The school system received 1,449 online comments in the past month since it released its student reassignment plan.
School officials took online comments on the plan from Dec. 20 through Thursday. The online comment period has now closed.
School officials say the reassignment plan received 193,120 page views and 14,788 downloaded documents during the comment period.
The school board also heard from more than 200 people at five public hearings over the past two weeks. More than 1,000 people attended the hearings.
Comments
Can I ask you a question?
Tue, 01/20/2009 - 16:20 — jenmanCan I ask you a question? Do you care about these poor kids? Really? Do you even know any personally?
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Do you know any personally who are bused far from home? I do know some who were bused out of a HEALTHY magnet school 3 miles away to a YR school 13 miles away. None of them wanted to go. They all wondered why they had to be bused so far away and many were worried about child care because their older kids watched the younger ones. With the younger ones on YR and the older ones on trad, they didn't have that free after school care or summer care anymore. Most opted out for trad, but if WCPSS has its way they won't have that option.
So yes, I do care about the poor kids. My children have never been reassigned. My kids have always been at a Title 1 school and that has never bothered me.
Honestly, how can moving low income kids from Underwood Elem, a magnet with an F&R of 29% last year, to Green Hope Elem which is 18 miles from home be a positive thing for those kids? Many of their parents don't have cars so they can't get to the school for conferences, in an emergency, or to pick up their kids if they miss the bus. Cab rides are around $30-35 ONE WAY and bus rides would require transfers, miles of walking to and from the bus stop and hours of riding time. How is that helping any of those kids?
And I know some...
Tue, 01/20/2009 - 17:45 — supportwcpssThat were bussed and told me they thank god every day because there kids are in a better situation.
Then you also know parents
Tue, 01/20/2009 - 18:50 — CaryCurmudgeonThen you also know parents of F&R kids who got bussed and were angry about it. Deny that, and you will lose whatever credibility you have.
Look at the study just released by the Hoover Institution of Stanford University. In a sample which was very slanted toward Democrat/liberal voters, only 17% of black and hispanic respondents expressed a positive view of busing for socio-economic diversity. 17% of public school teachers expressed the same view.
You can always find someone who will support any point of view. Knowing some people that feel a certain way is not very meaningful.
Let's just follow the law
Tue, 01/20/2009 - 18:21 — Voice_of_Reason_If a school is high F&R and is failing, let the parents opt to be bussed out. It is their right under the law. If the school keeps failing, they even get an option of free tutoring if they chose to stay. These are clearly spelled out in the NCLB Act.
Of course now WCPSS is saying they will not do this because it is just too hard. And what schools do they go to? the parents are supposed get a choice.
“a magnet with an F&R of
Wed, 01/21/2009 - 14:21 — user1234“a magnet with an F&R of 29% last year, to Green Hope Elem which is 18 miles from home be a positive thing for those kids?” I don’t know and I am not sure how you get detailed move data for one single node. There are enough low income people to go around in Wake. Most don’t even live inside the beltline. In fact, there are more poor folks in Morrisville who would be closer according to the F&R map. .
http://www.wcpss.net/demographics/special-need/images/f&r06.jpg
Underwood
http://wwwc.wcpss.net/maps/WCPSS_RAP_2011_PROPOSED_20081215_SCHOOLMAP_572_BAS.pdf
Green Hope
http://wwwc.wcpss.net/maps/WCPSS_RAP_2011_PROPOSED_20081215_SCHOOLMAP_439_BAS.pdf
“Many of their parents don't have cars so they can't get to the school for conferences, in an emergency, or to pick up their kids if they miss the bus.”
Than may be one free cab ride a semester should be given to parents to solve that problem.
Charter Schools
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 23:20 — user1234In case you missed this .... "We've got a reputation as being the place you send your troubled kids," McQueen said. But Torchlight kids do not perform as well on standardized tests as students in some other schools -- most pointedly, students in some of the mostly white charter schools renewed without hesitation by the board. At Torchlight, only 37 percent of the students passed state-mandated tests. And, remember, charters get $1,200 less in tax dollars for each student than do public schools. There is a distinct racial divide among the charters. Last year, 42 of North Carolina's 98 charter schools had a white enrollment of 80 percent or higher; 28 had a white enrollment of less than 20 percent. Chairman Howard Lee bristled last week at any suggestion that the board is guided by race in its decisions about which schools get their charters renewed. There is not a regular school in Wake that caters to such an academically challenged student population. But when public schools fail kids, especially minority and poor kids, no one shuts them down. http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1373067.html
Since the measurement are
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 12:23 — user1234Since the measurement are based on health schools not individual, it seems a better study would be compare schools that are 100% high needs, 80%, 60%, 40%, 20% and 0% for school health (e.g. violence, test schools, YTY progress, teacher retention).
Second, there was an article about Black charter schools where they started (doing from memory) with the toughest students and I think they moved them from 10% passing to 20% passing which was below the 60% passing target and they were being decertified. A 100% improvement! Were are all the people who supposedly care about individual F&Rs students and wanting diversity studies all the time?
And how does busing help
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 13:49 — Voice_of_Reason_First off the health of the school is a report card for the school, not how the school system does in total. It is relatively easy to make a school "healtier" without achieving anything in the big picture of educating students. Why do you think teachers support BoE's policies? It makes them more likely to get bonuses for one (another flawed program BTW).
Your example of Black Charter Schools may highlight that some children may not achieve no matter how much you try to help them or it may mean they were badly run....either way how does diversity busing change this? And yes they should be decertified!
Teacher Support?
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 13:57 — Teacher2000On what basis are you saying that "teachers support BoE's policies"?
As for my "bonus," after taxes, it's not very much, and it, certainly, has nothing to do why I or the majority of the other teachers teach.
Simple!
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 16:04 — g88ky07Name more than 3 of you who stood up against the BOE when they shafted MANY, MANY of you to mandatory year round???
The public, the parents, us, heard from NONE of you!
You guys went right along with the flow instead of fighting. Had there been some noise from "within" things might have been different from the onset!
But then, a job is always more important than a cause isn't it!
Do you think teachers are independently weathly?
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 15:05 — NCParentg88, I know almost no one who will put a cause before their job (their source of income, hello). Asking teachers, who are poorly paid and overworked to begin with, to do such a thing is insanity. You ought to be on your knees every night thanking whatever God you believe in that someone is willing to be with your kids all day instead of b1tching that they're not supportive of your cause.
You ought to be on your
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 17:48 — gwaihirYou ought to be on your knees every night thanking whatever God you believe in that someone is willing to be with your kids all day
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Well, only those among us who regard our own children as a chore, of course. Personally, I think my kid's teachers are lucky to be with my kids.
Amen!
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 21:58 — g88ky07For a ton of parents it's ALL about free daycare. Not here!
I'm more than willing to be with my child ALL day every day. I took 6 weeks off from my gig to spend every day together while we are on our marathon track out. Especially since we will only get a big 3 week summer!
Who needs income!
Of Course Not!
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 16:33 — g88ky07But, they can't _itch about it later if THEY aren't willing to fight for change themselves!!
Since when is it insanity to ask the EMPLOYEES to stand up and fight! Maybe it's time they get a new job if they can't! It's not just up to the parents who get screwed over with the BS policies. Everyone of them I've talked to have quietly said they don't like MYR, but they've been forced to deal with it because they have no other choice.
Guess what! They DO have a choice! They can opt out too and go elsewhere or do something else. Patti Head says they are "a dime a dozen" and can be replaced in the BOE's sleep.
I just don't want to hear the "employees" whining if they aren't willing to do SOMETHING besides "deal with it."
Don't know where you work, but
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 18:47 — NCParentVery, very few people have the luxury of doing anything other than "dealing with it" at work, especially in this economy. You're suggesting that they should get a new job? Where?
Also, there are PLENTY of teachers who like yr, so I'm not sure why they should be fighting against it.
And why exactly is that?
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 22:43 — g88ky07And why exactly is that? Anyone can do anything they want IF they want it bad enough. If the bulk of teachers like MYR then great, Patti Head won't have to worry about replacing them.
a teacher at our ES school
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 18:52 — AngelaWa teacher at our ES school spoke up on behalf of herself and other teachers with our principal's blessing, talking about how MYR us bit working then made a joking remark about hoping not to receive a pink slip, and got blasted at the end by our District Rep in terms of "I cannot believe you would ever say such a thing" despite the fact that it was in jest (though most of us realize how vindictive many of the upper echelon in WCPSS and the BoE can be)...that teacher was brave and APPLAUDED loudly for taking a stand....to no avail of course since our district rep is the one who then threw the middle school under the bus as well.
our ES staff, nor the middle school staff was EVER consulted on MYR, it was DONE to them, the same way it was done to families....hence WakeCARES.
Try this
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 20:45 — Voice_of_Reason_Speak up as a parent in a school improvement meeting with an idea that the WCPSS didn't bless....See what happens and how quick one is blown off even if a teacher agrees with you. Funny how that teacher wasn't there the next year...hummmm.
I am a teacher who has
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 21:08 — Teacher2000I am a teacher who has spoken up on two huge issues in Wake Co - illegal class sizes and school reassignment. I still have my job.
I can say it is not easy to speak up. Before I did, I made sure I had all my facts correct. I checked them many times. I did the research on my own time while still fulfilling my parental and teaching responsibilities. The research took me several hours.
Speaking in front of more than a hundred people is not easy. I sweated that there would be repercussions, but, so far, there have been none.
How many of the people who blog here have done anything other than rant and rave to their neighbors and to the other bloggers?
I have been involved behind
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 08:41 — AngelaWI have been involved behind the scenes for quite some time and spoken publically as well against MYR, was even so blessed as to have a "back and forth" publically with Chuckie at our Leesville meeting. There is so much more to speaking in public than just what you indicate, just as YOU sweat repercussions, don't you think *I* as I parent sweated repercussions for MY children????!!!
I have ALL my facts (my research happens to have taken WEEKS), I met with my District REP (who then the NEXT day threw the middle school under the MYR bus w/out telling the MS Principal a WORD until after it passed), I work endlessly at the school, and have felt the "dislike" that rolls off the few pro-MYR people in WAVES....DO YOU THINK THIS MAKES IT EASY FOR ME OR MY KIDS?????
do not presume anything about those who are here...this makes no better impression than 1234/ncDAD1!!!
You can't be honest
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 10:07 — supportwcpssIf you really sit around worrying about repurcussions for your kids then you have a level of paranoia that I recommend address.
Would this be from other kids or the school administration? You honestly think some GM admin is going to jot down your name and put you on their top secret black list. Gimme a break.
Agree
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 10:31 — Teacher2000I'd have to agree in that there are few repercussions that can come toward your children, especially if the parent is already vocal and unafraid and willing to speak up when things go wrong. The children who get a bum deal usually belong to parents who can't or won't speak out that something is wrong.
As I said in different
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 09:39 — Teacher2000As I said in different post, I was not presuming about anyone in particular; I was just asking. I read the arguments over and over. I rarely read what people can DO to make a difference, the actual steps. Those who are doing them know, but what about the people who aren't as savy? How is this blog helping them fight? How do people find out what they can do to actually make a difference?
Your irritation is how I feel when other bloggers assume that teachers are in agreement with the policy or give teachers grief because they don't speak up.
quite recently there has
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 10:45 — AngelaWquite recently there has been invitations issued to those who are SERIOUS about getting involved, not just moaning and groaning on the blogs, on that we can agree....endlessly blogging about the same things over and over is tedious and about as helpful as banging your head on a brick...get involved publically OR behind the scenes, but find a way to get involved..
too many assumptions on ALL parts is no good...if all the like-minded invividuals, parents, teachers, admins alike, REALLY got organized, I'm sure real progress would be made....that's our goal anyway.
Raises hand
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 07:05 — Dadof3I know quite a few here have gone well beyond "just kvetching" about the issue. I say rattle the cage every way possible AND vote.
I have
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 21:26 — Voice_of_Reason_Lots of writing. I spoke before both the CC's and more than once to the BoE. I'm active politically in local organizations and I have been on TV more than once. I don't have to worry about losing a job though. And yes speaking before a group isn't easy, thank you.
BTW Teacher 2000- Doesn't the principal sign you performance report?, Does it have oversight and an ability to challenge?
Ref the bloggers - A lot are active politically and this blog is read by alot of people that don't post, including politicians.
My comment wasn't directed
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 22:01 — Teacher2000My comment wasn't directed toward you, more of a general question. The same arguments and comments keep going round and round. So, I wanted to know if many of the people who blog are actually doing something to make changes or just talking. I know there are those who blog and do try. I've heard that politicians do read, but not post.
As for our performance report, what goes in there has to based on a series of evaluations, in other words data-based! We are evaluated on several different categories. Yes, we do have the option to attach comments to our report. If the powers-that-be want you gone, my assumption would be that they would find another way than the end-of-year evaluation report because it takes more than one for those to actually matter (at least that is my understanding.)
I don't fault the teachers
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 16:19 — CaryCurmudgeonI don't fault the teachers for not speaking up. The BOE is stacked with vindictive despots, and I have no doubt that any teacher speaking up would quickly find themselves sent to Siberia, or just plain fired.
Don't blame the silent teachers, blame the uninformed and lazy voters. We can fix this in October, and I hope to God that every disgruntled parent goes to the polls.
OMG!
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 22:02 — SDR256Do you understand what you are all saying?? You are saying that teacher - the most informed and connected player in this whole scenario is at the most risk for telling the truth? What does this sound like to you? Democracy?
Democracy and politics collide
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 07:10 — Dadof3I've had several conversations with different WCPSS teachers -- and they say "keep your head low." We're blessed with a few renegades but I can see why a teacher would see wanting to stay employed (they also do not desire reassignment) as a motivator. We've seen how the WCPSS reacts to unpleasant surprises in the teacher's pool on other fronts.As Teacher2000 said, it's a lot to hoe when you do so.
Employees (teachers) should
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 09:37 — user1234Employees (teachers) should never be expected to care the load for policy changes. Customers (voters, parents) should be the prime mover through voting, meeting and lobbying.
"expected to care the load"
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 14:31 — Dadof3I have NO idea what “expected to care the load” means.
Is that like "Care Bears?"
News Flash
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 14:25 — g88ky07If the "employees" can't speak up, don't speak up, won't speak up, they shouldn't whine when their dental coverage is yanked!
An uprising/change doesn't always happen strictly from the outside!
“We can fix this in
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 18:55 — user1234“We can fix this in October, and I hope to God that every disgruntled parent goes to the polls.”
I have lived here 30 years, why would any new faces make a difference. They will still have problems with funding, bonds, building new schools, renovating old ones, ensuring healthy schools, meeting state and federal mandates, taking care of high maintenance kids, buying more property for future schools, hiring a zillion teachers. We struggled with these same problems since the day I moved here.
The thought that there are people sitting on the bench for the last 30 years who have the magic answer to these difficult problems and have been waiting to hatch on to the scene to save us seems silly. Ultimately, there are 30% of the voters with kids and 10% of them are hopping made over some problem or another. The other 70% just want to hear their taxes will decrease.
You keep thinking that, and
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 19:02 — CaryCurmudgeonYou keep thinking that, and go vote for one of your beloved bus-crazy candidates in October.
Voice, not everyone is
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 14:28 — user1234Voice, not everyone is driven by money and self interest and ascribing that teachers are capitalist manipulating things to maximize their income is unfair.
I didn't and I clarified
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 14:34 — Voice_of_Reason_Teaching, is a vocation like the clergy, military, police, and firefighters; not a means to great wealth.
Sorry, I should qualify
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 14:13 — Voice_of_Reason_There are some teachers and administrators who seem the be the ones WCPSS's propaganda machine rolls out to lend their policy credibility, when that doesn't work they get the "civil rights mafia " to help discount the opposition as racists. I do know there is a SILENT large percentage of teachers that are not supportive of the policy at all, they don't speak out publically due to job security. I really would like to know where the ones that support it are from, my guess Title I schools.
And I know, money does not motivate good teachers to teach, it does help to feel appreciated. Teaching is a vocation, not just a career.
Voice, it you teach or have
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 14:23 — user1234Voice, it you teach or have kids in a “golden” school with low diversity and high income you want to maintain the status quo and if you are in a Title I school struggling with what society has dumped on you, you want equity and fairness. This is not racist; it is cornering the resources for yourself and letting some other poor smuck care the load for you. That is just basic human nature inherent in our selfish nature.
Did you attend some sort of seminar?
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 14:44 — FalcDid you, the BoE-R, Mr. Dulaney and some WCPSS supporters attend a seminar where they teach people how to make assumptions about others based on knowing only one thing about them?
I am puzzled by all the assumptions made based on one piece of information: Whether or not a student lives in a high F&R node (high F&R = higher needs, non F&R = not higher needs), whether or not a teacher teaches in a low F&R (or to use your term "golden") school (teachers motives are based on the type of school in which they teach), whether or not one believes the "diversity" bussing policy is the best option to improve education here (if you don't support it, you just don't want your kids to go to school with those kids).
Maybe it is just coincidence that in my diverse experience things have often run counter to assumptions, but I certainly do not think that all the assumption making is leading to progress. I have also attended a number of diversity seminars and they all taught the same thing, you should not make assumptions about others based on only one thing about them. Yet, WCPSS has a "diversity" policy based on and resulting in just that. Hmmm.
What vile BS
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 15:41 — Dadof3Speak for yourself and your other-worldly understanding of "human nature."
for those who may not get a hard copy....
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 09:35 — AngelaWcheck out these letters:
http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/letters/story/1371941.html
In re Brassfield vs Smith
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 13:20 — shank56In re Eric's numbers, for 2006-2007 5th grade EOGs:
Brassfield: 12 students identified as ED.
9 of the 12 scored at or above grade level. (75%)
Smith: 57 students identified as ED
49 of the 57 scored at or above grade level (86%)
The results look to be
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 14:16 — user1234The results look to be similar so we are indifferent between the choices. We need to than move on to other area like teacher retention and satisfaction. Are teachers beating down the door to work at Smith? Also, Smith is traditional and Brassfield is YR. Maybe YR is he answer.
From the Brassfield website
“Year-round schools provide a more continuous learning process. Since students do not have long summer vacations, major reviewing in the fall is eliminated. Students and teachers are more energized throughout the year due to regular breaks. The three-week breaks provide frequent enrichment and remedial opportunities for students during the year.”
One can find research that
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 18:32 — Teacher2000One can find research that either supports or does not support year round schooling, both in terms of academics and in terms of cost-effectiveness.
For example: http://www.edweek.org/rc/issues/year-round-schooling/
Also, what "enrichment & remedial opportunities"? Unless one means track-out camps for which parents have to pay?
We did decide to have children
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 20:44 — duvalOne thing that I would like to add is that we did decide to have children, and if we want them to have enrichment opportunities then it is up to us to provide for them.
If the desired options are summer camps that are both in town and sleep away, then the traditional calander is the best option for you. If you have a child who is involved in athletics, then yu might consider a year round calendar with camps during trackout that are enrichment for the sport of your childs choice. Many compete during the summer, and would benefit from winter training opportunities. And Vice Vera.
There are benefits to each calendar, and for each family. It would be nice if there were a way for all families to have choice.
You missed the point. The
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 15:18 — Eric_BYou missed the point. The point is that high poverty schools do not automatically equal poor performance for low income students and low poverty schools do not automatically equal high performance for low income students.
If the low income students at the school with the highest F&R percentage can outperform low income students at a school with one of the lowest F&R percentages, maybe the F&R percentage of a school has nothing to do with student achievement. Maybe we should stop trying to balance out F&R percentages at schools because it does not help student academic achievement.
Bob Sconce has said he has calculated the correlation coefficient and found little to no correlation between F&R percentage at a school and EOG test scores for low income students at that school.
The school board should order a study to help determine this effects of the diversity policy instead of merely assuming it works. The board seems to be following faith-based education policy.
“You missed the point.
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 16:13 — user1234“You missed the point. “
My point is that I don’t think you controlled for all the variables to make your conclusion. It is a good data point but there may be other influences like YR which actually contribute the difference.
“Maybe we should stop trying to balance out F&R percentages at schools because it does not help student academic achievement. “
Again, I don’t think this is about individuals but schools. If they could take a bad school and make it go from 10% pass to 20% pass that is great progress but not what they are being measured to. Also, there is more to be consider to having concentration of high needs kids in a few school beyond test schools like the affect on the community, violence, teacher retention, etc.
“Bob Sconce has said he has calculated the correlation coefficient and found little to no correlation between F&R percentage at a school and EOG test scores for low income students at that school. “
I think Bob has the same problem of taking putting the data into a spreadsheet, hitting a button, getting a number out and coming to a conclusion. You really need more controls to make a valid conclusion. Be glad that Bob does not run the trail for cancer drugs.
Can I ask you a question? Do you care about these poor kids? Really? Do you even know any personally? Is your motivation for a study solely based on your deep concern for poor kids and as a result you would embrace them and welcome into your school if the study showed a positive correlation?
A master at a "baiting" style of question
Tue, 01/20/2009 - 16:42 — Dadof3Example "A" of an insincere and baiting question:
Using the same rhetorical device, Eric B should only answer once you come clean (I mean, you know, really) on how your substance and child abuse problems are working out.
You know; really.
No … it is an honest
Tue, 01/20/2009 - 17:42 — user1234No … it is an honest question …
If Eric says he is an F&R parent and he does not want his kids going to a rich school, or he says that he has represented the F&R cause for the last three reassignments it adds a lot of weight to his concerns and shows a long term commitment to the cause. If Eric continues to champion the causes of the poor after the reassignment cloud settles and continues to fight against the disparity between rich and poor schools than I want to hear what he has to say.
But if Eric lives in Preston and simple does not like the attitude of kids coming in from outsidePreston and appoints himself as the champion the poor to keep the undesirable out of his schools that is disingenuous. He does not have the interest of the F&R kids at heart but is using them as a means to his own end.