We got a taste last night of how Lacy Elementary parents are arguing they shouldn't be reassigned to Stough Elementary.
During last night's hearing at Fuquay-Varina High, Hunt Choi argued that there was no need to reassign Lacy students to Stough or Root Elementary. Previously, the Lacy parents have been talking with school board members in private.
Choi argued that Lacy wasn't overcrowded, one of the reasons given for moving students out of the school. He said the school district's growth projections for the school are too high.
Choi then tackled the diversity issue.
The various Lacy moves would raise the school's percentage of low-income students from 22.9 percent to 34.1 percent.
The various moves at Stough would lower its LI percentage from 39.3 percent to 33.3 percent.
Choi said that leaving the nodes at Lacy would put the school's LI percentage at 30 percent, which he said is comparable to other nearby schools and the county average.
Choi said Stough's LI percentage would drop substantially even without the Lacy students because the school is no longer being recommended as the traditional-calendar opt out for Leesville Road Elementary. Most of the students from Leesville are low-income.
The Stough parents, while applauding the Lacy moves, have also asked that the school not be the new opt out for Brier Creek Elementary. They've been the ones who've shown up in large numbers at the public hearings to support moving the Lacy students and ask for the Brier Creek change.
Rumor has it that more Lacy parents will speak at tonight's hearing at East Wake High.
There are only 19 speakers registered for tonight so there's plenty of space for signing up at the door.
Comments
2nd Hour
Tue, 01/20/2009 - 12:18 — MNmomThe second hour is now online. It starts with the three Stough parents.
Videotape of E. Wake
Sat, 01/17/2009 - 23:26 — PutosThe videotape of the E. Wake meeting is not complete. On the website, there are two sessions listed: Hour 1 and Hour 2. Hour 1 ends about with 4-5 speakers left. Hour 2 is repeat video of the Apex H.S. meeting.
Well gee, Sideburns. Lacy
Sat, 01/17/2009 - 14:38 — jenmanWell gee, Sideburns. Lacy parents don't want MYR--that's why they don't have it. :-)
Lacy clueless and loose with the facts
Fri, 01/16/2009 - 11:48 — R4EqualityHey, you cant blame Lacy parents for trying....After all they basically have a private school built with public funds. They had a $22M upgrade to the school and gained approximately 21 seats (you to the math). Now the BOE puts forth the plan to add Lacy to the reassignment plan after years of not being included and the parents cry foul. In past years they have been mysteriously removed from the plan at the last minute, after closed meetings and negotiations.
Will they stay in the BOE Plan this time? One of the eight board members making the decision lives in the Lacy community. Lacy has access and has had private meetings with the board. Lacy's case is very weak, but they do have clout and access.
In the public meetings they have misrepresented their statistics, the surrounding schools statistics, and argued they are not overcrowded (according to growth management they are overcapacity by close to 200 students).
The reassignment plan is about creating equality and fairness in schools across all of wake county. Reassignments are difficult, but Wake County made the decision to create a fair and equitable schools system for ALL schools in wake county. That means all schools must share in the implementation of the plan. Lacy wants to be excluded for no valid reasons. The comments from Lacy parents that they don't want their children to go to surrounding schools (at most 2 miles away) is evidence that all schools are not equal, and the reassignment needs to move forward.
Lacy parents, Lacy is a PUBLIC school, it's time to support fairness and equality!
Who is clueless?
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 11:48 — BromhalOriginal plans for the "new" Lacy were to remodel the existing school at a similar cost to the new school being built. Lacy parents at the time pushed for a larger capacity school, and were told by the BOE that it wasn't needed because of Lacy's growth. By the nature of development, Lacy is a slow growth school, because housing units are not being increased. Of course older people (who had kids at lacy *duh*) are moving out and younger families with kids are moving in. It is a very natural cycle, otherwise the school would eventually have decreasing/zero attendance.
As for growth, what about existing Stough nodes that ARE being developed with additional housing and thus expected increased enrollment?
What about the fact that Stough already uses trailers for over 30% of its capacity? Where will the additional students go, but more trailers?
Every group at Lacy - administrators, PTA, etc - says the capacity for existing nodes plus the downtown node will exist in REALITY.
Stough parents' and other supporters' issues are not with lacy parents - they should be with the school board. For one, Brier Creek should have nothing to do with this - those kids had to go to school a long way from home until the area reached critical mass to support its own elementary school.
Stough parents/supporters should be wondering why the school board took measures which vastly increased the F&R/LI numbers since then. And why the BOE has allowed "stable nodes" like Meredith Woods, Olde Raleigh, and Ebenezer Church neighborhoods to wholesally opt out of going to Stough.
At the heart of it - that is MY personal argument. The BOE/Dulaney supports harming one school because they've screwed up another. The BOE should address their own issues at Stough FIRST - which include higher enrollment from existing, nearby nodes.
How exactly is Lacy a
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 16:20 — oldparentHow exactly is Lacy a "private school?" Lacy's LI is 25% and after adding the node from Conn Elem. that will go up to 30%. The LEP percentage is higher than other peer schools at 10%. Yep - sounds like the same percentages at Ravenscroft and St. David's to me. I am also sure that all the other board members are part of a community not just Clark. All statistics and information that have been reported at two public hearings is accurate and not misrepresented - check the facts yourself! Lacy is not an overcrowded school - only if you consider, for example, 17 students in a 3rd grade classroom overcrowded. As for the new school - which isn't finished yet - parents were told by WCPSS that "based on Lacy's historical enrollment, WCPSS could not justify a larger school."
Quit bashing a school that you have probably never stepped foot in and know nothing about. It is a great school now b/c of the tremendous amount of time, energy and money that the parents have put into it - NOT WCPSS!!!
And no I am not a parent there - my kids were there when we had the horrible principal that ruined the school - Chuck Dulaney's wife!!
Wow, your Selective-Indignation is AMAZING!!
Tue, 01/20/2009 - 15:01 — R4EqualityOldparent, you have a bad case of selective indignation! Lets dissect your email. Lacy's current LI is 23.5% (see the data posted Friday Jan. 16 2009). "IF" Lacy gets the node from Conn, AND the seven planned nodes are removed (three would go to Stough, three to Root, and one to Hunter(this is the low income node Lacy currently has)), Lacy will net a total of approx 26 LI students. According to Wake County, that will put Lacy at 24% (give or take a couple based on how many students are in node at reassingment time). Dont know where you are getting your numbers! In any case, Lacy is still way under the district average for LI! BTW, Root's LI is 30.3 and Stough at 47%. Lacy has gotten a free pass on the LI distribution. WCPSS is trying to equalize the schools a bit more with this plan (it is not perfect) but it is a step in the right direction. I know you would prefer less "diversity", but Lacy is a public school and should start to share in the reassignments plans that have affected all the surrounding schools.
Lacy LEP is 10%, Root's is 6%, and Stough at 19%. As you can see, you are not the high end of the LEP distribution, but i bet you are right comparing to Ravenscroft- a private school!Lacy is below average on LEP. BTW, you comment on comparing LEP to "other peer" schools says a mouthful. Shouldn't all Wake County Elementary schools be "peers"? Or, are you saying some should be better than others? Shouldn't all Wake County students have access to the same, equal, quality education?
In terms of Ms. Clark, she was heavily supported by some very well connnected Lacy parents, and past parents. Lets hope she does the right thing, the fair thing, for ALL of Wake county students. I have faith- this is not Chicago.
Lacy is over-crowded by over 200 students! This is directly from the Wake County School system. Dont play games on particular class sizes. Yes, typical class sizes are ~20. However, Lacy has been given head-count for teachers to handle the overcrownding. (teacher allocation is based on the total number of students attending the school).
On how great a school Lacy is due to the "tremendous amount of time, energy and money that the parents have put into it...". First, WCPSS has put a LOT of money into renewing Lacy. However, the main point to be made here is the fact that as schools get "unhealthy" due to a higher than average LI % of students, the less energy, time and money flows from the parents to the schools. This was presented by Chuck Dulaney during the public meetings last year. A formal study was done that showed the effects. Therefore (i know you are a fan of the Dulaney's based on your comment), Wake County is trying to equalize the schools with every reassignment. Again, so all schools are peers.
Welcome to the public school system! All students in Wake County should have access to the same quality education regardless of what elementary, secondary, or high school they attend!
Way over
Fri, 01/16/2009 - 16:16 — SideburnsNot to mention, even with the proposed moves, Lacy will still be 233 students over capacity. Why no MYR?
The 39.3 percent figure is
Fri, 01/16/2009 - 11:43 — jenmanThe 39.3 percent figure is from the Stough page in the reassignment plan.
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The LI percentages in the plan are way off of the F&R percentages. I asked Chuck Dulaney about this and he said that only the High School LI numbers should be different from the F&R because they are estimating the HS numbers this year. BUT, elem school figures are off as well, sometimes by large amounts. Fox Road is off by 15-20 points and WWF is off by about 10 I think. I asked for an explanation but never got one.
Thursday night
Fri, 01/16/2009 - 08:53 — enoughWhat happened at the meeting last night? I did not see any coverage of it in the paper today.
That's because I wasn't at
Fri, 01/16/2009 - 11:01 — KeungHui (author)That's because I wasn't at the meeting. A reporter from the Eastern Wake News was there in case things got out of hand. I'll watch the video after it's posted online.
Video Error
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 20:33 — MNmomPlease note that they mis-posted the 2nd hour of that hearing. If you watch the first hour, you will only be getting half the story.
I watched the first hour.
Sun, 01/18/2009 - 21:58 — enoughI watched the first hour. What did I miss in the second hour?
Last Meeting, hour 2
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 00:02 — MNmomI am not sure of all of the speeches, but I do know that there were three Stough speakers.
Making a speech at a public hearing is not easy. Making a speech to a room full of people who are fighting against attending your school is many times more difficult. I am so impressed with the strength of these speakers.
I hope the message was heard on both counts.
why the double spending?
Fri, 01/16/2009 - 08:38 — ObserverNYI don't understand something. Whether you love or hate IB, it makes absolutely NO sense to phase IB out in one part of the district and re-establish it in another! Doesn't your BoE understand that the programme is authorized BY SCHOOL not by district and that every time Wake wants to open IB in a different school it has to resubmit Applications A & B, ($17,000) to IBO and train new teachers ($40-80,000) before a single class is taught? Meanwhile, Wake has wasted the hundreds of thousands already spent in schools like Broughton UNLESS the IB trained teachers and administrators are rotated to the new locations.
It's worse than reported ... but easy to solve.
Fri, 01/16/2009 - 00:39 — MNmomYou state that "The various moves at Stough would lower its LI percentage from 39.3 percent to 33.3 percent." However, the current F&R rate is actually around 49%. Maybe you were citing another statistic, but using this rate significantly understates the problem at Stough. Stough is just over two miles away from Lacy. These schools share a base of students with a very similar demographic and they should resemble each other. They don't - not because Stough is bad or Lacy is amazing - simply because Stough is under populated and was not backfilled with a healthy and consistent base of students. Instead of sticking to the plan in 2006 to move students from Stough to Brier Creek, then students from Lacy to Stough to fill the empty seats ... Stough was left with empty seats because of heavy lobbying by these very same nodes. Prior to the situation in 2006, Stough and Lacy were similar in every way. In fact, Stough’s test scores were better than Lacy’s for many of the years prior to 2006. These were very comparable schools. What is really frustrating about all of this debate is that it is not just about Stough’s F&R rate as much as it is about two schools sharing a strong and stable base, to make local schools similar. Once this shift is made, the two schools will very closely resemble each other and, in a very short time, Stough will once again be a School of Excellence. Most important, these transitioning families will not suffer; they will be part of an amazing school that is very happy to have them.
The 39.3 percent figure is
Fri, 01/16/2009 - 11:00 — KeungHui (author)The 39.3 percent figure is from the Stough page in the reassignment plan.
LI figures are not F&R
Fri, 01/16/2009 - 17:31 — EqualtreatmentHere's a link to the "NEW" and updated school demographic figures. Stough's F&R% is 46.4%. Lacy is more than 20 points less.
http://www.wcpss.net/demographics/
I wish I could believe that
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 17:04 — AngelaWI wish I could believe that these publilc meetings will make a difference but when you see docs on WCPSS website already that tell the story....
The Board of Education made the following decisions
regarding school calendars and magnet changes:
1. To convert Leesville Middle to a multi‐track yearround
calendar beginning in 2009‐10.
2. To phase‐out the magnet program at Daniels Middle
over the next two years.
3. To change the calendar at Baucom Elementary to
traditional, beginning in 2009‐10.
4. To approve transfer requests for families who were
application students at Turner Creek Elementary, then
assigned to Baucom when it became a year‐round
school, who request a transfer to return to Turner
Creek for 2009‐10.
5. To change the calendar at Green Hope Elementary to
traditional beginning the same year that Alston Ridge
Elementary opens (currently scheduled to open in
2010‐11).
6. To establish an International Baccalaureate Primary
Years Programme Magnet School at Smith
Elementary.
7. To establish an Engineering Magnet School Program at
Brentwood Elementary.
8. To phase out the International Baccalaureate (IB)
Middle Years and Diploma Programmes at Broughton
High School over the next five years.
9 To implement the IB Middle M. Vouk 11-4-2008
9. Years and Diploma
Programmes at Millbrook High School.
10. To change the calendar at Knightdale Elementary to
traditional, beginning in 2009‐10 ,pending BOE
adoption of the staff proposed 2009‐11 Reassignment
Kevin is settling in
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 14:00 — g88ky07Kevin is settling in to his new role and with comments like his this week it's easy to see just that!
What Kevin REALLY wanted to say was,
we're glad to let the parents moan and groan. That's about all that they're going to do anyway, so what's the fuss. Most parents don't have the desire, backbone or knowledge to REALLY take us/this on. Don't worry, only 1 more _itch session then WE can get back to fine-tuning the map of Educational/Racial/Busing Utopia! Oh those busing routes, they really take up a lot of my time. Once we get them all sorted out we should be able to get back to worrying about the next bond and with the few people who will get out of being reassigned THEY will fight our battle to convince the rest of the lemming parents why the next bond will be so important and why we deserve all the money. Why if they don't get it passed for us we'll have to reconsider the reassignments again for them! Now can I get back to the _itch session??
Stough needs the Lacy nodes
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 12:27 — EqualtreatmentStough will NOT have a reasonable F&R percentage (comparable to Lacy and other nearby schools) if the Lacy nodes stay at Lacy. Stough used to have test scores that rivaled or even exceed Lacy’s just a few years ago. Now they could not be more different.
Stough’s problems are tied to the opening of Brier Creek ES three years ago. Some 200 higher income students were taken from Stough and only 15 new students added. The failure to backfill Stough with demographically comparable nodes at that time caused Stough’s F&R% to rise 10% in one year. It has gone up almost another 10% in the two following years, in part due to naming Stough the traditional calendar alternative for Leesville ES.
Why the lack of backfill three years ago? Two of the three Lacy nodes currently proposed for transfer to Stough (114, 117) were supposed to transfer then. They lobbied and were removed from the plan. Nobody replaced them.
The Lacy folks are arguing now that their newly renovated school can handle all of their current population although district statistics don’t appear to support this. These parents also cite a 20-year base growth rate of .26% in support of the argument that their base will not grow much in the future.
There has been tremendous growth in the Lacy base in the last few years and it will only continue as those neighborhoods continue to turn over from the elderly to new families. One example: the number of elementary students in node 114 increased 227% in the past three years. The growth rate for node 117 is 60%.
The Board must correct the problems created by earlier reassignment plans and reestablish a strong and healthy base of students at Stough. This can only happen with the inclusion of new nodes into Stough’s base. Twice in the past three years the Office of Growth Management has identified these nodes as the most logical to move to Stough. These nodes are geographically contiguous with current Stough's base area.
The fact that one of these nodes is home to a board member complicates the matter. If the board is going to ask tens of thousands of families to move annually, NO neighborhood should be off limits. In this case, the board should go out of its way to demonstrate this by not removing these nodes from the plan.
A friend of mine moved to
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 16:48 — NWRaleighMom..
Private meeting???
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 11:54 — new876How does one go about getting a private meeting? I noticed in the write-up that the Lacy parents have had private meetings. I have been trying to meet with my board member but have not been able to schedule time. It seems like some groups have access when others don't.
Typical
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 12:15 — SideburnsAnother example of how it's all about who you know. Hope Carmichael works hard to keep the reassignments out of her backyard (Lacy). She got Lacy off the MYR list and then went around the county and spoke in support of the bond. She spoke out against keeping the magnet program at Broughton as well. I'm sure she's involved in these private meetings.
Are the Lacy parents against
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 11:31 — enoughAre the Lacy parents against the move to Root too or just the move to Stough?
They're against both.
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 11:49 — KeungHui (author)They're against both.
I'm sure you could ask to
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 11:09 — jenmanI'm sure you could ask to meet with your board member to discuss your concerns, too. But I do know that some of the Lacy parents are very well connected which is an advantage for them.
How come Lacy parents get to
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 10:57 — vsheehanHow come Lacy parents get to have private meetings with the BOE ? Do other groups have private meetings with the BOE?
Courage
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 10:53 — SDR256As we've commented before, it takes a lot of information and courage to stand up before the school board, even for educated self confident professionals. One engineer I know has tried several times to do it and has chickened out. It is intimidating. So, if you're worried about your kids who may be in trouble already or your illegal status, or just trying to get food in the house this might be more than a person could handle. Many may not know about it, as Ms Payton opined. Many may just feel already overwhelmed by the 'system'. If you don't have a neighborhood group speaking out, it can be terrifying for all but the very few special individuals who are just born with a steel backbone. I don't think you can measure outrage by the number of people signed up for these events. Even the experienced people now claim that they have in the past been a big waste of time - the school board does exactly as it pleases anyway. We need to - and will - find other ways of changing this.
19 Speakers???
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 10:47 — supportwcpssWhere is the outrage? Where are the thousands of disgruntled parents?? 19 people?
No Need To Bring A Crowd
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 16:40 — Lisa_BI will speak for the Leesville 1 Campus 1 Calendar group when I say that we chose not to rally the troops for these public hearings. Our group is 1200 strong, and the School Board already knows that we are a HUGE group that does not want year-round. We only brought 3 speakers and came just to encourage them to STUDY THE FACTS.
(I did think that the Millbrook folks and Wood Valley group have very valid concerns and their signs hopefully made some impact)
The School Board has said that they don't want 20 speakers getting up saying the same thing, so as long as 1 person gets your message across, you just need to hope that they really will make decisions based on FACTS since we've been told over and over again that decisions won't be made based on what people "want". FINALLY, after 3+ years of fighting the MYR mess we have the facts on our side....we can only hope they take the time to closely study these facts.
I do feel the tide turning, and while we all know that small node moves will be made, it remains to be seen whether they will give other requests consideration.
Expect the unexpected!!
If I remember correctly the BoE or WCPSS or both
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 14:01 — Falchave stated that in the interest of time, they do not want to hear the same thing from multiple speakers. Therefore, as others have said many groups select a few representatives to present their case in a summarized manner.
Many, based on history, feel that the hearings are a waste of time. How many people made online comments and spoke last year and how few were pulled out the plan?
I have heard many parents say (in person - not on this or any blog) "I'm so glad my kids are done with WCPSS" or "I can't wait until my kids are done with WCPSS" or "I'm tired of/don't want to waste my time beating my head against the WCPSS wall". Where are all the parents here who say what my mom says "I'm so glad my child is/was educated by that school system". Where are the parents that say that here? Have I just not met them yet?
Pie Anyone?
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 12:13 — g88ky07If we all had shown up Rosa wouldn't have made it home in time for The Biggest Loser and some pie!
And you may have had to take more meds.
Maybe they are organized
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 12:00 — JanisTangoMaybe they are organized like us. We had 5 speakers that represented 500 people in our neighborhood. Don't equate number of speakers to disgruntled parents.
What's the point?
Thu, 01/15/2009 - 11:25 — Voice_of_Reason_Does the BoE(eR) really listen anyway? The press is covering them, that's the best we can realistically expect. Kevin Hill said it all,.... we are talking about high schools, parents will vent (not quite a quote, but pretty much what he said). Courts and voter education are the only way to stop the insanity.