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The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? Will the new student assignment plan be a hybrid of the last two models or primarily be a return to the use of busing for diversity? Who will replace Tony Tata as the new superintendent of the state's largest district? How will voters react to a likely request in 2013 to borrow potentially more than $1 billion to build and renovate schools?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

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School board abandons Forest Ridge and asks towns for money

Submitted by KeungHui on 02/16/2010 - 21:14

Forest Ridge High is now dead as a Wake County school site.

The school board voted 5-4 tonight to abandon Forest Ridge and direct staff to pursue two alternatives in Rolesville proposed by Rolesville Mayor Frank Eagles. The new majority wasn't deterred by warnings from staff it could cost an additional $15.4 million to switch sites.

But at the urging of board member Keith Sutton, the board passed a motion to ask Knightdale, Raleigh, Rolesville, Wake Forest and Wake County to pay a total of $7 million to help offset the additional costs. Students from those five areas will send students to the new high school.

Sutton's motion passed 5-3 when board vice chairwoman Debra Goldman split with the majority to back the minority.

1266374825 School board abandons Forest Ridge and asks towns for money The News and Observer Copyright 2011 The News and Observer . All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Comments

Forest Ridge

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 10:26 — prescott2

the original location for H6 made perfect sense given the extreme overcrowding at Wakefield. WF/R renovation to increase capacity to 2300 allows it to bring back it's ninth graders. Where are the 3077 students at Wakefield supposed to attend school ( a school btw with 31 trailers AND a 9th grade center). Rolesville's growth is coming, WHS's is already here. Locating the 2 schools so closely would have allowed shared resources- a benefit not a negative. That fact that Heritage was bonded as a small footrpint HS was a flaming mistake I will agree but locating the 2 schools w/in close proximity would have mitigated that lousy decision. But hey put those kids assigned from WHS to H6 in cars and send them over to Rolesville to commute 11+ miles from their homes in all kinds of weather, at all kind of hours. Hope Rolesville's EMT is ready. I've seen the action Falls Of Neuse EMT deals with everyday. Maybe WCSA is planning on a big donation to Rolesville EMT. OH and BTW- Heritage was built on similar ledge with similar costs for dynamiting- where were the bellyachers then? hmmmm

From what I remember of the

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 15:55 — jenman

From what I remember of the assignment map for H6, there weren't any kids coming from near Wakefield HS. They were being sent to Heritage. So your 11 mile example is wrong--we weren't going to H6 anyway.

EMT?

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 12:57 — ego7601

Have you ever been to the intersection of 401 & Forestville? I have seen far too many fatal crashes there over the past 15 years (and the area keeps growing). With more inexperienced drivers that are known to take riskier moves in cars, the Raleigh/WF EMS departments will be working harder than Rolesville for sure. Not to mention that the entrance to the H6 site is was to be in a neighborhood because there wasn't enough road frontage to support an entrance along Forestville. Imagine those teenage drivers peeling through the neighborhoods and accidentally striking and killing a younger kid. I know it is a worst-case scenario, but I would rather err on the side of caution. Plain and simple- the site was poorly chosen and I applaud the new school board for thinking rationally.

Some people are saying the

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 21:31 — newboard9

Some people are saying the roads are in bad shape now. And guess what, there are no plans to improve them. If the school goes there they will be required to improve the roads to take care of the school traffic and the current traffic. That sounds like it would improve the situation.

You ignore Heritage

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 10:49 — Eric_B

Your numbers completely ignore the opening of Heritage. When Heritage opens, it's slated to get an estimated 559 students from Wakefield.

http://ap2008.wcpss.net/assignment-proposal/schools/595.html?view=profile1

I don't think H6 and Heritage were planned to share any facilities. Do you care to elaborate?

A large number of students for H6 will come from Knightdale and WFR. A location in Rolesville will be fine for these students (the majority of the H6 students).

Forest Ridge

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 10:59 — prescott2

H6 was slated to take WHs along with Millbrook kids. About the same numbers.

There would have been no reason to not share resources in a tight economy. example. Heritage and H6 could have shared a Latin teacher -one of the most difficult positions to fill for a Hs principal and the reason not all hs's in WC offer Latin. A shared stadium would save big taxpayer dollars. School nurses, coaches, orchestra teachers etc all resources that could be better utilized if the promity were closer.

Heh...

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 11:13 — Bob_Sconce

The H6 site was budgeted to have its own stadium. I don't see having coaches shared between high schools -- which side of the field does he sit on when they play each other? In any case, we're not talking about a move of 20 miles -- it will still be an easy drive.

Moving H6 probably means that WHS nodes will be moved to HHS instead of to H6. Besides, it would be asinine for WHS students to drive past Heritage to get to H6 anyway.

" Besides, it would be

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 11:39 — KnightdaleParent

" Besides, it would be asinine for WHS students to drive past Heritage to get to H6 anyway. "

Not a problem for the old board as you do not pass Heritage "as the crow flies".

From another thread...

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 09:39 — Eric_B

The $15.5 million figure for picking a new location for Forest Ridge is complete B.S. and everyone knows it.

First of all, they estimated $10 million to purchase new trailers and locate them. There are plenty of free trailers including 6-8 at Hilburn that are unused, 3 at Jeffreys Grove, and 11 at Wakefield Elementary. There are probably many more throughout the county. The district estimates the cost to move trailers at $50,000 per trailer, so WCPSS could move 20 trailers for $1 million.

The other $4 million for construction inflation should not be included because some of the Forest Ridge funding is being used to continue construction at Walnut Creek Elementary that otherwise would be delayed. (BTW, it is funny that we never hear about the costs of construction inflation when we talk about MYR schools that delay the need for new schools. Shouldn't that be considered a "cost" of using MYR to delay the need for new schools)

I believe the total cost of delaying construction is more like $2.5 million. Given that the Forest Ridge site is projected to require $7+ million in road improvements while average sites require only $1.7 million, it seems like WCPSS can easily end up saving money by choosing a site that does not need the scale of road improvements that the Forest Ridge site requires. (This is not even including the cost overestimate at the Rolesville site where the existing sewer line was not included.)

The end result of saving money and having a $70+ million high school located in a better location is well worth the time spent reselecting a site. Good job board members for taking the time to understand the issues and not caving to pressure!

I hear that the Wendell

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 21:17 — newboard9

I hear that the Wendell modular campus cost $5M. So why isn't reasonable that two big modular campus would cost $10M?

We're not talking about

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 21:31 — Eric_B

We're not talking about building a modular campus. We're talking about a few trailers to hold students for an additional two years due to the delay in H6. Moving 20 unused trailers from existing campuses would cost $1 million and could house 450-500 students for 2 years.

yes you are talking about

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 21:47 — newboard9

yes you are talking about modular campus in order to take care of that many students. you will need administrative bldgs, restrooms, dining areas. they will require utilities, proper roads for fire trucks, etc. using 20 individual trailers requires more space for fire clearance, makes students spend more time outside between classes. the land space is not available at Knightdale HS. I hear the unused trailers will be needed in the next 2-4 years for 2,000 to 4,000 new students coming each year with only a couple of new schools left to be built in the bond. You ready to pay more taxes next year to pay for some more schools to be built in the next 2-4 years?

You have no idea what you

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 22:07 — Eric_B

You have no idea what you are talking about. You don't take into account the opening of Heritage HS.

WCPSS' own projections show Wakefield HS going from 3000+ students to only 1757 by 2012 with the opening of Heritage and H6. The H6 kids need to be accommodated in their base schools for an additional 2 years. You don't need a complete modular campus housing 2000 students for 2 years.

If the space isn't available at Knightdale HS, why is WCPSS staff saying the trailers will be placed there?

Administrators said most of the $15.5 million cost of abandoning Forest Ridge would come from acquiring classroom trailers to relieve overcrowding at Knightdale High School and nearby elementary schools until the new high school is built in 2014

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/education/story/330167.html

I am not talking about 2000

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 22:23 — newboard9

I am not talking about 2000 student campus. I am talking about the 500 you mentioned.

I was also saying that the other trailers will be needed for the other new students coming in all over the county.

I do not see anything saying

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 22:13 — my3cents

I do not see anything saying the trailers will be at Knightdale HS. It says the trailers will relieve crowding at the HS. The trailers do not have to be at Knightdale to relieve crowding.

3 Year rounds = 4

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 21:10 — newboard9

3 Year rounds = 4 Traditional schools

Therefore you save building a school, you do not delay the schools.

MYR conversions

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 21:29 — Eric_B

The 22 schools that converted to MYR were converted to delay the need to build additional schools. I don't recall anyone complaining about construction inflation when schools would actually have to be built at a later date when additional capacity is needed.

those schools were converted

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 21:49 — newboard9

those schools were converted because there wasn't public support to pay more taxes to build more schools.

BULL!

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 21:52 — g88ky07

And double BULL!

I see you have plenty of

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 22:07 — my3cents

I see you have plenty of facts g88ky07. Can you do better than that? Sounds like newboard9 is using reasonable facts to make a point.

I think the Newbies should

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 10:46 — user12345

I think the Newbies should hang their hat on this one ... if their decisions to move the HS end up costing taxpayers more, they should step down ...

User, you are getting more

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 11:06 — woodstock

User, you are getting more desperate every day with your increasingly weak arguments. Although I believe the cost at other sites will be less, I also know as well as you do that short-term contruction costs do not tell the entire story. A new school will be in use for many decades, placing it in an ill-coneived location creates costs over time that will dwarf initial costs.

The newbies said they made

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 11:14 — user12345

The newbies said they made the decision because it was a campaign promise and they had no choice to select the less expensive or better choice but were forced to find another location.

I am sure in your mind that

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 11:18 — woodstock

I am sure in your mind that was the way it went down. LOL

Don't hold your breath

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 10:50 — g88ky07

I'm sure as of today they are on to other more important issues, finally. How about we total up the amount of millions that has been wasted at under capacity year round schools, wasted busing, empty trailers, just to start, and see what we come up with there. Interested?

This is another example of

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 10:16 — loriac

This is another example of Mr. Burns' leadership - allowing staff to put out bogus estimates. He made the right decision - let's move on.

Excellent point. I think

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 10:20 — woodstock

Excellent point. I think Burns was more of an administrator and order follower than a leader.

What's missing in this whole

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 09:32 — SouthEastWakeMom

What's missing in this whole discussion is the unknown extra costs that would be incurred by building on the original site. Blasting rock and widening roads are not cheap. If we don't trust staff's numbers on the new sites, can we trust the estimates for the original site?

those costs have been

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 22:09 — my3cents

those costs have been identified and most of them have been repeated at the alternates too because the whole area has the same issues.

Did not catch that part of

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 08:29 — CaryCurmudgeon

Did not catch that part of the meeting. Was the decision to seek $7M in funding from the municipalities made a condition for dropping the H6 site? If they don't get the $7M does that put the original site back on the table?
Asking the towns for help is fine, but I don't want to see this turn into a Mexican standoff. Remember last year's ugly episode between Lori Millberg and Town of Cary over $1.6M in additional funding for site improvements at Panther Creek. WCPSS ended up paying the money, but the students paid the price.

It's striictly a request.

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 09:37 — KeungHui (author)

It's striictly a request.

I believe it is a request,

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 08:34 — red_balloon

I believe it is a request, not an ultimatum. I suppose WCPSS believes that taxpayers from these towns are hungry to contribute more.

Keung: 2nd word in title has typo

Tue, 02/16/2010 - 21:46 — red_balloon

Thanks.

Tue, 02/16/2010 - 22:47 — KeungHui (author)

Thanks.

Forest Ridge

Tue, 02/16/2010 - 21:45 — prescott2

aw 1234, it's only been 8 weeks. poor newbies haven't memorized all of Papa Ron's playbook rules yet. They get confuzzeled.

Forest Ridge

Tue, 02/16/2010 - 21:37 — prescott2

so taxpayer costs don't matter. In fact don't even bother to examine the costs. It's all about keeping campaign promises. wow. what a cool club. When ya'll found these leaders and made them 'sign in blood' ,did they have to promise to be BFF's foreever and ever and ever <3?

Do your homework. The

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 09:49 — woodstock

Do your homework.

The campaign promises were based on sound judgement. We do not need a H.S. in Raleigh a mile and a half down the same road from another H.S to serve students in
Rolesville. It never made any sense. Thankfully we now have a school board that is willing to take the heat to do the right thing. I am more thankful everday for the vote I cast back in Oct, 2009.

"Sutton's motion passed 5-3

Tue, 02/16/2010 - 21:27 — user12345

"Sutton's motion passed 5-3 when board vice chairwoman Debra Goldman split with the majority to back the minority"

What is it with these newbies? ... they won't even ask for money to offset the costs ... as people have said here, there really are no extra costs so no one is going to have to pay anything ... is this some kind of "Ron thing" to do the opposite of what the minority requests ... even if it makes sense.

Stunt

Wed, 02/17/2010 - 09:07 — Bob_Sconce

It's a political stunt. With today's economy, no municipality has extra cash to donate to another government body. THis is intended to allow the minority to make hay when the municipalities turn them down.