Wake County school administrators think they know which magnet school you'll go to in August but they want to make sure about it first with the school board.
School administrators have preliminarily placed 4,589 of this year's 7,670 magnet applicants under new selection criteria that no longer uses socioeconomic diversity for most magnet schools. Administrators say they want the board's official blessing on Wednesday for the new criteria before notifying families.
Staff is uncertain about how many of the 2,850 year-round and 1,776 traditional-calendar applicants will be placed.
The board had passed a resolution in January saying "every effort will be made" to accommodate calendar requests. But the reality of school crowding means the results will depend on various student reassignment decisions that the board will make at a 6 p.m. Wednesday work session.
The goal is to notify families about the results of their magnet and calendar applications on April 8.
Click here for a handout that was presented at Tuesday's school board meeting. No details were provided for the number of acceptances per school because staff wants a good indication of the decisions the board will make.
Previously, magnet selection priority was given to applicants from more affluent areas who could help create balance at schools in poor areas.
Staff had largely eliminated the use of socioeconomic diversity in filling magnet schools in anticipation of the board's passage of the community schools resolution. The resolution, which passed 5-4 on Tuesday, has a provision calling for the immediate end to the use of diversity in filling magnet and calendar schools.
Socioeconomic diversity was only preliminarily used this year to fill applicants for the Wake Early College of Health and Sciences, which allows students to get a high school diploma and two years of college credit in five years. Diversity was used to help carry out the school's goal of luring in students who'd be the first in their family to attend college.
In lieu of diversity, staff stuck with existing guidelines that give priority to siblings and to applicants who want to leave crowded schools. The last 10 percent of openings continue to be filled randomly.
Some parents objected strongly in the past with the old selection criteria, arguing for a true lottery. While the new criteria doesn't fill seats in a totally random manner, it does make it easier for applicants who want to leave schools that have high poverty levels and are also crowded.
For a comparison, see last year's selection criteria.
Even though the new criteria listed for magnet schools in the handout doesn't mention it, Laura Evans, Wake's senior director of Growth and Planning, said they're still retaining the pathway system. Under the pathways, magnet elementary schools have placement priority to get into certain magnet middle schools and magnet high schools.
A number of parents whose children are in the gifted and talented themed magnet program have been contacting staff to make sure they still have priority to get into Enloe High School.
Comments
stability
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 20:53 — turnerk1Given that new schools will continue to be built for the foreseeable future, I don't understand how the community schools model provides any more or any less stability than any other assignment model. Children will still have to be moved out of one school to fill a new school. More schools will be built in the higher growth areas of the county which have already experienced more reassignment. Won't that continue to happen no matter how assignment decisions are made? I can see how ignoring diversity considerations might effect WHERE people are sent, but I don't understand how it will lessen how often people are sent to new schools.
As others have answered,
Sun, 03/28/2010 - 16:45 — jenmanAs others have answered, many of our assignments are due to diversity, not growth. When low income kids from downtown are reassigned to a brand new school far away, it is counted as being for growth but in reality it is for diversity. Having community schools would mean the end of 15 and 18 mile assignments for some kids. That is a positive thing, especially since the majority of low income kids have been moved from a school under 40% to one that is under 25%.
In the past few years, GM has concentrated more on raising F&R at some schools than it has on lowering F&R at higher poverty schools.
Reassignment reasons include
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 22:19 — red_balloonReassignment reasons include 'diversity' and growth. The number of reassignments should go down if 'diversity' is retired.
So...
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 22:13 — Bob_SconceThere are several obvious ways that dropping the diversity policy helps.
First of all, it gives the district one fewer reason to reassign students -- previously, assignments were made (a) due to growth and (b) for diversity reasons. There are all sorts of stories of F&R students being repeatedly reassigned to different schools, and those spots having to be backfilled when they left a school.
Secondly, abandoning the policy allows the district to agree to more conditions when builders wants to build schools. Previously, because of the diversity policy, the district was unwilling to tell a developer "if you build a school next to your neighborhood, we can guarantee that students from that neighborhood will go to the school." The concern was that the agreement would prevent F&R students from being assigned to the school.
Third, it's not at all clear that students will need to be moved out to fill new schools. It could be, for example, that schools are populated started in Kindergarten and fill as students get older. Or, depending on how large the zones are, perhaps only new subdivisions get assigned to new schools.
thanks for answers
Sun, 03/28/2010 - 17:21 — turnerk1Thanks for the answers posted to my question. But, the answers I see here are more that which children would be reassigned might change, but again there would still be reassignments. As for builders being allowed to build schools, I think that the school system would still turn that down as builders typically want to build smaller schools and would not want to build to the same standards that WCPSS uses, etc.
Lastly, Bob, I can't imagine filling an elementary school starting in Kindergarten. Many, many elementary school children have siblings in elementary school given that it covers 6 years. In a family-friendly environment, starting an elementary school in Kindergarten would mean many families with kids in more than one school. If WCPSS wanted to do that they could have started doing that long ago no matter where they were pulling students from. I don't see how having an attendance zone would change that scenario.
Well
Sun, 03/28/2010 - 20:34 — Bob_SconceYou cannot completely get rid of reassignments -- the small school district I grew up in just had one, even though the district has been completely built out. But, you can reduce their incidence, and you can also use them to get students closer to home instead of farther away.
The starting schools in Kindergarten thing was just an example -- the point is that a new school opening does not require a mass reassignment into the new school.
oops - not worded well
Sun, 03/28/2010 - 17:23 — turnerk1I should clarify that I mean starting a new elementary school with only Kindergarteners and then allowing the school to fill by adding a grade at a time which is what I think Bob was talking about in his answer to me.
Duke Professor Says Diversity, Parental Choice Can Work Together
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 18:55 — AngelaWRALEIGH, N.C. - A Duke University professor said there is a way to design a better school assignment policy that meets both parents needs and the district's. Earlier this week, the Wake County School Board voted 5-4 to end the district's diversity policy by stopping the practice of busing students to achieve socio-economic balance, and instead switch to neighborhood-based assignments. It was a move that resulted in heated debate and protests on each side. That's not surprising to Atila Abdulkadiroglu, Duke University economics professor. "One of the hardest problems a parent has is to choose a school for their child," said Abdulkadiroglu. He's studied and researched the school systems in places like Boston and New York City, both of which give parents a choice. "Their system gives priority to students at their neighborhood schools and at the same time it also gives students an opportunity to attend schools outside their neighborhood," said Abdulkadiroglu. He said solely assigning students to schools based on proximity will lead to resegregation. "That has happend in the past and community based assignment has been tried and abolished elsewhere," said Abdulkadiroglu. But, he said by giving parents an option, it can help maintain diversity if they choose to send their child out of their community school, while also allowing them to stay close to home if they wish. "Each school gives priority to the neighborhood kids in assignment, but each school also opens up extra seats for students outside the neighborhood," said Abdulkadiroglu. He said it's a middle ground solution that works well in other districts and could work in Wake County. "If you design the system carefully, it can really ease parents' pain," said Abdulkadiroglu. He also said that before school districts decide to go in this route, it's important to collect parental preferences of schoosl so they would have a better idea of if the model would work.
magnet families fight for diversity...because we get it.
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 17:04 — admgBefore my girls entered the magnet program at Powell GT Magnet Elementary I didn't get it either---like those of you who talk about the magnet program being about offering special opportunities to select individuals.. THIS IS INCORRECT... When magnet parents say they are fighting for diversity they are. My point is -I'm fighting for those children, my children's friends, who deserve to have a good education that otherwise have so much against them. I'm talking about the kind of education that comes with having parents involved in the school, classroom and pta (raising money for programs like writers in residence, and field trip funding.) I'm talking about seeing first hand monday morning when the children arrive at school rushing to the cafeteria for their first decent meal since Friday, and the 15 hugs I get from kids that I've had the opportuntity to read to or work with in the classroom that don't get it from home. Once you're part of the magnet family...you get it. If you don't- you get out. It's not all about the electives...which have to be good to attract us in the first place. It's about balance and offering quality education for all students who would otherwise be stuck in a low performing or failing school. This is what we will have so instead of insulting magnet families and our motivation for fighting the diversity policy why don't you educate yourself. Come visit Powell. Be careful, you may join our fight. To the new board majority.....the teachers and the prinicipals are you employees -since you yourself have little to know experience in education why not talk to your employees and find out what works and what doesn't!
This Is No Different Than My Non-Magnet
Mon, 03/29/2010 - 08:05 — JanisTangoWhen magnet parents say they are fighting for diversity they are. My point is -I'm fighting for those children, my children's friends, who deserve to have a good education that otherwise have so much against them. I'm talking about the kind of education that comes with having parents involved in the school, classroom and pta (raising money for programs like writers in residence, and field trip funding.) I'm talking about seeing first hand monday morning when the children arrive at school rushing to the cafeteria for their first decent meal since Friday, and the 15 hugs I get from kids that I've had the opportuntity to read to or work with in the classroom that don't get it from home.
This experience is not unique to a 'magnet' parent. We have the same situation in our school. In fact we have parents that come on 'Hug' Friday to encourage some of our more vunerable children to keep coming to school. Many of them don't show up to school for days at a time. The difference for us is these kids get shuffled like a deck of cards. I wish I knew what happened to some of the kids that got yanked out a few years ago. I wonder if some other parent is there to give them the 'hug' I use to give them every Friday!
Why don't you fight for the low performing and failing??
Sun, 03/28/2010 - 22:48 — raleighlauraPoint taken about
Sun, 03/28/2010 - 16:38 — jenmanPoint taken about Powell. What about magnets that aren't in low income neighborhoods? That is where my issue with magnets comes in. The ones that actually bus in low income students because there aren't enough around the school.
Can you list the magnets you
Sun, 03/28/2010 - 17:17 — carson79Can you list the magnets you have an issue with? I think I know an elementary that fits what you say but not sure, and I think "bus in" may be a little misleading - you often talk about assignment of poor kids from SE Raleigh to Green Hope, so people think this distance is what you are talking about, when we don't know how far you are talking about.
i don't get it
Sun, 03/28/2010 - 09:04 — loriacOnce you're part of the magnet family...you get it.
You get what? One of my friend's kids was finally accepted into magnets schools after 5 years of being denied. She is amazed by the night and day aspects of the education available to kids in Wake County - non-magnet education is no comparison. She was also surprised by the sense of entitlement among other magnet parents - that once there, they had something that should not under any circumstances be taken away. So - they get it alright - they have something few others in Wake County have access to for free.
WCPSS turns away as many or more applications than they accept. Most do not get the fact that it is not an equal lottery - depending on what node you are in, your kids do not have an equal shot at a magnet education.
I also don't get why if magnets are so great, do the ED populations perform so poorly? Breakfast is offered at other non-magnet schools as well. So are hugs by the many parent volunteers at non-magnet schools.
Magnet schools are great educations for those lucky enough to be accepted as magnet students. Magnet schools are great for advertising how wonderful the schools are in Raleigh - just look at all the awards. Unfortunately, magnet schools are by no means a reflection of the rest of the education our kids receive in Wake County.
Sorry - I just don't get it.
I applaud your spirited
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 22:41 — red_balloonI applaud your spirited defence of 'diversity'. However, let me share
with you a little known fact. The vast majority of parents need not
hold a winning lottery ticket to attain enlightenment. I am glad you
attained 'diversity' nirvana once at a magnet school, but give it a
rest. Non-magnets parents are not clueless about diversity or the need
to assimilate diversity into the various facets of their lives. We may
not have won the magnet lottery but neither have we lost the diversity
in our lives. Our diversity does not come into focus when viewed through
the F&R lens but, if you appreciate true diversity, you will love
the diversity in our neighborhoods, workplaces, playgrounds, and
schools. We may not be a social engineer's delight but neither are we an
undifferentiated mass of callous humanity.
...
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 21:46 — SideburnsAnd the rest of us are thick? Please.
There are many schools around this county that share similar experiences. You don't have to be a "magnet family" to volunteer, give hugs or read and work in the classroom. Some of us enjoy those very aspects of our school but don't have the enticing electives. We also get to watch those children "who have so much against them" get reassigned the following year. Get over yourself.
I completely agree
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 20:52 — TKDMomAs a magnet I completely agree.
But
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 19:14 — lferreriBut for ED and Black students, Powell is "a low performing or failing school". Only 52.2% of Black students and 47.0% of ED students are at grade level in math and reading. In my opinion, this isn't acceptable particularly for a magnet school since they get extra resources.
Rome wasn't built in a day
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 20:25 — Solon77The appropriate measure is year over year improvement. At a time when all schools nationally have stagnated, this school in 2005-06 has ED and Black have improved scores from 30.3% and 30.9% to 47.0% and 52.2% respectively. By all accounts this is very good progress. With regards to the community schools - what targets are being set for ED and Black students and in what time period are these to be achieved ?
I disagree
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 21:46 — lferreriWhy is improvement the appropriate measure? This school has been a magnet for many years. If it has had abysmal performance in the past (and I consider 30.3% and 30.9% abysmal), why is it okay that they are "less bad"? Children who are not at grade level in math and reading have very little chance for future success. If, since 2005-2006, a school has "improved" to only preparing about half of its Black and ED students, in my opinion, they should be in some serious trouble. This low passing rate represents a failure to educate hundreds of students.
diversity in magnets
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 23:34 — SatchHHMany parents who send their children to magnets live in areas that have schools that rival or best the magnets academically in many ways. They do seek the diversity of the magnets - one magnet parent told me that, "If I wanted my child to go to school only with children from our neighborhood that look just like him, I would have stayed in New Jersey." Her child goes to the magnet in large part for the diversity it offers.
Don't assume you know the motives of all magnet parents.
I agree that many parents do
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 10:09 — jenmanI agree that many parents do value the divesity. I seriously doubt that too many (any?) would send their kids to a magnet solely for the diversity.
I don't need to survey all
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 23:46 — red_balloonI don't need to survey all magnet parents to know that some are in it for the diversity, some for the stability, and some for the academics. Until proven otherwise, I believe the enhanced academics are the primary driver.
Below is an excerpt from the Fed's MSA site ...http://www2.ed.gov/programs/magnet/index.html
The special curriculum of a magnet school attracts substantial numbers
of students from different social, economic, ethnic, and racial
backgrounds and provides greater opportunities for voluntary and
court-ordered desegregation efforts to succeed.
diversity wand at brentwood?
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 23:03 — red_balloonThe school has 404 enrolled now and 119 magnet acceptances for 2010. Assuming all 10 base applicants were accepted, Brentwood will have 198 non-F&R students (89 current + 109 new students from 2010-11). Assuming no more capacity is added i.e., the 109 non-base magnet applicants displace 109 current F&R Brentwood students, the F&R rate drops from 78% to 51%. If the preceding is accurate, does it mean Brentwood's school level achievements will be transformed by 'diversity'? By moving out 109 F&R kids?
why?
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 21:28 — red_balloonA number of parents whose children are in the gifted and talented themed magnet program have been contacting staff to make sure they still have priority to get into Enloe High School.
The MS magnet students have already enjoyed a better quality education. Why can't non-magnet students or non-magnet AG students get a higher priority? Or at least the same priority? GM should be obligated to provide transparency. And while at it, quit saying there are four rounds. With sibling placements, there are five known rounds. There are probably more rounds if the 'lottery' process has no visibility, audits, and controls.
How do I know my Base School's "current crowding factor"
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 15:33 — robtdeWhere can I find out the current crowding factor of base schools?
Go here:
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 15:44 — jenmanGo here: www.wcpss.net/demographics/quickfacts/index_qf.html Then select the 2009 school year for whichever level you're looking for (elem, middle, high). The crowding factor should be on that document.
I am not sure how to
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 15:11 — JSBinNCI am not sure how to interpret the line items... are the totals (I am looking on page 7 of attach. 2) the totals of NEW people accepted, or totals of new and current?
TIA...
It's strictly totals based
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 15:12 — KeungHui (author)It's strictly totals based on new applicants.
thanks - so 146 new
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 15:23 — JSBinNCthanks - so 146 new applicants have been allocated seats at Millbrook ES if I am reading this right... not that they have accepted the spot - but they have a seat if they want it.
Just trying to guage how well my word of mouth advertising is doing...
Just from your postings
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 15:41 — jenmanJust from your postings here, I've talked up Millbrook as a place that people should check out!
THanks - I've done the same
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 17:27 — JSBinNCTHanks - I've done the same with EMMS!
From all I've heard your
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 17:56 — changewcpssFrom all I've heard your schools are on the way up. Good work.
Yep.
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 15:27 — KeungHui (author)Yep.
...
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 15:00 — SideburnsNice to read some truth for a change. It's never been about "diversity" for Enloe -- only about the programs offered to some children.
Nice insults Alison, I do
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 16:17 — Courage21Nice insults Alison,
I do not have a child in this situation , but I do have friends who are and for them it's as much about stability and staying with childhood friends (including diverse friends) as it is about the programs. Isn't a huge argument on your side that children should be able to be with kids in their community and to maintain friendships in school and in their neighborhood? Now imagine that your child had been with the same community and group of friends since they were 5 years old- only it's been in a magnet school- not in their neighborhood. They are now entering high school. They are planning on going to Enloe. Wouldn't it be important to you that your children be able to stay in school with their friends and their community? Why do you totally insult people who only want the same things you purport to want? Why when they want their kids to go to school with who they consider to be their "community" does it have to be only about wanting superior programming? I think your biases toward magnet students are blinding you. They are not the "elite". They are kids and families from all kinds of incomes that want a lot of what you want and demand. Why should meeting your demands be at the cost of them losing everything- especially their lifelong school friendships?
Insult or truth?
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 21:30 — red_balloonInsult or truth?
I agree that stability
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 17:53 — changewcpssI agree that stability should be considered for everyone, and to magnet students the magnet program is their neighborhood. I completely disagree that the magnet students care about diversity. They only care about diversity if it keeps the magnet system intact. They care about maintaining their electives. I don't blame them for wanting to keep the magnet offerings, but they need to be honest about what is really important to them. It does not surprise me one bit to hear about the Enloe parents efforts.
I don't think their were
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 19:45 — Courage21I don't think their were any "efforts" by Enloe parents listed. Just a request for information.
I heard today that JenMan's kids used to go to Joyner but that it ended up being too far from home for her. Part of going to most magnet's involves a sacrifice of time and effort on the part of parents and children. Why don't they deserve continuity? I haven't heard any large magnet contingent claiming that people who go to their base school in the suburbs shouldn't have continuity. Unfortunately growth has gotten in the way of that. When did the Magnet students become the whipping boy of this new board and their supporters? I didn't hear of any of this during the school board campaigns!
Courage--yes, we did 4 years
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 10:05 — jenmanCourage--yes, we did 4 years at Joyner. The first 2 years we had no bus at all (11 miles each way, about an hour round trip) and then the last 2 years we were sneaking on an express bus stop that was 7 miles from home, but with wait times for the express bus it was still about 45 minutes round trip.
We would have stayed if we had a bus stop closer to home. We fought for one for 2 years, and the year after we left they finally got one. Too late for us, but I was very happy for the other families up my way.
I agree that magnet families deserve community and continuity just like everybody else.
Continuity...
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 22:37 — Bob_SconceThe question is whether one student's desire for "continuity" outweighs another student's desire for access to the district's best programs.
I see no reason why a student who, say, moved here in 8th grade should not have the same access to Enloe's magnet program as a student who was born here and whose parents applied to the magnet program as a Kindergartener.
The only rationale that I can see is that they've been promised that in
the past. IMO, the district should stop making that promise -- if
you're in the program now, it may make sense to allow you to keep that
preference. But, going forward, the program should be opened up to
allow more people to enter later in their academic careers.
Magnet Track
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 07:03 — TKDMomDid the new school board not campaign on stability and continuity? Sould like they are just keeping a promise. The magnet schools are a neighborhood - the neighborhood of Wake County.
From what I have read here,
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 07:56 — red_balloonFrom what I have read here, four years at one school seems to be a good deal. Plus, by giving priority to non-magnets, WCPSS will educate more within the magnet framework.
..
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 10:37 — Dove314Are you suggesting that a new model be implemented with students having a fixed number of years in the magnet program, e.g. 4 years, which could occur anywhere during the 12 years they are in school to facilitate more children experiencing the magnet framework?
I am stating that assurances
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 15:47 — red_balloonI am stating that assurances of continuity cannot be used to have a lock on an enriched curriculum won by a lottery and while depriving non-magnets to enhance the appeal of magnets. And from what I have read thus far, if those with a privileged route to Enloe are sent back to their base non-magnets, I think a four year stability is better than what has been afforded to some families.
But all said and done, the BOE needs to look at individual student performances at least for MS and HS magnets. I see no reason why they could not have instituted that for 2010 - 11. If someone wants a better quality education in WCPSS, please let them earn it until the day arrives when magnet like education is not constrained by social engineering and resources and is available at schools across the county.
Solving existing resentment
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 18:35 — Dove314As much it would be ideal to promise children stability in school assignment, it has to be done evenly across magnets, YR, and traditional calendars. It is inherently unfair to stabilize one of these groups and not the others. That mismatch right now is one of the problems of the current magnet assignment process and has led to one source of the resentment expressed now by those not in the magnet feeder track. It should be all or it should be none. The community schools model seems to provide the stability for all but there is currently no information available about what is being planned for WCPSS and it comes at the expense of inherent clustering by SES which comes with it's own set of problems.
The second factor feeding the resentment from those not assigned to magnets is unique programs, including the various electives of the G/T magnets which are the factor used to draw students to apply. This one may be the more difficult to solve. Whether within a standard magnet model or within the choice options within a community schools model, the board majority will have to make a choice. Either schools will be allowed to inherently have some differing programs and characteristics such as key electives or foci which influence those making the choice to apply or you have to allow no differences between schools. It is most likely not financially feasible to have all programs available in all schools given most are tied to specific grants provided to an individual school or program. Some sponsor can fund a program in one school but not 159 schools.
It would be good to know the
Sun, 03/28/2010 - 09:05 — red_balloonIt would be good to know the economics of offering twelve electives. I wonder how granular is WCPSS' accounting system.
...
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 17:05 — SideburnsWow -- you read a lot into that statement.
Sadly, I don't have to imagine any of those things. My child has experienced a lack of stability, a loss of connections and friendships and will again when she starts middle school on a different feeder pattern than her current school.
My comment was not meant to insult. It was merely to point out that some people believe they deserve priority status access to the classes and programs at Enloe. Their desire to go to Enloe has zero to do with the diversity of that school as so many purport.
And these same people -- the ones who publicly support GSIW, the NAACP, Keep Diversity, etc and chant "resegregation", yell "racist" and turn a blind eye to vandalism -- are privately sending emails to look out for themselves.
I didn't expect anything different.
Question for you
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 14:53 — supportwcpssDoes this include the set of schools just converted back 2 weeks ago?
It should.
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 15:12 — KeungHui (author)It should.