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The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? How will the new choice-based assignment system work now that the socioeconomic diversity policy has been eliminated? How will Superintendent Tony Tata lead the state's largest district through more budget cuts and possible layoffs? How will the board respond to growth and the school construction program?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

Slight dip in Wake's graduation rate

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What's not good news today is the latest update on Wake's graduation results.

For the third year in a row, Wake's four-year graduation rate dropped. The latest figure is 78.6 percent as of the 2008-09 school year, down from 78.8 percent last year.

It's been dropping since it was at 82.6 percent after the 2005-06 school year.

Wake still has a pretty high graduation rate compared to other large districts.

During that same time period, the state's four-year graduation rate has increased. The state's graduation rate in 2005-06 was 68.3 percent. It's now at 71.7 percent, up from 70.3 percent the previous year.

David Holdzkom, Wake's assistant superintendent for evaluation and research, said it's gotten harder since the state required students to pass the end-of-couse exams in Algebra 1, Biology, Civics and Economics, English I, and U.S. History to graduate.

Wake is going to have to seriously ramp up the graduation rate if it's going to make the gaol of having all students graduate by 2014.

The biggest disparities in Wake still exist with minority students and those who are low income or have disabilities. Black students have a graduation rate of 63.6 percent while it's 51.7 percent for Hispanic students.

It's at 54.6 percent for low-income students, 57.1 percent for students with disabilities and 39.5 percent for those who are limited English proficient.

Click here for the graduation rate info. 

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And yet.......

I wonder who will get pay raises this year?

Seems to me that the future/new BoE just got all the justification they need to either FIRE or at least re-assigned Delbert Burns, Chuck Delaney and the rest of the over-paid, bloated management of the WCPSS.

Hopefully this information will make it to potential "new-comers" and they will relocate elsewhere.

I just bet Rosa and Patty are so PROUD of their achievements!

"Driven" to drop out....

I am not surprised by the high drop out rate at WCPSS....   The at-risk groups that the BoE old-times claim to want to help are the ones that get reassigned and bused upto 3 hours total per day or more!      

The school board, Del Burns & Dulaney clearly DO NOT VALUE these kid's time (or our tax dollars or environment).  

I would have dropped out of school too if I was forced to spend almost a half school-day every day just commuting!!!!   

Parental involvement is more important than a bus ride!    Stop separating kids from their parents and their closest geographic school!

Can you prove:Kids who

Can you prove:

Kids who dropped out = rode a bus three hours?

30-60 minutes less bus time= increased parental involvement?  If anything, getting home earlier allows more time to get in trouble.

Thinking that riding a bus 15-30 more minutes a day each way is all that separates these kids from graduation sounds stupid doesn't it.

Can you prove

Can you prove:

1) Kids who did not drop out = rode a bus three hours (i.e. being bussed increases the graduation rate)?

2) 30 - 60 minutes more bus time does not equal decreased parental involvement? (less bus time = "allows more time to get in trouble" - What do you think they do on the bus sit like angels and/or study? If so,  why do many office referrels come from bus drivers, especially on the 60+ minute routes?)

IMO here's how it works. Certain people have low expections of and believe the economically challenged are not capable of anything except failure and their parents won't be involved anyway, therefore, if there are > 40% of F&R in a school, the school cannot be "healthy" (i.e. the status quo group). They believe that an ED student needs to sit next to an NED student, so the NED student can be their role model because NED = healthy and ED = unhealthy. Thus, they create a policy that reassignments and bussing shall be used such that schools shall have < 40% F&R and they attach the word "diversity" to it to make it sound good. That way if anyone disagrees they can accuse them of being anti-diversity.

Thanks to the 'healthy schools is more important than healthy students' status quo crowd, thousands of F&R students, some as young as five or six, have to get up early for a 60+ minute bus ride during which they not surprisingly at some point misbehave leading to an office referrel. The status quo response is see, see those F&R kids are bad and create unhealthy schools. Additionally, many ED students do not have the same access to pre-school education, reading and vocabulary as their NED peers. Therefore, more of them start school behind their peers and the status quo say see, see. Often the bus is late arriving but the students need their breakfast, so while the NED kids are starting their morning work, the ED kids are still trying to eat, so now they do not have the same amount of school work focus and the status quo say see, see those ED students are academically behind and can't learn and create unhealthy schools. Also, some educators may track them lower. Additionally, as the school is 10 miles away and not on a public transportation route even if their parents wanted to be involved they cannot be, so the status quo say see see those ED parents aren't involved. The ED students do get to sit next to Muffy and Buffy talking about how Mommy and Daddy took them to the Hanna Montana concert at $90 a ticket, naturally making the ED kid feel wonderful about their lot in life. Not surprisingly, those ED students do not develop positive feelings about school, and by HS are ready to drop out and the status quo say see, see told you those kids create unhealthy schools that's why we can't have schools "inundated with 'those' kids" (thanks, Lori Millberg). It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

How about instead of automatically accusing those who do not agree that the current assignment policy is the end all be all of being anti-diversity, racist and segregationist, people like yourself 1) stop and think through the bigotry that the current policy is based upon, 2) stop and think about the downsides of the current policy and 3) if you don't believe in these kids or that their communities can ever be better, please just step aside and give people who do believe a chance.

 

Of course he can't prove it

Stats Quo supporters can't wipe their own rumps!

High school students work

High school students work part time. They drop out when school + homework + long inconvenient commute in and out of school  interfere with work.

questions for BoE

http://venitapeyton.com/2009/08/questions-for-school-board-candidate.html

Thank you Venita

for being willing to EVEN consider taking on these thugs.  Mr. Sutton will ONLY last until the term is up in 2011!  With the same old timer, out of touch, clueless policies that HE supports all you need to do, if you desire, is to continue getting out your message between now and then.  That is a seat that needs SERIOUS help and he can't offer it.  He'll be JUST another puppet!  You sound like the person who could bring the change needed to the children of D4 so I hope you will continue to fight for what you believe in!
You are spot on when you say, " The Wake County Board has no desire to supervise the Superintendent."  The current board, 8 of 9, is spineless and couldn't poor water unless someone showed them how. 
In about 8 weeks we WILL change the coarse these NON-THINKERS have put us on!  We're ABSOLUTELY going to vote out NON-THINKER Horace Tart, as he has NOTHING to show for his last 4 years.  No Vo-tech, No family friendly voting record, NO common sense and nothing except yes votes for all the issues that have harmed our children's futures and our families lives!.  Good ole boy politics are FINISHED in D2!
Just say NO to Horace Tart!

WCPSS vs. CMS

Here are a comparison of test results between WCPSS and CMS.  You can see that CMS beats WCPSS in many areas and continues a trend of CMS improving relative to WCPSS.  CMS did not report "All" numbers and WCPSS did not report "non-F&R" numbers.

2008-09 EOG Reading (with retests)

 Group  Wake  Char-Meck
 All 74.7   
 White 89.2  89 
 Black 52  54 
 Hispanic 51  55 
 F&R 50  51 
 Non-F&R   80 

 

2008-09 EOG Math (with retests)

Group  Wake  Char-Meck 
 All 84.5   
 White 94.5  94 
 Black 66.6  67 
 Hispanic 72.6  75 
 F&R 67.5  68 
 Non-F&R   87 

 

2008-09 Algebra I EOC

 Group Wake  Char-Meck 
 All 74.6  
 White  90 92.8 
 Black 49.9  69 
 Hispanic 59.7  76.9 
 F&R 52.6  70.5 
 Non-F&R   86.8 

 

 2008-09 Algebra II EOC

 Group Wake  Char-Meck 
 All 80.3   
 White 87.1  85.7 
 Black 60.5  63.3 
 Hispanic 74.2  66.9 
 F&R 63.7  65.9 
 Non-F&R   78.9 

 

2008-09 Biology EOC

 Group Wake  Char-Meck 
 All 79.5   
 White 92.4  92.4 
 Black 57.8  67.3 
 Hispanic 66.3  70.6 
 F&R 57.6  67.2 
 Non-F&R   84.8 

 

2008-09 Chemistry EOC 

 Group Wake  Char-Meck 
 All 87.2   
 White 91.1  82 
 Black 68.3  62.6 
 Hispanic 82.6  72.7 
 F&R 71.2  63.3 
 Non-F&R   78.6 

 

2008-09 Civics & Economics EOC

 Group Wake  Char-Meck 
 All 79.5   
 White 92.5  91.8 
 Black 58.7  66.4 
 Hispanic 59.9  67.9 
 F&R 56.4  63.8 
 Non-F&R   84.4 

 

2008-09 English I EOC

 Group Wake  Char-Meck 
 All 79.8   
 White 93.4  92 
 Black 62.5  66.4 
 Hispanic 59.4  66.9 
 F&R 59.2  63.7 
 Non-F&R   85.4 

 

2008-09 Geometry EOC

 Group Wake  Char-Meck 
 All 80.1   
 White 90.4  85.3 
 Black 56.6  60 
 Hispanic 70.7  70.7 
 F&R 59.7  65 
 Non-F&R   76.7 

 

2008-09 Physical Science EOC

 Group Wake  Char-Meck 
 All 66.1   
 White 82.3  79.3 
 Black 52.4  54.3 
 Hispanic 64.9  54.9 
 F&R 52.9  55.3 
 Non-F&R   65.6 

 

2008-09 Physics EOC

 Group Wake  Char-Meck 
 All 92.1   
 White 94.2  95 
 Black 72.6  65.3 
 Hispanic 80.6  84.1 
 F&R 75.8  68.1 
 Non-F&R   90.5 

 

2008-09 US History EOC

 Group Wake  Char-Meck 
 All 76.5   
 White 88.6  91.2 
 Black 52  67.4 
 Hispanic 67.7  72.4 
 F&R 50.6  65.4 
 Non-F&R   84.9 

 

 

Big Differences....

It's clear that Wake has a lot to learn from CMS, even if you completely ignore the busing aspect.  How does CMS do so well with US History, Algebra I and Biology? 

Among the F&R populations, those differences are huge -- 30% more F&R students pass their US History EOCs than do Wake students.  Now, there's still a long way to go from 65.4%, but, it's a considerable improvement from Wake's performance with the same group. 

 

Be careful with the conclusions

Be careful with the conclusions you make from the data, particularly in regards to the EOC.  There are many student participation variables that can have a significant impact on the results. 

I am not discouraging you from looking at the data; to the contrary I think there is a lot of good information in it.  That information could lead to valuable lessons.  You just need to ask some questions before you can reach a conclusion.

For example, is chemistry required in CMS and an elective in WCPSS? Most kids I know won't elect to take a class they think they will fail.  If a class is an elective, the passing rate will likely be significantly higher than if it is a requirement.

Also, is the sequence the same between systems?  If in WCPSS kids take the US History EOC as sophomores and in CMS they take it as juniors, that could lead to a higher pass rate at CMS.  The unfortunate truth is that a lot of the sophomores who fail the US History EOC won't be taking any EOCs as a junior because they will drop out.  On the most general level, for high school EOCs, the later the test is taken (9, 10, 11 or 12) the higher the score should be.

These are just hypothetical examples of the types of things that need to be considered.  Unfortunately, standardized testing doesn't always lead to comprable results.  They can, but you still have to pay attention to outside variables such as those I mentioned.  You are right, Bob, there is a lot to learn, but we need to be sure it is the right thing.

Clearly WCPSS has issues

Clearly WCPSS has issues with history.  They would probably do better if they'd stop trying to rewrite it.

So CMS F&Rs beat WCPSS

So CMS F&Rs beat WCPSS F&Rs in every area except for Chemistry and Physics. 

Must be those long bus rides where they can think about the combustion of diesel fuel and the theory of relativity as they pass by school after school to the "golden nodes" user speaks of.

Superintendent could lose job

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1637745.html

12 WCPSS Schools Earn State’s Highest Recognition

http://www.wcpss.net/news/2009_august6_abc/

 (not WEP, but let the spin begin)

Spin This

6% of Wake County schools rated Honors Schools of Excellence.  Guilford County (with a higher F&R population) had 9% of their schools rated Honors Schools of Excellence.

Maybe there is something to their Mission Possible program which moves teachers to the students instead of busing students all over.

Note that the handful of WCPSS honors schools do not meet Wake's own diversity policy.

Abysmal

The district should be hanging its head in shame -- there are 158 schools in the county, and fewer than 10% of them are where they should be.  Putting this press release out is like saying "Good news!  Three of our cheerleaders aren't pregnant this year!"

Good One!

Good one!

How much does anyone want to

How much does anyone want to bet that WEP will come out with an issue of "In Context" touting the good news on ABC scores but will not mention the decline in graduation rates?

There's been drop outs since

There's been drop outs since the the beginning of time and there will be drop outs till the end of time. GET OVER IT people!!!

Of course, that's not the

Of course, that's not the question.  The questions are: (1) do current policies increase or decrease drop out rates AND, more specifically, (2) do policies that consume resources, disrupt families and communities help those intended.

Answer to Q1 - current policy increases drop out rates

Answer to Q2 - current policy does NOT help minorities OR the F&R population.

Healthy schools, not so

Healthy schools, not so healthy students.

Healthy schools...with a high drop out rate. Hmm...isn't that like saying we've got healthy hospitals with a lot of sick people walking out of them?

As in any dynamic system

As in any dynamic system not 100% of the schools are healthy all the time and even within any school there will be diversity (sorry) of performance... we know that 1/3 of the schools still have too many poor kids and the diversity policy has not reached all of them yet ... it is a continuous process ... I don't know if 100% healthy schools = 100% graduation rate or 100% graduation rate = 100% health schools.. I think you are putting too much on a healthy school equating to measurements like test scores, graduation rates, etc.  They are all not that closely linked but not to the simple extent you are thinking...

It's 100% healthy STUDENTS = 100% graduation rate

SCHOOLS don't either graduate or not graduate, STUDENTS either graduate or do not graduate.

The focus should be -- on students, not schools.

NOT when you are TALKING

NOT when you are TALKING ABOUT WCPSS......

the focus is ALWAYS on schools, NOT students...

Uh...

If Healthy Schools are not linked to measurements like test scores, graduation rates, etc..., then how can anybody recognize a Healthy School?  What is the mechanism for saying "School A is healthy; School B isn't"?

If there is no mechanism, then the phrase is void of any actual meaning -- it's higher-ed jargon, like when lawyers use latin, intended to communicate "I know more about this than you do, so trust me and don't ask questions."

 

Don't be stupid user. You

Don't be stupid user. You know ALL the data shows that the diversity policy has had 0% impact on student performance, particular with the low income students it targets.  This new data also shows it has had a 0% positive and possibly a negative impact on graduation. 

 I know helping students perform better, learn and graduate is not a concern of yours.  As long as the school is a nice place to teach and collect a pay check, your happy.

I now owe WSCA $3.

“You know ALL the data

“You know ALL the data shows that the diversity policy has had 0% impact on student performance, particular with the low income students it targets. 

 

It must be late because you are falling behind again.  I think you are getting ES and HS graduation rate confused.  Below is the performance of ED student on EOC compared to the % of low income kids in the school.  As you can see if all the ED kids could be sent to Apex, PC and GH their performance would be near NEDs.  Once you get near 40% it is a toss up on whether a kid passes or not.

  

School %F&R ED Pass
Garner 36% 50%
Millbrook 30% 52%
Athens Drive 26% 55%
Sanderson 26% 62%
Cary 23% 68%
Middle Creek 22% 53%
Fuquay-Varina 20% 55%
Wakefield 20% 55%
Holly Springs 17% 58%
Wake Forest-Rolesville 16% 57%
Leesville Road 15% 56%
Apex 8% 60%
Panther Creek 7% 68%
Green Hope 5% 69%

 

ED pass rate for WCPSS = ED

ED pass rate for WCPSS = ED pass rate for CMS, nuff said.

$4 on the way to WSCA

Wait...

You're making a logical fallacy -- the fact that 69% of ED students at Green Hope currently pass does not mean that you could replace them with ED students from, say, Athens Drive and keep the same numbers.  That's a bit like saying "Pittsburgh won the superbowl.  So, you will be a better football player if you move to Pittsburgh."

Using that logic and your data, we should be moving F&R kids from Apex to Cary.

 

So, what magic wand are you going to use?

"As you can see if all the ED kids could be sent to Apex, PC and GH their performance would be near NEDs."

So, what magic wand are you going to use to send all the ED kids to < 10% F&R HS, when the district F&R rate for HS is 22%?

Besides what I see up there are F&R rates and ED pass rates that are all over the place: PC has 7% F&R and 68% pass rate, but Cary also has a 68% pass rate with 23% F&R and Athens has a pass rate of 55% with 26% F&R, but LHS has only one more percentage pass at 56% even though it only has 15% F&R.

The important question is what is different about Cary and Sanderson than the rest?

You can bring up <10% F&R schools until the cows come home, but when the district F&R rates range from 22% for HS to 32% for ES it is sort of pointless. If you bussed to perfection to get every school as low as possible and "spread" those "unhealthy" F&R kids perfectly evenly, the HS would all be 22% and the ES would all be 32%. Then what? Will all the schools then be like MCHS at 22% F&R where only 53% pass -- whoopee. Or instead of WCPSS spending so much time and effort worrying about if node 123 is going to be at Cary or Athens can they spend that energy on figuring out why Athens doesn't perform more like Cary?

More importantly can more energy be spent on figuring out how to reach kids K-3 to lay a good foundation for their future. Bussing them to two different schools miles from home during that time hasn't been working on the individual student level.

You have to do work to graduate, oh no!

Unbelievable. How can students be expected to pass tests and do work to actually pass school and graduate? Come on folks, how can you not be expected to actually learn something and be able to show that you learned something after 12 years of school. Most schools around the country have tests that students must pass to graduate HS. You have to take tests to get into college, why not to graduate? "David Holdzkom, Wake's assistant superintendent for evaluation and research, said it's gotten harder since the state required students to pass the end-of-couse exams in Algebra 1, Biology, Civics and Economics, English I, and U.S. History to graduate." - It is absurd that the state wouldn't require exams. You want to know why the graduation rate keeps going down? It isn't that the states require tests and HS students actually have to do work, it is the system that educates them has failed to prepare them for what is required of them in college and in the community. They are so worried about school assignments, achieving numbers to get more money, spending tax dollars on going to court so they can mandate year round schools, catching up on laws they forgot to follow and trying to stop parents from being involved in the schools, they forgot to actually educate our kids. It can't wait until 2014 either. And then to pass off the low numbers and blame the minority and low income students is just shameful. "The biggest disparities in Wake still exist with minority students and those who are low income or have disabilities. Black students have a graduation rate of 63.6 percent while it's 51.7 percent for Hispanic students. It's at 54.6 percent for low-income students, 57.1 percent for students with disabilities and 39.5 percent for those who are limited English proficient. "
Maybe the elections in October will change something.

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.

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