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The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? Will the new student assignment plan be a hybrid of the last two models or primarily be a return to the use of busing for diversity? Who will replace Tony Tata as the new superintendent of the state's largest district? How will voters react to a likely request in 2013 to borrow potentially more than $1 billion to build and renovate schools?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

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Recommending that Broughton stay an IB school

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It looks like Broughton High School has a chance to keep its International Baccalaureate program even though it's still losing its status as a magnet school.

The school board's student achievement committee agreed Tuesday to recommend allowing Broughton to remain an IB themed non-magnet school. The full board could vote Tuesday.

The big caveat here is that the recommendation doesn't include a guarantee of funding once the magnet money runs out in 2013. The program could die then unless $180,000 a year is scrounged up to keep it running at Broughton.

Here's the history lesson.

The old school board had voted in October 2008 to keep Broughton as an IB magnet school. But when the three-year reassignment plan came out calling for mass movement out of the school to free up magnet seats, parental lobbying resulted in the board's December 2008 vote to demangetize Broughton and move the IB program to Millbrook High.

The Broughton parents at the Inside the Beltline Raleigh school who wanted to keep the IB program have been reaching out to the new board members elected last fall.

School board member John Tedesco said leaving Broughton as a base IB school fits in with his idea of creating themed academies in the different community assignment zones. He noted how Wake has "spent millions so far on keeping a wonderful program" at Broughton.

A big impetus for the committee's recommendation for letting Broughton stay on, nominally in perpetuity, as an IB school is that no additional funding is called for through 2012-13.

As part of the magnet phase out, Broughton is still receiving money to operate the IB program through the 2012-13 school year. This was done because Millbrook High is still ramping up its IB program and won't be educating its first magnet students until this August.

Tedesco said hopefully the district's finances will be in better shape in 2013 to continue funding the IB program at Broughton.

Under the recommendation, Broughton would continue to offer the IB Diploma Programme in grades 11 and 12. For cost reasons, Broughton would have to abandon the IB Middle Years Programme in grade 9 and 10.

Broughton Principal Stephen Mares said having a formal board vote they can keep the IB program, even without a guarantee of money past 2012, is important. He said it means they'll be able to keep up their IB accreditation.

Mares said a board vote also means that rising freshman will know they can take the IB Diploma Programme in 2012 as juniors. Whether they'd be able to continue in 2013 as seniors would be up in the air.

The slimmed-down IB program would only be for base students. Broughton won't be accepting new magnet students unless they're younger siblings of current magnet students.

Tedesco said leaving Broughton as an IB school will help it compete with private schools and charter schools for base students.

It was stressed Tuesday that Broughton woudld not be directly competing against the IB magnet programs at Garner and Millbrook high schools. Arguably though, leaving Broughton as an IB school might discourage base kids from applying to other IB high schools.

UPDATE

REVISED TO REFLECT THAT IT'S NOW ESTIMATED IT WOULD COST $180,000 AND NOT $150,000 ON AN ANNUAL BASIS TO KEEP THE IB PROGRAM AT BROUGHTON STARTING IN 2013 

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IB Exam

While I was looking into the IB program for my daughters, I thought I remember the number of kids actually completing the IB program which required taking a comprehensive exam and submitting a paper was surprisingly low ... since the kids were already accepted and possibly attending college by the time the IB paperwork is done, it may seem pointless to some to complete the program after being accepted to college. That does not make the IB program worthless .... hopefully the kids are still learning something .... but I would like to see the results by school so we could better gauge the effectiveness of each school's programs ....

 

To earn the IB diploma, students complete and test in six IB subjects; write an extended essay of independent research guided by a faculty mentor, complete 150 hours of creative, action, and service activities (CAS); and participate in a critical thinking course called Theory of Knowledge

keung: a question

Is there a blog entry listing expenditure by cost center? If not, is that something WCPSS would release i.e., operating and capital expenditure by cost center (and perhaps drilled down to activity/ program/ purpose code)?

The closet thing I can

The closet thing I can recall is a blog post about how Bob Luebke had lumped spending by Central Services cost centers.

Are you aware of any reason/

Are you aware of any reason/ rule that would prevent WCPSS from releasing this information to the public if so requested by a member of the public?

There's nothing stopping you

There's nothing stopping you from asking for it.

..

How is it ok for Broughton to have this specialized program but Enloe is bashed all the time for its magnet status?

Enloe has this "specialized" IB program too

Enloe has IB Diplomma program as well  PLUS   its many additional magnet electives and programs

You are mixing up the school

You are mixing up the school with those who get schooled.

Enloe is not "bashed for its

Enloe is not "bashed for its magnet status." It is bashed for its alarming number of arrogant and disingenuous students and parents who "claim" to love Enloe for its "diversity," never acknowledging their privledged access to special courses and programs and the fact that a large percentage of the ED kids they love to make friends with and learn from are failing to graduate.

What's my take on it?  I

What's my take on it?  I don't like it and I don't like that its being used as a way to keep Broughton families out of private schools.   I like and support Tedesco, but that doens't mean that I have to agree with everything he does.

I do see TPG's point about Broughton fitting in with John's overall vision and that it would probably be better to keep the IB program in place rather than stop and start it again.

Although I see that point, I still do not believe Broughton should be able to keep its IB program.  Difficult decision with negatives involved but they shouldn't get to keep their program.

Broughton should have never received the program in the first place, but boosting Broughton's already good reputation and program isn't the biggest issue.  Boosting Broughton came at the expense of other high schools.  Other HS experienced brain drain and a loss of academic opportunity so that Broughton could have it.  It wasn't just about improving Broughton, it was about keeping other schools down.  For Broughton to now be able to keep those programs that came at others' expense just seems wrong.

Additionally, it is just ridiculous that the families at this school were able to 'choose' not to have the magnet program  so that none of them would have to leave to make room for magnet students.  And then now they get to keep their extra programs anyway? Its amazing to me how much everything in this school system revolves around keeping ITB families happy.  I wonder if any of the parents fighting to keep the program are any of the same ones who threw the program under the bus in the first place.

Broughton keeping its IB program may have a negative effect on Millbrook High.  There will be no incentive for any of those families to go to Millbrook if they can stay at their base school to get the IB program.  And what about the high schools that still lag behind everybody else in terms of academic opportunities?  Broughton gets to keep its extras at our expense while Knightdale and East Wake students still have fewer opportunities.

But...

I'm with you that Broughton shouldn't have received the program in the first place -- there were better places in the county to spend the money.  But, that's all water under the bridge.  

What if keeping it is free?  Or, what if Broughton parents manage to fund the IB program themselves?

(I distrust the $150K number -- those numbers can be increased or decreased depending on what you choose to allocate to them.  Do you allocate the teacher's entire training budget, or only any increase due to the IB program?  Do you allocate any of a teachers time when they would otherwise be teaching the same kids a non-IB subject?)

In case anybody thinks I'm a Johnny-come-lately on this, if you search through this blog's records, you'll see me saying exactly the same thing when the old board made the original decision.

I do see your points on

I do see your points on this, Bob.  And I remember that this has been your position all along.  

Letting the Broughton parents fund the IB themselves (or through their foundation) seems like it would be ok, but what about the other schools that would love to have special programs?  Are we going to give them the start up costs to fund special programs?  

I don't know.  Like I said, I do see your points but I just can't get behind letting them keep the program.  

 On a side note, how many students actually get the IB diploma?  How many of them are base students?

So...

I don't know about the IB Diploma -- I suspect that it's a fraction of the number of students in the program.  But, my impression is that this is a distractor -- it's more like saying "how many boys were in Boy Scouts without becoming Eagle Scouts" than it is "how many kids went to college and didn't graduate".

The problem here is the history with Broughton -- it has certainly gotten special treatment over time, and this appears to be a continuation of that.  I suspect that if we were talking about Athens Drive's IB program, nobody would think twice.

 I'm for anything that increases the availability of high-level academic programs in Wake County.  If Broughton gets to do this, that will make it much easier for other non-magnet schools to do similar things.  It's the camel's nose under the tent.

high-level academic programs

I'm for anything that increases the availability of high-level academic programs in Wake County.  If Broughton gets to do this, that will make it much easier for other non-magnet schools to do similar things.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Not sure about that.  Powerful elite advocates for low taxes as long as their children benefit from magnet grants and special programs. Where the money would come from? We are in a deep financial crisis for another four or five years.

I'm also skeptical.  I don't

I'm also skeptical.  I don't think that too many of the people with power and influence will be pushing for these programs to be placed at other schools.

People with power and

People with power and influence elected the new board majority.  It will be interesting to see if the new powere brokers recognize the desires of the ITB  parents.

Ordinary people elected the

Ordinary people elected the new board majority, not people with power and influence.  The ITB crowd is the one with power and influence.  They are very effective at behind the scenes lobbying.  I've said before that its much more like a small town ITB where people know everybody and know who to talk to in order to get what they need.  Most of the people in the 'suburbs' are newcomers who don't have that advantage.

 

The ITB crowd is the one

The ITB crowd is the one with power and influence

So you think the ITB crowd has "bought" Tedesco, Malone, Goldman and Prickett, and Margiotta?  

 The power brokers making the decision are  members of the BOE.   Was there a committe vote on this?

Yes there was a committee vote on this.

In order to get on the full board's agenda to be voted on, items must be passed unanimously by the appropriate committee.  To get on the committee's agenda, it must be brought to the committee (basically sponsored) by a member of the board.

 Tedesco brought this to the student achievement board agenda and it was passed unanimously by Prickett, Morrison, and Tedesco.

No, I don't think they

No, I don't think they 'bought' anybody.  I'm just saying that in general, its not the people in the suburban areas and smaller towns who have the power, it is the people in central Raleigh. 

Bob Dylan says...

The times, they are a-changin'

I agree that ITB Raleigh has historically held nearly all of the political power in the county.  But, that's slowly changing, as evidenced by last year's board elections.  Sure, the CCC set still has a lot of power, but they've been shaken.

What makes you think

that the CCC or whoever is in that "group" liked the previous school board?  It is a small group of people (number-wise) and elections are decided by VOTES.  Not to mention the fact that all of the new board members were elected from areas outside of the beltline.

Many districts within Raleigh are very liberal-leaning.  Who says that these CCC people are liberals?  Now I don't know which factions vote and which ones don't, but the lower income areas of ITB, i think, can definately outvote the higher income areas.  Just a thought...

So...

I know folks in the CCC set who liked the previous board and those who disliked it.  Wasn't making any statement in that regard.   My only point is that their political power has diminished as more and more people from someplace else have moved into the area.

Note that political power and voting power aren't the same thing -- Teddy Kennedy, when he was alive and not blind drunk, had a lot of political power, even though he only had one vote in the Senate.

Alright

Valid point.

It just interests me how people can generalize and say that OTBers are one thing and ITBers and the CCC set are another, when, honestly it's probably a wash in every group.

And obviously this Broughton decision isn't because of Broughton's "politically and monetarily well-to-do" base, but because it probably holds legitimate, financial merit.  From what I've seen from the new school board, I would trust that they wouldn't just use money, in this situation, just to placate a demographic.

This Broughton proposal saves one of North America's best IB programs and keeps the county from wasting all of the time, energy, and money that went into building it.  The program Broughton has now should, instead, be used to allow other Wake County schools to become IB instead of just Millbrook.

That being said, every school in Wake County can't possibly become accredited, but there's no reason that 6 schools couldn't become IB.  What Broughton is showing the school board is that it doesn't require the insane amount of money that the old school board recklessly threw at the program, but instead use the saved money wisely so that Broughton and other schools can have programs and the county can afford it by using responsible numbers.

Great point

And obviously this Broughton decision isn't because of Broughton's "politically and monetarily well-to-do" base, but because it probably holds legitimate, financial merit. 

Academic merit too.  And the new BOE is listening to parents and staff.

Who is behind Broughton's

Who is behind Broughton's push to keep its program?  How are they proposing to get this program to other schools without spending a lot of money? What money was thrown at Broughton for all these years that wasn't needed for the program?  From what I understand, its quite expensive to get the program up and running and then it costs a certain amount each year to keep the accredidation.

Why didn't they fight to keep Broughton's IB program in the first place?    Frankly, this sounds a lot like 'myr is horrible, it's awful, it's terrible, we're going to fight it.  Oh wait, WE don't have to go YR?  Nevermind'.  I am skeptical that anything will ever be done to help other schools.  Broughton will get to keep it's IB and everybody else will be forgotten.  Just like before.

Instead of whining and complaining to themselves about it,

A small group of parents who care about what happens to their school sat down and attempted to do something about it.  They went through the numbers, saw the earlier arguments for and against it, and made a plan.  After making this plan, they went to the school board with it and explained their reasoning.  It's not like it's rocket science or that they paid off the school board.  It is how you go through the process to make change happen.

And obviously, Broughton was not necessarily advocating for other schools in their initial plan.  Why would it?  Say Leesville, for example, wanted to get a 2,000 person baseball stadium.  In their proposal, why would they tell the school board that, instead of just them getting a new stadium, EVERYONE should have a 2,000 person stadium?  That makes no sense. But in talking with the school board staff and members and former members they found out how to MAYBE make it possible and that is how this proposal has shaped up the way it has.  Details of the decision and the plan will obviously be available Tuesday night or Wednesday after the school board votes to either accept it or deny it.

Broughton DID fight to keep it's IB program before.  Obviously it lost.  And yes, there is a lot that many don't understand about the IB program, the AP program, and how the county pays for and regulates both.  That's no reason to sit around and decide that "the man" is out to get you and nothing good ever happens to anybody in the school system who isn't related to a senator.  The school board is trying to right wrongs and make things better and if you have ideas, then you should do some research, make a formal plan, and present it to the board.  You might make a child's education better by doing it.

No, some Broughton parents

No, some Broughton parents fought to have the program removed because they didn't want to leave.  They won out.  They got to stay and the program was to be eliminated.  But now they all want to stay AND they want their program.  I think that gives a very bad impression to some people, including me.

Again, I don't see this as anything other than Broughton  parents wanting to keep their program whether or not it impacts anybody else negatively.  

How is the IB program going to work if the vast majority of Broughton students are not coming from an IB middle school?  How common is it for students to begin the IB program for just 11th & 12th grade?  Isn't that how the program works?  The middle years is 6-10 or something, right?  Then the final 2 years are for the diploma?  

Where does Daniels fit into all of this?  I suspect that the next step is for these Broughton parents to lobby for Daniels to stay IB as well.

A thought on IB Middle Years

Broughton parents didn't have a leg to stand on when the old board took away the IB program, so yes, they were fighting to stay at Broughton.  They have since gone back and examined the program to see if it was able to be saved.  They decided it had a chance so they went for it.

And as far as the Middle Years program, it's a huge crock to make IB International some money.  It has no impact on whether or not you can complete the Diploma program and there are no "requirements" to complete the Middle Years program in order to do the Diploma program.  It was the biggest waste of time and money.  Daniels does not factor in this at all.  Please show me ANYTHING that says Daniels is even mentioned in this proposal.  I promise, "the man" is not out to get you.

And as I said before, I don't understand why this gives a bad impression to people.  What gives the bad impression?  That some parents would like to try to better their school and see something change to better the education of the students there? Does it bother people that they are actually ACTING on it instead of complaining to everybody who can't actually facilitate that change?

I mentioned Daniels because

I mentioned Daniels because of the Middle Years program.  I don't know how common it is for a school to just offer IB for 11th & 12th grade.  Also, if one of the arguments is that without the IB, parents will leave for private school then when Daniels' program is removed they will really be unhappy.

Daniels runs on trimesters, right?  And the kids all have to take a foreign language?  Then they have other electives on top of that?  At 'regular' middle schools, the kids get one elective and some of them don't even have a foreign language offered at all.  I don't see Daniels parents being too happy with that (I wouldn't either).  

I'm happy to see people acting on something they believe in.  I just like to see people acting on something that can benefit academics for ALL kid and not just their own.  You were the one who said that Broughton parents see how this can be done at other schools and how the school system wasted money on this before.  I asked you before--how do Broughton parents propose that them keeping the program will benefit other schools?  I saw that statement in the paper today too---that it's good for Broughton and for Wake county for them to keep their program.  How?

 

true

Daniels parents are probably not going to be happy with losing the foreign language aspect of the IB program.  That being said, I don't think the county should be paying the unnecessary fees and costs of running IB elementary and middle schools.  I never went through the elementary program, but the only positive aspect of the middle years program was the foreign language exposure.  The rest of the program is a crock and huge waste of time.  The teachers are forced to teach to it when they see no need to and the students learn nothing from it. 

 So yes, Daniels will suffer but, at the end of the day Daniels wasn't that great of a school to begin with.  Many parents in the Daniels base decide to take their child from public elementary school, into a private school for middle school, and then back to Broughton because Daniels honestly doesn't provide much substance.  I could be off-base with this a little because of all of the money that has been poured into Daniels facilities since I was a student there (the buildings were in an absolutely unacceptable condition due to many decades of use and only one renovation, if that).  The middle years program at Broughton was also just as unnecessary and pointless as it was at Daniels.

 As far as Broughton keeping its IB program is concerned, it costs lots of money to train and certify IB staff and Broughton has many teachers that are not only certified, themselves, but are also certified to train others.  That would mean Wake County wouldn't have to pay anybody else to gain new IB programs.  They could just use the blue print Broughton used (seeing as it was so successful) and utilize the resources that are already there.  It would cost significantly less money to affect many other schools in the county.

BIG CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER

The middle years program died  at Daniels and at Broughton.  This portion of the program did reach ALL students ( 6-10th), as you alluded to above. 

 The diploma program is an academically rigorous course of study that students apply for and choose to participate  in trying to attain the IB diplomma (I think).

This is how IB has always worked at  Enloe. 

You have such a chip on your shoulder.   Reading your posts, it seems you are angry that parents outside of your neighborhood care about their kids schools and that you are the only parent in your neck of the woods that does.

 

No chip, shank

No chip.  I have no idea where you get that I think I'm the only person in my neck of the woods that cares about schools.  Lots of involved parents in my neighborhood's schools.

I do not fault anybody for caring about their schools.  However, I do not agree with some people getting more from the system than others based on where they live, how much money they make, who they know, etc etc.  

Broughton's success (and all magnet programs' success) relies on the non-magnet schools being denied special offerings.  Not only do other schools sacrifice by not being able to offer special programs, but they suffer from 'brain drain' when their top students go to the magnet schools.  For some schools this doesn' t really make a big difference (Wakefield or Green Hope, for instance) but other schools really suffer under this system.  For Broughton (or any other magnet) to get to keep their program without being open to other students is awful to me.  Everybody else sacrificed so that Broughton could get this excellent program and now they get to keep it even though it will most definitely hurt Millbrook.  And the rest of us are left with nothing from these sacrifices.

Do most of the kids who do IB at Enloe come from an IB middle school?  From what I understand there aren't very many students who do IB at Enloe.  I"m just trying to understand how common it is for high schools to just offer the diploma.  My cousins attend IB schools, but its the whole campus--elem, middle & high.  I've never known anybody to just go IB for 11th & 12th.  I don't have a lot of experience with it though, so maybe it is more common than I think?

Sure, the CCC set still has

Sure, the CCC set still has a lot of power, but they've been shaken.

Time for honesty

There is a mix of "everyday people" AND, as many have pointed out from all directions, "people with power and influence" on all sides of this debate.   

I think the influence of

I think the influence of power and money is a bit lopsided...and is leaning precariously to the left.

The Dynamic Duo of Goodmon and Quales who not only have money but also control most the media in the area are the most influential individuals in all of this, yet not even their power could sway support for the Fab 5. Goodmon even has political action organizations disguising themselves as non-profit advocacy groups working 'round the clock to work against the new BoE members. The names that keep cropping up in the political warfare that is on-going -- people like Fitzsimons, Schofield, Barber and organizations like N.C. Policy Watch and N.C. Justice Center -- are all part of Goodmon's media and political empire.

Smokescreen

Try that smokescreen somewhere else.   Those on either extreme will always see the balance as leaning towards the other side due to their being so far away from the center.   That argument gets trotted out to try to shift the middle more to one side or the other and it is past time to call it out for what it is.

LOL I will say this for you,

LOL I will say this for you, you are relentlessly biased with blinders firmly attached. No amount of reality will sway you.  The new BoE members and their bi-partisn supporters do not represent an extreme. They reflect  the mainstream folks who live, work and pay  taxes in this county.

you are relentlessly funny

I imagine you laughing and having a great time every time you post something... not caring whether the feedback is negative or positive... just enjoying the experience.

Hmm, okay. Imagination is a

Hmm, okay. Imagination is a powerful thing.

I don't understand your point about positive/negative feedback. I post what I know and believe...don't know any other way. I can't control how others respond.

In this case

I wasn't talking about the BoE.  I believe my quote was "There is a mix of "everyday people" AND, as many have pointed out from all directions, "people with power and influence" on all sides of this debate. "   
I'm not the one painting things as partisan here.    I leave that distinction to you.

It is no honor to point out

It is no honor to point out how partisan the forces are behind the barrage of fringe but vocal attacks against the school board...just look at the recent lawsuit today regarding seating capacity; that is pure partisan politics...and all you have to do is to look at the mistakenly sent email to see who is involved in that.

Conspiracy theories

It's a funny thing how conspiracy theories abound on all sides.  The debates get further and further from any focus on student achievement.  Sorry, but that gets my focus over "who sued who"; "who conspires against who"; "who plays partisan games"; "whether things are convenient for who"; or any of the other foolishness that gets posted around here.

Let's chat when Tedesco AND Sutton get themselves together and actually have a meeting of that ED Student Achievement Task Force.   I don't know about you, but while a lot of foolishness happens here, I'm off learning more about what has been tried in the past to close the achievement gap (in WCPSS as well as elsewhere); trying to find some people who've been involved in past efforts; and trying to figure out why each of the 9 members of the BoE don't have key aspects specific to student achievement to report on each and every BoE meeting -- not finance, not what school they visited or whose eggplant they saw; not whether a lacrosse player can do his stuff at school A or school B; not deckchairs, not magnet envy, not debating the same thing for the upteenth time -- but real, concrete objectives specific to student achievement and the achievement gap.  I'm pleased to see some way to hold PLT's for 2010-2011 even on the table, despite putting most of it on the backs of the teachers. I'm appreciative the teachers are considering the options.  That's my positive for today and this week and I'm happy there is even one thing positive under discussion towards student achievement.

So...

Deep Money Crisis, check.  4-5 years?  I hope not.  But, that's another blog.

 

I would like to see

I would like to see Broughton keep it's IB program ... it would be nice if each school had something special about it ... something that we could celebrate ....  I would prefer to see other schools added to the IB program as they are ready ... with Broughton serving as a mentor school for follows ... I hate the idea that we can only have a few of a good thing ... as if we have one IB chips that we pass around ... if we were some rural, dirt poor school system, I could understand the rationing but being one of the wealthiest counties in the nation and being so miserly seems wrong... we should be expanding education opportunities and growing successful programs …

Still, I'd like you to help

Still, I'd like you to help me understand what extra costs a magnet school has that couldn't be explained in the same "it depends on what you allocate to them" method?

If a magnet school doesn't get extra teacher-hours (I don't know if they do or not), how can they be so much more expensive?  I find it hard to believe (but I understand it's not impossible) that they hire a specialized FT teacher for each individual elective.

They don't.

They don't.  They share teachers with other schools for those courses that are not full.  For example, our Japanese teacher at SRHS also teaches at Ligon and (I think) one other school.

Some teachers teach a variety of different courses.

See my post below with the link to budget formulas.  I do not see anything special for magnet schools.  There are some extra items for IB

 

Enloe doesn't get bashed

Enloe doesn't get bashed because of its magnet status.  Enloe gets bashed based on its failure to improve achievement of their minority and ED students, while the Enloe Army is staging protests to protect their wealth of course offerings.  That help?

Enloe gets bashed based on

Enloe gets bashed based on its failure to improve achievement of their minority and ED students,

Sounds like Enlow needs to dump all the minorities like Raleigh Charter and Schools in Cary to avoid having that problem.

That is completely false and

That is completely false and baseless.

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.
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