The arrests and protests at the last Wake County school board meeting has led to a whole new wave of national media coverage.
On Thursday, CNN interviewed both school board member John Tedesco and the Rev. William Barber, president of the state NAACP. Both men were also interviewed for a story that ran Saturday on ABC News.
Barber accused the school board majority of trying to resegregate the school system by eliminating the diversity policy. But Tedesco argued that Wake is already diverse and integrated as he criticized the diversity policy..
In the CNN interview, Tedesco cited how the number of schools exceeding the 40 percent free-and-reduce-price lunch goal has gone up since the policy was implemented in 2000.
"I think it had good intentions - actually created more segregation in an integrated community like Raleigh," Tedesco told CNN.
Barber says those aren't the facts that people should be talking about.
"Wherever we try to use selected real estate zones rather than solid research to assign students, we end up we resegregation, from Los Angeles to New York to Pittsburgh, to Mississippi, to right here in North Carolina," Barber said. "And it creates pockets of poverty and misery, and we know that resegregated schools are the enemy of school excellence. Diversity is the friend to school excellence."
In the war of statistics, Barber cited the test score gains for minority students earlier last decade and the school district's as the crow flies school distance study. Tedesco responds back with the graduation rate for low-income students.
Many of those same themes are played out in the ABC News report.
For ABC, Tedesco touts Wake's diversity while also acknowledging the economic differences in the county.
"There may be parts of America where we need to encourage and really push higher levels of integration as best as possible. It's just not Wake County," Tedesco said."
"This is a huge county, 850 square miles. There are parts on the eastern side that are challenged economically, and there are parts on the western side that are affluent, but you just can't do it logistically, because of the size of the county, bus out the inequities," Tedesco said.
Click here for a video of the CNN report. Click here for an unedited transcript of the much longer segment.
Click here to find both the video and the much longer online ABC News article.
Comments
I don't mind them saying
Mon, 07/26/2010 - 16:20 — aquaman4life68I don't mind them saying that about WCPSS and the board as long as they include all the disruptions, the lies that Barber gives, AND some of the arrests were made by people ..Barber, and Petty...who knew that they would get arrested but decided to add fuel to the fire anyway.
Civil Rights Groups Call for New Federal Education Agenda
Mon, 07/26/2010 - 13:40 — AngelaWhttp://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/campaign-k-12/2010/07/civil_rights_groups_call_for_n.html?cmp=clp-edweek
All I can do is pray...
Mon, 07/26/2010 - 13:19 — SupportNeighbor......that by getting national coverage, it will finally come out about how poorly we're serving our ED children in this county. Labeling them as F&R and shuffling them around like cattle is unconstitutional, racist, and does nothing to improve their chances for graduation.
Also, I'd love for folks to finally see the big picture in where North Carolina and Wake County actually rank in this country, with respect to school scores and graduation rates. We are nationally recognized because we have a policy that sounds pretty and progressive on the outside. But once you start comparing us to the rest of the country, you see how poorly we're actually performing.
Not sure if anyone has posted it on this site yet, but check out the top 100 schools in the country this year, according to USNews. There were only 2 schools that made the list from NC (one of them was Raleigh Charter School), but there were 22 schools from that evil neighbor to the North - New York State.
One of these NYS schools was my high school. It was a wealthy suburban school, where 98% graduated from high school. Every day, they bused in a big yellow bus full of african american kids from the city, who had opted into what my school called the "urban-suburban exchange program". Guess what? Those african american kids actually graduated from my high school school too. Think it may have been because they WANTED to be there?
What do you think would happen to the ED kids/families in Wake County who raised their hands to go to a school in the suburbs? Think they might do well too? Would they potentially do better than a busload of ED kids who were labeled F&R and forced to go there? Hmmm... I wonder... maybe we should do a social experiment here in Wake County to see differences in performance between kids who actually WANTED to be bussed versus those who didn't?
Oops... I forgot. We already did that. We already found out it failed. Maybe it's time to go back to letting people choose to take advantage of the opportunities put before them - rather than forcing them into it...
They change the criteria for
Mon, 07/26/2010 - 14:26 — user12345They change the criteria for USNews all the time ... once they change it to the best education for the lowest investment per student Wake schools will raise to the top ... people in NC care less about education and more about taxes than people in NY.
What do you think would happen to the ED kids/families in Wake County who raised their hands to go to a school in the suburbs? Think they might do well too? Would they potentially do better than a busload of ED kids who were labeled F&R and forced to go there? Hmmm... I wonder... maybe we should do a social experiment here in Wake County to see differences in performance between kids who actually WANTED to be bussed versus those who didn't?
You can see the answer to your question at Green Hope HS where the scores of the ED population approaches NED level .... which is to be expected that when surrounded by bright affluent kids going to college, poor kids fall in with the peer group and rise to the challenge. The same process happens in reverse when kids are shipped off to a low performing high poverty school.
What is your thing with Green Hope?
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 00:45 — TrailerParkGirlIn terms of ED EOC pass rate, it only ranks 5th. Cary has the highest ED pass rate and has the 7th highest FRL percentage at 23.4% and the highest (by far) LEP % at 11.1%. So much for the it must be those LEP kids always bringing down the ED scores theory, unless someone wants to suggest that if it weren't for those LEP kids, Cary would have closed the gap completely. Maybe they're a "different kind" of LEP.
Oh wait, I have a theory. As we all know what CARY supposedly stands for maybe it's that the ED and LEP students are Relocated Yankee ED and LEP kids in the Containment (or is it confinement) Area, and therefore, they are a "different kind" of ED and LEP. Oh, or maybe it is because Cary is close to "white" Apex and somehow middle-class white perfect pixie dust floats from Apex to east Cary and makes those kids magically want to be "better" like the A Team kids, although according to one magnet school student who claims to be enriched by the "diversity" the B Team can never be the A Team.
What does LEP mean?
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 18:18 — kbrooks500Any student who has a non-English speaking parent is considered LEP. Not all LEP students receive ESL services. That service is based on their language proficiency. Cary and other western wake schools probably have many LEP students who are the children of professors and other professionals who may be from foreign counties.
LEP
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 00:01 — TrailerParkGirlLEP, rather than ESL, is the demographic group used for subgroup reporting of EOG testing results. Cary HS also has the highest percentage of ESL students. Have you ever been to East Cary/West Raleigh?
According to the Wake Ed Partnership "if everyone attended their closest school" analysis, Cary HS would be 23% FRL. In 2008-09 the district FRL at the HS level was only 21.6%. East Cary MS would be 44%, compared to district MS of 29%. Adams ES (closest ES to Cary HS) would be 62%, compared to district ES of 32%. That means East Cary has a higher percentage of low-income than the county as a whole.
Cary HS Hispanic% was 13.5%, compared to district of 11.5%. The race/ethnic group with the highest percentage of students within group that are FRL is Hispanic/Latino at 68% (A-A is 55%).
The 2009-12 original reassignment plan called for moving the following Cary spot nodes out of Cary HS. Apparently it related to "diversifying" less diverse schools in WW as the overall HS draw area in which they live is diverse such that disbursing them out in order to avoid high-poverty HS should not be the issue. Cary had 194 LEP students in 2008-09:
384.8 (where Cary post office is located) - 27 students, 78% LI (low-income) and 37% LEP (plan document does not provide ESL%)
369.3 (trailer park within walking distance of Cary HS) - 69 students, 70% LI and 64% LEP
Those "professors and other professionals" sure aren't getting paid much - maybe because they aren't "professors and other professionals"?
Basing your entire judgement of Cary on the stereotype for WW is like basing your entire judgement of Raleigh on the stereotype for N. Raleigh.
I still find it interesting that people don't seem to know where the diverse areas of the county and naturally diverse schools are located.
Are you certain about a
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 00:00 — red_balloonAre you certain about a student being considered LEP on the basis of a parent being a non-English speaking parent? Below is some information on LEP classification.
http://www.ncpublicschools.org/docs/accountability/policyoperations/LEPGuidelines_Sept05.pdf
Determining if a student is identified as limited English proficient for funding and
accountability purposes is based solely on scores from the State-identified English
language proficiency tests.
Where do your numbers come
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 11:13 — danofncWhere do your numbers come from?
According to WCPSS' demographics page, Cary was 9.8% LEP and 25.6% F&R. That was listed as being for 09-10..
According to that page, Cary's F&R % would be tied for 12th, I think.
On the nc report card page (08-09 numbers), Cary's 4-year cohort grad rate for LEP's is listed as 40.5. There is no ED number listed, but the overall rate was 78.5%. The "theory" that you quoted is used as a response to the 54.2% ED grad rate and the FACT that an LEP grad rate of 38.9% contributed mightily to that number. Cary's LEP grad rate does NOTHING to dispel that FACT.
The 2008-09 demographics
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 12:47 — TrailerParkGirlI try to match the demographics with the year of the school report card to keep it more apples to apples.
OK...that makes sense. But
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 12:57 — danofncOK...that makes sense. But there are more than 6 schools with a higher F&R percentage than Cary.
You are right
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 00:39 — TrailerParkGirlI missed the East Wake schools, but I would consider them as one school for the purpose of the analysis as the four put together equate to the size of one school, so I would say there are 7 with higher percentage.
In either case, if you read my response to kbrooks500, Cary HS is naturally diverse. I find it interesting that here's an opportunity for people to celebrate something positive in a truly diverse school in a naturally diverse part of the county and they overlook it for a Green Hope. Then, they want to come up with theories along the lines that it is not really diverse, those are just kids of professors. What is it? Can people just not stand the thought that there's actually diversity in Cary because it messes up their stereotyped presumptions?
When it comes to diversity of all kinds in one place, I'd put East Cary/West Raleigh up as an example. It's not 50% white and 50% black, but neither is our county. Our county is a mix of white (including European, Middle Eastern and North African), black, Hispanic, Asian, Mixed Race, rich, middle-class, low-income, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, other religions or none at all, immigrants, non-immigrants, professional, working class and East Cary/West Raleigh is a mix of all of the above.
My thing with GH is to
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 09:00 — user12345My thing with GH is to show people that the few low-income kids that are “forced” to attend the school after traveling an excruciating extra 30-minute on a bus score very high compared to their peers are Garner where they would have gone. My thing is to show that when poor kids are surrounding by kids going to college, top quality teachers, supportive parents that they tend to rise to the occasion. My thing is to show people that poor kids are not inherently stupid but given an opportunity can do very well which is why we want a collection of “good” schools and not just put them in affluent neighborhoods. My thing is to show that building schools of poverty can really hurt these kids. My thing is letting affluent people know that while you are looking out for poor kids and how much time they spend on a bus, you should let their parents make that choice between a great school and 30 more minute on a bus. Finally, my thing is to convince people that “goods” schools should not be restricted to affluent areas … there should be no reason a poor kid has to travel 30 minute on a bus to get to a good school.
So here are the schools you mentioned … if a poor or black student can stand a 30-minute bus ride to travel from Garner to GH, they have a 30% better chance of success. Cary seems to do well passing blacks and poor kids too like you said. I am guessing it might have to do with the % of teachers who have been there a long time (58% >10 years).
%Blk Pass
F&R Pop
%ED Pass
# of Teachers
AdvDegree
>10 yr
Green Hope
74%
6%
69%
122
38%
43%
Cary
67%
25%
75%
119
35%
58%
Garner
56%
39%
55%
153
30%
41%
Wake
53%
31%
58%
106
Well
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 01:25 — TrailerParkGirlNow we are getting to something that does matter - who is at the front of the class (and who sits behind the administrative and counseling desks) and their approach with students. Unfortunately, because there are multiple factors and the situation is complex, there is likely no one thing that fully explains anything. At Cary HS, is it the teachers, principal, community involvement, educational philosophy, counselors, parents, the fact that students live in a diverse community? All of the above? Which matter most? Like Apexster, IMO those factors outweigh the osmosis within the classroom theory.
BTW - in 2008-09, the students attending GH were not from Garner and there were only 107 FRL students, so sort of low sample size compared to 430 at Cary. Those at GH were from the area bounded by NC State, Lenoir St (Boylan area), Wilmington Street and the Beltline (so generally the area around the Farmers Market/Dorethea Dix). Some of those nodes remain and some were removed in the 2009-12 plan (to Broughton and Enloe, 17 students per plan) and replaced with a node next to those on either side of Wilmington (from Cary, 9 students per plan), a node from S Raleigh and a node from Method area (both from ADHS, 87 students per plan, 90% LI). Two nodes in Cary were also removed and sent to Cary HS (83 students, 18% LI). It will be interesting to see if there is any difference in results.
Then why are magnet results
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 13:39 — loriacThen why are magnet results so poor?
At Enloe, only 36% of ED kids are performing at grade level - they are surrounded by the 'best of the best' as we all have been told.
ED is a broad range ...
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 13:50 — user12345ED is a broad range ... looking at the WCPSS income map it appears that the Enloe's ED students are some of the poorest in the county which may explain the difference.
Poorest Poor ED vs Richest Poor ED?
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 00:30 — Duhhuh666Poorest Poor ED vs Richest Poor ED? Now you have created sub classes of poverty and show a direct link to income and learning ability. Poorest Middle Poor ED, Upper Middle Poor ED, Lower Middle Poor ED? So as the level of poverty increases the inability to learn increases? Is this true with wealth? The greater a parents net worth, the greater their children's ability to learn?
It looks like your current
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 16:46 — red_balloonIt looks like your current hypothesis is that non-magnets get richer EDs and magnets get poorer EDs and hence the differences in the achievement gap. I don't know about others but to me it appears like you make this up as you go along.
And what is your hypothesis?
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 18:38 — user12345And what is your hypothesis?
I don't believe in education
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 23:14 — red_balloonI don't believe in education by osmosis. Getting back to your hypothesis, how do you know that the achievement gap is maximized at Enloe due to poorer EDs getting assigned to Enloe? Secondly, given the mountains of research about social engineering, would it not be reasonable to expect that the poorer EDs should do as well as the richer EDs because the osmosis effect is greater i.e., the chasm (and the supposed inspiration to EDs) is greater between NEDs and EDs at Enloe than between NEDs and EDs at GH?
So - magnet schools are
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 14:39 — loriacSo - magnet schools are where poor kids are surrounded by motivated kids who want to go to college. If you're assertion is true, why don't ED kids at magnets perform better?
Again not all ED kids are equal
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 15:08 — user12345The only magnet school I am familiar with is Hunter because some friends attend it
ED pass NED Pass
Hunter 27% 91%
District 44% 78%
So, at Hunter ED do worse than the district and NED do much better. I think there is a huge housing project next to the school which again may mean the ED going Hunter are poorer, less prepared, and have less support than those ED kids attending say Davis or Leesville. If you are asserting that removing the NED kids will make the ED kids smarter, I think you are mistaken. I am guessing that a locating like Hunter would have been forgotten and neglected in other school systems. So, those house project kids are probably lucky to be in Raleigh and not some other city.
" ED pass
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 21:40 — Apexter" ED pass NED Pass
Hunter 27% 91%
District 44% 78%
So, at Hunter ED do worse than the district and NED do much better. I think there is a huge housing project next to the school which again may mean the ED going Hunter are poorer, less prepared, and have less support than those ED kids attending say Davis or Leesville. If you are asserting that removing the NED kids will make the ED kids smarter, I think you are mistaken. I am guessing that a locating like Hunter would have been forgotten and neglected in other school systems. "
It's interesting that we can look at the exact same data and come out with very different conclusions. I look at that and see that Hunter has only a 27% ED passing rate and my immediate thought is "Whatever it is they think they're doing for those kids, it's not working." You may have something in noting that simply classifying kids as ED/not ED may not be a terribly informative. Someone (you?) pointed out further down that this included a large number of homeless kids. I would certainly think that among the pool of at-risk kids, these would be among this highest at risk.
That being the case, though, let's look at what they're doing. I'll agree that there can be merit in surrounding kids who may not find academic motivation at home with academically motivated peers to provide a differing perspective, but as educational tools go, I would have to classify this as a pretty subtle one. When you have a very high needs group, I don't think that subtle is the way to go.
Looking at the magnet program in this particular school, I see another issue. This particular school has a magnet theme that is designed to attract in some of the most academically advanced kids in the county. Honestly, is this the best pairing to match up with kids who are academically at risk? And, no, I am not falling into the prejudice of presuming that low income kids are any less intelligent; I'm just looking at the reality that most of the AG magnet kids are children whose parents have been reading to them since infancy, and have sent them to preschools with some academic content. I would bet that most of the AG applicants enter kindergarten with knowledge of, or at least exposure to the alphabet; some of them are already reading. On the other hand, it's likely that many if not most of the at-risk kids will enter without having been taught the alphabet or numbers. Again, I'm not questioning the relative intelligence of the two groups, but certainly the kids who come to school with the academic background and support have a huge advantage over those who enter without this.
Are these the best two groups to pair up? I would think that if I were a teacher, it would be damned difficult to try to teach across that wide a divide. Additionally, I think back to my own childhood, when I was one of the least athletic kids in the class. When we all had to run a mile as a group, I found it to be a miserable experience, because I was always among the slowest in the group. Given a class of mixed abilities, I could at least take pride that as I improved, I might pass a slower student, or at least be closer to some of those who were ahead of me. What if, instead, the philosophy had been for them to group me in with the elite athletes to inspire me to match their performance? Instead of inspiring me, this would have broken my heart. I can say from experience that it is embarrassing to be lapped by better performers. If, instead of being lapped by maybe one or two kids I was lapped by almost the entire class, and I was too far back from anyone else to be able to gauge my improvement based on them, this would have absolutely broken me. It's likely that as a psychological survival measure, I would just convince myself that I didn't really care about running, and I wouldn't even try to improve. Is it the best thing for these kids to invite in other students who will lap them academically?
I would not try to prevent any low income kid from getting into an AG program if that's what their family chose or teachers recommended. But, honestly, if you're just an average kid to begin with, and you're being thrown into an academic cohort where a large proportion of your peers are proven high achievers who are given outside support that you are not given, how are you supposed to compete? How lucky are those average kids who, by luck of the draw get assigned to Enloe? While they could very well be in the top 50% of their class in a typical school, good luck with trying to get a decent class rank when you're tossed in with a large number of high achieving applicants.
Back to Hunter, though, I think that this is an illustration of the problem with WCPSS being focused on "Healthy Schools," since in many cases I believe this is being done at the expense of the kids who need help the most. If I remember correctly, the 40% F&R/socioeconomic diversity definition for healthy schools came about back when we defined school performance just by the state ABC standards, which pretty much looked at the overall passing rates for the schools. Looking at the performance of the ED kids at Hunter, I think this appears to be an argument that many of us had all along --- that "diversity" was just a more politically correct term for shuffling lower performing kids among the schools to dilute their scores with higher scores from better performing students. While NCLB has many shortcomings, I am delighted that it is there to point out that the total percent passing for the school is not the only goal ---- you also need to strive to meet the needs of all the kids in the school. While I think the school has some wonderful teachers and wonderful programs, it appears that these programs are working out more to the advantage of the AG applicants than it is the academically at risk.
I don't think that anyone asserts that removing the NED kids will make the ED kids any smarter. But I don't think that being assigned into a school with a program designed to meet the needs of academic high achievers is the best place to be for an at-risk kid with little to no academic support at home. I feel that their performance would be better suited by a program recognizing their weaknesses and filling in these holes.
I agree that it would be a bad thing to forget or neglect at-risk kids like these. I don't necessarily agree that they would be ignored or forgotten in other school districts. And, while WCPSS is certainly not ignoring their high risk status, I think it's clear that the actions that they're taking to serve them are not terribly effective. "Good is the enemy of best, and best is the enemy of better." I think that we CAN do better by these kids by giving them a program that is targeted to meeting their needs, not just by preventing their school from having a high poverty level. I feel that we're only telling ourselves we're looking after their needs, when what we have in place is not adequately meeting them. I picture this like being at the scene of an accident scene, and several people are injured. Someone in the crowd steps up to the worst injured party and says "I have medical training; I've got this covered." Hearing this, a qualified EMT turns away and steps over to the other victim with a broken arm. As it turns out, the guy with medical training only had training in standard first aid, but since he declared that he's looking after the situation, we end up spending the better resources on those who are less at need.
Well said … I
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 07:45 — user12345Well said … I starred your post to refer to later …
“This particular school has a magnet theme that is designed to attract in some of the most academically advanced kids in the county. Honestly, is this the best pairing to match up with kids who are academically at risk?”
Good point … maybe that is why the pairing works better at Green Hope. My wife reminded me that if you take a housing project school like Hunter and add some smart white kids you really have not changed the environment for the ED kids. Ditto for Enloe. On the other hand, if you send them to Green Hope the environment and norms are completely different. That maybe the real difference. But that gets back to the distributing kids around to successful schools to break the cycle of failure.
“While NCLB has many shortcomings, I am delighted that it is there to point out that the total percent passing for the school is not the only goal ---- you also need to strive to meet the needs of all the kids in the school.”
Totally agree … using total score the best strategy is to put all your eggs on the white students to push the school “average” up and eliminate through suspensions any one who would lower the score.
“While I think the school has some wonderful teachers and wonderful programs, it appears that these programs are working out more to the advantage of the AG applicants than it is the academically at risk.”
I agree …
“ I think that we CAN do better by these kids by giving them a program that is targeted to meeting their needs, not just by preventing their school from having a high poverty level.“
Personally, I could live with high poverty schools if they got the attention and resources to compensate. Unfortunately, the poor and minorities typically do not have much clout and can be ignored. Without affluent folks to be "angels" and organize and push important people schools like this may not get what they need.
Hunter
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 15:45 — HereWeGoHunter has 66 students classified as homeless. They get students from 2 shelters.
You can cherry-pick schools
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 15:48 — CaryCurmudgeonYou can cherry-pick schools all day, try looking at how the entire magnet program does across the county.
Based on 08/09 EOG's, here are percentages of students passing math and reading: (overall magnet / overall wcpss)-
Elementary
All (65% / 70%)
White (88% / 86%)
Black (44% / 45%)
Hispanic (41% / 47%)
ED (40% / 44%)
Middle
All (63% / 70%)
White (86% / 86%)
Black (42% / 45%)
Hispanic (42% / 47%)
ED (39% / 44%)
On the whole, the only kids who perform better in magnet schools are white kids.
from your post: 'My thing
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 15:22 — loriacfrom your post: 'My thing is to show that when poor kids are surrounding by kids going to college, top quality teachers, supportive parents that they tend to rise to the occasion.'
Magnets should do that in spades, yet the results aren't there.
Why don't we stop trying to force certain kids to go to certain schools based on an arbitrary label, and just worry about education. We sure have a ways to go.
I am not sure who is being
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 15:47 — user12345I am not sure who is being forced? The kids from the projects walk to school and the NED voluntarily come in from the suburbs.
forced
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 20:30 — loriacExcept for the ED kids who are bused across town - which was your original assertion. - put the ED kids w/ the rich kids who are motivated and good things will happen. So, why shouldn't great things for EDs happen at magnets - except they don't. The point, which you love to ignore - is that engineering all this at all gets you nowhere. And, while we're at it - magnets don't do anything either - except raise house prices next to the school (ITB, what a coincidence), and make the lottery winners very happy at the expense of a lot of other kids.
Personally, I never
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 21:34 — user12345Personally, I never understood your magnet envy ... they get an extra music class for driving 20 miles to a housing project school ... and you want that? You would think they had a direct path to Harvard from your posts.
So...
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 12:03 — Bob_SconceFirst of all, if it were just an extra music class, that wouldn't really be much of an issue. But, it's a lot more than that.
But, what's worse, other schools are deliberately being held back to avoid competing with the magnets. (I know, I was skeptical myself until Jeffrey1 posted Keung's article about a 2000 board meeting describing just that.) That's exactly the opposite of what the district should be doing.
As to the direct path to Harvard, IIRC, Enloe has more grads going to Ivy Leagues schools than the rest of WCPSS combined.
Bob, Enloe is a good school
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 13:14 — user12345Bob, Enloe is a good school but having known the neighborhood kids who go there since ES, I do not see them being that much more advanced or smarter than most any other public school on average .... The top math student, last year, I think came from Sanderson ... Since I have been here, people picked the magnet program for stability not academics. With little growth and a zone plan, everyone get the stability part now.
Really?
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 13:38 — Bob_SconceInteresting. I used to do alumni interviewing for my highly-ranked undergraduate university, and the only Wake County students who every interviewed were from Enloe. In the Newsweek ranking, Enloe was #128, Broughton (also a magnet) at #305 and nearly every other Wake County school was in the 1000's or not listed at all. (Nearly -- Green Hope was in the 400's.) That sort of thing affects college acceptances.
(Note: I didn't particularly care for Newsweek's methodology, but that's really beside the point.)
I think we had this
Wed, 07/28/2010 - 14:36 — user12345I think we had this discussion before on if you want to be one of the 1% that go to Harvard you need every asset working for you. I mentioned that when I went to Dartmouth, the other kids had been raised since birth to be there ... they attended the right kindergarten to get in the right ES for the right MS for the right prep school ... they went to the right camps and took the right vacations ... but that is a small percent of the student pool. So, if the folks here want to go to an Ivy League type school they probably need every magnet school and extra music class that is offered. Again, that is a very small % of students. I think you are determined to make sure your child is in that group. BTW, 5 kids in my daughter's public school go to Duke each year without any extra music classes
I think it is the envy about
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 23:19 — red_balloonI think it is the envy about the battlefield experience. Now if only GH offered a war zone experience like Enloe you can make successful incursions into Ivy League territory.
Interesting... and I agree
Mon, 07/26/2010 - 16:12 — SupportNeighbor...that when kids attend schools where the majority of kids are college bound, they will fall in line with the peer group.
I am thinking about our current school system, where in nearly every school there are large pockets of students who are not college bound and not graduation bound. As such, they can be in the best public school possible, they may even be in magnets. But if school is not a priority for that child/family, those kids are just going to gravitate towards the kids in school that are like them, and also don't care about school. And because of the system we've created, there are LOTS of students around them who they can fall into bad habits with. We've made it too easy for them to fail, because there are many around them who are failing too.
We can't save everyone. I'd bend over backwards to ensure that any ED kid who shows interest/promise gets the very, very, very best of the public resources out there - including giving up my child's seat for someone else. But I am NOT inclined to bend over backwards for those who couldn't care less about the opportunities put before them.
So why not target those that want to be saved and put them in schools where the majority are graduation bound? I realize this means, we'd help the minority of ED students and that the majority would be concentrated in high poverty schools where likely many/most of the kids are not graduation bound.
These are the kids we should be considering other options for - vocational schools perhaps, or alternative teaching methods, or alternative courses. Perhaps it's not all about throwing more and more money at those schools, but to use the money differently and in a way that will have meaning for those kids.
Holy Cow!! This post is
Mon, 07/26/2010 - 18:04 — danofncHoly Cow!! This post is like stereotype ping-pong!
"But if school is not a priority for that child/family, those kids are just going to gravitate towards the kids in school that are like them, and also don't care about school. And because of the system we've created, there are LOTS of students around them who they can fall into bad habits with. We've made it too easy for them to fail, because there are many around them who are failing too."
This is weird, because it complains about the system we've created, even though the system we've created is designed to get those kids around kids who aren't failing. The system we are heading toward will do what you say is a bad thing, but I think you support it.
"So why not target those that want to be saved and put them in schools where the majority are graduation bound?"
How early are we supposed to target those kids? Do we put them in high poverty elementary schools (where there are LOTS of students around them who they can fall into bad habits with), and then separate those who succeed for middle school?
"I realize this means, we'd help the minority of ED students and that the majority would be concentrated in high poverty schools where likely many/most of the kids are not graduation bound."
The ED grad rate in 08-09 was 54.2%. For last year, I think it was just released at 59-something percent. Your assumptions about the "majority" would be proven inaccurate by even the worst percentage, wouldn't it? I think the majority of ED kids do graduate. Not by much, and certainly not any percentage that is worth bragging about, but still a majority.
I hope you don't take my responses to your posts as attacks. The simple fact is that we are trying to discuss real possibilities, and they should be based on realistic assumptions. None of us accomplish anything by suggesting ideas based on faulty information, or by suggesting ideas without factoring in how much those ideas would potentially cost.
Sorry, let me clarify
Mon, 07/26/2010 - 21:56 — SupportNeighbor...I didn't mean to imply the majority of ED kids don't graduate - I realize that most of them do. What I'm suggesting is that we only bus ED kids out of their assigned area IF they show promise/interest in school. I don't believe in forced bussing for kids/families who don't want it and/or academically haven't earned it. Sooooooo... I am making the assumption that if we only bus those ED kids who "opt in" to a better school, that the majority of ED families will remain in their neighborhood school (by choice). That means that we will likely only be able to help a minority of ED kids, by placing them in a better school than their base school.
Hope I am making sense. It's been a long day.
So when do you decide to give up on a kid
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 18:42 — kbrooks500Is second grade too early? What if the child has had poor teachers and that caused them to lose interest in school? What if they were the victim of abuse or neglect which adversely affected their performance? What if they were evicted form their home after their parent lost a job and ended up in a shelter?
Some children can exceed despite what appear insurmountable odds. This is known as resiliency and is a key trait of children who overcome trauma, poverty and racism. But how do we determine how long a child should take to develop resiliency? What role do mentors and teachers play in helping students become resilient? I have seen many children with behavior issues. Some were good students, others were not living up to their potential. Most could not see a link between their behavior, their education and their future. It's an educators job to help students create that link. In your suggestion these children would simply be throw away, because they weren't showing promise.
how about opportunities for students who have earned it
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 06:32 — mbgjwaltersHow about making sure that all qualified students are given the opportunities they have earned?
"For at least the last four years, the Wake County Public School System (WCPSS) has been aware there is racial bias in advanced math placement for qualified students. Both EDSTAR Analytics and SAS Institute have documented that race influences placement in Wake County. This awareness resulted in new math placement guidelines that should eliminate bias. However, there seems to be no accountability to ensure the criteria are followed. A very short amount of time remains until students return to classes for the 2010-2011 school year. I would like assurance that WCPSS is complying with the 2010 placement guidelines to assure appropriate placement for all qualified students."
That paragraph is from a letter I sent to the BOE because the reality is TODAY we are still denying students opportunity they have earned. I have the whole letter posted on a blog:
http://barbarastakeonwake.blogspot.com
If the school system really intends to comply with the new guidelines that state that objective measures will be used to place students, then they should publish a report that shows they are finally moving toward fair placement.
Agreed. The candidates
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 07:36 — CaryCurmudgeonAgreed. The candidates made a lot of hay about the SAS report in the last election, it was mentioned in many speeches and collateral. If, almost a year later nothing has been done, then they got some 'splaining to do.
I think they did
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 09:43 — Bob_SconceIIRC, the problem with the old method of selection for 8th grade Algebra was based largely on teacher recommendation, and they switched the approach so that you could get in on objective measures (which ought to be race-neutral).
Math Placement
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 10:42 — lferreriThey did tell the Student Achievement Committee in March that a new system of placement was going to be used this year and that EVAAS would be employed in Phase 2 to place all qualified students in advanced math for 7th and 8th grade. (For some reason, 6th grade was not included.) However since then I understand that the changes they would have had to make to put this system into place have apparently not occurred. For example, if the WCPSS plans to use an objective method for middle school math placement, they will have almost twice as many students taking 8th grade Algebra in 2010-2011. They would have had to provide some teacher training (they said this at the committee meeting) and would need twice as many textbooks. As I understand it, this has not occurred, at least on a widespread basis. I also have not been able to find anywhere on their web site that parents can see the new criteria. (By the way, the blog referenced above has a copy of those criteria if any parents want to see them.) I am concerned that, despite the changes that they said were going to occur, we are about to enter a new school year once again denying opportunity to qualified students. I agree that we need a report on whether the new criteria are being used to avoid the disparities between racial groups and between schools that we have seen in the past.
Agreed, there needs to be
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 10:47 — CaryCurmudgeonAgreed, there needs to be some kind of compliance report. For every qualified student who is not promoted, we should know whether it was due to: Lack of textbooks, Lack of teaching resource, Parental input, etc. If we know what's holding them back then we know exactly how to fix it.
Agreed
Tue, 07/27/2010 - 22:01 — lferreriThe wording of the criteria says that the school must "record a compelling reason for why student should not be placed into higher course". I agree that it would be interesting to see what the schools define as a "compelling reason". If I remember correctly, the committee was told that there was an adequate number of qualified teachers (I'm not sure this is correct) so that was not supposed to be a reason for lack of placement.
How is that not forced busing?
Mon, 07/26/2010 - 22:10 — Dove314How is that not forced busing given a facade of "choice"? If you provide someone with a crap high poverty school and give them the "option" to come to the 'burbs to go to a better school with a more affluent parent base, how is that a real choice? How does that help them form a neighborhood and enjoy their community? Isn't that effectively just loading all the busing back on the ED kids under a pretense of "choice"? If the community schools model is truly all it is cracked up to be, you are forcing them to choose between their local community or opting out of their community to get bused to a more affluent school while children in an affluent school are less likely to have to consider that same choice.
So the ED students at Enloe
Mon, 07/26/2010 - 14:39 — red_balloonSo the ED students at Enloe are not surrounded by bright affluent students?
Have you been to Enloe?
Mon, 07/26/2010 - 15:19 — user12345Have you been to Enloe? Mugging are common place. See Income Level report.
See page 75
..http://www.wcpss.net/demographics/reports/book08a.pdf#page=40
Remember, Enloe is only 43% White ... most places in the South would consider it a "black school".
AYP report
The figures I found on the
Mon, 07/26/2010 - 16:09 — jenmanThe figures I found on the WCPSS website for Enloe have the white percentage at 39.9 and the black at 39.1. I wouldn't consider that a 'black' school. There's more than just black and white out there. I don't think that the old southern definition of a 'black' school is applicable in Wake County.
Jenman ... if you get around
Mon, 07/26/2010 - 16:22 — user12345Jenman ... if you get around the south you will find that a 50/50 black/white mix is not comfortable for most whites. Many would flee to private or charter schools or move to Apex.