the real work they needed to do .... what a great distraction. I'm really getting sick & tired of all the politics going on!
If The IRS Came...
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 08:08 — JanisTangoand audited you and started questioning HOW you were spending your money and telling you that you should not have spent the money here or there because they don't agree with your choice, you would have a problem wouldn't you? They could say we don't agree with the direction of that charitable organization you donated to, so therefore we aren't going to allow you to take that deducation. That is basically what this group is appearing to do. They are overstepping their authority by questioning the policies of the board when in reality every district in NC is doing the same thing. Are the going to start 'auditing' ever district in NC?
Imagine if Civitas or JLF
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 08:31 — CaryCurmudgeonImagine if Civitas or JLF had lodged a complaint two or three years ago. In the complaint, they alleged that the school board was irresponsibly wasting taxpayer money by busing students around, that they were unfair in providing equal opportunities to special magnet programs, that they were impacting students' abilities to participate in the arts and sports by forcing YR calendars upon families, and they were wasting taxpayers money by signing agreements to purchase property only to later have the county commissioners obtain that property for less money. Like Barbor's, their complaint would make no reference to the actual educational achievement of children. I think if they were coming to investigate such a complaint, launched by Civitas or JLF (or anyone else supporting the board majority), the GWIS crowd would be in a tizzy about now.
Exactly what I was
Thu, 09/23/2010 - 09:19 — jenmanExactly what I was thinking. A complaint could just have easily been brought against the old policy (I always thought it was something the ACLU should have been interested in). This complaint and investigation has nothing to do with education and everything to do with politics and I would guess that even the minority members of the board know that.