Could Wake County teachers be meeting in the mornings this fall instead of in the afternoons for their professional learning community time?
That's an idea being explored by school board member John Tedesco. In that scenario, teachers would meet in the mornings with the possibility of delaying the start of classes.
Whether that option will be doable this fall is a question.
The model that Tedesco is talking about was used before this school year at some high schools.
For instance, Sanderson High's regular schedule in 2008-09 was from 8:05 to a.m. 3 p.m. But on Tuesdays, teachers would begin meeting in PLTs at 7:30 with the school day officially starting at 8:30, The 7:30 start wasn't a problem because teachers are supposed to arrive 30 minutes before classes begin.
Sanderson students who drove in didn't have to come in until 8:30. Bus riders still came in as early as 7:30 a.m. They were watched by administrators and other staff until 8:30 a.m.
Wake NCAE President Jennifer Lanane, who served on the committee that recommended the Wednesday early dismissals, said they didn't advocate meeting in the mornings because it would prevent teachers from being able to extend the meetings past an hour,
Sanderson High School Principal Greg Decker said that having the time at the end of the day also allows him to observe the various PLTs. Before this year, he was among the staff who monitored students while the teachers met.
Lanane had previously opposed releasing early on Fridays. But she urged board members after Tuesday's student achievement committee meeting to use Friday if that's what it takes to keep the early dismissals.
But both the options proposed by Tedesco and Lanane might not work because of the new bell schedules proposed for the 2010-11 school year.
As you guys recall, school was lengthened by 10 minutes a day this school year to build up enough time to allow schools to dismiss early each Wednesday.
The resolution the new board majority adopted on Dec. 1 that ended the Wednesday early dismissals after the end of the school year had called on the superintendent to make no other adjustments to the school day or calendar.
But the bell schedules proposed for this fall eliminate those extra 10 minutes.
Bob Snidemiller, senior director for transportation, explained that the old board's decision to add the time at the end of the day for the first tier schools while adding it at the beginning for the third tier schools had cut their bus window by 10 minutes. He said it had led to more late buses on the third tier.
Snidemiller said keeping those extra 10 minutes for this fall while also serving 2,000 new riders and four new schools could take 50 additional buses, double the amount he said is needed to put schools back on their 2008-09 schedule.
Barring the board coming up with the money for 50 new drivers, plus the additional buses before Tuesday's bell schedule vote, the banked time will be gone for this fall.
The loss of the banked time might not make it possible to start school later one day a week. Schools like Sanderson had a long enough day that they could lose 30 minutes a week and still stay above the state requirement of 1,000 instructional hours a year. Elementary and middle schools may not have that option.
Tedesco said he'd check with staff if they could still do the late starts and stay above 1,000 hours without the banked time.
The loss of banked time probably means you can't dismiss school early once a week.
The school board needs to decide soon on alternatives. The resolution adopted by the board in December said they had to develop a plan by the end of this school year to accommodate the PLTs this fall.
The message board members got at Tuesday's committee meeting is that professional learning teams/professional learning communities do work. The board heard from groups from five schools that have been holding PLT time since before this school year.
Teachers talked about how the PLT time has allowed them to better educate their students.
Sanderson High School teachers credited PLTs with sharply raising the school's Algebra scores to among the best in the district.
Millbrook High teachers credited the PLTs with reducing the failure rates in Earth Science, among other topics. Principal Dana King thanked the board for having scheduled the PLT time this year.
Fuquay-Varina High School teachers credited the PLTs with lowering the dropout rate and raising test scores. Principal Ed McFarland called PLTs the most important tool for student achievement he had seen in 15 years.
Heritage Middle Principal Dhedra Lassiter credited PLTs with raising the school's state end-of-grade math scores.
Northwoods Elementary teachers credited PLTs with raising the percentage of first-grade students performing at grade level. Principal Kerry Chisnall asked the board to change its decision to end the Wednesday early dismissals.
UPDATE
Click here for the Northwoods Elementary presentation.
Click here for the Sanderson High presentation.
Click here for the Millbrook High presentation.
Comments
OMG Stop The insanity
Mon, 04/19/2010 - 07:36 — RMC10Everything is reverting to the exact way it was. PLC's could be one Sat. morning a month, could be 7-9 one evening a month, or 4-6 one evening a month. A group of teachers meeting, and I've never once seen a report on anything they do, discuss, never heard good or bad from those meetings. I'm even okay with dismissal 1/2 hour early first and last Wed. of month.
BUT - wait for it - there is no need for a 1/2 day off and sending small children home without supervision, while parents who are lucky enough in this rapidly deteriorating RTP economic to still have a job have to take off, hire extra child care, or take a chance that nothing bad will happen to their kids from 1-4.
PLC monies offered by the Wake ________ something, who gave the big funding of this money last year, probably dangling that $$$ carrot again for continuance because of the budget shortfall.
Unless parents are going to receive a detailed report of what goes on in these meetings , and I have heard nothing, this is something I had hoped would be gone, and it was promised they'd go away. Replacing Wacky Wednesdays with later mornings - that's even more disruptive to parents, unless Wake is planning on picking up at regular time and have a meeting place in the gym until after the teachers get done chatting, and reading a teacher's magazine. BIGGER FISH TO FRY IN WAKE COUNTY THAN THIS minnow we're wasting time and money on.
ON THEIR TIME, NOT MY DIME - the new anti PLC Motto
where to start with this post?
Mon, 04/19/2010 - 08:11 — stepbystepEverything is reverting to the exact way it was. PLC's could be one
Sat. morning a month, could be 7-9 one evening a month, or 4-6 one
evening a month. A group of teachers meeting, and I've never once seen
a report on anything they do, discuss, never heard good or bad from
those meetings. I'm even okay with dismissal 1/2 hour early first and
last Wed. of month.
I could spend quite a bit of time writing about the value of the PLTs and how unhelpful your above suggestions are for their purposes, but since you haven't done your homework, I won't do it for you. At least you could read the 3 presentations connected with Keung's post. I think minutes are taken at PLTs. Have you asked teachers at your school to see the minutes or better yet to talk with teachers about the effectiveness of PLTs? I've been very impressed by how our school's staff has fully embraced the time and made significant strides in addressing student achievement.
ON THEIR TIME, NOT MY DIME - the new anti PLC Motto
Well, no matter the makeup
Mon, 04/19/2010 - 08:09 — danofncWell, no matter the makeup of the school board, let's just hope you never write a post about improving student achievement, closing the achievement gap, or any other such "nonsense".
The half-days you complain about will still happen. Those early-release days are not part of WW, so the "1pm-4pm" complaint is bogus.
Making the meetings once a month eliminates a large part of the benefit of PLTs.
Detailed report of what goes on in these meetings
Mon, 04/19/2010 - 07:49 — HereWeGoCall 850-1600 and ask they can give you copy paper boxes full of reports
Why is it necessary to lose
Sat, 04/17/2010 - 08:20 — ktherrienWhy is it necessary to lose any school time or change the schedule of teaching time? Why can't the PLTs take place from 3:45-4:45 after school?
Partly because they can't
Sat, 04/17/2010 - 14:24 — danofncPartly because they can't start them as soon as the bell rings.
Partly because something that is meant to benefit the entire district shouldn't be a burden to only one involved group.
As much as some parents complain about inconvenience, you'd think they'd understand that concept.
Are teachers hourly
Mon, 04/19/2010 - 08:14 — woodstockAre teachers hourly employees? I thought they were professionals committed to doing what it takes to get the job done well. What are PLTs, an hour a week? Why did the entire system have to be adjusted to accommodate that?
Teachers are State employees
Mon, 04/19/2010 - 10:08 — user12345Teachers are State employees and the State appears to think of Education in hours ... 1000 hours of education in 180 days between this date and that date all driven by months of employment .... public education is more like a factory ....
So, in your opinion, are
Mon, 04/19/2010 - 10:25 — woodstockSo, in your opinion, are teachers hourly employees or do they hold professional positions?
Professionals treated as
Mon, 04/19/2010 - 11:14 — user12345Professionals treated as hourly employees
isolation
Mon, 04/19/2010 - 08:23 — turnerk1I think one of the hard things to understand about a teacher's job is that it is very isolating. They must stay in their classrooms for almost the entire day teaching, by themselves or with an aide if it is early elementary grades. During planning periods they have work to do (often in their classrooms) at a time when very few other people also have a planning period so they can't meet for something like a PLT because everyone else is teaching. After school time is often spent supervising children who are late leaving school, supervising clubs, or meeting about individual students who have IEP's, parent meetings, etc. It is actually very hard to find time when a large group of teachers can meet together during the school day or even immediately after the school day every week because of the variety of things that all teachers must do as part of their jobs. The value of setting aside specific PLT time is really just a reflection of how difficult it is to schedule regular meetings with specific groups in a school.
Thanks for the thoughtful
Mon, 04/19/2010 - 09:52 — woodstockThanks for the thoughtful response. I generally agree that PLTs make sense and perhaps should be accommodated in some manner.Maybe it could be done is a way that does not impact bus schedules and families so much.
What if half the teachers meet and the other half organize students activities -- then alternate each week. That way teachers get their time in PLTs (2 x per month) and families do not have to accommodate odd schedules on PLT days.
idea
Mon, 04/19/2010 - 21:03 — turnerk1I think ideas like the one you mention would probably work better in an elementary school. Once you get into middle and high school the schedules get much more complex and it becomes harder to organize student activities for 2500 students.
(No subject)
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 21:03 — louiselee44So...
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 14:22 — Bob_SconceIt's now too late to make additional changes in the schedule for the next year, which starts in 2.5 months. In my view, district-wide PLTs should be put on hiatus until the 2011-2012 school year. That gives the district a good 9 months to figure out if and how to implement them, then plenty of time to change the schedules.
So
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 14:33 — Dove314So here is something that most teaching staff agree has had tangible positive benefit on student achievement at multiple schools yet it should just be written off until some future school year where it is more convenient to implement because the board majority didn't like WW's and voted them out of existence, cancelled 5 of 7 Student Achievement committee meetings where this could have been examined earlier, and has waited too far into the planning to sort out how to keep them for the 2010-2011 school year?
So...
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 14:50 — Bob_SconceCarp all you want about the past decisions this board has made. The fact is that it's April, there's a severe budget crunch, and nobody has really done a good job of thinking through PLT alternatives for next year. That means that it will be May or June before plans could be fully fleshed out. And, recall that a lot of district staff is likely in "shell-shock" mode, uncertain about whether they'll have their jobs. If you've ever been in that situation, then you know how work, even urgent work, grinds to a halt.
Hindsight seems to be saying that keeping WW's wouldn't have happened anyway since they would have required 50 additional buses.
The Time To Flesh Out Alternatives
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 15:02 — chaboardwas BEFORE kiling the original. But you're right, there's now no time. So since they have demonstrated value and there is no alternative in place the board should swallow their pride, admit they screwed up, and keep the current PLT in place for next year while they take their time to actually do their job RIGHT this time. To do otherwise at this point is clearly putting their own political standing over student achievement.
Admit what exactly?
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 21:06 — g88ky07The entire process for PLT's was flawed from the moment our last board rammed it through. There's nothing to admit, it's called a shot of sanity, reinstated.
As for not enough time, bull, we have a budget armageddon and it's going to do nothing except multiply the following year. If something needs to be scrapped, changed, canned or rammed through, to cope and not do any further damage to our teachers, children and schools, or as little as possible, I have no doubt it can be done. We will just have to deal with it no matter how short notice it is or what ever else goes along with it.
So...
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 15:30 — Bob_Sconceis that even an option? I think that's already been shown to be very expensive -- the blog post mentioned 50 buses. And, it would be another change in the bus schedules.
Any PLT plan should go through a good review and design process with plenty of parental notification and input. No plan that could be implemented now would meet this standard, and the previous plan certainly doesn't meet it.
With Dan
Sat, 04/17/2010 - 07:55 — Dove314If parental notification and input aren't required for student assignments made in April, that shouldn't be the main complaint here.
We don't have bell schedules yet. Do you think anyone has the road signs on order yet for the school zone time changes? Does that mean we should hold to the 2009-2010 bell schedules?
And if the goal is something with a track record of actually improving student achievement in WCPSS then parents should be looking for how they can be supportive OR stop arguing that their "real" goal is to see student achievement improved across the district.
So...
Sat, 04/17/2010 - 08:38 — Bob_SconceI think I've already criticized the GHS->SERHS moves this late in
the game. But, some of the moves (e.g. Stough -> Lacy) have had so
much input that I see no reason to gather more.
Correct that we don't have bell schedules yet, but we should very soon, and the delay is due to the GA's budget cutting, and the district scrambling to find some savings. I was very pleased to see this approach from the transportation department. If PLTs are thrust back into the equation, then the bell schedule decision would be pushed off until at least May.
The previous plan was most
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 16:03 — danofncThe previous plan was most certainly thoroughly studied and reviewed.
Really?
Sat, 04/17/2010 - 00:30 — Bob_SconceIt may have been studied internally, and I suppose that if somebody were paying close attention to what each board committee was doing, it would have been possible to ferret that out.
The *first mention* of PLCs on this blog was March 11, 2009 ( http://blogs.newsobserver.com/wakeed/selling-the-schedule-changes ). It talks about needing to do a "hard sell" to parents. First of all, March 11th was at least six months too late to be instituting PLCs for a July start. Secondly, getting parental buy-in should have happened *before* adopting the plan, instead of afterwards.
As far as planning goes, if the district did such a fantastic job of planning, then why were school zone signs still being changed months AFTER the start of the school year? The change caught parents flat-footed as they tried to find alternative child-care arrangements.
Had the district planned this in advance, they would have given advance notice to the YMCA, for example, so the Y would have had its early-release plans in place on the day the district announced the change. Instead, the Y and other providers had to play catch-up. The Y rose to the challenge, but they shouldn't have had to.
As you can see by the
Sat, 04/17/2010 - 07:32 — danofncAs you can see by the article, finding the time for PLTs is quite a challenge. The old board decided that PLTs were worth any drama that the shift may have caused.
Parents talk about engaging students, closing the achievement gap, and all other types of student achievement problems that need to be addressed by the BoE. Then, when the BoE actually takes a serious, innovative step to set aside time so teachers can do things that actually address those issues they cry bloody murder.
That's inconsistent. I wish they all would just admit that they don't really care about anyone else's kids. You, Bob, only want to make sure that Wakefield schools look like the Wakefield neighborhood. Once those mini-city kids aren't bused in, you won't think twice about them again.
The fact that not ONE of the pro-majority activist groups has supported PLTs shows that they are really only interested in convenience, not district-wide achievement.
They want more magnet seats, but they will also support those who complain when they are reassigned so that there can be more seats made available. They claim they want improved achievement, but they complain when the district carves out some time to specifically address improving achievement, including saying that March 11 is too late to implement something for the following year.
But, if a certain few nodes are reassigned in April to a different HS on a different calendar....no problem. Change a calendar of a school and send some application students scrambing for new option (without even planning for what those options would be in advance)......no problem.
It's very obvious, isn't it?
Huh?
Sat, 04/17/2010 - 08:54 — Bob_SconceAnd, your evidence for this is....? My biggest complaint about Wakefield has been the thoroughly unnecessary year-round schedule. Please find somebody else to insult.
Well, good, because part of that 'drama' was the results of the last election. I think they just took it for granted that they could do whatever they wanted to families, and that parents would comply like sheep.
So you have never complained
Sat, 04/17/2010 - 14:29 — danofncSo you have never complained about the mini-city kids? That sounds like selective amnesia.
It's not about parents being "sheep". It's about parents who gripe about poor achievement not being willing to actually sacrifice a little to improve achievement.
Uh...
Sat, 04/17/2010 - 15:25 — Bob_SconceNo. I've said that they were better off at the school they were bused from, and they were. I certainly haven't complained about their being at Wakefield.
Example of wreckless behavior
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 18:15 — Solon77This is just an example of wreckless behavior by the new board members - making a decision before they had talked to any educators and properly grounded themselves on the topic. We don't expect them to be experts but as such they should have the intelligence to seek information before making a decision. They talk of running the school district like a business - in my company if someone put forward a proposal - new product, R&D, marketing..ect without the least bit of due diligence they would be looking for a new job. This is the group leading the school system - god help us.
Let me get this straight
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 14:11 — louiselee44"Snidemiller said keeping those extra 10 minutes for this fall while also serving 2,000 new riders and four new schools could take 50 additional buses, double the amount he said is needed to put schools back on their 2008-09 schedule."
So does this mean that PLTs would have been tossed out anyway because of the bus situation even if the school board hadn't voted to nix them?
It would seem to pretty much
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 14:18 — KeungHui (author)It would seem to pretty much kill the idea of dismissing an hour early and doing them at the end of the day. It still might be possible to do Tedesdo's idea of doing it at the start of the day because you're only slicing 30 minutes of time from each school while taking advantage of the fact that staff have to show up 30 minutes before class.
Even if Tedesco's idea doesn't work, the board resolution from December and board policy says there is supposed to be an hour of PLT time every week. They'd still have to find the time somehow unless they revised the policy and resolution.
So the board's not to blame
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 14:33 — louiselee44Thank you Keung!
It's just so typical that the board has been blasted by some about daring to do away with something like "Wacky Wednesdays" (which I personally could take or leave), yet this set-up couldn't have continued anyway.
Summarily dismissed
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 18:22 — Solon77The board is blasted for making a decision without any consideration to an alternative. I would not consider - go figure it out a viable option. They could have easily said - we are going to revisit the scheduling of PLT and put forward the best options. Instead they chose the bully in the school yard approach. And don't try to justify their behaviour as - the old board did the same. The newbies are suppose to be better.
I wasn't going to try and justify anything
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 21:07 — louiselee44"And don't try to justify their behaviour as - the old board did the same. The newbies are suppose to be better."
I didn't even know that the old board did the same thing. Why are the "newbies" supposed to be better?
Listen to all
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 23:27 — Solon77Many were POd because the old board declared mandatory year round, wacky wednesdays and generally were viewed as not seeking input from the community. The new board members promised to seek community input - little did we know that their idea of community was the group that voted them in. I believe everybody wants the best for the school system. We may disagree on what it is exactly - but the school yard bully tactics displayed so far will not win them broad based support.
So...
Sat, 04/17/2010 - 00:43 — Bob_SconceDoesn't that seem inconsistent to you?
Voters: "We're mad because the district instituted all these crazy policies without consulting us. So, we're electing you five."
Board Majority: "Ok. First step: Let's undo those crazy policies that got the voters mad."
Voters: "No. You misunderstood. We really like the things that they did. We just wanted to be asked about them first. You should certainly ask us again before getting rid of them."
Nobody complains about being cut out of the loop when policies they favor are instituted. And, they certainly don't organize and take to the polls to throw out people who support those policies, even if they weren't consulted along the way.
you got it
Sat, 04/17/2010 - 09:32 — louiselee44Well, if the board hadn't
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 15:32 — KeungHui (author)Well, if the board hadn't voted for the resolution in December, transportation might have asked for more drivers to still hold the PLTs.
That's a big "might have",
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 15:53 — louiselee44That's a big "might have", and even so, it appears that they wouldn't have been able to afford it.
If they move the HS up to
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 15:20 — DrActualFactualIf they move the HS up to 7:10 and teachers arrive at 6:40 does that mean if they keep the PLTs you'd expect them there at 5:40 a.m.?
No. If they move high school
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 15:29 — KeungHui (author)No. If they move high school up to 7:10, the PLTs would start at 6:40 a.m. and go to 7:40 a.m. On that day, the bell wouldn't ring until 7:40 a.m. but kids who arrived at 7:10 a.m. or earlier would be watched by the non-teaching staff. The question is whether this could be doable for elemwntary schools and middle schools while still staying above the 1,000 hour mark.
Oh, oops, duh (sorry my mind
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 15:58 — DrActualFactualOh, oops, duh (sorry my mind quit thinking). Thanks for the clarification. Not sure how comfortable I am with 2200 HS students hanging out before school with minimal supervision but I guess that day I'd deliver the kids on the late end of carpool and risk the tardy designation.
Dr - you are correct
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 19:12 — Solon77Your initial understanding is correct. What is Tedesco thinking the teachers do in the 30 minutes before the bell ? Sit around drinking coffee and eating bon bons ? This time is spent like most of us working folks - getting ready for the day. HS teachers use this time to meet with students and parents (parental convenience). This 30 minutes is not excess time that can be used. In the ES schools - kids can arrive up to 30 minutes before the bell and a someone has to be in the classroom. It is the teacher as the TA and other special teachers (Music, ESL...) assist in the oversight of car pool and bus drop offs. The best time is at the end of the day, where teachers often exceed the 1 hour PTL. Tedesco's idea leaves no flexibility. The reality is teachers routinely arrive well before the required start time and stay later than the published time. They put the effort to get the job done. The least we could do is provide them with a little flexibility.
Nope..no one cares about the
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 19:25 — danofncNope..no one cares about the teachers' time. We must do everything possible to make everything easy for parents. The same parents who scream "why didn't the old board do anything for student achievement?". It's really quite ironic.
Just read Sanderson presentation
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 20:04 — Solon77Just read the Sanderson presentation. Something must be wrong. I was looking for the slide on how the teachers and school administrators use this time to conspire to keep students out of Algebra I. And there is was, an EVASS slide using data driven information - my gosh this must be a fraud.
Dr. Decker and Sanderson teachers and students - way to go ! Keep up the good work !
Solon--Am I reading the bar
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 21:16 — DrActualFactualSolon--Am I reading the bar chart correctly in comparing the females to males performance. Although they were almost the same/flat 77/78 in the two initial years the females rose to 82 but the males to 91%. I assume the classes are mixed gender is that a normal grade growth spread variation?
Sorry
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 23:14 — Solon77Sorry, I cannot help. My two oldest go to a different HS. Their classes are mixed so I assume Sanderson is as well. I did not study the charts very closely - just to notice the trends were up, particularly Blacks. Given time and resources our teachers can do amazing things, although it is unlikely they could achieve the same results with a whole class of at risk students.
Its nice that Lanane is
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 11:20 — jenmanIts nice that Lanane is willing to compromise now on the Friday option. I wouldn't mind Fridays at all.
Thank you!
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 09:06 — Dove314Thanks Keung. Appreciate hearing about this.
The five examples presented were all positive. Were there any reports that the PLT's were not useful or was it pretty much agreed that PLT's were beneficial from a teaching standpoint?
Realistically, they weren't
Fri, 04/16/2010 - 10:01 — KeungHui (author)Realistically, they weren't going to hear from schools that were unhappy with the PLTs. But whether that's the only picture or just one side of it is debatable. Curriculum and Instruction invited schools to apply if they wanted to send teams to speak at the commitee meeting. They had so many volunteeers that they pick five schools which had a PLT track record dating back before this year. It's not as likely that a team that's upset would choose to speak.