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The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system: the reassignment of thousands of students, the conversion of traditional-calendar schools to a year-round schedule, the district's response to growth and the school construction program.

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

Not backing a diversity study

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The school board shot down a proposal today to have staff research whether students are benefitting from the diversity policy.

School board members Ron Margiotta and Horace Tart argued for having the Evaluation and Research Department track the performance of students who are assigned for diversity reasons. They said it would help show whether trying to balance the percentage of low-income students at schools is succeeding.

But other board members at today's student achievement committee meeting disagreed. Some said a study wasn't needed while others said it wouldn't be possible to do a valid study.

As noted previously, Wake has only done one study that actually tracked students who are reassigned for diversity reasons. But the authors of that 2004 study concluded that too few students were in the sample size to develop valid conclusions.

Instead, over the years Wake has pointed to research showing that high-poverty schools don't do as well academically. Most recently, school leaders have pointed to how high-poverty schools in Charlotte are doing much worse since the district abandoned diversity.

The initial discussion today was whether an updated study is needed.

The issue, according to David Holdzkom, assistant superintendent for evaluation and research, is that you can't statistically show how a student would have done if he wasn't reassigned.

Holdzkom said you can try to see how that reassigned student would do compared to similar students at his old school.

But Lori Millberg, chairwoman of the student achievement committee, said there are so many variables trying to compare the students that it wouldn't be "statistically valid." Furthermore, she said she knows that Wake's policy works.

"I've been at these [high poverty] schools," said Millberg, whose children have attended schools in Eastern Wake. "The stress on the teachers, the stress on the schools. I don't need any further study to see if our diversity policy is working."

Board member Beverley Clark said they can't just think about how the diversity policy impacts individual students. She argued it can't be ignored how hard it is to get teachers to work at high-poverty schools.

"As a school board, we have to be worried about the entire school system, the turnover of teachers and the overall working conditions," Clark said.

After much discussion, no one made a formal motion for a districtwide study.

But Tart asked Holdzkom if he could see how the students who were recently reassigned out of North Garner Middle School to West Lake Middle School are doing. They would be compared with similar students at North Garner.

"We have to start somewhere," Tart said.

Because Tart isn't a member of the committee, he couldn't formally make the request. It was left up to Margiotta, vice chairman of the committee, to make the motion.

But the motion died when none of the other committee members seconded the request. In addition to Millberg, committee members Eleanor Goettee and Anne McLaurin said they didn't feel the need for the study.

Millberg argued that it would be hard to control for how the students at North Garner should be benefitting from efforts to reduce the school's F&R percentage.

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umm how about the children

Kudos to Ron and Horace...

The bottom line of the study they recommended is that this study would show whether the children were benefiting from being bussed to different schools.

That is the bottom line for me. What is best for each child? The study should also cover social and psychological impacts of being away from their families and home communities...and whether this increases the possibility of joining or forming gangs.

I don't care about the politics, it just boils down to helping our children...the future leaders of the world we are leaving behind.

Surely Ron and Horace can continue requesting that this study be done..at every meeting.

"I don't care about the

"I don't care about the politics, it just boils down to helping our children...the future leaders of the world we are leaving behind."

I think the measurement is "by school" each "school" needs to make the grade not each child which is probably the reason for distributing out the F&Rs so every "school" can pass not every student.

ummm

Dadof1:  I am aware that the current measurement is by school.  That is important information no doubt.  Also I agree that each school must be successful in its own right.  It is also essential that WCPSS quit playing games and start competing nationally on an academic level. 

However if WCPSS bases policies strongly on diversity and says that their diversity policy helps minorities and the poor, then it should.  In my heart and soul it is crucial that the disenfranchised get every opportunity to succeed.  However there is no sense in using policies that do not work.  How do you measure success?

 

If you are going to bus 3 children from node 464.3 with a 95% F&R and 12 children from node 394.5 with a 98% F&R 45 minutes away past two Title I magnet schools where they can get extra Title I and magnet funding to Leesville Elementary, I think it is important to know if they are going to benefit academically and spiritually from such a move.

 

These children will be spending 1.5 hours on the bus a day, 7.5 a week, 270 hours a year (over 10 days),  away from their family and peers, their community and village. 

 

Honestly for the cost of a child's mind and psyche it should be worth all the effort.

 

 

Read Carefully

ncdad1,

You need to read carefully and try and understand. 

Its not about whether children "pass" or the schools "pass" or not.  Its about whether or not the schools are getting better.  The schools currently are not good, no matter what the WCPSS propaganda machine says.  Their measure is not valid and will not be until they compare themselves on a national level.  One of my major problems with bussing the F&R populations around is that it allows the district to avoid addressing the real problems in the schools.  Sure, you can take 20% of the kids from a school where 100% "pass" and move them to a switch them out kids at a school where only 60% pass and voila, 80% at both schools now pass!  But you have accomplished absolutely nothing!  Progress would be to have both schools pass at 100% after ther switch.  That has clearly not been the case with diversity busing and a study would show that.  NOT BUSSING would require WCPSS to really address the issues with ALL the schools and not just "ship the issues around the county".  That is what people on this blog want.  An accurate assessment of our schools performance, accountability for the decisions of the school board and expenditure of public funds.  We want ALL the schools to improve for ALL of the students.  That can only start by first admitting that the problem is with the system and schools themselves, not the children in the schools. 

The standards to pass in NC are so low, the 100% pass rate is almost worthless.  We need to expect more from our schools, more from our teachers and way more from WCPSS.  To accept the mediocrity you are advocating is unacceptable.

"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results." Winston Churchill"Not doing more than the average is what keeps the average down." Author: William M. Winans 

"Mediocrity requires aloofness to preserve its dignity."
Author:
Charles G. Dawes

 

 "Only the mediocre are always at their best." Author: Jean Giraudoux  

"Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way."

Blaise Pascal

 

   “It is a wretched taste to be gratified with mediocrity when the excellent lies before us”  Isaac Disraeli  "Mediocrity is excellent to the eyes of mediocre people”  Joseph Joubert "Show me someone content with mediocrity and I'll show you someone destined for failure."Johnetta Cole

 

What you want is not really

What you want is not really important.  I don’t mean that personally, it is just what you as an individual want pales in comparison to how the “system” is rewarded.  

 

I think their goal now is getting every “school” to pass / improve.  Every school passing / improving is how they get paid / rewarded.  I think until you understand that you will continue to be frustrated by why the best and most logical route is not being taken.

 

Having half your schools at 60% and half at 100% is a failure for them as they are measured today.   Mixing them all together gets you an 80% which is deemed a success.   That is the way I understand the game is played. 

 

All your ideas on how it could be done differently are interesting but I think irrelevant to the “system” as it is measured.  The “system” could try all kinds of intervention, extra funding, smaller class size which may not produce an 80% school.  Immediate mixing makes the numbers work and viola job is done.

Believe me, I know that this

Believe me, I know that this is exactly how the "system" is rewarded and why the system responds this way.  The BOE, however, is not "rewarded" financially in either case.  What I would like to see in a BOE is people who do the "right" thing regards of these types of pressures.  What we have now is a group of people who are just doing what makes THEM look good, not what is good for the kids and then lies about why they do it that way.  That is why they all (except Ron) must go.  Ron is the ONLY BoE member standing up for the right, albeit difficult, decisions.  The others are self-serving weak individuals and exactly the wrong kind of people we need on the BoE.  That is the point.

"The BOE, however, is not

"The BOE, however, is not "rewarded" financially in either case."

I think for governmental agencies, "success" sometimes is avoiding disasters like de-certification, riots, school shootings, etc.

"What I would like to see in a BOE is people who do the "right" thing regards of these types of pressures."

I think each member thinks they are doing the right thing by making everyone a good solid 80%.  Government tend toward the average.

"That is why they all (except Ron) must go.  Ron is the ONLY BoE member standing up for the right, albeit difficult, decisions."

I think that each is representing their constitutes.  Ron has a fast growing area of non-F&R.  Other members have old facilities with lots of F&Rs.  It seems like members ought to have around 13k students each so Ron with 21k and Goettee with 8k should swap some schools so the both have equivalent numbers.  I think as Joe as mentioned that few good people want the BOE job because you get all blame, little credit and little commuity support only from the few neighborhoods they  are trying to get a school for.

IT Warning - Do not respond -

Did the math confuse you? 

You are exactly as I pictured you. 

Did the math confuse you?  I can go through averaging 60 and 100 for you slowly if you need?  You are not one of the F&R students are you?

Living lala land ,not knowing how the game is played or how people are rewarded won't get you anywhere.  Maybe you just want to bitch and moan?

Here's a bone

Hey you need more thoughs, love mediocracy? GO HERE They like your sort.


 

With all the time and money

With all the time and money and effort and reassignment- considering the fact that diversity is a major part of their policy- it makes no sense whatsoever to me that they would choose not to study its effectiveness.

I read the conclusions of the first study that they did. Am I the only one who noticed that they don't even pretend to study how their diversity policies affect non F&R students?

THEY DON'T WANT TO ASK THE QUESTION B/C THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR THE ANSWER.

Instead of shuffling the problems around, they should try to address them. PARENTS who take no responsibility whatsoever for their childrens' education are the problem.

I don't care if we have to pay staff to play parents for these kids, but shuffling them to other schools does not help them.

www.ncedforum.org

Go to www.ncedforum.org and check out the November newsletter.  There is a great article about Academic Achievement and results in Wake County.  Also, under Documents & Links, there is a presentation titled "Going Beyond Policy 6200" that explains why Policy 6200 is not achieving its goals.

I can not believe that

I can not believe that Milberg or any member of the board would have the gall to say there are too many variables to consider for the study to be valid? Who are they kidding? They can bring in a group to do a curriculum audit...which was n't needed. This has brought nothing but more meetings and more paperwork, and more headaches to the teachers. Once again, there's a lot of variables to consider if u were going to audit the curriculum. HOWEVER the board feels that it would be impossible to conduct a sound eval. of the ucrrent bussing, etc.
They just make me sick, they don't want to face their wrong doings. The example of a good leader is to admit to his/her own mistakes....well, we will not see this from the members today, well except Ron.
The public/parents and leaders should demand that this is done. Folks, research and development can study and create all kinds of audits, etc......they can do the same thing for the bussing issue and it's effectiveness..or the lack of it.

OH...one more thing, they are worried about retaining teachers????? Give me a break! They could give a rats...behind...about what needs to be done to retain teachers.

Title I schools can succeed

Last night I posted some information on my hometown district (under the Enloe in the News) thread. My hometown district has all Title I schools and all the ES and MS meet AYP. ncdad1 and VoR had some questions. ncdad1 - you asked about "good" vs. "bad" sections of the county. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "good" vs. "bad" based on your example of "white" and "black" schools. If you are asking if there are “white” and “black” sections of the county or schools, the answer is no. My home county is 83% "white" and 8% “black”. If you are asking if there are “good” and “bad” sections or schools based on socioeconomic status, the answer is basically no. The ES with the lowest F&R rate is at 40% and the “lowest income” ES school is 81% F&R. They both meet AYP and both received a “B” on their school report card. All students attend the same MS and in my day HS (the alternative HS did not exist then). There are some nicer sections, some less nice sections in the county, but they are pockets here and there vs. large areas. I also looked at another town that was in our athletic conference that is 55% “white” and 33% “black”. The district F&R rate is 75%. All the kids attend the same schools and both ES and the MS meet AYP. Again high F&R does not have to equal failed school. VofR – you asked about ES class size. They average from 18-20 (MS is 19, HS is 20). I think you may be correct about ESL/LEP. My hometown does have a higher than average Muslim population (originally largely from Yeoman), but I think most of the influx was 10-20 years ago. As for the AG, I understand your daughter’s situation. The ES I attended (which BTW was probably around 60-70% F&R) taught based on two main concepts 1) respect others right to learn and 2) individual paced learning. The teacher would introduce concepts to the whole class for 10-20 minutes and then we spent a lot of time working on those concepts at our own pace. This kept me from getting bored and gave opportunity for the teacher and classroom volunteers to give extra help to those that needed it. When I got to sixth grade the district went from a K-6, Jr. High, HS model to a K-5, MS, HS model to consolidate schools due to shrinking population and they weren’t quite prepared for the first sixth grade MS class. So, rather than dividing by learning aptitude, they divided us at random. Most classes were desks in rows, lecture format all hour, multiple repetitions to the whole class for those who needed it – very different from my ES experience. I was bored and miserable. From 7th grade on, there were advanced classes at least in some subjects. I had a more positive experience in my higher F&R ES than my sixth grade MS class, with lower F&R, simply due to the structure of the classroom and teaching method. Needless to say, I’m amazed at the amount of time, energy, focus and money Wake County spends on this concept of having to get F&R% below 40%, when there are school systems out there where most, if not all the schools, have higher than 40% F&R and those schools are not failing. What would WCPSS do if, like in my home town, more than 40% of the population qualified for F&R – just throw their hands up because they think high F&R schools can’t succeed?

Did they have extra staff

Did they have extra staff to help the lower end kids to learn the consepts?  How active were the PTAs. Did the schools have after school clubs like chess and GEO Bee club?  What was the behavior of the kis at school? 

Answers

Thanks for your interest. I can't speak for what they are currently doing, but in my day:

No extra paid staff, some volunteer help (my mom voluntereed 3x per week for 2-3 hours/day). I'm not sure exactly how active the PTA was overall, but they were at least somewhat active, including F&R parents. From what I remember, the ES afterschool stuff was Brownies and football and the MS was largely athletic related. In HS there was a chess club, FFA, Youth in Government (I think I recently read that the MS group won an award for YIG, so they must do that in MS now too), Model UN, Pep Club, school plays, athletics (big deal for community). No significant behavior issues in ES. From what I remember, teacher's gave little slack and if you were talking or something, they would point out that you were "not respecting your classmates' right to learn". Of course in those days teachers had more latitude - when kids did not follow directions in gym class, the teacher gave them a noogie (sp?). Maybe it was because the Principal and Asst. Principal were Nuns. Yes, it was a public school and no they did not teach anything religious, except maybe the golden rule. That was my district's solution to an ES population bubble, it leased the parochial school and kept most of the staff after the parochial school decided to close. When the bubble passed, they just stop leasing. In MS, a few kids with behavior issues, but they quickly 'disappeared' to the principal's office and eventually from the school (I think to "reform" school), but no significant problems, unless you consider detention for chewing gum a behavior issue. Also, no issues in HS, certainly not the kind of issues that seem to be going on around here lately.

Who is running this Asylum?

Why in the world would they want to study their own policy..that would be a loss of power, money and house of cards would most definitely crumble!

Reguarding Busing

I may have missed a posting or two, as there are quite a lot!!
But I did read enough to see that people are concerned about the #'s being bussed that are low income. Well, take a look at the #'s that are being bussed into the magnet schools from the suburbs. They are huge!!
Last year I looked at the numbers of buses coming to my children's traditional ES. 10. Then I looked at the # of buses going to Hunter elementary school. 40.
The majority being bussed were not to remove F&R families, though this certainly happens and added to our 10, but to provide transportation to the few in each node that won the "lottery" and made it to the magnet program.
The wasteful busing is coming from mostly empty buses traveling all over the county to take a handful of students into the magnet program.
I know that voiceforequality.com has addressed this issue, but it seems lost in the sauce.
There should be a greater spread of magnet schools countywide if we are going to continue with the magnet program in our county. How can we meet the requirements of the magnet program if we are neglecting the schools that have over the 40% desired F&R population, due in part to our diversity goals, throughout the entire county?

"There should be a greater

"There should be a greater spread of magnet schools countywide if we are going to continue with the magnet program in our county."

I don't think the magnet program is about spreading the wealth but about getting under utilized building filled.  Downtown was the place to be in the 70's and Cary was a cow pasture.  Tax payers invested in building school.  People moved to Cary.  What to do with those empty buildings which have a 50-70 year life?  Fill them, raze them?  They use the magnet program to entice some folk to travel longer distances to fill them up.

They are just following a script

The answer is known about student achievement, that's why they will not do the study. If you listen to WCPSS they say it is for healthy schools. Let me tell you healthy Title I schools = $$$$; unhealthy Title I schools = - $$$ (loss); that is it pure and simple. Economic Diversity Busing means they don't have to try to hard to fix the problem at Title I schools if the transfer LOW PERFORMING NODES out of Title I schools. Ask they why they track academic performance BY NODE, it's on their slides in their planning. They also keep changing the variables so if anybody tries to do a scientific analysis on their own, those variable can be pointed to as the problem. Smoke & Mirrors. And the federal spotlight never hits them...Yet. I believe we are starting to see the cards fall because when they now say they will deny voluntary busing as mandated by NCLB, they will have to explain (I don't think they will be able satisfactorily since they created the problem).

ha ha ha ha...

that's laughable that anyone would think a study like that would EVER have a chance with this bunch.

as said earlier, accountability will NEVER be at hand in Wake County. The dumb voters have seen to that. Now we just all pile into "meetings" that have no real meaning or hope of changing anything with a bunch that made their minds up along ago for 95+% of us!

The State Supreme Court will get a say in a matter of hours and I for one can't WAIT to see Chuck squirm if he loses this one! If he doesn't lose, current reassignment will seem like track out time compared to what will follow!

diversity study, ha aha aha ah aha aha aha aha aha aha aha ahaaaa aha aahhha aaahhhaaaa a hhahahahahaha hh aaaaaaa.................

1976

I noticed that diversity was not popular in 1976 either.

WCPS History

The current school system is the result of a 1976 merger between the previous (historically largely white) Wake County school system and the former (historically largely minority) Raleigh City schools. The merger was proposed initially by business leaders in the early 1970s out of concerns that continued "white flight" from Raleigh's inner-city schools would negatively impact the county's overall economy. Political and educational leaders also hoped that merging the two systems would ease court-mandated desegregation. The proposal proved initially unpopular with residents, however, who rejected it by a 3-1 margin in a non-binding referendum in 1973. School and business leaders instead went directly to the North Carolina General Assembly (state legislature) to achieve the merger.[5]

Thanks for posting that.

I'll add "make the WCPSS wikipedia page more balanced" to my to-do list.

The reasoning behind the original desegregation is a non-sequitor. Of course you can achieve "diversity" by busing.  The question is whether doing so is a good thing.  Just because *somebody* thinks it's a good thing (you today; some "business leaders" in the '70s) doesn't make it so.

 

I've read that before too

32 years is a long time and the laws that we have now were not in place to protect those inner city schools. But did it achieve success? Look at the inner city and look outside. Maybe, just maybe, Raleigh business leaders were afraid that outlying towns would have better schools and draw business away? Look at who supported it.

A Walk Down Memory Lane

LOL, that was 32 years ago.  You just don't get it... Wake County parents are not upset about F&R kids attending local schools, they are upset because their own kids are being thrown out of their local school and shipped down the road.  And this is all done to create the illusion of equity and improved F&R performance.  The School Board has no data which suggests 6200 is accomplishing anything, and neither do you.

 

J, I doubted they had any

J, I doubted they had any data that showed merging the two school systems  would accomplish anything either.  So, what do you think about their hunch now 32 years later?  Just like today politician and business leaders forced something the public did not want.

Also, why should parents that move to an over crowded school be surprised when they shipped down the road?  I agree if you want to blame the school for better long range planning but they just don't seem to be able to fund and assemble a school as fast as builders can put up a house.

So - are you saying that

So - are you saying that all this hub-bub over reassignment is about overcrowding? And if taxpayers just forked over some more cash to build more schools, we could avoid reassignments and mandatory year-round?

 

I hope that is what is is

I hope that is what is is all about since folks have strenuously told me it had nothing to do with race or income.  I assume that if tax payers offered an open check book and told them to build as fast as the could there would be little over crowding. 

I think the problems is too many people trying to get in too few schools.  There are 500 too many kids in Pather Creek meeting in the halls getting a great education while Cary HS is 500 under capacity but the PC folk keep holding on to their "neighborhood" school.  I say stick another 500 kids in PC and let them meet in the bathroom if they want to be there that bad.

ncdad1 - Look at Wakefield High's overcrowding

Overcrowding happens in affluent areas also. And look at schools with and without the modular units. Modular units tax school infrastructure; WC builds nice schools with lots of planning and ruin them with modular units.

ncdad1 - Look at Wakefield High's overcrowding

Overcrowding happens in affluent areas also. And look at schools with and without the modular units. Modular units tax school infrastructure; WC builds nice schools with lots of planning and ruin them with modular units.

But, this is not just about

But, this is not just about overcrowding. This is not just about growth. Of course there would be little overcrowding if WCPSS was given an open checkbook but there would still be reassignment and there would still be MYR. Why do you think WCPSS got rid of the voluntary year-round program?

 BTW, Panther Creek is overcrowded because Chuck Dulaney and crew overfilled it. It has nothing to do with holding onto a "neighborhood" school. 

Yeah, stop using Panther

Yeah, stop using Panther Creek as an example, ncdad1.

PC is an example of Growth & Planning messing up.  How else do you explain going from 1,496 students in 2007-08 to 2,194 students in 2008-09?

Now hundreds of students are being needlessly reassigned... ugh.

"Voice" wants use facts and

"Voice" wants me to use facts and you don't want me to use facts ... so confusing

Or talk to one of the Cary

Or talk to one of the Cary families who had one of their children yanked out of Cary HS two years ago to fill Panther Creek, and now is having a second child yanked out of Panther Creek and sent back to.............................................yep, Cary High !!

That one is all Chuck.  

the problem is

"tax payers offered an open check book"

majority of tax-payers in Wake County DO NOT have children in WCPSS so they will NOT offer up an open check book. 

 

Paying for schools should

Paying for schools should have nothing to do with a person's choice to have children.   A lot of no-child people funded the school they attended long before them.  I fund many roads in NC I will never drive on.  We fund schools like we do roads, sewers, water sources, etc.  Schools are a public resource like parks you use to attract people and business which from all the best place awards and hyper growth may be working too well.

Yup.

Part of the problem is that there is no community around the schools -- in smaller communities, it's possible to take pride in the local high school, to go to the local football games, to want the schools to thrive and to be happy when your property values go up as a result.  Here, the school district appears to be just a bloated, faceless, bureacracy.  (An image that the district has earned.)  

One of the reasons I support breaking up the district.

preaching to the

preaching to the choir

years of underfunding (and mismanagement of funds) speaks to where WCPSS are today.  It is a fact that a majority of tax payers don't have children in WCPSS and don't want to pay higher taxes for schools. (is it right? nope, but it's true)

Thank you for dropping the

Thank you for dropping the "undesirables" reference.

Actually, money was a big consideration 32 years ago as well.  Raleigh schools were going broke, and part of the solution was integration with the county.  Same happened all over NC.  Believe there are only four municipal school districts left.

Do I blame WCPSS for poor planning?  Absolutely.

But money has nothing to do with F&R busing.  Policy 6200 does not yield one additional school seat for a child, it simply moves that seat (in general) a greater distrance from home.

I think any of the cities

I think any of the cities that did not change from a black core with white surban ring is in bad shape.  

I think newcomers like the fact that Wake County schools are pretty uniform and you don't have to move around from street to street jockeying to get your kids in certain schools like you have to do in other states.

All the public schools should be pretty equal if they are truly public and there should not be any reason to force yourself into one school over another school.  I agree 18 mile travel distance mentioned elsewhere is excessive but 6 or less miles should not be an issue for most people.

Assumptions

Black inner city, well what do cities do? If black property owners want to sell things might change. But lets say they did, what would happen. Well from two cities that I know of that tried, you will have a few residents that refuse to sell no matter what the price. Then you get the civil rights lawyers involved saying the developers are racially biased. Then you get more lawyers involved and say the area is historic and federal and state money needs to be inserted to fix up the area. Anyway, it is a free country last time I looked.

As far as WCPSS being a factor for people to move here. Yes it is, I for one got suckered in and I did my homework. WCPSS has a very powerful propaganda arm that works with business to promote what they want others to see. I'm not the only one that this has happened to. If I would have if known what I do now. But I do like the city, climate, and cental location.

Unfortunately, it is not

Unfortunately, it is not that simple.  Lemme tell you a story about a man named Joe....

Moved to Cary 16 years ago and bought a house near the YMCA.  At the time, the home was districted for Baucom.  Two redistrictings later, first young'n ready to go to school and find out we've been moved to an elementary school on the other side of town.  Six schools are closer.  Our little neighborhood  became one of the dreaded "Donut hole" nodes.  All neighborhoods around us were districted to Davis, but not us -- not even close.

The school our child was being sent to had EOG scores in the low 60's.  Davis was in the 90's, and within walking distance.

So we "jockeyed streets" and moved to a new home.  Since then, our node has been redistricted three times for elementary, three times for middle school and three times for high school.

This is Wake County schools.  They are not uniform, far from it, and any citizen who thinks that they can buy a home which is "safe" from being redistricted away from a nearby school is deluding themselves.

The root problem

Joe,

 

Did it ever occur to you that you are part of the problem?  I don’t mean that personally. Really, you spend your time and resources circling Davis Drive in search of the Holy Grail of nodes so you can get in to the school.

 

Back at HQ, the WCPS planners notice that one house has graduated all their kids and they have an open spot.  They go to fill it with some family in the next node only to find that when school opens you bought the “no kid” house and want in.  Repeat this hundreds of times as families circle Davis Drive moving from home to home to get in the school.  That is really disruptive to have such inequity in the local schools that people feel compelled to moving all the time to get an edge on everyone else.  Your idea of living in an RV or trailer moving around trying to get entry would be funny if it was not so sad.

 

BTW, your example of Davis Drive scoring 100? while your school was only a 60, well, I think a rule of thumb is %FR+ABC=100%.  So, Davis Drive with what 5% F&R plus 95% ABC = 100% while the school you were trying to escape is probably 40% F&R + 60 ABC = 100% in round numbers.   In theory, if every school was 20% F&R they would all by 80% ABC and there would be not reason to be constantly house hunting.

As long as I am doing

As long as I am doing whatever I can to ensure my children receive a quality education in a safe environment, I will NEVER consider myself part of the problem.

If you truly believe that all Wake County schools are equal, then you will never understand that.

I agree .. they are not

I agree .. they are not equal but given that they are a publicly funded resource they should be. 

No they shouldn't

Are all parks the same?

Are all libraries the same?

Are all public museums the same?

Are all playgrounds the same?

I could go on and on. All have equal access.

Isn't variety the spice of life. GIVE ME A BREAK!, You should move to North Korea, maybe you will achieve your dream.

Of course not they are not

Of course they are not all the same physically ….  But they do not have the the great disparity our schools have.  

 

Does the NCDOT use better asphalt in Cary than Apex?  Everyone gets the same mix.   You see that all the time in Cary where they are spreading out the libraries, play grounds and parks across the town for all citizens not just the ones that yell the loudest or pay the most taxes. 

Our schools are spread out

Our schools are spread out too. Nobody tells you that you have to live in a certain area. Some areas are older than others so the facilities may not be as good, that's progress. When they reach their useful life, some tear it down. [ I would like to add that Capitol Gain taxes are why a lot of old buildings were never removed & we are going to go that route again ] . If poor people can't move there legally, you would have a better argument.  I would like to move to some places that I can't afford it -- I accept that. If I wanted it bad enough, I'd work harder.

My kids may not go to the best college, so be it.

Roads are built to the standard for their use, the thickness, materials, and design has that in mind; they aren't all the same.

Libraries are definitely not equal, but you have access to all books in the system. I might add libraries is something we have right. My library is small and crowded at night, we yelled and now we are going to get a new regional one built in our development. And parks and playgrounds are part of city planning, and they are definitely not equal in any sense of the term, each offers something different; again nobody limits access.

Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker.

 

"The school our child was

"The school our child was being sent to had EOG scores in the low 60's.  Davis was in the 90's, and within walking distance. "

What is disturbing is that two schools so close by would have such vastly different scores.  Shouldn't they be all equivalent?  It is sad that like you everyone was "jockeying" to get into Davis which over filling it.  Seems like WCPS should have extracted all the teachers from Davis and moved them to the other school and let the parents tag behind.  Seriously, it seems like they should have extracted what ever they could from Davis an move it to the other school until you felt indifferent between them.

 

Well, duh.

In an ideal world, they would all be equivalent.  But, they're not.   Nobody has a recipe for a high-quality school.  If we did, then the whole thing would be easy -- just follow the recipe.

It's not possible to move "a little bit" of the quality from Davis to another school by, say, reassigning a few teachers.   A teacher may only be good because he already knows the kids at Davis Drive, or he may only be good because a more senior teacher is mentoring him, or he may only be good because he works really well with these other teachers, or . . .  Moving that teacher to a different school could easily be a disaster. 

Even worse is moving students because their parents are involved in the school.  The PTA parent who has poured his/her life into one school may have no connection with a new school and may not want to start all over.  Moving that family may just mean one fewer active parent.

That's why it's critical to leave good schools alone.  Sure, try to replicate them elsewhere, but don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.   Sure, it's not fair that one school has a great program, while others have lousy programs.  But, that's better than all of them having lousy programs. 

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