The new Wake County school board majority has fast-tracked plans for the parental survey which should now make it possible to use the data to make calendar changes for the 2010-11 school year.
During today's work session, the board agreed to modify the parental survey. They'll now do an online only survey of parents of all K-12 students.
Staff is scheduled to report the results Feb. 2 with recommendations Feb. 16. While Supt. Del Burns said the timeline is tight, it would allow changes to be made for 2010-11.
School board chairman Ron Margiotta and board member Deborah Prickett stressed they want to begin making changes for the upcoming school year instead of waiting until 2011-12.
It's a major shift from Dec. 15 when the board agreed to do a combination online and paper survey. Staff said they'd report back in April, which would have made changes for 2010-11 school unlikely.
But following the Dec. 15 meeting, Margiotta told staff to look for ways to speed up the process.
For instance, staff has overcome their concerns about low-income families being underrepresented in an online survey. Now they'll tell parents who don't have Internet access that they can ask their child's school to send them a paper copy of the survey.
In addition to the survey, four community meetings will be held between now and the end of February to get feedback on calendars.
Members of the board minority weren't happy with the change in survey methodology. They complained that the board majority was rushing things.
“Do we want to do this quickly or do we want to do this correctly?” said school board member Kevin Hill. “Did I miss a meeting here?”
UPDATED
Letters will be sent home with students next week telling parents the identification number for their child that they'll need to take the survey online. Letters will be mailed to students at year-round schools who are on break next week.
Parents will have until 5 p.m. on Jan. 25 to complete the survey.
Comments
Survey participation
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 11:36 — NWRaleighMomSome people just don't fill out surveys. It costs billions to federal government to get census results back. So, do we assume non-participating parents like existing calendar in their school or don't have a preference? I expect over 50% Leesville parents will fill out the survey and probably less than 20% of traditional calendar parents will bother to do that.
SO..
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 12:32 — supportwcpssAre you saying the survey is useless?
Not at all. I am worried how
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 12:55 — NWRaleighMomNot at all. I am worried how GM will interpret and present results to the Board.
wonder how parents forced into private will be able to participa
Tue, 01/05/2010 - 23:41 — stacy123As I had to put my child in private I wonder how I am going to be able to particiapte as the MYR was the main reason for forcing me into private, but I must say academic rigor and standards are about a zillion times (okay 10 X higher)not sure if I can afford to have my child goback.
Don't do it ... public
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 09:51 — user12345Don't do it ... public education any place is a government offering and just hits the middle ... good but not great ... the private sector will always trump the public sector because the public sector has to take care of all kids with a wide span of needs and abilities ... if you left because of the calendar and are enjoying a superior education in a private school and can afford it , you should never return.
I thought you analyzed Enloe
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 09:59 — red_balloonI thought you analyzed Enloe and Cary Academy and concluded the returns from a private sector education did not justify the expense.
I know kids that graduated
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 12:14 — carson79I know kids that graduated from wake high schools and cary academy and here is my take...
If your kid is smart and self-motivated or really just one or the other of those, public high school is great.
If your kid is lazy or has discipline problems and is honestly just not that bright, going private to provide structure, more individual attention, smaller classes, etc. is worth the additional cost. otherwise, go public and save the $$ for the awesome college your kid will get into if they are in the top 10% of their HS class :)
Problem is...
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 13:40 — Bob_SconceAt many high schools, including some in Wake County, that "awesome college" may only be available to the top 2-3%. At many private schools and many first tier public schools, that "awesome college" may be available to the top 40-50%.
Can you give an example? I
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 15:07 — carson79Can you give an example? I don't agree with you from what I'm reading.
You can see what class rank % each school admits on their class profile information and there are very few below a certain percentage - I don't care what private school you went to.
There is no pay-off in my experience for private HS compared to public speaking dollar wise, unless you need extra help or discipline.
Uhh...
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 17:21 — Bob_SconceSee what Duke says about its admissions: http://www.admissions.duke.edu/jump/applying/who_whatweseek.html
Few points:
(1) No minimum class rank
(2) They look for academic excellence in rigorous advanced courses
I suggest that WCPSS does not really have a reputation for rigorous advanced courses. But, that's often what you pay for in private schools.
Duke looks funny to me -
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 19:13 — carson79Duke looks funny to me - over HALF the 2010 class did not report a GPA on their HS transcript!! Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that is very very rare for public schools. I know that Wake students have complained about this for a long time at some schools and also CH high. This has led to the urban legend that I know of 2 people that this happened to, where they are denied UNC but accepted to Duke.
It's like 750 out of 1368 enrolled Duke c/o 2010 students with no rank reported.
Compare this to UNC where 76% of the class starting in Fall 2009 not only reported a rank but 80% of those were in the top 10% and 93% in the top 20%.
Compared to what for that rigorous course reputation? I think Wake does have that rep in this state.
Where
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 23:19 — lferreriWhere does it say that half of the Duke students did not report a GPA? I know that many schools no longer report a class rank. I have been told by admissions people that this is done because schools feel that it unfairly hurts the chances of their students. Their argument is that being in the top half of a very competitive school is often better than being in say the top ten percent of a less rigorous school.
my bad! I posted that in
Thu, 01/07/2010 - 01:29 — carson79my bad! I posted that in haste and I meant "class rank" - I tried to put the link in that would have shown it but no links allowed :(
Yes, this is the argument that I have heard regarding Enloe and CH HS or ECH HS.
Anybody know if any Wake schools will release a transcript without a class rank?
Class rank
Thu, 01/07/2010 - 14:39 — lferreriI would assume that the WCPSS has a uniform position on disclosing class rank. So if one high school discloses it, they probably all do. However, there may be some private schools here that don't reveal rank. From my limited personal experience with college admissions, getting into a selective university involves a lot of factors. They tend to have an army of admissions people, read every application carefully, and look for a diverse class. There's a certain amount of luck involved too. For example, if you are a great student in Alaska, it might give you some advantage if you apply to somewhere like Duke or Wake Forest. It wouldn't help an applicant who wasn't stellar, but it might make you a more attractive candidate than someone from close by. (That said, I know Duke gives a slight admission preference to students from NC.)
But...
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 22:46 — Bob_SconceYou can't conclude much by comparing Wake's reputation to other districts in the state. It's sort of like bragging about how your Middle School's 10-0 conference record in football makes it ready for the Super Bowl.
As to the GPA -- where did you see that? I knew that Duke had a lot of home-schooled kids there, and that a lot of top-tier schools, both public and private, decline to report class rank or report grades in something other than GPA. But, 1/2 seems really high.
see above, I messed up,
Thu, 01/07/2010 - 01:31 — carson79see above, I messed up, meant to say class rank, your instincts were correct. I can't post the link but google will take you there... UNC still reports the class rank of the classes, it looks like Duke stopped a couple years ago. (at least on the website)
Is it common that public HS would refuse to report class rank? I didn't know things had changed in that area, or is this out of state? The argument makes sense to me.
Hmm..
Thu, 01/07/2010 - 09:15 — Bob_SconceIIRC, my public high school didn't report class rank, and that was in 1986. It did report GPA.
If you're a public school that prides itself on its ability to prepare students for college, you might report rank because you don't think it's a good comparison against schools that aren't really college preparatory. And, in my case, the district didn't weight grades (an A in AP Calculus counted the same as an A in remedial math), so the class rank didn't reflect difficult of coursework. Not reporting, at least in theory, forces colleges to dig deeper.
Duke is a private
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 19:44 — AngelaWDuke is a a private research university ...
Compared to what for that
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 19:17 — jenmanCompared to what for that rigorous course reputation? I think Wake does have that rep in this state.
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1) I would think that we'd have that rep in the state. NC isn't known for its great schools. Plus, a larger school district usually offers more AP/advanced/rigorous courses.
2) It really depends on which HS you're talking about in Wake. Enloe, Green Hope, Broughton? yes. Knightdale, Garner? No.
"At many private schools and
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 14:44 — user12345"At many private schools and many first tier public schools, that "awesome college" may be available to the top 40-50%. " hmmm .. I am not sure which HSs and colleges you are referring to as "top"
The "top" private schools in my mind are schools likeExeter , Andover , Hotchkiss, Deerfield, Choate, and Groton
Soo...
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 17:12 — Bob_SconceI think Christ School in Asheville might rank among those private schools you mention. But,anyway, I was referring to top-tier public schools. RCHS and Enloe (at least the magnet program there) come to mind locally as top-tier public schools. If you're on the recruitment committee for an Ivy League school, then you should know which local schools it has drawn from recently -- I suspect that it probably hasn't taken anybody from, say, Garner HS in years. Meanwhile, there are similarly-sized public schools that annually send a half dozen kids to Ivy league schools. (Even schools where you don't need to apply to go.)
Being in the top 10% of your class is insufficient to get into UNC-CH. I don't know exactly where NCSU stacks up on that, but it's not far off. (I do not consider the other UNC-system schools to be "top" schools.)
Ok, Bob ... here is my take,
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 21:16 — user12345Ok, Bob ... here is my take, I asked my daughter how many kids in her senior class of 500 from her generic Wake HS went to Duke (3) and UNC (20). CA website shows Duke 6 and UNC 20 from a class size of 103. Ok, not apples to apples ... her generic Wake HS is filled with 40% F&Rs ... Wake is attendance numbers and CA is acceptance numbers ... Wake students could have been accepted to UNC or Duke and chose to go somewhere else ... so, if you took the top 103 student from her senior class, I do not think the numbers are that different ... e.g. both got 20 into UNC .. but the CA family is out $80k.
If I remember correctly,
Thu, 01/07/2010 - 09:23 — jenmanIf I remember correctly, your daughter goes to Athens, right? Athens has 26.2% F&R. The only HS that has over 40% is East Wake. Garner is next at 35%.
Not that different??
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 23:09 — Bob_SconceSo, first of all the 6 and 20 at Cary Academy is attendance numbers (look at the heading at the top of the sheet that you're looking at), so those number actually are apples-to-apples.
Secondly, about 20% of the CA students went to UNC-CH, and only 4% of your daughter's class went to UNC-CH. What does that say?
Third, did anybody from your daughter's school go to Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth or Penn?
How on earth can you justify comparing only the top 20% of your daughter's class with the ENTIRE Cary Academy class? I'm amazed that you can look at the CA list (at http://www.caryacademy.org/uploaded/faculty/laura_sellers//Congratulations_to_the_Class_of_2009.pdf ) and apparently conclude that it's not that different from that of ANY WCPSS high school.
"Secondly, about 20% of the
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 23:44 — user12345"Secondly, about 20% of the CA students went to UNC-CH, and only 4% of your daughter's class went to UNC-CH. What does that say? "
It says she has a lot of F&Rs in he class ... 50%? ... compared to 1% at CA ... to take 500 random public school kids with 20 going to UNC and 100 hand picked ones from highly motivated and mostly wealth homes with the same number is quite a feat for the poor sad Wake Co. schools you seem to hate so much ... I am not going to waste my time looking at Brown, ect. ... your assertion that Wake Co. kids don't get into UNC is false ... the 20 who went from here are good kids but not Ivy League material so your UNC is the greatest school in the country is also false ...
Huh?
Thu, 01/07/2010 - 09:21 — Bob_SconceI don't hate Wake County Schools. I'm pointing out that they have a long way to go.
Even if you drop the bottom 50% of your daughter's class, she's still only at 8%, compared to 20%.
I never said that you can't get into UNC from Wake County. I said it's difficult, and that being in the top 10% of your class wasn't enough.
I also never said that UNC was the greatest school in the country (that honor lies about 8 miles north of Chapel Hill... he he...) But, it is a good school that happens to be attractive to a lot of students in Wake County. So, it's a good measure of WCPSS' ability to educate students to the point that they can go to good colleges. My point about drawing in the Ivy schools is, basically, "Not only did CA get kids into UNC, but look at the kids that got into schools that are on par or better than UNC."
We have probably beat this
Thu, 01/07/2010 - 10:52 — user12345We have probably beat this one to death ... I just want to say that I think it is likely that the 20 kids from Wake HS that went to UNC and the 20 that attended from CA were destine to go there and that the seat (in Cary or Raleigh) they occupied did not really make the difference, nor did the high F&R count, nor the $80k of additional education ...
what are the demographics of
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 19:17 — carson79what are the demographics of the public non-application school you mention sending 12+ kids to ivy league schools a year? similar to any high schools in Wake?
where are they located? I'm wondering what could be driving the high rates, of course once admitted you have to be able to pay for that ivy league education so I bet this probably skews it somewhat.
I agree carson
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 13:20 — user12345I agree carson
"I thought you analyzed
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 12:01 — user12345"I thought you analyzed Enloe andCary Academy
Good point ... I was really referring to ES and MS. We homeschooled our kids and put them in HS only after they had gotten a good foundation. I think public ES education is pathetic personally and I would do anything (e.g. smaller house, second job) in my power to prevent my kids from going that route. I might go so far to consider public ES education child abuse since it wastes so much of their potential, makes them hate learning and sets them up for hard knock as they advance. My four daughters have always tested two grades ahead of the public schools kids and the assignments their public school friends had in ES were so worthless compared to what my kids did… I see public ES as sort of enhanced childcare not an education as kids are capable of doing. I do not see that ever changing since public school has to teach everyone to the middle at the lowest cost taxpayers will support. I also think that ES is the place to invest since it builds the foundation for the following years.
Once the base is set, personally, I do not see where HS matters as much. If you kid is a math or science genius than finding a challenging HS is important. We chose the public HS route because my wife ran out of ability to teach the advanced maths, sciences, and languages available in public HS. While public HS is slow paced compared to homeschooling or a good private school by than the kids are autonomous and can compensate for public school defects – lack of classes, poor teachers, and unprepared students. For us, we chose to use my wife’s salary for college instead of investing it in CA. My daughters loved Enloe during the open house and many of their friends go there but it was just too far away to go to all their plays and games.
Interesting point. I should
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 12:57 — red_balloonInteresting point. I should consider pulling my kid (and wallet) out for a private ES. Is there a good resource for reviewing the quality of private schools in the Raleigh area?
Personal view ... if one
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 21:21 — user12345Personal view .... if one parent works to pay for private school than the money would be much better spend teaching them at home ... a daily dose of customized one-on-one tutoring blows away sitting in a classroom of 25 kids. A warning... if your kids have been in public school long it will take a while to undo the damage .. They will not be accustom to the fast pace and being self-motivated. What you are shooting for is developing a self-motivated child who loves learning … you are just a facilitator....
Almost eerie
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 22:43 — TrailerParkGirl"What you are shooting for is developing a self-motivated child who loves learning"
That is EXACTLY the educational philosophy that was used in my high poverty ES. You don't suppose THAT could be why it was such a wonderful educational experience? (rhetorical question)
there is no resource better
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 13:18 — JSBinNCthere is no resource better than parents who have been there... I'd be happy to relay our experiences with a Raleigh private school - perhaps email Keung and he can put us in touch.
Thank you. I will keep that
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 13:44 — red_balloonThank you. I will keep that in mind as I figure out what to do if he doesn't win the magnet lottery.
I second the above advice
Wed, 01/06/2010 - 15:11 — carson79I second the above advice and you can get in touch with current private school parents through the school too...and the best resource I think is someone who has been on both sides as a student and knows about changing back and forth ... but I'm biased :)
I think choosing a private school comes down to a gut decision about where you feel your kid will be at home, go with your heart and gut feelings and you will be fine. the tough decision is when a bunch of them feel just as great to you and that I would say would come to convenience and savings.
They hit the ground running
Tue, 01/05/2010 - 16:49 — woodstockThey hit the ground running again today. Lovin' it!
Shock and Awe
Tue, 01/05/2010 - 15:36 — g88ky07Kevin, it's called shock and awe! Quickly is the only way to go on this issue!
Great job board!
“Unreasonable haste is the
Tue, 01/05/2010 - 17:41 — jeannie84“Unreasonable haste is the direct road to error.”
-- Moliere
...
Tue, 01/05/2010 - 17:47 — SideburnsDefine "unreasonable".
I've been waiting over 3 years to see Wake County parents have choice once again.
"Unreasonable" is proposing
Tue, 01/05/2010 - 19:39 — jeannie84"Unreasonable" is proposing something without a plan or a budget for implementation. Prickett can't even tell us how many seats will be lost when yr schools are converted. Running the school system is about a lot more than making good on campaign promises.
Hat and scarf
Tue, 01/05/2010 - 21:00 — g88ky07wants us to believe it's 10,000, the real number is more like 100.
Maybe!
Why should Prickett be
Tue, 01/05/2010 - 19:57 — red_balloonWhy should Prickett be tasked with crunching the numbers when others are busy collecting money for this task? Administrators should have worked out the numbers ahead of time and provided the input to the new board.
But, it is not unreasonable.
Tue, 01/05/2010 - 17:44 — woodstockBut, it is not unreasonable. Waiting until April to get the results of a simple survey is unreasonable. Waiting another school year to implement needed changes is also unreasonable.
Go new school board majority!!
Wow
Tue, 01/05/2010 - 15:09 — supportwcpssOnline only??? I remember the old Board doing something like this where they were only going to offer something online and opponents raked them over the coals for it. Now parents can just ask for a paper copy.
What a rush job.
That is just another example
Tue, 01/05/2010 - 17:46 — woodstockThat is just another example of the old school board's ineffectiveness. They couldn't even overcome opposition to do a simple survey. FYI, it's 2010, an online survey is the way to go.
Exactly
Tue, 01/05/2010 - 15:32 — pmopponents raked them over the coals for it.
Where is the outrage!?! Oh wait, new board, new day new attitude.
"...new board, new day new
Tue, 01/05/2010 - 17:48 — woodstock"...new board, new day new attitude."
Yep! Ain't it great!
perhaps you missed the
Tue, 01/05/2010 - 18:10 — carson79perhaps you missed the point, you are being called a hypocrite.
And perhaps I didn't.
Tue, 01/05/2010 - 18:18 — woodstockAnd perhaps I didn't.
Although, I would not have opposed an online survey at any point this century.