Former Wake County school board member Beverley Clark wasn't the only speaker firing bombs at Tuesday's school board meeting.
As noted in today's article, critics of the new choice-based student assignment plan and supporters of magnet schools made up much of the turnout for public comment. Several speakers urged the board to make major changes to the new assignment plan.
Speakers also defended the magnet school program, downplaying the data indicating they have larger achievement gaps than non-magnet schools. They also denied that magnets were schools within a school as terms such as "social justice" and "diversity" were often mentioned.
Amelia Lumpkin, a former magnet student, said she came to dispel three magnet school myths. The former Enloe High student is the daughter of Adrienne Lumpkin, a past Enloe PTSA president, who also spoke Tuesday.
Amelia Lumpkin said it's a myth that it's "unfair" because magnet schools have programs other schools don't have. She said Wake doesn't have the resources to provide magnet programs at all schools. She also noted that magnet schools are in older facilities and "less favorable" areas.
"You give some to get some," Lumpkin said.
Lumpkin said the second myth is that equal means equitable.
"All children deserve an equitable education, which is one that serves their needs the best and offers equal opportunity for success and upward mobility upon completion of their education," Lumpkin said. "Each school does not necessarily have to check a certain number of boxes to be right for your child.”
Lumpkin gave the example of how she goes to Davidson College and her sister attends Appalachian State. She said neither school offers the same program and neither would get what they want by switching.
Lumpkin said the third myth is that separating children by different factors allows you to help them to learn better. She said that while differentiation can help with growth, the impact of diversity within a school can’t be minimized
Lumpkin then gave a personal example, citing how at Enloe she had the presence of two theater teachers, a technical theater teacher, a chorus teacher, a band teacher, a music teacher and two dance teachers that showed the school's commitment to arts.
Lumpkin said that her time in the arts program caused her to develop a passion of theater for social justice which is now the specialty in her major.
While noting the safety pitfalls at Enloe, Lumpkin said she had benefited from being around such a diverse student body.
“It goes without saying that I benefited from having a diverse student body," Lumpkin said. "As an African-American female, high-achieving theater person, I always had an eclectic group of friends with different styles of dress, patterns of speech and ways of supporting me.
Please keep magnets alive. The magnet system is a way to ensure sustainable distribution of programs as well as diversity and equity for every school.”
Robert Siegel, whose children have attended Enloe, said that any review of the magnet program should look at the complexity of challenges for educating downtown Raleigh students. He pointed to national studies showing that African American students who attend integrated schools are more likely to graduate and have higher income earning potential.
“I believe that we do have a pro-integration constituency here in Wake County," Siegel said. "And these are inconvenient truths for anyone who wants to exploit the achievement gap, laying the blame at the doorsteps of our magnet schools. And these are inconvenient truths for people who want to complain about the extra federal funding for magnet schools knowing full well that without the funding some of these magnets would become schools of poverty.
And these are inconvenient truths for people who refer to our magnets as a school within a school, implying that the teachers treat the base students differently than students attending from the suburbs. These teachers give 110 percent to every student, every day. Spend some quality time at these schools and learn firsthand what these educators do."
Siegel said that "instead of singling out certain magnet schools," the school system should be lobbying for adequate funding.
Mary Martorella, chairwoman of the League of Women Voters of Wake County, also spoke of the need for extra funding. She also urged the school board to increase scrutiny of the problem of growing concentrations of poverty at some schools.
"Although choice, proximity and stability have value in determining student assignments, they need to be limited when the pursuit leads to high concentrations of poor children in a school," Martorella said. "Your primary focus must be on creating the best possible education for all of our children. It is indeed their civil right.”
Karey Harwood said that the achievement gap in Wake is complex and varied.
Harwood compared the achievement gaps between F&R and non-F&R students at several schools looking at three-year test score averages.
For instance, Harwood said that Lynn Road and Mills Park elementary schools both have gaps of 25 to 28 percentage points. But she said that Mills Park's non-F&R students have a proficiency rate of 96.1 percent compared to 77.6 percent at Lynn Road. She said that's a gap of 18.5 percentage points between two supposedly similar groups.
Then Harwood compared Davis Drive and Stough elementary schools, which have gaps of 21 to 25 percentage points between F&R and non-F&R students. She said the proficiency rate for non-F&R students at Davis Drive is 97.3 percent compared to 81.9 percent at Stough.
Harwood said that to Davis Drive's credit, it has one of the highest proficiency rates for F&R students at 75.8 percent. But she said it also has one of the lowest percentages of F&R students in Wake, which she said has been made even smaller by the discarding the diversity policy.
Harwood said anyone concerned with truth wouldn’t argues that a relative achievement gap shouldn’t be considered the same thing at different schools.
Harwood's last example was Root, Lacy and Hunter elementary schools, which she said all have achievement gaps of more than 50 percentage points. She noted that Hunter educates homeless students. She said the fact that two are non-magnets and one is a magnet tells very little if anything at all.
“We’re wasting time and energy trying to paint the achievement gap as a magnet school problem," Harwood said.
Harwood then noted that on average non-magnets also have large achievement gaps between F&R and non-F&R students.
“Rather than using achievement gaps to attack the magnets, much as the achievement gap was used to attack the now discarded diversity policy, please spend more time and effort looking more closely at the numbers in context," Harwood said. "If the concern for the achievement gap was sincere then a complex array of responses is required for a complex and diverse county. All of our schools need more resources."
Harwood closed by saying "please seek solutions, not scapegoats.”
Heather Koons warned what could happen in Charlotte with the creation of high poverty downtown schools with low test scores could take place in Wake too.
“Some of the downtown schools will become extremely high poverty if you move or weaken magnet programs or continue with the current choice program," Koons said. "In just two years thanks to selective node shifts, the number of schools with poverty rates above 75 percent has shot up. And the old board even knowingly created an all-new high poverty school.”
Koons further commented on Walnut Creek Elementary, complaining that the old board extended their school day without giving teachers extra pay. That's partially being rectified by using federal Race to the Top money to offer signing bonuses and performance pay.
Koons also accused the old school board of not following through on its promise of small class sizes at the crowded Walnut Creek. She added that Wake doesn’t have the money it needs to address the challenges of the poverty schools it now has.
“I propose that you take a really hard look at the path you’ve started down and make a rapid u-turn and go back and fix what the old board has broken before you make any new changes," Koons said.
Adrienne Lumpkin said that she was going to publicly answer the magnet survey.
“Most of our schools in Wake County are very good, whether they’re magnets or not," Lumpkin said. "Our public magnet school program however has been a stalwart champion of Wake County’s education system for more than 30 years. Magnets play a particularly important role in providing expanded educational opportunities for diverse populations of students. The diversity is part and parcel of the learning experience.”
Lumpkin said other school systems have failed when they abandoned diversity.
"It’s critical to maintain magnet opportunities for parents who choose to take part in them," Lumpkin said. "That is our choice plan. Magnet parents and students get a chance for a wonderful experience and give up the luxury and convenience of new buildings and proximity.
That is the compromise that we have been willing to make. Nobody gets everything they want and this has been our give and take.”
Lumpkin said Wake should increase the number of magnet seats by creating more programs and not by displacing more base students. She said new magnet programs should be placed in areas that will draw a heterogeneous populations. She said it would be a mistake to put magnets strictly in wealthy suburban areas
“Magnets shouldn’t be eliminated, disseminated or watered down but rather strengthened to improve our entire school system," Lumpkin said. "Please don’t screw them up.”
Hal Reed pointed back to last fall's school board elections.
“The 2011 Wake County board election was a very clear cut referendum on the 2009 elected board, the work they had done and the plan they had devised for student assignment," Reed said. "It was a shutout, a landslide election last year. The citizens of Wake County voted no, five to nothing in fact. I don’t think the results could have been any clearer.
Had you really wanted choice for Wake County parents, you would have listened of that election. Wake County parents spoke very, very clearly. I don’t think it could have been any clearer. But within a week, in a move of thuggish, cynical politics, Mr. (Superintendent Tony) Tata and the lame duck board moved forward with a hastily patched together assignment plan, spitting in the face of voters. It was a sad, cynical anti-democratic ploy and I hope that it haunts you as you seek other offices."
The vote occurred after the general election but before the runoff election when it was still 4-4 between the Republicans and Democrats.
Reed warned that real estate values will drop in the new plan with people not having a base school.
“Don’t take on the magnet schools if you haven’t finished the assignment plan, and you haven’t finished with the assignment plan,” Reed said.
Former school board candidate Rita Rakestraw also pointed back to the 2011 elections.
“Many of us were elated that Kevin Hill won his re-election runoff in November," Rakestraw said. "And now we are respectfully waiting for the school board to give our children in Wake County a fair shot. We thought that it might happen in January, February, March. Now it’s June.
Nothing in this choice plan prevents the creation of high-poverty schools, In many of our schools, numbers are becoming more and more unbalanced and are heading into a downward spiral. If you don’t vote to make some changes,"
Rakestraw pointed to projected F&R rates for incoming students at several schools to say that Wake is turning into a system of have and have-not schools.
“I ask you to reinstate Policy 6200," Rakestraw said. "Please put a cap on each school so it’s not overwhelmed with too many low-achievement kids. For example, no more than 50 percent below grade level at each school so our teachers are not overburdened, so all our schools in Wake County can strive to be balanced, diverse and we can give each child the attention and resources he or she needs."
Kelly Roberts defended Hunter Elementary, whose achievement gap was noted at last week's meeting.
“I am here to offer my full support for the magnet program," Roberts said. "Nowhere else I know can give my children the tools for global living and the thirst for social justice that characterize their experience with Wake County schools.”
Roberts said the achievement gap data need more context and texture. She said that the board should consider the transient nature of the proximity students and how they're working against "almost insurmountable challenges" to educate them.
“The unilateral and rapid repeal of policy 6200 effectively decimated the strides we were making to provide consistent support for our free and reduced lunch population," Roberts said.
Roberts said that when looking at gaps they should consider the continuum of AG Basics students and homeless children that "creates outliers."
Roberts also said that Hunter is not a school within a school. She said the AG Basics program is "perfectly situated in the neediest populations of downtown Raleigh."
“We have no silos, no AG-only teachers," Roberts said. "Each teacher teaches both core and electives and the entire population benefits. The best education for all is the goal and most teachers have the expertise to spot areas of creative and critical thought in children who might otherwise be overlooked due to their socioeconomic status.”
Roberts said the theme this year is one school as they've been targeting students on the cusp of grade level status.

Comments
Overarching AG program
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 21:08 — Dove314What should a county-wide AG program look like? If there is no current common standard, what should the common standard for curriculum be? Would you have some schools focused only on AG kids? Or do you try to have equitable AG programs county wide at all schools? Or, as currently, do you try a mix of these options? If resource is concentrated in a few schools serving more students, the same expenditure can go further. On the flip side, is it better to spend less on AG curriculum per school but keep the AG kids in the "choice" school? Maybe the AG program curricula needs to be sorted to know whether any component of AG should be a component, as currently, for MS and HS magnet school assignment.
Great questions. I have no
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 22:28 — jenmanGreat questions. I have no answers for you right now but you've got me thinking. . . .
While you're thinking
Thu, 06/07/2012 - 07:49 — Dove314It is a real conundrum as to how to allocate limited resource to benefit the maximum possible number of students with a very diverse array of abilities. While you are pondering, please factor in that AG curricula is very different in MS and HS levels as the kids transition from "AG Math" or "AG Language Arts" in ES with the pull outs to other forms of differentiated instruction in MS (e.g. clustering "teams" by ability level) then on to pretty much dropping the "AG" designation in HS but having a group of teens who are capable of and require more advanced coursework in HS, often translated in to AP coursework or some diverse electives.
At least half our magnets should be year round.
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 20:53 — raleighlauraFor several reasons:
1) we want meaningful proximate choices for all, so people inside the Beltline need access to year round schools
2) as stewards of the taxpayer money, the Board has an obligation to maximize our resources. We could fill the most popular magnets on a year round schedule because people want their kids to have those opportunities, and will put up with a less desirable track to access the programming. Then those magnets would have a larger capacity, meaning fewer new schools to be built.
3) magnets appear, according to the data presented, to not do as good a job as non magnets for ED students. Perhaps a year round calendar that has less time for summer loss would help that situation.
I hope the board will take a real look at this. The last time I brought it up, I was told it would be "too hard." We have a new staff leader and maybe this is an idea that can be looked upon with fresh eyes.
YR Magnets
Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:55 — CaryMomof4I agree and commented on the survey that they should have YR magnets. More students would be able to have access to the program in the YR schools and it would give families an incentive to choose YR schools in areas where they are under chosen.
I also have to disagree with posts below about YR schools not being able to be filled to capacity unless students are forced into them. For kindergarten (since everyone had to apply for those seats this year no one was preassigned) our 2 YR choices have 259 out of 276 seats filled (94% of capacity) and our 4 traditional schools had 376 of 409 seats filled (92% of capacity). They YR schools are filled to greater capacity and I would guess that most families got their calendar preference since there are spots remaining in both. After Round 1, only one YR school was not able to seat 100% of it's first choice K applicants and the other 5 placed all of their 1st choice K applicants.
One big difference in the
Thu, 06/07/2012 - 16:08 — jenmanOne big difference in the new plan is that people can't turn down their YR assignment. In the past, if a family applied for year round but didn't get the track they wanted, they could turn it down and go back to base. Your point is valid, it will just be interesting to see what happens when/if families get a track they don't want.
I wonder if principals will be under more pressure from parents wanting certain track assignments now that they can't go back to base. (Of course MYR changed this dynamic--more people had YR as their base than they did previously)
Some programs would be hard
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 22:25 — jenmanSome programs would be hard to do in a yr calendar--mainly the GT programs because of the electives. But there's no reason why a Leadership, Museums, IB or others couldn't be done on a YR schedule.
Year-round schools are never
Thu, 06/07/2012 - 06:16 — woodstockYear-round schools are never cost effective... not to mention they come with a long list of logistical and planning challeges. There are always unpopular tracks and an insufficient number of willing student to fill them. The only way year-round schools are cost effective (which is their sole purpose) is if they are at or near capacity, and the only way that will occur is if you force students/families onto unappealing tracks.
Year-round school would work great if, to paraphrase an infamous former BoE member, everyone would just go to the schools we tell them to?
People would go YR to get orchestra and foreign language in elem
Thu, 06/07/2012 - 08:21 — raleighlauraIt is a cost benefit question, and the awful MYR experience was all cost and no benefit. YR magnets would carry significant benefits for the students attending. Why not survey all those parents who did not get their children into their desired magnet and ask if they would take a track 2or 3 assignment to that school if one were available?
I am all for anything that
Thu, 06/07/2012 - 10:10 — woodstockI am all for anything that works. So far, year-round schools don't.
school-within-school is common
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 16:58 — bouncing_rockAG classes do not include non-AG students. School within a school is not a phenomenon exclusive to magnets unless someone is suggesting that suburban schools do not separate AG and non-AG students for intstruction. Anyone crying hoarse over school-within-school is asking for removal of differentiated instruction.
Non Magnets are not allowed
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 17:08 — jenmanNon Magnets are not allowed to have the AG kids separated out. AG students get pulled for AG, but that is 1 hour/week for math and 1 hour/week for language arts. Otherwise the kids are together for the most part. When my sons were in 4th grade they differentiated for math. There were 6 4th grade teachers and they divided the kids up into 6 ability groups. Each teacher had one of those groups for math. Otherwise there was no differentiation except for reading groups during centers.
My kids are pulled aside for
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 17:26 — bouncing_rockMy kids are pulled aside for AG math and reading classes. There are two differentiation levels at their school. Six sounds good. Kudos to staff. At my kids' school, rest of the classes (i.e., apart from math and reading) combine both AG and non-AG students.
While the delivery methods vary between schools, I believe there is differentiated instruction offered at all schools.
Eh...
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 17:35 — Bob_SconceNot convinced about that last part. I don't think you can call the 1-hour/week pull-out as differentiated instruction, especially compared to schools where an entire CLASS is AG. My experience in base schools has been that the school like to use the more advanced kids to help teach the less advanced kids. I suppose that's "differentiation" as well, but isn't really what most people mean by the term.
It probably varies from
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 17:45 — bouncing_rockIt probably varies from school to school. My experience with differentiated instruction at magnet and non-magnet schools doesn't give me much cause for concern (with regard to differentiation) were we to go back to base. I think the bigger problem is the ability for public school systems to offer effective differentiation while being cost conscious.
Differentiated instruction
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 17:32 — jenmanDifferentiated instruction within the classroom is offered at all schools but it varies widely by teacher. In reading and math, the kids are together. Our 4th grade year was an anomaly. Every other year, the class was together for all of their subjects. We attended a magnet elem for 4 years and a non-magnet for 4 years. It was the same at both. The only time the kids were separated by AG or achievement level was when they got pulled for their 1 or 2 hours of AG instruction. That was it, except for that 4th grade year.
Who cares about...
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 10:42 — bpuli9999real-estate values? Parents are making these choices.
Exactly
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 15:20 — FSandYOUThis new plan is the least of your concerns with property values.
After allowing Perdue to trash the state for 4 years, even the thought of considering her right hand yes ma'am man for the next 4, after electing a Meeker puppet to run the capital city, and where exactly has she been since being elected?, after refusing to lower the state's gas tax, threatening to toll much of the state's roads and even the drought that has temporarily subsided, your property values had zero chance long before the new assignment plan was ever created.
I just finished watching the
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 10:14 — annettahoggardI just finished watching the video of last night's meeting. All the speakers were articulate, educated, passionate and made a world of sense. Thanks to all who stepped up and spoke last night in support of our wonderful magnet system.
Based on Keung's blog, I
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 17:13 — bouncing_rockBased on Keung's blog, I tend to agree.
Well, that says a lot about
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 10:23 — woodstockWell, that says a lot about you. Considering the data, they made no sense at all. Magnet schools are part of the 30+ year social engineering effort that falied our most vulnerable students year after year after year.
The magnet program is
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 10:45 — shearertwThe magnet program is "wonderful" for those that it benefits. It's just unfortunate that it benefits a select few at the expense of the rest of us peasants stuck outside the castle walls.
What expense? Were you
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 17:06 — bouncing_rockWhat expense? Were you deprived of additional funding on account of the magnets? Spreading the magnet operating expenditure across the system translates to about $85 per student per year.
Expense in terms of the lost
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 17:24 — jenmanExpense in terms of the lost opportunities at non-magnet schools. Before Tata, non magnet elems were not allowed to offer anything 'resembling an elective'. No band and no foreign lang, art, drama, chorus, etc as anything other than a once a week special. Non-magnet middle schools were not allowed to have a 7 period day to fit in another elective. Certain courses were reserved for magnet only even if the non-magnet school had a teacher who could teach it and a way to fit it into the schedule.
As for the cost, everybody pays for these magnet extras but not everybody has an equal chance of getting into them. Seats go first to students who live in the 'right' nodes. One important cost that has never been revealed is that of transportation. Tata mentioned at one work session that magnet transportation causes our efficiency rating to go down, which affects the amount of money we get from the state. But we have never heard a dollar amount. A few board members have asked recently so hopefully that will be part of this review.
The kids who live near the magnets and have not only been displaced but often shipped off to far away schools have also sacrificed so others can enjoy the magnet program.
I am not against magnets, but there are most certainly costs associated with them that go beyond X amount of money for the programs themselves. I'm glad that we are finally (and hopefully) taking an objective look at the magnet program.
Agree, but need to look at other risks
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 07:18 — SatchHHI agree that non-magnets should be able to offer electives, etc. It seems that in most cases, the magnet programs compete well with traditional schools and do draw a good applicant pool. If it were otherwise, then it would be important to make adjustments so the magnets are actually "magnetic" and are appealing enough to draw students in from afar. Otherwise the whole program won't work. When thinking of costs, though, don't forget to factor in the costs of NOT having a magnet program that focuses on facility usage and diversity as well as expanded educational programs (which is the key element that makes them magnetic). Without the magnets, we'd have many, many more high poverty schools and much more local money (none of these federal magnet grants) will need to be spent to help improve performance, retain teachers, staff, etc. at the high poverty schools. I submit that a system of have/have not (high poverty, low poverty schools) is more expensive to operate - if proper resources are provided to educate the students in the high poverty schools - than one with the magnets. Look at Charlotte - they closed 9 or so schools last year because folks didn't want to go there anymore. They were the downtown, racially isolated, high poverty schools. Now those students have to be bused out of their neighborhoods! How about that. It has come full circle.
Look at the fr in current magnets
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 09:48 — raleighlauraWe have many many magnets with a FR population well below the district average. If magnets are tools to reduce concentrations of ED kids, the program needs to be completely retooled such that no magnet has less than 40% ED students. Are magnets there to keep wealthy kids in the system, or to reduce concentrations of poverty?
Exactly what I was thinking!
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 10:24 — jenmanExactly what I was thinking! EB's argument is based on Group 1 magnets and it is a valid argument. But Group 2 magnets are not located in high poverty or racially segregated areas and are not serving a significant low income population.
When most people hear magnet they think of the downtown magnets located in low income neighborhoods. We've got to look at them by groups because the arguments are different for each group.
I don't believe the
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 17:41 — bouncing_rockI don't believe the applicant magnet demographics are representative of the county demographics (western and northern Wake). Which leads me to think most people want the extra offerings but not at the expense of journeying to Raleigh i.e., they express unhappiness at not getting extra offerings but are likely not applying. It begs the question: how important are these extra offerings to some of the people who express unhappiness over magnets?
Secondly, what are the lost opportunities at non-magnets? If we make the assumption that Massengill's strategy was not a barrier, then we need about $150 million more per year to have magnet like expenditure at all schools. Since that appears difficult, there cannot be lost opportunities on that front. And where non-magnet schools could not offer band, etc. does it mean that the principals lost a portion of the per pupil funding? Or did they deploy it elsewhere? Was that alternative deployment wasteful expenditure? Did the students fail to benefit from the services/ goods procured from the alternative deployment?
From the News and
Thu, 06/07/2012 - 03:44 — jeffrey1From the News and Observer, August 23, 2000:
Caroline Massengill brought to Tuesday's board meeting a lengthy list of recommendations for improving the magnet program. Her recommendations deal with the program and equity magnets. Although most recommendations focus on making magnet schools better, some rely on weakening the ability of traditional schools to compete with them. Massengill recommended that:
These recommendations were later implemented by the Board.
I'm not saying that we have
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 22:20 — jenmanI'm not saying that we have to spend magnet money at all of our schools. We wouldn't need to because all of our schools don't need umpteen electives or an IB program.
I can attest to the lost opportunities.
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 20:40 — raleighlauraWhen traditional non magnet schools have teachers who already have months of employment who are willing to teach electives, and principals are willing to schedule electives, and the PTA is willing to buy materials for electives, and the students want to take electives, and the parents want the school to offer electives, but the school is not allowed by policy to offer electives, I think that represents lost opportunity.
And the only people who
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 11:03 — woodstockAnd the only people who benefit are the priviledged students who are granted permission to be bused in to attend... and they would do well regardless of where they attended school. It is as elitist as it gets. The ED kids who the magnet lovers pretend to care about are left to lanquish amongst the riches.
Non-ED kids would generally
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 17:12 — bouncing_rockNon-ED kids would generally do well regardless of the school they attend. You could give them perfunctory education and they would still thrive. Which is one reason why ED kids at low F&R schools do better since the teachers have more time to spend on the ED kids. I suspect you know that but wouldn't acknowledge it lest it shatters the anti-magnet fantasies.
"Which is one reason why ED
Thu, 06/07/2012 - 06:18 — woodstock"Which is one reason why ED kids at low F&R schools do better since the teachers have more time to spend on the ED kids."
That is just not true. In fact, data was presented in a recent BoE meeting that showed the exact opposite. ED kids fair better in non-magnets than they did in magnet schools. This has been an issue for years and the left continues to ignore it.
As a whole, ED kids do not
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 17:28 — jenmanAs a whole, ED kids do not do better at low poverty schools. Look at the data and you will see that some of these so called 'better' schools that kids got shipped off to did worse with their ED kids than the ED students' own 'neighborhood' schools. Performance of ED kids does not go up with lower poverty rates. It sounds logical and seems like it should be true but it just isn't.
Too simplistic
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 07:30 — SatchHHThat summary is too simplistic Jenman. I remember when that data came out and there was much made of the fact that the students who get bused to the suburbs are those in the higher poverty areas where magnets are located. Thus, probably more challenging ED students, which is why magnets are in their neighborhood. The ED students in "neighborhood" schools, by definition likely have fewer challenges - as their area was not identified as needing a magnet school yet. In other words, you're not comparing apples and apples. I belive you know this, so I wonder why you're puting out this simplistic stuff when that's just what the county doesn't need (more simplistic schlock). There are MANY research studies showing the academic benefits for low income students when they attend low poverty schools instead of their neighborhood high poverty school. Many years and many studies! It's important to not look superficially at the Wake County data. And - the WCPSS busing data showed that some demographic groups performed much higher when they went to the suburbs - so it's complicated. I think Ms. Harwood and others at the board meeting made some good points about the complexity of it all. The tape is worth watching.
I don't agree that the ED
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 10:19 — jenmanI don't agree that the ED kids gettting bused out are more 'challenging' than the ED kids who attend their neighborhood schools in other areas. Certainly, some are coming from rougher neighborhoods but I don't think as a whole we can say that they are more challenging. I'm uncomfortable with this whole idea of 'urban' vs 'rural'or suburban poverty and that somehow one is worse or more challenging than the other. I wish trailerparkgirl was here because she's loaded with info about this topic.
I think we also need to remember that it isn't just kids in downtown/SE Raleigh who are getting bused out for diversity. There are ED kids all over the county who are getting bused to different schools for diversity. I realize that it is concentrated downtown but I think we are continuing to look at these issues through 30-40 year old lenses.
Spin
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 07:34 — starsonoursWow I am dizzy from all the spinning....
I guess that runs counter to
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 17:51 — bouncing_rockI guess that runs counter to the fashionable perception that magnets fail to deliver on ED achievement. If low F&R schools fare no better with the ED population, what hope does a magnet teacher have when she/ he is dealing with serious instruction hampering disciplinary issues nearly every day?
So...
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 20:44 — Bob_SconceCute, but it's a little more complicated than that. In base schools, ED performance appears completely unrelated to how large of a percentage ED students are in those schools. ED kids at magnet schools, however, generally underperform base schools.
Look, for example, at the relative performances of ED students at Fox Rd. and Bugg.
Bugg is amazing. They
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 22:10 — jenmanBugg is amazing. They outshine most of the other magnets in terms of achievement and they have a fairly high F&R rate. They need to study that school to see what they are doing right.
phenomenal principal
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 07:31 — SatchHHI agree about Bugg. One key is that they've had an amazing principal for many, many years. She just retired last year, so I hope Bugg contiues on via it's great staff and a great new principal.
I agree about the principal.
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 10:03 — jenmanI agree about the principal. People forget how important a strong principal is in the success of a school. I've heard much the same about Combs. Yes, the program is good but it is really their long time principal that drives their success.
Absolutely
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 10:55 — Bob_SconceWe tend to focus on teacher quality, but an excellent principal is critical. Jimmy Sposato at WMS, for example, really inspires kids and teachers to do well. It would be a very different school without him.
Sposato IS terrific
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:34 — localyankMy kids had him at Powell ES first as assistant principal and then lead principal. He was terrific as both, but he really stepped up when he took over. His speech to the kids when they left Powell (which I heard twice) was really memorable, and I think challenged the kids to stay on the right path. Glad to hear he is doing as well at the middle school level.
agree
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:01 — sam123456sposato is an awesome prinicipal
I hear he's got a few
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 15:11 — jeffrey1I hear he's got a few "holes" in his armour, though,
One of the key problems here
Wed, 06/06/2012 - 20:34 — woodstockOne of the key problems here and why many oppose magnet schools as they exist now in Wake County is that it is the privileged, higher-income, and successful students who are lavished with extra programs and resources while the ED students are left to languish. I know this makes no sense, but it is the way it is and there is data to prove it.
BS
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 07:33 — SatchHHThat's just not true about the magnets Woodstock. Go visit a few - and not just the IB magnets. You're not seeing the real picture of what's happening.
Sorry, but the data support
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:08 — woodstockSorry, but the data supports my characterization, not yours.
This has been the problem all along. You have an idealized vision of what magnet should be, but it does not mesh with reality. It's like the idealized vision of Communism where everyone is provided for and they all sit around the campfire at night singing Kumbayah vs. the stark, brutal reality and indignities of it.