A proposed Wake County charter school should find out next month whether it's gotten preliminary approval from the State Board of Education to open in the 2013-14 school year.
The Longleaf School of the Arts, a high school to be located in Raleigh with a fine arts emphasis, is one of 25 applicants that the Public Charter School Advisory Council is recommending for approval. The state board will vote on the applications next month.
Longleaf almost didn't make the cut. The Advisory Council voted 7-6 to recommend the school. According to the advisory council's minutes,some members had questions about changes that Longleaf had made to its original application.
The Wisdom Academy, a school targeting the Southeast Raleigh area, was not among the applicants recommended by the council. Wisdom didn't even get an interview with the council.
The Wake County school system did not submit an impact statement on either Longleaf or Wisdom. In contrast, the school boards in Durham, Guilford and Charlotte-Mecklenburg had submitted statements objecting to new charters proposed in their counties.
If the state Board approves all 25 applications, it would represent a major expansion of the charter school program since the 100-school cap was lifted by the General Assembly.
Comments
only slightly OT
Sun, 08/05/2012 - 16:47 — turnerk1There is a very interesting op-ed piece in the NY Times that came out on July 28 (search "is algebra necessary" and it will come right up) that many on this blog might find interesting. The writer notes that a huge majority of people who don't graduate from high school say they dropped out because they couldn't pass algebra, and another large majority of the people who don't finish college do so because they couldn't pass algebra. He urges the reader to think about why algebra is considered such an important skill, and not other math concepts or fields such as statistics for instance. He advocates thinking about using other courses to meet the math requirement that utilize other math skills that are more widely applicable to every day life than algebra and stop using algebra as a "gate keeper" class that not only keeps kids from graduating, but is also used by many colleges as a quick way to weed out applicants even if the student isn't planning to major in a STEM-related field. Very interesting argument, and is tangentially related to sheartw's contention that HS doesn't do a very good job preparing people for much of anything (even college).
Why only algebra?
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 16:11 — bpuli9999The same case can be made for other subjects like biology or physics. Why stop at getting rid of only algebra?
Yes...
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 16:30 — Bob_SconceThe main point of the article was, basically, "We shouldn't make students take hard classes, because some students drop out when they take hard classes, and that's a bad thing.
In other words, it completely ignores all the positive benefits that accrue from overcoming adversity.
Coincidentally, I've got a
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 08:55 — KeungHui (author)Coincidentally, I've got a blog post running later this morning about algebra performance in Wake.
But nothing about the 200+ families
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 09:27 — FSandYOUhuh.
Read the article and I think
Sun, 08/05/2012 - 22:06 — jeffrey1Read the article and I think it's nonsense. And judging by the hundreds of comments left for the author, so do a lot of other people.
Algebra teaches you to think - and no other class can do that as well as algebra.
College is not a path to
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 17:37 — shearertwCollege is not a path to success for many. I'm ok with it being the primary first option focus for public school but there are many tracts outside of the college tract that should be made more available for students. Perhaps that would keep that last 20% in school and in a decent paying job when they graduate. Perhaps they go to the military or a vocational job. Perhaps a Few years later they are better prepared to go to college at that point. I'm simply saying that we will never achieve 100% college readiness and the current hs program does not do a good job preparing for other life tracts. The push to college also loses a few along the way and I say is part of the cause for drop outs. Not going straight to college doesnt mean you'll never get there but dropping out of hs probably does.
what does this mean?
Fri, 08/03/2012 - 13:12 — EBDarcyOdd paragraph in the app:
"According to the North Carolina Department of Public Instruction, only 65.3% of last year's Wake County High School graduates were accepted into colleges in the UNC system. At Longleaf School of the Arts, our plan is to graduate at least 90% of our students, all of whom will be ready to enter North Carolina's colleges. "
I always get suspicious when people throw around stats with no context. What % of WCPSS graduates applied to UNC colleges?
The two...
Fri, 08/03/2012 - 14:53 — bpuli9999statements are not connected. In any case, shouldn't they be at least aiming to get a 100% of the students ready for college - the NC system or elsewhere?
No...they shouldn't. Nor
Fri, 08/03/2012 - 15:10 — shearertwNo...they shouldn't. Nor should WCPSS. Every student does not need to (and some should not) attend college. Some students would be much better off obtaining a skilled craft such as HVAC repair, welding, computer engineer/tech, etc. We'd be doing a much greater service to these students by providing these options early in their HS careers instead of forcing them down the college bound track.
hmmm
Fri, 08/03/2012 - 20:38 — EBDarcyPerhaps you should read the application. The children you describe are not the children they are targeting.
In that case...
Fri, 08/03/2012 - 18:53 — bpuli9999is there a segment of the student population who you think should be dropping out of high school also?
So...
Fri, 08/03/2012 - 16:39 — Bob_SconceI think a better goal would be to prepare 100% of the students who have the capacity to go to college.
There may be some people for whom a trade school is their best option. But, there are fewer and fewer such jobs. When I was in my teens, the local technical high school had a course in "Television Repair." That industry doesn't really exist anymore.
I also disagree that
Fri, 08/03/2012 - 20:24 — shearertwI also disagree that everyone that has the capacity to go to college must go down that track as well. College is not the panacea we've all been mislead to believe...all smart people do not need to go to college. We have got to get out of that mentality.
Bob, That's simply not true.
Fri, 08/03/2012 - 20:13 — shearertwBob,
That's simply not true. Some of the trades have changed and some havent. There is currently a shortage of welders, electricians, plumbers, and HVAC techs.
Well, now...
Fri, 08/03/2012 - 23:15 — Bob_SconceSo, the fact that there's a current shortage does not imply that there's a great future in those careers. Over the past 40 years, the average wage of somebody without a college education has fallen in real terms. That pattern is not going to improve.
Bob, That's not the
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 08:30 — shearertwBob,
That's not the appropriate metric. People wo a college education includes a large group included people who dropped out of hs and college with no skills. The wages for skilled workers is rising.
20% of our hs students are not graduating. A fairly large % of those that do graduate and go to college end up not graduating. Others graduate with a college degree in x philosophy that is worthless and they're stuck with a mountain of debt to boot. So...those are the people you have to compare the skilled worker wages to...
So...
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 11:11 — Bob_SconceI may not have been precise enough. The data I've heard is that there are really three groups: (a) those who do not have a HS diploma; (b) those with a HS diploma, but no college degree, (c) those with a college degree. The average salaries of those in group (a) are dropping through the floor, group (b) is falling slower, but still falling. Group (c) is the only group that is advancing. I was referring to group (b).
Not surprising -- thanks to automation, most formerly low-skill jobs don't exist any more.
Now, of course, those are all averages -- in any group, there will be some who buck the trend. It may be that coming out and becoming an HVAC tech today will give you improving lifestyle. Or, it may be that the technology improves steadily, needs to be repaired or replaced less, and that there will be fewer people doing HVAC than today.
Is College Overrated?
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 09:51 — AngelaWThe Top 21 Highest Paying Jobs with NO college
http://www.goodfinancialcents.com/12-highest-paying-jobs-careers-without-no-college-degree-diploma/
Bob, That's still not the
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 12:48 — shearertwBob,
That's still not the correct comparison. The problem with the current hs degree is that it only prepares you for college. If you don't go to college, it's basically worthless. We know that everyone is not going to college and we know that everyone isn't going to be successful in college. That's reality. So...the comparison we should be talking about is between hs drop outs with no skills vs hs grads with no skills vs hs grads with a trade skill. I guarantee the hs grad w a trade skill is going to do better.
FYI trade skills not req a college degree are evolving too. Some ate pretty high tech and lead to salaries in excess of 80k/yr. These are not low skilled workers.
So...
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 15:31 — Bob_SconceI'd disagree about the value of a HS diploma, but of course you're right that some portion of the people who don't go onto college will do well, and that they'll do well taking some paths, when compared to others. I definitely think that WCPSS should be offering significant vo-tech options. But, at the same time, we ought to realize that it's a second-best option and ought to be guiding as many kids as possible to college, while preparing them for the rigors they'll meet there.
Over the long run, people who don't go to college will increasingly be left behind. (Not all of them, clearly, but more and more of them.)
Found some interesting data
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 09:39 — shearertwFound some interesting data from the Bureau of Labor and Statistics regarding HS graduation and unemployment. The data is from 2011 HS graduates.
In summary, only about 65% of HS graduates go on the college. That leaves about 35% behind so I'm thinking this needs to be a little more than a "second best option". Secondly, the unemployment rate for HS graduates not going on to college is 33.6%. Interestingly, this is only slightly better than HS dropouts which have an unemployment rate of 38.4%. I wouldn't say that good evidence that a HS diploma is all that helpful.
www.bls.gov/news.release/hsgec.t01.htm
See above
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 17:37 — shearertwSee above
I understand where you are trying to go here
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 14:55 — realisticI understand where you are trying to go here, but I take exception to the statement that all a high school degree does is prepare you for college. The technology used in the trades make them more than back breaking labor. Technology has crept into every service industry - automotive is a perfect example. A high school diploma - that is - being able to read, to write, to comprehend, to THINK - is a requirement for every job! If you want the high schools to prepare students for a trade, then cough up the money. Providing the tools and the up to date technology for such curriculum exceeds our coffers. That's why we have Wake Tech - a fine program which is completely full each semester in every trade curriculum. Too many students come in to those programs not being able to do the core work needed to start the basics, which is why Wake Tech has the lower than 100 level classes. K-12 needs to make sure students are prepared to read, write, comprehend and think, so that they can be trained into their field. I'm all for having exploratory classes in shop, automotive, brick, plumbing, electrical, etc. But not full blown training and walk out prepared for a job.
I don't disagree with you,
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 17:42 — shearertwI don't disagree with you, necessarily. I think the current hs program doesn't do a good job preparing kids for other options. It overly focuses on sending kids to college which causes some who have no plans of going there to lose interest. Perhaps if they were offered an alternative tract...perhaps they'd hang around and graduated and learn even more relevant material for their futures as you mentioned. Even may college programs are not preparing students for the real world of high tech vocations.
There is never...
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 11:03 — bpuli9999a shortage of workers - only wages. Companies (especially in the high tech sector and irrelevant to this thread) tend to hype up shortages - caused mainly due to the fact they are not willing to pay market wages.
Looks like what shearer is suggesting is that all the folks who are going to get philosophy degrees (I would actually add a bunch of other useless disciplines like history, arts, religion, political science etc. to the list) should get into plumber training instead. That would at least flood the market with plumbers and get their $100/hr rates down to a reasonable level.
That is so wrong on so many
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 12:41 — shearertwThat is so wrong on so many levels. There are shortages of nurses and drs all the time. There are shortages of lots of trades all the time. The problem is people don't have the right skills to fill the jobs that are available. There is also a problem with govt entitlements removing the incentive to work.
Eh...
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 13:28 — Bob_SconceOver the long-run, bpuli is right -- if you want to attract more people into a career, then make that career more attractive by improving wages and working conditions. And, if you're having problems attracting people to work for you, then boosting the amount you'll pay them will usually do the trick.
You are, however, partially right about the government removing incentives -- there are a lot fewer General Practitioners today, largely because the reimbursement rates are so low.
I don't disagree with that
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 18:00 — shearertwI don't disagree with that in a free market world but our govt has ruined that. Low interest college loans has kids going to college when they shouldnt, getting worthless degrees that are unemployable, and riding the govt dole instead of gaining employable skills and going to work. Sure...if the government gets out of the way and drops all the safety nets, lowers taxes on small business and corporations, the wages will rise for those that choose to work rather that starve. Those without employable skills will have an incentive to get them. Starting salaries for welders is over $20 an hour. That's good money for someone who is 18 and only has a hs degree. Too many people think they should just go to college, get a degree in anything and they should start making 60k per year the day they graduate. That ain't happening bc most recent college grads arn't worth 60k per year.
That's what happens when the govt interferes with the market place....everything gets out of balance.
Cluless
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 21:01 — Solon77Our government has not ruined it. We now compete in a goblal market and US companies are quick to outsource to Asia to save $.
With regards to lower taxes - the corporate effective tax rate for US companies is one of the lowest in the world. Sure the published theoretical tax rate is the highest, but after the deductions, investment tax credits, and loop holes we have one of the lowest. Heck my company's effective tax rate is 15%, GE pays no tax at all and a host of other large corporations are in the same boat. Just look at Romney - funneling cash through offshore accounts and paying an effective 14% tax rate. Then on the otherhand Rubio is sponsoring a bill to exempt Olympic athletes from having to pay $9k in taxes (35%) on the $25k Gold medal payout. Hmm - see anything wrong with this picture ?
Back to your welder - the pay range is $8 for less than 1 year of experience to $22. In the old days yes you could be a welder and make a good wage, count on yearly merit increases, 100% company paid insurance, and a defined benefit pension plan with post retirement medical. It was not unusual for someone to work their whole career in this way and improve their quality of life. Then came outsourcing of jobs to Mexico and then Asia. There is no future in welding. So what are kids looking at today ? Basically jobs that cannot be outsourced so easily. These jobs require a college education, minimum 2 years preferrably 4 years. Since you are so fond of philosophy majors, below is a list of job options for philosophy majors.
Teaching. Majoring in Philosophy gives you communication skills as well as a solid understanding of learning itself, which also can make you a highly effective teacher.
Creative writing. Philosophy and Logic/Argumentation can prepare you for a career as a novelist, a non-fiction writer, or a poet.
Technical Writing. This is one of the biggest growth areas for Philosophy/Philosophy of Science/Ethics majors. Technical writers can demand starting salaries averaging $37,000 on today's market.
Executive-level administration and management. Many Fortune 500 CEO's have degrees in liberal arts majors like Philosophy, because these majors develop your interpersonal communication and organization.
Editing and Publishing. These fields require a strong facility with language, combined with the communication skills Philosophy majors develop.
Law. Many lawyers got their undergraduate training in Philosophy, because the skills involved in reading and thinking clearly and arguing effectively apply to brief-writing as well as litigation techniques. Logic, Business Ethics and Health Care Ethics will be especially helpful for you.
Mediation. Philosophy majors' skills at communicating and analyzing all sides of issues make them ideal mediators (for example, mediators are used in divorce cases, or to settle disputes between unions and corporations.)
Public relations and journalism. PR and journalism both require a careful use of language - something Philosophy majors learn quickly.
Um...
Sun, 08/05/2012 - 15:59 — Bob_Sconce(1) True, there's some outsourcing overseas, but far more US jobs have been "lost" to automation in the US.
(2) I think Rubio's plan is stupid. The tax code already has far too many preferences for different groups.
(3) Effective corporate rate for most corporations is a lot more than 15%. Big corporations, however, can afford fancy tax strategies to reduce their effective rates. That tends to skew people's impressions.
(4) I think your law point is overstated -- sure, some law students have undergrad majors in philosophy, but it's not "many."
(5) Your points about a philosophy degree apply to any general liberal arts degree.
You only seem to know about
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 21:56 — shearertwYou only seem to know about large corporations which are operating on a different playing field which is typically hand in hand with govt. it's the small to medium size companies that are getting hammered. If the effective tax rate is so low already, we should just drop it down to that point and eliminate the special treatment the big guys like GE (who is Obamas buddy) get.
Finally, welder is just one example but what they make depends on where they are living and working. Even $8 an hour is better than living off the government.
Reimbursement Rates to low
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 16:54 — Solon77The US pays 2x what other countries do for health care and add the fact that medicare ( the only government set rate) is only a part of what a GP makes, that is if they accept medicare patients. I find many GPs only work 4 days a week, have beach houses, send their kids to private schools, and take nice vacations. The shortage of GP is due to the industry limiting the number of doctors they will accept and educate, there are more specialties that pay more and a large number of slots are taken up by students from other countries.
We pay more because we use
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 17:48 — shearertwWe pay more because we use more. Other countries restrict access to healthcare and limit peoples ability to use it. Thanks to Obama, you'll find out more about that soon.
The vast majority of docs have worked their tails off to get where they are and they have accumulated a lot of debt along the way. Most don't start making "real" money until they are well into the thirties. It's a long hard path with many bumps and sacrifice along the way. If they end up with a beach house, you can be sure they've earned it. That, I know, won't stop your envy.
Pay more because we use more
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 20:27 — Solon77Why do we use more ? Are you saying that our system is wasteful ? Doctors left to their own devices would order unnecessary tests and other procedures to run up the tab to increase their profit. Bottom line is all other industrialized countries are able to provide healthcare to all citizens, people do not die due to lack of healthcare, people are not going bankrupt or foregoing treatment because they cannot afford it, life expectancy is greater than the US, and to top it off the cost per person is 50% of that of the US. Talk about the US not being competitive. Imagine the amount of $ US companies and employees would gain if healthcare costs were on par with other countries.
With regards to equating working your tail off with compensation - there is no correlation. There are tons of people who work their tail off everyday so what is your point ? With regards to debt - as a % of income potential it is far less than that of a teacher.
I have no envy of doctors and what they make. I look at it as an opportunity of where costs can be reduced, no different than shifting $35.00 auto worker jobs from Michigan to $15.00 in Alabama. The problem is that the AMA and lobbyists have worked effectively in suppressing the free market to put out more doctors.
I am surprised that you are willing to pay 2x more for your healthcare than other industrialized countries. Talk about a hidden tax. You should be all over that one.
So...
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 10:43 — Bob_SconceI'll note that the "running up the tab" thing would be a complete breach of medical ethics that, if discovered, would operate to take away the doctor's license.
Dr. Scott Atlas had an exellent interview on Econtalk a couple of weeks ago, separating the truth from fiction on health care. One example: life expectency is often used as a metric for the quality of a country's healthcare system, even though it incorporates a number of elements that don't have any thing to do with healthcare. For example, car wrecks involving instant death are far more common in the US than in Europe, and that operates to drive down US life expectency. Also, in the US, every infant who dies after childbirth is counted in infant mortality rates -- in a lot of Europe, they have to survive for 24 hours, and preemies aren't counted.
When you actually look at more direct measurements, like outcomes for different sorts of cancers, you see that US outcomes are generally better than they are in Europe.
Sorry...Just had to revisit
Mon, 08/06/2012 - 09:09 — shearertwSorry...Just had to revisit this post again this morning….couple of really dumb statements that needed to be addressed.
Doctors left to their own devices would order unnecessary tests and other procedures to run up the tab to increase their profit.
Complete garbage....Drs do not order more test to "run up the tab"....the primary motivation is to keep from getting sued. If 90% of politicians weren’t lawyers, perhaps we could get some sort of tort reform in healthcare that would go a long way towards reducing cost.
life expectancy is greater than the US
"Life expectancy" is a terrible way to compare healthcare systems between countries.
First, the US is an extremely diverse country compared to say Japan. Because of their lifestyles and genetics, Asians tend to life longer no matter where they live. People of African decent, on the other hand, tend to have shorter life spans and have serious issues with obesity, diabetes and heart disease particularly in the US. This is not do to poor healthcare but rather their lifestyle and their genetics (groomed by surviving in Africa for thousands of years doesn't mix well with a sedentary American lifestyle with plenty of high fat, high sugar foods around). Latinos have different, but some similar issues with lifestyle and health issues in the US. These issues are much less prevalent in Asian and European countries.
“Survival from disease” is a much better way to compare the effectiveness of healthcare systems. In the case of cancer, for example, the US does far better than Europe. That is due to a combination of early detection and better and faster treatment options often unavailable in other healthcare systems.
“…people do not die due to lack of healthcare”
Yes, in fact, they do. People die all the time in European countries (and Canada) waiting to be seen by a Dr, waiting for treatment or surgery. Imagine being told you have to wait 3 months to get an appointment after finding a lump in your breast and then, after your appointment, begin told it will be 3 more months to get a mammogram to see if it’s cancer. By the time you find out it is cancer, it’s nearly too late, and by the way, that new treatment for breast cancer….our government didn’t approve it because it was “too expensive”. Finally, older people are often refused treatment such as hip replacements or other surgeries that could improve their quality of life. The real explanation is that they’re just too old and it’s not worth it.
One more thing... Under and
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 22:14 — shearertwOne more thing...
Under and unreimbursement from Medicare and Medicaid patients cost WakeMed more money each year than treating uninsured patients. What do you think is going to happen when we move those uninsured to the govt roles?
That's right, they're going to use more of WakeMeds resources and shift even more cost over to private insurance. That's going to increase the cost of private insurance even more causing more and more people to drop out and join the govt roles. Currently, WakeMed raises a lot of money through charity to pay for the poor uninsured to receive treatment. That money's not going to be raised under Obama care...
So, ultimately, places like WakeMed are going to go to have to cut the quality of their care so they don't go out of business. That will come in the form of less drs, less nurses, longer waits, less innovative technology on and on.
Eventually, they will fold as will most of the private hospitals....and that is what Obama wants.
Sorry, but you have no idea
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 21:45 — shearertwSorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about.
The rest of the world is currently mooching of the US market which drives all of R&D. When the US market is gone, R&D is going with it.
The other issue we have in the US is that currently, the govt is paying more than 50% of all healthcare dollars and yes the are incredibly inefficient and are driving up cost for us all. On a per dollar basis, the two biggest users of healthcare in the US are Medicare and Medicaid patients. That is because those peolple have no incentive to keep cost low. They can go to the emergency room every night if the want to.
Lots of people work hard, no doubt but that alone is not why drs get paid more. First, they assumed great risk in choosing that path and great sacrifice in seeing it through. They also have great responsibility and skill for which they are rewarded.
FYI-most teachers can relatively easily have govt repay their student loans.
...
Fri, 08/03/2012 - 11:22 — AngelaWthis would be fabulous! Having had the honor to have met Orr and McElreath this summer during Governor's School, the success of a school of this magnitude is pretty much a guarantee.