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WakeEd

The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? How will the new choice-based assignment system work now that the socioeconomic diversity policy has been eliminated? How will Superintendent Tony Tata lead the state's largest district through more budget cuts and possible layoffs? How will the board respond to growth and the school construction program?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

Rallying supporters of the new school board

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We could have a showdown next week between supporters and opponents of the new Wake County school board majority.

The state chapter of Americans for Prosperity, a conservative group, is organizing a "Support the New Board Rally" for 2:30 p.m. next Tuesday just before the regular meeting. They're also urging people stay for the regular board meeting that begins at 3 p.m. when the board opponents will also be there.

"Let me be clear, union organizers will fight our new school board at every turn and you must join the fight now so the noisy union bosses and special interests do not win the day," said Dallas Woodhouse, head of the state chapter is his call to action message.

Woodhouse takes aim at the various complaints about the new board made by the leadership of Wake NCAE. He characterizes the new board's opponents as "union organizers, special interests and defenders of the status quo."

Last week's public comment section was dominated by opponents of the new board. The supporters of the new board had largely left by then after attending the swearing-in ceremony for the new board members. 

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Who is going to get this on video?

http://www.wral.com/news/education/story/6591132/

This could be entertaining!

Follow this link:

http://www.biggerpicture4wake.com/index.html

Hmm, links to WakeUp Wake County and Wake Ed Partnership.

Options are magnets and year round, nothing else.

Blame growth and sell year round as the solution.

Mention Raleigh and no other municipalities.

Support for maintaining diversity as number one priority.

No mention of actual student achievement.

They call that promoting change? Isn't that exactly what we had for the last eight years or more?

A complete and utter joke. 

A complete and utter joke.  That gaggle hails from the Leesville area.  4 bored housewives latching onto anyone who wants their support.  NAACP was their latest prey.  No substance, no threat. 

Okay. Let me get this straight...

The teabaggers will be teabagging the teabaggers?

Funny if it wasn't so darn

Funny if it wasn't so darn creepy.

I find the complaints from

I find the complaints from the new board haters very interesting. The new board has yet to accomplished one thing that has a measurable end point such as F&R test results, empty YR tracks, etc. Mounds of data, however, have been generated that clearly established the bussing for diversity policy to be at best a waste of tax payer dollars to at worst a destructive policy that hurts F&R and non-F&R alike plus a waste of tax payer dollars. In addition, the re-assignment and YR nightmares were plenty for everyone to find something to complain about. So these people complaints can only about what they "think" may happen. Purely speculative. You folks have FAILED. Your policies did not work. I say shut up and go home until you have something real to complain about. Right now, you're just in the way.

Shut Up and Go Home?

Jefferson maintained that all men are created equal; Madison wrote the first amendment to provide people with the right to peaceful assembly.........what unmitigated gall to say to any citizen in this county, "shut up and go home".  Many people, myself included, have not always agreed with how the former Board went about implementing its diversity policy.  Many people, myself included, have always wanted to have every side heard so that the best possible decisions could be made.  Many people, myself included, still want to have a REAL public, civil debate in order to best serve ALL students in Wake County.  Any member of the public has the right to address the Board in the public comment period...this means those supportive of new the Board and those opposed.  We are NOT in the way.  Additionally, teachers, whether members of NCAE or not, who choose to speak on behalf of policies they believe best serve students should not be referred to here (on the blog generally) as whiners.  They are dedicated professionals and should be honored as such.

You miss my point.  I want

You miss my point.  I want constructive ideas on how to move forward.  I don't want people to stand in the way of changing what has proven to be a failure just because they wanted it to work so badly.  It hasn't worked. It has failed.  Now - all new ideas are welcome. Just stop complaining that we're no longer continuing you fail policies.  If that's all you have to add, go home b/c its been heard before.  Its been tried and failed.  We're done with that stage.  Now we're moving forward.  Some of you (and I don't mean necessarily you) are arguing against policies that haven't even been made yet and things you have no idea whether or not they will be implemented or what kind of results they will yield.  We've voted to scrap the old diversity policy.  Why continue to debate it at the cost of making a real difference.

The new board has not made

The new board has not made clear that any form of debate will be welcomed or heard at all. 

And we will stay in the way....just as you did

I'm not saying WCPSS is perfect but...

Neighborhood schools may work in towns like Marigotia's Elmwood City, NJ pop 20,000 2% African-American, high school with 700 kids, or Tedesco's Highlands, NJ population 5,000 1.5% AA,  7-12 school with 500 kids...but it's a difficult story with 130,000+ students.

If neighborhood schools were the magic bullet in districts this large you could go on the road as a consultant and make millions.

And do us all a favor and stop referring to WCPSS policy toward F&R/ED, etc. as a "failure" in order to justify your selfish desire to have your children go to schools with children in like socio-econ/racial communities. Like you really care about anyone else.....No one except your other blog buddies believes you.

Gosh, you sure know a lot of personal information

Can we say dirt digging operation.

 It seems that since you and your buddies have failed at the policy argument, you are hell bent to engage in the politics of personal destruction.

No child ever got educated due to your incessant rants .....

Or busing for that matter.

 But I am sure that won't stop you.  

 

HUH?????? Dirt

HUH?????? Dirt digging???????????   Knowing where they are from??????????????  Do you want to clarify and or restate your post???

How in the world is posting where they are from the size of the towns and make up of them "personal destruction?" 

I apologize for all the "?" but seriously this is just one of the most absurd posts I've read ever. 

Dirt Digging?? Personal destruction ??

Come Again?

 Ron's bio is well known.  He has been long celebrated  as an engaged  adn active school board member from Jersey- and president of his school board  as well.

 So you believe Ron's bio  is "dirt"- something to be ashamed of that should be hidden? 

Tedesco too??

Attacking your own fictional creation

And do us all a favor and stop referring to WCPSS policy toward F&R/ED, etc. as a "failure" in order to justify your selfish desire to have your children go to schools with children in like socio-econ/racial communities.

My take-away from this is that it is emotionally important to you to apply this strawman to opposing points of view. Good luck with that.

Interesting...

(1)  You haven't said why WCPSS' 130K+ kids make it "a different story."  If size is the problem, then break the district into 30 smaller districts.

(2)  You turned the argument around -- under your logic, the busing policy doesn't need to justify itself, but the absence of a busing policy does need to justify itself. I guess if the district painted all the schools bright orange, the people who wanted them left unpainted would have to show that doing so was a "magic bullet."

(3)  Your last paragraph is just an ad hominem attack and doesn't go to the merits of either position at all.

Is half-baked logic and personal attacks really the best you can do?  Have you considered running for Governor?

1. Any difference in running

1. Any difference in running a computer repair shop and IBM???  Never say never but I don't think it will happen

2. Wake County would never had grown as it has for the past 40 years if the school system was as bad as you (and others) claim. As I said it's not perfect but it's better than most.....it's not fair to compare Scarsdale, Short Hills, or Greenwich to Wake as many here do...indirectly.

3. Probably could have done without those comments, but I just get tired of reading how much everyone "cares" for  those "poor F&R" kids

 

Caring is overrated

I'm sick of this logic:  "The old board may have failed miserably at helping F&R students, but at least they cared."

 

well I sort of agree but

well I sort of agree but call me a bleeding heart, at least they were doing something tangible and had research behind them.  Disagree with the research, I know, but I just don't want to move to a Guilford model and I have heard CRICKETS from the New BOE and its supporters when asked for their tangible plans to address the problems of low income students and the ADDITIONAL poverty concentrations that will be created. 

I think we'd feel so much better if they'd just put "closing racial and income achievement gap" up there on that overhead!!  I tried to convince myself that "helping all students..." was another way of saying it but I don't think it is.

All means all

or as John Tedesco put it a school system that challenges our most gifted and raises up our most vulnerable. The goal is "achieving academic success for all children" and belongs 1st where the new BOE wants to put it.

As far as having closing the gap up there on their overhead - closing the gap was the #1 recommendation from the curriculum audit done a few years ago and implementing those recommendations is already in the Superintendent's goals. The goal is not the source of debate, the methods of achieving the goal are.

My understanding is that at first the justification for going for diversity was it would help low-income students, then when data supporting that didn't pan out, the justification became healthy schools, now I also see some give the vague justification of raising appreciation of diversity. We have meandered away from what the focus needs to be - education of and achieving academic success for all students. What matters is that students are failing - some are failing in 20% F&R schools, some in 40% F&R schools and some in 60% F&R schools. A larger percentage fail in some 15% schools than in some 40% schools. My home county is 50% ED so could never meet the current WCPSS assignment policy no matter how much they bussed and balanced. Instead they have focused on how to actually educate all students instead of where to assign them. To me balancing schools is like a crutch (and a smokescreen). If the crutch is not there you have to figure out how to actually walk or the fact you are falling down becomes a lot more obvious.

We hear about how "we have no bad schools" (I think people at certain schools would debate that) and our SAT scores are better than XYZ district, but I sure don't hear we are rocking on closing the achievement gap with our diversity policy. Why? Because we are not, in fact it is the largest in the state.

If you've heard crickets - you are not listening. People have provided information about a number of possible approaches. Detailed plans on exactly what it all will look like will take time, especially as people want a voice in the process. As it is people are up in arms about how quickly they moved just to step 1 - amend the assignment policy. Generally, a policy comes first then the implementation plan. If the BOE said right now here's how it is all going to be laid out, people would be screaming they didn't have a say.

John Tedesco mentioned the cluster model and asked for feedback. I hope people who support that concept will speak publicly.

You said:  "My

You said:  "My understanding is that at first the justification for going for diversity was it would help low-income students"

That's not correct.  it was changed to SE status in response to legal challenges leveled at other districts.  Prior to that it was integration so a whole other bird.

Uh...

So, the alternatives were (i) abandon any sort of busing for diversity, whether racial or socio-economic, (ii) switch to busing for socio-economic diversity.

(ii) was selected instead of (i) on the basis that it would be more beneficial to poor students.

I'm not convinced.  Are you

I'm not convinced.  Are you saying what the "party line" was at the time or what the true motivations of the people who made it happen were?

We already had successful magnets so I dont think they wanted to wreck that, and it would have been a massive reassignment like the one we either:  1) face right now, or 2) busing is not nearly extensive as people on the blog have argued.  Either way it's not going to be fun. 

I just laughed thinking of Ron's pledge to maintain magnets - how is this possible when removing diversity from the plan as was up there on that overhead! - are they going to pick Enloe up and move it to Green Hope?  I guess I just don't see how it's possible, I'm trying to open my mind but all I see is the fact that in May Ron wanted to elminate the magnet program and now, 6 mos later he is pledgint to protect it?  He doesn't seem like a flip flopper to me so I just don't get it.

Having magnets does require a "diversity" policy

There are districts that no do have our "diversity" policy but have magnet schools, so I am really confused as to why magnet supporters keep thinking changing the assignment policy means not having magnet schools.

There is no reason we cannot

There is no reason we cannot have magnet schools, with a merit-based application process.  Having base nodes assigned to magnets is nuts.  So is assigning kids who will not participate in the enriched course offerings.

Uh...

So, you're saying that they decided to bus for socio-economic diversity because they wanted to maintain the magnet program??

That just seems backwards -- there are two reasons for the magnet program: (1) without busing suburban kids into the city, those schools would be underpopulated, (2) diversity.

I think you misunderstand where students are bussed to/from and are too strictly construing "community schools."  First of all, Magnets are generally ITB, yet those "spot nodes," where students are bussed from, are all over the county.  There are spot notes in the Mini-City area, for example.  Sending those students to a local school won't displace any magnet students.

Here's one way you could do what Ron is suggesting: pretent magnet schools and magnet students don't exist -- leave them untouched.  Then, in the non-magnet schools, just look for pairs of kids at different schools where, if you swap the kids' assignments, they'll each end up at schools closer to home (or, at least, no farther away).  Repeat until you can't find any more. In the end, you will have an approximation of "community schools" that leaves the magnet program intact.

"So, you're saying that they

"So, you're saying that they decided to bus for socio-economic diversity because they wanted to maintain the magnet program?? "

I am not sure - I do think that ending all busing when the decision was made for Charlotte would have shut down the magnet program in Wake.  Is that what you mean? 

I do think that ending all

I do think that ending all busing when the decision was made for
Charlotte would have shut down the magnet program in Wake.  Is that
what you mean? 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think that the Charlotte decision meant that Wake would have to shut down the magnet program.  My understanding is that it was determined that Charlotte could no longer use race as a factor in where kids went to school.  

The magnet program would still be attracting students from other, mostly white parts of the county.  I think that going to a true lottery for magnets will not change the racial or SES makeup of the magnets too terribly much but will have a greater effect on the other schools.  That's what the different priorities in the magnet selection process are about--the base schools.

I said that ending all

I said that ending all busing would have eliminated Wake's magnet program - not that the Charlotte decision meant that we had to end all busing.

I think Charlotte was deemed "unitary." Any lawyers know more?  I don't think the Charlotte decision meant that race could not be used as a factor in any way to determine school assignment.  In fact I know this is not true.

magnets don't have to be

magnets don't have to be about diversity.  Magnets can be about offering a program that is too expensive or specialized to offer everywhere.  They can also be used to fill schools in underpopulated areas.  Diversity doesn't have to anything to do with the reasons behind having magnets.

Ron, to my

Ron, to my knowledge, hasn't said he will eliminate the magnets. Neither has he said he will protect them in their current format. He did ask for magnet crumbs to be passed along to the non-magnets. It is not known yet what direction he and other members will set for WCPSS with respect to magnets but a lot is riding on that.

There was a blog post in May

There was a blog post in May of this year about it...I can't post URL's but if you search you'll find it. 

I know what comments you are

I know what comments you are talking about.  Ron was being sarcastic but he brought up a very interesting question.  Once the court ruled in WCPSS's favor and said that they could assign kids to a year round school without their consent then why do we need magnets?  Just send the kids where we want them to go.  We have that ability and they were certainly going to use it to force people into YR.  WCPSS could assign kids from Five Points or Brier Creek to Enloe for SES diversity.  So why don't they?  Because they know that those families would pitch a fit.   Yet the BOE didn't care that there were many families who didn't want to go YR.  They did it anyway.

I don't always agree with Ron's methods, but really he had nothing to lose by being an instigator on the board.   

Yeah, you are right, the

Yeah, you are right, the Board was definitely concerned with losing good parents to private schools.

oooh, we agree!  Like I

oooh, we agree!  Like I said, I don't always agree with Ron or his delivery of things.  I do believe there is a lot of unfairness in the system.  I think that ITB does get special treatment, but that doesn't mean I fault the families themselves.  They only want what's best for their kids just like everybody else does.  And hey, most people will gladly take the good things they get without complaint.  Plus, I do think that a lot of people, both ITB and elsewhere in the county don't really know what goes on in other areas.  We all make assumptions about how good or bad somebody else has it but its often not the reality.

Anyway, I do understand why magnet parents got upset at what Ron said.  Do I believe that Ron would actually get rid of magnets if he had his choice?  I don't think so, but I don't know for sure.  I do know that no other new board member has said anything about getting rid of magnets and at least one has had a child go through a magnet (Goldman currently has a student at Martin).  I did get this email from Ron a few months ago.  Hopefully he won't mind that I'm posting it here:  My two cents, the
entire magnet program including base populations, acceptance
requirements and justification for existence needs a great deal of
review.  This program with it's structure was adopted many years ago and has not had sufficient critical review.

 I absolutely agree with this 100%.  I think the reason we have magnets and their goals have shifted in many ways and its time for us all to review what role they should fill and how they should be operated.

Number 3

Well, I think many folks on this blog actually do care about the at-risk children in our system. But I think the reason you see them referred to again and again is because of this fact:

The existing policies were designed to help at risk children. The existing policies have been expensive and disruptive to everyone. Many people would have accommodated the expense and disruption if the policies, especially after this many years, had worked. Sadly, the policies have not worked.

It is the policies themselves, with at-risk children squarely described in the goal statement, that have focused on F&R kids. By pointing out that the policies need to be changed its only natural that people would refer to the goal statement and the object of that goal. That said, I think its a good thing, through this process, that we seem to have more people focused on the challenges of at-risk children. Now, let's find a model that actually accomplishes that goal, and maybe even a broader goal: educate ALL children in Wake County. One size does not fit all.

 

Did you see the 60 min piece on the Harlem Children's Zone? Inspiring.  

“The existing policies

“The existing policies were designed to help at risk children. The existing policies have been expensive and disruptive to everyone. Many people would have accommodated the expense and disruption if the policies, especially after this many years, had worked.”

 

SDR, I have never seen what you are talking about.  It seemed like the diversity policy was NOT created to primarily benefit at risk kids but to prevent wide disparity in wealth between schools.  I think you made the at risk = diversity link up.  Most of the “at Risk” kids if you measure that by income are crowded into the few schools listed below.  With neighborhood schools these existing school will only get poorer.   And any poor kids who where lucky enough to go to a top school before are going to be booted out to make room for neighborhood kids.  They are not traveling all over the county in general.  So, four years from now, what will be different for these low wealth schools without diversity?

   

Longview School 71%Bugg Elementary 49%Barwell Elementary 59%Mount Vernon School 68%Powell Elementary 52%East Garner Elementary 59%East Millbrook Middle 44%Smith Elementary 68%Conn Elementary 43%Wilburn Elementary 58%East Garner Middle 50%Fox Road Elementary 61%Creech Road Elementary 64%Knightdale Elementary 56%Carnage Middle 45%East Wake School of Integrated Technology 44%Millbrook Elementary 56%Lynn Road Elementary 47%River Oaks School 82%Vandora Springs Elementary 47%East Wake School of Arts, Education and Global Studies 44%Forestville Road Elementary 43%Wakelon Elementary  67%East Wake Middle 50%Zebulon Middle 49%Wendell Elementary 50%Brentwood Elementary 70%Carroll Middle 44%Hilburn Drive Elementary 42%Lockhart Elementary 45%Lead Mine Elementary 44%Hodge Road Elementary 60%Timber Drive Elementary 40%River Bend Elementary 56%York Elementary 47%Wendell Elementary 50%East Wake School of Arts, Education and Global Studies 44%Aversboro Elementary 52%Stough Elementary 46%Zebulon Elementary 57%Kingswood Elementary  40%Reedy Creek Elementary 41%Dillard Drive Middle 40%Carver Elementary 58%West Millbrook Middle 42%Reedy Creek Middle 41%

Follow this

Oh lord. Here we go. Dog chasing the tail. 

"It seemed like the diversity policy was NOT created to primarily benefit at risk kids but to prevent wide disparity in wealth between schools. "

You say: to prevent wide disparity in wealth between schools. So, why would we want to prevent wide disparity in wealth if not to help kids who are low income, which this system seems to think will automatically fail? Why all the cries of resegregationism if not because of the fear that failing kids will fail faster without the diversity policy? This system believes low income = at risk. Avoiding concentrations of low income is what the diversity policy is about, right? Why do we want to avoid concentrations of low income? This system thinks low income is at-risk. They believe this policy will help low income/at risk kids by preventing concentrations of any (insert label here). 

 

All that said, I am a firm follower of TPG's logic. Low income should not be assumed failure. Let's find the kids who actually are failing and help them. Really help them. Let's find the kids who are helping themselves, in spite of the odds and support their efforts. Let's find the kids who are so bored out of their gourd with this one-size-fits-all-and-helps-few system and challenge them - avoiding trouble there too.  

But why...

So, why worry about not having wide disparities of wealth?  Or is that an end in itself?

The district's approach has always been based on the view that poor kids do better when there aren't wide disparities of wealth.  After all, avoiding wide disparities of wealth clearly isn't intended to help the wealthy students.

 

"So, why worry about not

"So, why worry about not having wide disparities of wealth?"

Because it leads to disparity in offerings ... as I know first hand and mentioned multiple times my daughter does not have the same offering of honors and AP courses and languages at her low wealth school as her friends at the high wealth school.  She is smarter than they are (father's opinion) yet is denied the same opportunity because she goes to school with too many poor kids.  If the opportunity was the same for all kids no matter their income, there would be no disparity and having poor and rich schools would not matter.

"I know first hand and

"I know first hand and mentioned multiple times my daughter does not
have the same offering of honors and AP courses and languages at her
low wealth school as her friends at the high wealth school.  She is
smarter than they are (father's opinion) yet is denied the same
opportunity because she goes to school with too many poor kids. "

If a number of the other academically talented  kids assigned to your daughter's base school hadn't left for magnets, the school would have higher concentrations of these kids, and would likely have the demand to justify offering more honors and AP courses.

"If a number of the other

"If a number of the other academically talented  kids assigned to your daughter's base school hadn't left for magnets, the school would have higher concentrations of these kids, and would likely have the demand to justify offering more honors and AP courses. "

Good point ...... but I hate to think that my neighborhood kids can not attend Enloe and SE because they are required to fill the local AP classes while kids in Apex are free to go follow their dreams.  I would much rather have an AP class of 14 and let the other neighborhood kids pursue their interests at Enloe and SE.

Well... Under current rules

Well... Under current rules your neighborhood kids have much less chance of getting into Enloe/SE.

I totally agree that high F&R schools should get more funding than low F&R schools (in addition to Title I). Problem is that principals would be still tempted to spend the funds on remedial classes. Also, what if only 10  interested students sign up for a certain class? My idea is that district should offer transfer to such students.

To their credit ... our

To their credit ... our school did offer to allow our kids to take courses at another school but we needed to provide the transportation ...  plus getting across town in the 10 minutes between classes would not work.  I would preferred to have a class of 10.  Maybe an online alternative.

getting across town for one

getting across town for one class would not work. Transfer for a year, as long as kid successfully takes classes not available in his base school, would.

Unfortunately

Good point ...... but I hate to think that my neighborhood kids can not
attend Enloe and SE because they are required to fill the local AP
classes while kids in Apex are free to go follow their dreams.  I would
much rather have an AP class of 14 and let the other neighborhood kids
pursue their interests at Enloe and SE.

 Unfortunately, if you live in what is classified as a high ED node and are assigned to a non-magnet school, you won't be allowed into those programs either.  This is the tragedy of the magnet system.  While it may indeed help a base school in some way, it often rewards those who already have the advantages by punishing those who don't.  The "no neighborhood schools" policy applies to the base are population at magnets too.  And if they are assigned to a school other than their area magnet base, the application criteria ensures they will never have the opportunity to avail themselves of the programs' benefits.

Thank you. I take it you

Thank you. I take it you mean that all kids should have equal opportunities. Right now, through the magnet system, the county practices rampant discrimination by depriving students of non-magnet schools. Yes, it isn't just the poor talented kids suffering due to the board's pernicious social engineering.

Yes, that's covered

Yes, that's covered extremely thoroughly on this blog. 

So if that upsets you so - what steps would you urge the new BOE to take to ensure even more equal distribution of opportunities?  Do you support a proximity based assignment model?

I don't believe kids should

I don't believe kids should be spending time in a bus when they can spend it in a classroom. In the same vein, parents can be involved better if schools are nearby. I take advantage of that and volunteer almost weekly in my son's school despite my professional commitments.  Thus, I am in favor of exploring the proximity based model to deliver a higher quality education for all students. I would advocate equitable distribution of resources but would draw the line at the school system stepping in as a surrogate parent. That function should fall to private and other public entities.

Gotcha.  By equitable,

Gotcha.  By equitable, that's saying giving additional resources at low wealth schools, right?  My only take is that this is what everyone else is doing....and I think it is the definition of insanity to follow them off a cliff. 

Insanity.   Kinda like

Insanity.   Kinda like WCPSS forging ahead with MYR after seeing such dismal results all over the US.  Time for change 4 sure!

I supported an end to MYR

I supported an end to MYR immediately after it was brought up.

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.

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