Will the state NAACP be able to make a 45-minute presentation at a Wake County school board meeting in January?
The Rev. William Barber, president of the state NAACP, made the request for the time in an open letter sent Tuesday to school board chairman Ron Margiotta. Barber said he wanted to "spell out the NAACP's analysis and suggestions for making Wake County Schools live out the promises of our children’s constitutional protections."
Margiotta hasn't indicated yet whether the board will accommodate the request.
Barber has already put the school board on notice that the NAACP will sue if it feels the new board's policies are leading to resegregation. The threat has become more real since the NAACP filed a federal civil rights complaint against the Wayne County school system.
School board member John Tedesco used the threat during Tuesday's meeting to justify hiring attorney Thomas Farr to be an additional legal counsel. He cited Farr's experience in civil rights cases.
Tedesco said he didn't believe that the board's current legal firm, Tharrington Smith, would be "zealous advocates" if Wake was sued by the NAACP. He cited the comments made in support of the diversity policy during the election campaign by Wade Smith, a founding partner of the firm.
School board member Kevin Hill shot back that Smith has never billed Wake for a minute of legal services.
Here's the letter Barber sent:
OPEN LETTER
Mr. Ron Margiotta, Chair
Wake County Board of Education
3600 Wake Forest Road
P.O. Box 28041
Raleigh, NC 27611-8041
Re: Request
Dear Mr. Margiotta:
On behalf of the hundreds of thousands of black, white and brown NAACP members in Wake County, in North Carolina, and across the United States of America, I extend our outstretched hands to work with the Wake County Board of Education to meet its constitutional duty to provide a sound basic education for each child in a setting that neither demeans nor degrades any child because of her or his color.
The NAACP has struggled with the challenge for 100 years to remove the sin of Jim Crow Schools---unconstitutional schools. Now our nation’s eyes turn toward Raleigh, NC. Will the nationally recognized program, carefully and thoughtfully put in place, be salvaged – or savaged?
The issue of our children’s all-sided development does not lend itself to ten second sound bites. The NAACP has perhaps the largest collective store house of what works – and what doesn’t work - to breathe life into the North Carolina and United States Constitutional Promises of a sound basic education and equal protection.
It is with this in mind that I respectfully request time myself and our local NAACP presidents to make an extended (45 minutes) presentation to your full board in January 2010, spelling out the NAACP’s analysis and suggestions for making Wake County Schools live out the promises of our children’s constitutional protections. Please let me know as soon as possible the time and place for this presentation. I look forward to hearing you.
Yours in the Spirit of Truth and Justice,
/s/
Rev. Dr. William J. Barber, II
President
Comments
Honest question
Thu, 12/17/2009 - 18:55 — RichardAndersonI am trying to see this from the Board's perspective and I have an honest question because I really don't know. user12345 stated
and that got me thinking. While this is not a very gentle question, I feel it is one that needs to be asked.
What recent record does the NAACP have on the educational issue in Wake County other than giving their political backing to the leaders who allowed (some might say caused) the problem mentioned by user12345?
Looking at it from the perspective of the new board members, the NAACP has been, at best, passive about, and, at worst, accomplices in, the very problem they are now claiming they have the keys to solve.
So what can the NAACP point to show that they are worthy of this special request? I have seen nothing, but I don't want to assume that it doesn't exist. But were I a board member, I certainly wouldn't be inclined to say yes to this request at this point.
Huh?
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 23:29 — Bob_SconceWhy should the NAACP get more than the 3 minutes allotted to any other speaker?
The threat of suing Wake County is exceptionally weak. In Wayne County, at least, they have years of evidence and (iirc) multiple school districts. In Wake, they cannot hold a claim that basically says "Dear Judge. Wake County wants to use an assignment method used by nearly every school district in the country. Please declare that method unconstitutional."
Suit
Thu, 12/17/2009 - 18:10 — TrailerParkGirlI'm interested to know the NAACP's justification for the Wayne County suit considering "students of color" (except Asian) are OUTPERFORMING state average on EOG/EOCs. In Wayne, it is the white and Asian students that are UNDERPERFORMING.
Well...
Fri, 12/18/2009 - 09:27 — Bob_SconceHere's a press release from the NAACP: http://www.newsobserver.com/content/media/2009/12/1/NAACP.pdf
(It seems clear that whoever writes press releases for the NAACP could use some more education as well. It's really poorly written.)
Basically, their claim is "Wayne County breaks its assignment up into districts. One of those districts is mainly black. And, people in that district do worse than people in the other districts."
I thought the school board
Fri, 12/18/2009 - 12:48 — user12345I thought the school board had drawn the lines such that one was Black and the Black one had inferior facilties, resources, teachers? No surprise ...
Complaint .....
Great disparities exist in the rate of children’s test scores in the predominantly “White Districts” as compared to the Goldsboro [“Black”] District
They have 9 board member looking over a system that is about 1/10 Wake.
...http://www.waynecountyschools.org/147210118131222397/site/default.asp
Nice number of VoTech programs
....http://www.waynecountyschools.org/147210131142825557/lib/147210131142825557/Annual_Report--2009.pdf
I just looked up the EOG/EOC
Fri, 12/18/2009 - 13:36 — shearertwI just looked up the EOG/EOC testing results for the ES, MS and HS located in Wayne Co PSS and particularly Goldsboro. I did not take the time to compile all the stats but "blacks" going to schools in Goldboro scored, in general, higher than the district and state averages for blacks. Are you sure that Goldsboro is the "black" district? If so, this lawsuit makes no sense to me. There were a couple of schools where "blacks" were scoring lower than their peers in the rest of the district and state but I bet thats true for some schools not in Goldsboro as well.
Goldsboro
Sat, 12/19/2009 - 13:16 — TrailerParkGirlGoldsboro's median income is lower than the Wayne County average and it has a higher minority percentage than Wayne County average - to be expected given correlation between race and poverty. So again, is the issue that it is the "black" area vs. the "white" area or is it that it is the "poverty" area vs. the "non-poverty" area? I found the comparison of Goldsboro HS and Enloe rather interesting. A higher percentage of Black and ED students pass EOCs in "segregated" Goldsboro than "integrated" Enloe and in fact they outperform the few White and NED students. I can only gather that given the Wayne County suit and their support of Wake magnets that either the NAACP has not looked at this data or for them "integregation" trumps "achievement", which is a troubling thought. It seems they may need to refocus their eyes onto the grand prize, not the consolation prize.
Could it be that 53% is not
Sun, 12/20/2009 - 12:10 — carson79Could it be that 53% is not a "prize"? desegregating this school and increasing achievement are not mutually exclusive ideas to the naacp
You missed the point
Mon, 12/21/2009 - 01:08 — TrailerParkGirlThe point is not that 53% is a "prize" - the point is that there is no correlation between "diversity" and achievement and closing the achievement gap is the grand prize. One need look no further than WCPSS to realize that "integration/diversity" and "achievement" are not necessarily mutually inclusive. Successful programs like KIPP and HCZ also show that segregation and achievement are not mutually exclusive. IMO to put so much focus on diversity is to focus in on the wrong thing. It's not about with whom you go to school, it's about what is expected of you and how you are educated that make the difference.
If "diversity" was the key, the ED and minority students at Enloe should outperform Goldboro and they clearly do not and WCPSS should not have such a disparity of ED results between schools. I was much better off in my high poverty schools in a different place than the ED students in a number of the "diverse" schools here.
I'm really concerned that in continuing to put all the focus on "diversity," the key "achievement gap" ball with continue to be fumbled. Can't say it enough - the defination of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
Again, considering the NAACP wants WCPSS to continue doing the same thing over and over despite the lack of achievement, despite ED and minority achievement trending downward relative to state average, and WCPSS having the largest achievement gap in NC, I fail to understand how the NAACP can claim to be focused on achievement. It seems if they were interested in achievement, they should be all over the failure of WCPSS to make progress on the achievement gap and wanting to explore new avenues toward changing that, instead of supporting the status quo.
I'm asking this b/c I
Fri, 12/18/2009 - 12:56 — shearertwI'm asking this b/c I haven't really been following this story and was wondering. How are the black kids performing in the "black" district compared to their peers in the "white" district and compared to blacks in WCPSS? Please don't give me "school level" scores. We can't say the "blacks" have it worse their unless the "black" scores are lower in that district. It should even be broken down into "black" F&R and "black" non-F&R, since we all know F&R students can't learn. (Last parts a joke TPG).
I know
Fri, 12/18/2009 - 15:43 — TrailerParkGirlI've read enough of your posts to know you don't think that way, but good for you to make that clear for general consumption :-)
I would LOVE to get break downs into F&R and non-F&R by race because I suspect much of what gets attributed to "race" disparities here (and in many other areas) are actually "socioeconomic" disparities, but due to the correlation between race and SE status they keep getting mixed up. I'm not aware of anywhere that those breakdowns are available though.
IMO one of the primary drivers in the minority achievement gap is the socioeconomic gap. Close the SE gap and the minority gap will follow suit. As far as I'm aware, non-F&R minorities are not struggling by leaps and bounds - it's the F&R minority students. It's not as much a race issue as it is a class issue. Maybe if people would stop looking at the world through "race-colored" glasses, they'd be able to see that.
Black on Black
Fri, 12/18/2009 - 14:19 — user12345<joke> shearertw ... you really need to break it down by region inAfrica they are from ... Western Africa Blacks do better in Wake while East Africa Blacks do better in Wayne so you really need to be specific to actually compare … also, Wayne Blacks do better than Wake Blacks but not as well as State Blacks but only in the 3 and 5 grade … Wake Blacks do better that Wayne Blacks in the 1st and 4th grade but only in Math while ….
Simpliest formula: only 54% of minorities graduate <no skill> + Yr2040 Whites will be a minority = disaster for theUS
Yes, but is doesn't appear
Fri, 12/18/2009 - 14:55 — shearertwYes, but is doesn't appear to be the fault of the Wayne Co. school system. That's the point. I think the NAACP is directing their law suit in the wrong direction. I may be time for them to look in the mirror.
If both White and Asian
Thu, 12/17/2009 - 19:39 — red_balloonIf both White and Asian students are being reported as underperformers, I would audit the data before placing any reliance on that.
Sorry if it was unclear
Thu, 12/17/2009 - 22:35 — TrailerParkGirlAs Richard clarified the state average to which I was referring was for that demographic group not the overall average.
I deduced from Richard's
Thu, 12/17/2009 - 22:57 — red_balloonI deduced from Richard's response I had misinterpreted but your response more clearly illustrates it for me. It looks like Wayne county is where the minorities do better. I am baffled as to why Dr Barber chose this school system to vilify.
Under performing
Thu, 12/17/2009 - 19:58 — RichardAndersonUnder performing versus the state average for that student group is not the same as under performing versus the total state average.
White Americans' majority to end by mid-century
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 20:42 — user12345WASHINGTON – The estimated time when whites will no longer make up the majority of Americans has been pushed back eight years — to 2050 — because the recession and stricter immigration policies have slowed the flow of foreigners into the U.S.
Census Bureau figures released Wednesday update last year's prediction that white children would become a minority in 2023 and the overall white population would follow in 2042. The earlier estimate did not take into account a drop in the number of people moving into the U.S. because of the economic crisis and the immigration policies imposed after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091216/ap_on_go_ot/us_white_minority
Looks like the Census Bureau and WCPSS
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 22:49 — petehsuse the same criteria when it comes to publishing timely and accurate data.
Here's a thought
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 16:58 — ego7601Why doesn't Rev. Barber use his 45 minutes to take a bus ride from SE Raleigh to North Raleigh to see what some of those kids have to go through. I looked at a couple of bus routes and there is a bus stop .6 miles from the prestigeous Enloe HS, but instead of being at school in 8 minutes- WALKING, those kids have to ride to Leesville about 45 minutes away (with all the stops, traffic and required 45 mph speed). Maybe that will give him some perspective at 6 o'clock in the morning.
nobody jump down my throat
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:34 — carson79nobody jump down my throat please it's almost Christmas! lol
seriously, where is this information available? Is it the Leesville high bus route on wcpss website? and then what bus stop is it, none jumped out at me.
On the website
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 21:51 — ego7601If you go to the main WCPSS website, click on "Schools" and then you can click on Elementary, Middle and High schools. The bus stop I was referring to was the one at Oakwood and N. Fisher St. According to Google Maps, it is .6 miles from Enloe.
That isn't even the worst of the cross-town bussing for me. The worst is that elementary school kids in the same area are being bussed to Leesville as well (as are middle schoolers). These 5-10 year olds have to get up at the crack of dawn to get on a bus for 45 minutes to an hour. And what REALLY peeves me is the fact that there are 5 elementary schools within the same zip code of where they live. If it were one school to hold all the kids in the area, I would have a bit more understanding. But 5?? 4 of the 5 are magnet schools- 2 being for AG kids. Why must a kid in that area be bussed away from the AG school? Do they not deserve to be afforded the same opportunity as the kids whose mommies drive them to school in a BMW? I have been using house currently on the market as my "base" for determining distances. One of the elementary schools is 1 mile from that house. All 4 of those magnet schools are within 3 miles of that house. Not to mention there are probably at least another 5-10 elementary schools that these kids pass along the way to Leesville.
My blood pressure is rising, so I will relinquish my soap box for this evening.
"Store House of What Works"
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 14:45 — ncmpgjr"The NAACP has perhaps the largest collective store house of what works – and what doesn’t work - to breathe life into the North Carolina and United States Constitutional Promises of a sound basic education and equal protection."
Amazing Mr. Barber has allowed this data to sit in the "store house" while minority academic achievement slipped under flawed socio-economic experiments.
Where ya been Barber?
Where's ya data been? Looks like more of a PR stunt than anything sincere. He's just trying to justify his existence.
Birds chirping.
The NAACP is nothing more
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 14:03 — shearertwThe NAACP is nothing more than a special interest group/bully. If they get 45 minutes, I would fully expect AFP and Called2Action to request the same.
The board should request a presentation be sent
Thu, 12/17/2009 - 16:53 — pmIf they get 45 minutes, I would fully expect AFP and Called2Action to request the same.
Totally agree. If the boards begins to allow certain groups an audience but not others, it could/would ignite controversy.
The NAACP can hold their own forum, invite the board to it or create a report/presentation and mail it to the board.
Give them each 15 min and
Thu, 12/17/2009 - 18:02 — user12345Give them each 15 min and expect them to go do something ... no whining ... like I mentioned Ron and the newbies are already in touch with AFP and Called2Action (I think Ron is a founder or president) so there won't be much learned from them... given the board's poor record with minorities (54% graduation rate), I think the NAACP input might be more productive.
True but...
Thu, 12/17/2009 - 18:41 — RichardAndersonThis is true but...
On the other hand Ron is on
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:50 — user12345On the other hand Ron is on the board of Called2Action and the other four might be too so nothing new would be gained but to talk to representatives of minorities that make up 50% of the schools system on a boarf that only has one minority might be informative. Remember thie board has failed minority students with only 54% graduating so they need all the help and advice they can get.
I'm sorry, but in reality,
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 19:48 — shearertwI'm sorry, but in reality, the NAACP doesn't represent all or even most minorities. Generally, they represent their own interest.
Who?
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 18:58 — RichardAndersonIIRC, none of he current board members other than Ron have been on the board for more than two years and Ron was usually the one in the 8-1 votes. Don't automatically assume that these board members are subject to the same failings as their predecessors.
As would I. This is nothing
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 14:20 — WakeCountyParentAs would I. This is nothing more than an opportunity for Rev. Barber to grandstand.
What I would rather see is the board room filled with African-American, Hispanic, and other F&R-classified parents who will stand up and let the public and Board know exactly what they want for their children. I don't want to hear it from Rev. Barber or Calla Wright; I want to hear it from the people whose kids have been designated "castoffs" by the previous Board and are falling victim to the abhorrent graduation rate, lowered expectations, and lack of equitable educational opportunities afforded to the Enloe crowds.
If the preponderance of those parents tell us the system is fine as is, then I may re-think my positions on all these hot button issues. Until then, status quo is not getting done.
Still, I wouldn't mind hearing what the NAACP
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 14:55 — BWNelsonhas to say about the graduation rates of poor and minority students. 45 minutes, however, seems overlong.
Just be consistent
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 13:59 — louiselee44How many other groups, or individuals, would like 45 minutes alone with the board? Good grief, I had to condense years' work of data, etc. into a 3-minute time slot yesterday (which, needless to say, was impossible). I'll gladly even put together a power point presentation!
They're opening a big can of worms if they choose to honor this one request. Maybe 15 minutes with anyone who wants to share pertinent info. - sounds good to me! HA!
What group do you
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 14:04 — carson79What group do you represent?
The group called
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 15:44 — g88ky07"TWCAE", those who care about education. The children, the parents, the families, I'd say that's who she reps for, but that's just a guess!
What's your group, the "DMASQW", the diversity moaners and status quo whiners? Obviously!
As for Barber, dear school board, do NOT allow this man to take any of your precious time. He has nothing to offer you accept threats, bitterness and his usual bashing. He has nothing to offer this county as proven by how he's stepped up to the plate to help the very people he says he reps! We certainly don't need 45 minutes of his blathering. Just like we don't need to hear from anymore Enloe students. Ever!
Don't start that one
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 14:34 — RichardAndersonCarson, you are walking on dangerous ground here. When have parent groups been given special audience with the board?
I asked what group she
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 14:38 — carson79I asked what group she represents.
I think plenty of groups have been given special audience with individual Board members or smaller groups of them. I know Sutton attends that type of stuff because I've seen him at community events.
Comparisons
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 14:49 — RichardAndersonApple:
I think plenty of groups have been given special audience with individual Board members or smaller groups of them.
Orange:
It is with this in mind that I respectfully request time myself and our
local NAACP presidents to make an extended (45 minutes) presentation to
your full board in January 2010
This is the difference, although I think you know this and are just being intentionally combative.
The NAACP is asking for one of two things. Either a special session convened by the board just for them or a special allowance to take the equivalent time of 15 other citizens during a regular meeting. I ask again why it is that this special request should be granted to them when, at least as far as I know, it hasn't been granted to any other group by another board?
As an interested parent,
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 17:19 — BWNelsonI'd like to hear what the NAACP has to say.
If they don't present at a board meeting, could there be something public arranged so that the graduation rates can be addressed from both sides of the aisle?
What's wrong with hearing what they have to say? I haven't seen any rebuttal regarding reasons for the low graduation rate among diversity proponents and I would very much like to hear it. The advantage of doing it in front of the board at a public meeting is that some of the board members might be able to get an answer from them about this.
I do agree that 45 minutes would be way too long for a board meeting.
I'd also like to hear what
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 19:21 — jenmanI'd also like to hear what they have to say, but I don't think the board meeting is the right place for this. Simply because of the can of worms it would open. Should Louise Lee be able to have 45 minutes to present her research on YR schools? Should Joe Schmo have 45 minutes to present a plan for how to address magnet schools?
Its kind of like the City of Raleigh letting the Friends of Diversity use the Convention Center for their press conference at no charge. Would they let a pro-choice or a pro-life group do that?
But I totally agree with you that I'd LOVE to hear what Barber has to say and what solutions he has. Perhaps he needs to hold a public meeting where this info is presented and invite the school board members along with community leaders/elected officials and the general public?
Perhaps he needs to hold a
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 20:12 — NWRaleighMomPerhaps he needs to hold a public meeting where this info is presented and invite the school board members along with community leaders/elected officials and the general public?
I agree.
With Questions And Answers!
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 22:54 — JanisTangoI agree....he should also have to have a Q&A session.
Seems to me ... get them
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 14:58 — user12345Seems to me ... get them on your side ... tell them that 54% minority gradutation is unacceptable ... tell them the BOE would like some concrete, measurable actions to turn that around in the next two years ... they can get to work involving the community to find the problems, present the choices and push the results ... use the leverage ... five people trying to do everything be themselves is not going to work ...
Get them on our side?
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 16:37 — petehsHave you been to one of their recent "Marches on Raleigh?" They will never be on our side in this lifetime, save for a miracle offered by the grace of God. We have presented data-driven facts about the failure of our system with regards to their own children, and in return, they call us racists and resegregationists.
The best option we have is to ignore these extremists (who have proven that they are only in this for their own "glory"), roll up our sleeves and to work proactively...around them.
Political value
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 15:01 — RichardAndersonI won't deny the potential political value of this move, but you can also see how it could be problematic. The board is opening itself up to no end of criticism when the inevitable string of requests from other groups for equal audience are received. There is no way we can expect them to accommodate them all, yet at the same time, how can they fairly determine which to hear and which to send away?
understand ... but one
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 19:01 — user12345understand ... but one meeting and it would be over ... the secret is to leave them with the ToDos ... you show empathy for their kids, ask for suggestions, give suggestions and make something happens ... personally, anyone that presented at one of my meeting and who took my time would walk away with a list of actions to get my job done ... the newbies are never going to understand or really impact minority problems (e.g. 54%) unless they enlist the help of minorities ...
the newbies are never going
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 19:24 — jenmanthe newbies are never going to understand or really impact minority
problems (e.g. 54%) unless they enlist the help of minorities ...
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I would say that's not limited to the 'newbies'. It also goes for Sutton, Hill, McLaurin, Morrison (I think that's her name), Del Burns, Chuck Dulaney, David Holdzkom, etc. NOBODY has enlisted their help or elicited their opinions in many many years.
but one meeting and it would
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 19:07 — RichardAndersonFor the NAACP, but what about the board? How do they say yes to one group and then no to anyone else?
heck no ... if some American
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 19:51 — user12345... if some American Indian group wants 15 min to say the five points that would make a difference to their community ... sign them up ... see if you can implement it ... ANYONE who wants to help their race, community, disablity, etc. improve ... get them on board, give them an assignment and get them to work ... ok, if people here think the staff are all lazy / idiots than enlist all these people to work around them ... ultimately, all the board need to do is set direction and make choice when resources are scarse ... plan B sent John to NAACP (he faced down the last Balck group by himself) ... send Goldman to the American Pacific Indians??, Ron to ITB magnets, Keith to Apex ... so someone on the board knows something beside their neighborhood and can advocate, energize, and lead an extended group of volunteers ... so, if it were me, I would tell the NAACP that KIPP / CAP PREP sounded interesting for their community ... do they agree ... if so, help me make it happen ...
But they're talking about a
Wed, 12/16/2009 - 19:55 — jenmanBut they're talking about a 45 min presentation, right? That's a long time to allow people to speak at a board meeting. They have a lot of work to do at those meetings. I feel bad for the BOE having to endure 3 hours of public comments on things that aren't even on the agenda.