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North Carolina school boards taking sides over new online charter school

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Is the Wake County school board looking after its interests or being a bully by joining the lawsuit against the proposed online charter school?

As noted in today's article, the issue went 5-4 along party lines with the Democrats backing the N.C. School Boards Association's request that it take part in the litigation. The Republicans voted no, questioning the propriety of the decision.

"I think it’s anti-charter school and I don’t think we belong in it," said school board member Debra Goldman, the GOP nominee for state auditor.
Here's an intro into the subject.

After State Board of Education Chairman Bill Harrison said at the October meeting that they wouldn't for now be considering applications for online charter schools, North Carolina Learns started looking elsewhere. N.C. Learns is the local non-profit group that's applying for the charter for the North Carolina Virtual Academy.

N.C. Learns used a rarely employed section of state law to go to a local school district instead of the state board to get initial approval. Click here to read the N.C. Virtual Academy's charter application.

The school would be run by K12 Inc., a Virginia-based for-profit company that manages online schools in 29 states and the District of Columbia. The New York Times ran this critical piece on K12 in December, prompting the company to fire back here on its blog.

In January, the Cabarrus County school board agreed to give initial approval to the school in exchange for 4 percent of the revenue. Considering that the school is projecting $18.6 million in revenue in year one and $34.5 million a year four years after that, 4 percent is a nice amount for Cabarrus.

With the initial approval in hand, N.C. Learns submitted the application to the state board for final approval. The state board didn't act on the application before a March 15 deadline for making decisions on charters that would open this year.

N.C. Learns filed a lawsuit. On May 8, state Administrative Law Judge Beecher Gray ruled on the bench that the state board had given up its jurisdiction by not deciding on the application by March 15. Gray issued a charter to the school allowing it to open in August.

Click here for Gray's ruling.

The State Board of Education appealed the ruling. A hearing will be held June 25 in Wake County Superior Court.

The N.C. School Boards Association has filed a brief in support of the appeal. The group has also been soliciting school boards to join in the litigation. Click here for the list of 60 school districts that have passed resolutions. That represents a majority of the state's 115 districts.

When it came to Wake County's turn on Tuesday, the Republican school board members objected to discussing it in closed session. But school board chairman Kevin Hill said he was following the advice of board attorney Ann Majestic to discuss the issue first in closed session.

Following the closed session, the GOP board members were still fired up.

“I find it ethically appalling for a board to intervene in the action and governance of another board and to try to usurp the authority of another government agency or board, meaning the State Board of Education," Goldman said. "I don’t think that we belong in this. I don’t think we should be sticking ourselves into it.”

In an interview Wednesday, Harrison said they welcome school boards joining in support of the appeal.

Back to Tuesday, where Goldman also said it didn't pass "the smell test" that so many groups were using the same attorney, Tharrington Smith. She equated it to the smell of a three-month-old unwashed gym uniform.

Tharrington Smith is one of the firms representing the NCSBA in the appeal and also represents a number of the individual districts who are joining the litigation. But Leanne Winner of the NCSBA, said Tharrington Smith is not, as Goldman said after the meeting, also representing Cabarrus County schools.

Board member John Tedesco also spoke out against intervening. If Tedesco goes on to win the GOP nomination for state schools superintendents and then the general election in November, he'll be right in the midst of these cases working with the state board.
“This is completely inappropriate," Tedesco said of intervening. "This is a separate local LEA with a separate democratic process to elect their local community leaders to enter into contracts on their behalf. For us to go after them in litigation in this manner is bullying in a manner that is abrasive to allow their local representatives to serve their community, first.

Second of all, and point being made for anyone who thinks it’s about this particular issue as opposed to my view on charter schools, it was myself and other members of this board several years ago who also supported charter schools, lifting the cap on our charter schools in this state, prior to the General Assembly making those changes so my opinion has been consistent for years on this matter. I just think it’s inappropriate for us as a board to intervene and enter into a lawsuit against another school district at this time.“

Technically, the complainants in the case are N.C. Learns and the State Board of Education. Cabarrus isn't a named party.

GOP board member Chris Malone could impact future charter school rules if he wins his bid for a seat in the state House.

“There’s no laws broken here," Malone said. "Everyone is playing by the rules. I’ve got some questions about some of the method and about this institution that’s running the show here, but I don’t want to be getting involved in another county’s business for the same reasons that Mr. Tedesco pointed out.”

Malone said he agrees with Goldman that this "smells."

“We shouldn’t be getting involved in another body’s business whether or not it be that school system, that school board, Cabarrus County, or whether or not it be the North Carolina School Board," Malone said. "I’ve been this way on everything having to do with resolutions and things like that, involving ourselves in other issues as well.

So it’s not necessarily having anything to do with charter schools, which of course I support as well. It has more to do about the principle of the matter and I couldn’t wholeheartedly agree more with my compatriots on this.”

GOP school board member Deborah Prickett is in the situation of working for the state Department of Public Instruction, which is administered by the state board and the state schools superintendent.

“I question why this was placed on our agenda because it looks and feels highly political," Prickett said. "I support the state board and I have the utmost respect for our state board and don’t think we should get involved with their business. I don’t think we should get involved with any sort of a local school board business.

I absolutely agree we do have a place in dealing with students in Wake County, but this going way, way out of our challenges and way out of our commitments to Wake County. I do want to reinforce the fact that I support the state board and I really do have the utmost respect for them and know that they’re working very hard to provide a quality education in the area of the virtual schools for our students in North Carolina."

For the Democrats, only board member Susan Evans spoke out in open session.

“I do think it’s appropriate for us to get involved in this situation," Evans said. "It is a Cabarrus County issue, but it affects our students and affects our funding for our school system because once students from Wake County begin to participate in this virtual school, it would have an impact on our funding.

I also have serious issues with the process and I believe that this charter school obtained their approval through an improper process that usurped the proper channels, and because of that I think it’s appropriate for us to get involved.”

Improper is strong as it is allowed under state law to go through a local school district for approval. It's just rare.

According to state education officials, only two charter schools, dating back to the infancy of the program in 1997, are believed to have gone through a local district for initial approval. One of those schools was Exploris Middle School. But both went on to also get state board approval too.

Winner said the N.C. Virtual Academy could become the only charter school to open without the approval of the state board. That's why the state Office of Charter Schools recently informed Cabarrus that the school district would be responsible for overseeing the school if it opens.

Both Winner, the director of governmental affairs for NCSBA, and Harrison said it's in the interests of local school districts like Wake to be involved in the lawsuit.

"The charter school will affect not just the Cabarrus school system," Winner said. "This could affect the Wake County school system."


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Florida Virtual School is an

Florida Virtual School is an accredited, (SACS) public, online e-learning school serving students in grades K-12 all over the world...see flvs.net.  Seems we may not need to be reassigned ever again.  Won't need to get up early to catch the bus or do carpool either. 

After 15 years of teaching I

After 15 years of teaching I am seeing that as long as teachers continue to allow the powers that be do as they wish nothing will change.  Teachers cannot say anything because they will loose their job....they are insubordinate if they do.....and this allows admin people like the one at EWA (Zebulon) to do as he wished until he finally gets caught.  Admin people enjoy the highest possible elitism.  No one will do anything.  Literally, they can just NOT show up for work and the regional supers do nothing.  They can ignore molestations by student on student and no one says anything even when the regional supers are notified.  It has been routine that students record and post things.....can you imagine what would happen if a teacher did this.....not giving a care in the world for their job?  Mind you politically it is much better if you deliver "small teasers" here and there and continue to do so over a long period of time which keeps those powers on the ropes.  I wonder how people would feel if they heard a Wake County Middle School Principal say to a teacher......"How many of these kids do you really think are going to go to college?"

Just an Observation

School systems acorss the state use online training for teachers to do their course/CEUs.  Students across the state utilize online assistance for homework.  Many teachers, administrators and superintendents have eanred their degreees from place such as Phoenix.  Even one of the most expensive investments for NC Teachers, NBPTS, might as well be "online" because the assesors NEVER know who they are grading/assessing.  At my age I lean more toward the "face time" but these are just some observations.

All of that is very

All of that is very different from having a first grader stare at a computer for all of their learning.

Interesting that thise are

Interesting that thise are the same words many used when "online education" first started.  My son was fluent in "computer" at 4.  He loved "The Magic School Bus" computer programs ands loved them.  He graduated with homors recently from HS and went on the college.

Don't you know there is only

Don't you know there is only one way to educate our children... sitting behind a desk in a public school with a teacher in front of the class dispensing wisdom?

I agree......although there

I agree......although there are some cases where online classes may work....or computer education..........being a teacher myself I can only see that side.  I may be a bit jaded (as well as protecting my job)


If you're any good, there'll always be a job for you.  It'll just be different.  Consider the Kahn upside-down style -- the teacher is still vitally important, but is no longer lecturing an entire class on the same thing at the same time.  The promise of technology is to better leverage human endeavor, not get rid of it entirely.

Students have made gains in

Students have made gains in scores over the years in the schools that I have been involved with as a teacher or a mentor, but it's the system itself that needs to change.  At this point most of my kids come to me in 8th grade unable to read.  That limits them severely in being able to do anything as an independent learner.  This year alone 48% of my students failed their reading EOG last year.

It does reek...

of politics. Why is the Cabarrus county school system getting a part of the profit? Is that the norm - charter schools paying money to the school system?

And it looks like Cabarrus is not even part of the litigation. So how does that become "interfering in another county's" dealings, as our (finance) illiterate state-auditor wannabe says?


Prickett: “I question why this was placed on our agenda because it looks and feels highly political,"


Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/wakeed/north-carolina-school-boards-taking-sides-over-new-online-charter-school#storylink=cpy 

she is struggling with....

the republican "party before anything else" rule. Before recusing herself because of a conflict of interest (IMO), she is politicizing this to score some party points.

NC Virtual Academy

The Board's decision to take a position on a school called the North Carolina Virtual Academy, targeted at a population throughout the state, is not an inappropriate interference in the affairs of another local board. As the charter school statute, the State Boad's involvement, Judge Gray's opinion, and the NCSBA's involvement all make clear, it is anything but. The issue here arises only because the applicant knew how to circumvent a state system that would have refused it, gave a (lawful) kickback to the Cabarrus Board for services that will be provided to students of others at the expense of those others (including WCPSS), and the SBOE failed to anticipate the strategy and address it despite ample opportunity to do so. Shame on them.

On the merits, there are several reasons to oppose schools like these. They tend to siphon more money from the system than they use to provide an education to their target audience. The surplus goes, in this case and in most cases involving virtual charters, to a for-profit company like the one behind this effort—K12. There might be nothing wrong with that, particularly if these systems produced results that equalled or exceeded the results produced by their public school counterparts for similar populations, but the available evidence suggests that they do not.

Some teachers and parents will tolerate (or simply fail to notice) any sort of mediocre result that allows them to teach their children in whatever mode they think best, but public money should be used, as best we can figure out how, for effective education, not just the education a parent wants (or, more accurately, believes she wants, despite the likely absence of the information necessary to make an informed decision).

There are some positive uses for high-quality virtual schools. Two that come to mind are (1) providing academic opportunities like AP classes to kids with lots of motivation and self-direction who otherwise couldn't access them and (2) providing academic opportunities of any kind to kids who would otherwise be out of school with no such opportunities due to illness, injury, or suspension, where the system has inadequate resources or willpower to provide them with direct education. Unfortunately, these are not moneymakers, so the K12's of the world aren't that likely to focus their efforts there.

I hope Judge Gray's opinion is overruled and they put a stop to this until the educational and financial effects can be assessed more carefully at the state level.

WOW!  How elitist can you

WOW!  How elitist can you be?

Some teachers and parents will tolerate (or simply fail to notice) any sort of mediocre result that allows them to teach their children in whatever mode they think best, but public money should be used, as best we can figure out how, for effective education, not just the education a parent wants (or, more accurately, believes she wants, despite the likely absence of the information necessary to make an informed decision).

So, the "state" is the only entity knowledgeable enough to decide whether or not a particular form of education is appropriate or not and worthy of spending taxpayer (not state) funds on?  Let's be clear, the state does not earn money, they simply spend taxpayer money. The state works for us, not vice versa.  If there is sufficient demand for a form of education from the tax payers, why should the state stand in the way of parent’s choice of that form over the state’s form of delivery?

So when the tax payers believe the current state delivered form of education is not effective, don’t complain when we say NO MAS to the funding!  The reason these alternatives are popping up is DIRECTLY DUE to the fact that the state’s form of education SUCKS!  Therefore, they are in no position to decide for me or any other parent what is the best choice for our children.

Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/wakeed/north-carolina-school-boards-taking-sides-over-new-online-charter-school#storylink=cpy

What, exactly, is it that

What, exactly, is it that you think your kids should be getting from public education that they aren't getting?

Challenged. But, unlike all


But, unlike all your lib buddies fighting for their magnet spot on this blog, my fight here isn't about my kids.  My kids are going to get what they need with or without a good public school system in NC/WC because their parents are going to take up any slack the system doesn't provide.  My fight is about the failure of public education to make ANY improvement with regard to ED students after decades of claiming they are the top priority and dumbing down the rest of the system in the process.  As a tax payer, I'd prefer my tax money be spent on effective education which I believe will ONLY be realized with innovation driven by competition.  I'm not worried about the AMOUNT of money we're spending (happy to provide more), I'm concerned about HOW we're spending the money and the method of delivering the education. 

Why are you so afraid of giving something else a try?  What's going to happen?  Half the ED kids aren't going pass or graduate or something?

You should go to some of the

You should go to some of the Board Advisory Council meetings.  Innovative ideas in public education aren't hard to find.  What's hard to find is the money to implement them and, after that is found (of if it isn't really needed), it's hard to get parents to buy in unless the innovation is "convenient".

I don't have a problem with the charter cap being lifted.  I don't really care if there is an online charter option.  However, I do think that an online school is enough of a radical change that it needs a little more research than a normal charter school.  Especially in light of the fact that this particular school has gone into a business partnership that will take money out of other school districts in the state and deposit it into the Cabarrus County school district's general fund.

As for the challenge, I think that's relative.  If you're one of those parents that drills their kids all the time and brags about how "My kid was reading at a 2nd grade level when he walked into kindergarten", then I don't think Wake County should have an obligation to keep your kid at such an accelerated pace.

The simple fact is that if your kid (or anybody else's) is at the top of their class taking the most challenging classes available throughout their time in WCPSS, when they graduate they will be at least a sophomore in college....no matter what high school they attend.

In many cases, the ED student problem may very well be similar to the old adage about getting a horse to water.  The reality is that no matter what types of programs you institute those kids are still the most likely to drop out and/or get into other kinds of trouble in and out of school. 

The reason "money to

The reason "money to implement them" is so hard to find is because it's all wrapped up in the current public school system!

The most challengeing classes available in WCPSS are only available to a select group of fortunate individuals, which is not based on need or merit.

How do you know what reality is for ED students?  You want let them have access to other programs outside of the regular public school system.  Some may still drop out, some may not.  You are simply assuming what will happen because the public school system has failed to find anything that works on a regular basis.

No matter what ES, MS or HS

No matter what ES, MS or HS you attend, if you take the most challenging classes you will go to college as at least a sophomore.  Some schools offer more, some offer less, but that doesn't change the fact that there is opportunity at every school.

When the GOP lifted the charter cap, they didn't require charters to provide transportation.  If a charter doesn't offer transportation, how are ED kids supposed to get there?  If an ED kid can't afford lunch, and the charter doesn't offer it, how is he supposed to eat?

How are ED kids suppose to get there

And that is the point isn't it. The lifting of the charter cap was not to provide opportunities to ED kids, but to allow the suburban elite a private education on the taxpayer's dime. The fact of the matter is charters and virtual schools fail ED students at a higher rate than do the public schools.  Apparently it is ok to take risks with taxpayer $ to experiment on new learning methods with a for profit organization but heaven forbid public schools are given the same latitude.

The right side of the aisle says let charters and virtual schools compete with public schools. I say level the playing field, take the shackles off the public schools and let them compete with the charters and virtual schools.  A positive coming out of this is the price point being charged. The righties believe privatization results in efficiency and lower costs. K12 charges $7,500 per student for a class siz of 35-40. Applied to Wake County's 150,000 students = $1.1b. This is bare bones, no transportation, lunch, arts, or sports. Put the adders on for these services and it becomes painfully obvious that wcpss is underfunded.  Further more, since the price of education is benchmarked against a private entity, there should be no need for a 300 page budget and all of the time and effort that goes into it. It should be simply a one page budget of  # of students x $X per student.  Then let the superintendent decide on how to spend the $.


Charter schools are public schools.  They're the avenue that the GA has chosen for experimentation.  In part, they're supposed to be laboratories to see what makes sense to incoprorate into traditional public schools.  

I don't know how the forthcoming Wisdom Academy and Howard and Lillian Lee Scholars Charter School fit into your view that charters won't provide opportunities to ED kids. 

Charters are laboratories

Fair enough I get that.  But what pearls of wisdom have been imparted and incorporated back into the public school ?


I think the school system has been using Direct Instruction more after it's been used at Franklin Academy.   I believe that the Kahn Academy's "classroom flipping" first started being used outside the public school system, and has slowly started taking root there.

It's tough, though -- the public school system resists change.  For example, the NC Virtual Academy (the NC school, not the charter) is a late comer to virtual education -- home school students have been doing that for years.  (Check out Stanford's offering.  It's really cool). 

Wisdom Academy Board of

Wisdom Academy Board of Directors is committed to ensuring that transportation is not an obstacle for students to enroll in the school. Wisdom Academy will help organize carpool groups among parents from close neighborhoods. The school will provide transportation for the exceptional students as prescribed by law.

It's not realistic to act like there aren't ED parents who are concerned with and involved in their children's education.  Those parents are the ones who will put their kids in this school, and those kids are the ones that wouldn't have much trouble in regular public schools.

If this school doesn't provide regular busing, lunches, and before/after school care opportunities, I don't see how it could do much for most ED families.  I hope that it's just my lack of vision.

Wisdom Academy may be a great tool for kids in a needy part of Wake County, or it could be a revenue stream for a church.  We'll see.

You're looking at the

You're looking at the application Wisdom submitted last year for the fast track to open in 2012. Go to this one they resubmitted in April for opening in 2013. Page 142 indicates they'll provide a bus for more than just EC students.

Thanks for that link.  I

Thanks for that link.  I didn't realize they had moved their opening to 2013.

I have another question:


That is the information packet about the fast-track process that was in effect for the 2012-13 school year.

Do the dates/deadlines in that packet mean nothing?  It seems like the virtual charter school applied under one set of guidelines but then won their approval through a different set.  What am I missing?

Did they submit their fast track application to the OCS by Nov. 10, 2011?

Did they contact the OCS for guidance since they applied with a local LEA?

Did OCS receive an LEA impact statement by December 2, 2011?

Did they NC Charter School Advisory Council have their application in December of 2011 for review?

Would the following statement from the packet not mean that their application to open for the 2012 school year was late, and therefore not to be considered?  It seems like they would have had to have had preliminary approval and also have their application submitted to the OCS by November 10, 2011, which they did not do.

A. Deadline for Filing Charter School Applications.
(1) Applications for charters must be received in the Office of Charter Schools, Room 229, 301 N. Wilmington Street, Raleigh, North Carolina, no later than 12:00 noon on the date specified in the charter school application packet for that year.
(2) Applications received in the Office of Charter Schools after the deadline specified in (a)(1) shall not be considered.

It seems like they should have been applying for a charter to open their school in 2013.


Doesn't matter: "The State Board shall act by March 15 of a calendar year on all applications and appeals it receives prior to February 15 of that calendar year."

If the school completely ignored the State Board's rules, then the State Board should have turned down the application -- that was completely within the State Board's rights: they are allowed to reject an application that doesn't meet the requirements it adopts.  And, frankly, there's a pretty good case to be made that they should have rejected it.  But, the fact is that they didn't.  

A. Deadline for Filing

A. Deadline for Filing Charter School Applications.
(1) Applications for charters must be received in the Office of Charter Schools, Room 229, 301 N. Wilmington Street, Raleigh, North Carolina, no later than 12:00 noon on the date specified in the charter school application packet for that year.
(2) Applications received in the Office of Charter Schools after the deadline specified in (a)(1) shall not be considered.

So this really means nothing, and the SBE wastes its time by making any rules concerning application deadlines.  That's what you're saying, right?

Because the fast-track process was put in place specifically to address the short turnaround between the lifting of the cap and the start of the 2012-13 school year. 

I'm pretty sure a big part of the decision was the the State Superintendent's declaration that no online schools would be considered for fast-track was not voted on and therefore not official.  Well, the dates and times in this packet most likely were voted on by the Board, so they should be official.

Based on this, the application should have been received in the OCS way earlier than it was unless applying to Cabarrus somehow satisfies that requirement.  Since it was supposed to be in the process of review by state level agencies in December and wasn't even approved by Cabarrus until January, it looks like their entire agenda was to circumvent the SBE from the beginning.

If, in the SBE's eyes, the application was late, they weren't obligated to respond....unless they aren't allowed to make rules.  Part 2 above says shall not be considered, it doesn't say will not be approved.

Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/wakeed/north-carolina-school-boards-taking-sides-over-new-online-charter-school#new#storylink=cpy


The State Board can make a bunch of rules.  Those rules just can't conflict with the statute.  I don' t know what the date specified in the application packet was, but if it was before 2/15, then that rule conficted with the statute.  The law says that the board SHALL act on every application received by Feb 15th.  They would have been better off saying "applications received after the deadline will be rejected."

I'm not even entirely sure that's legitimate -- the law clearly intends that the state board decide on final approval pretty quickly.  Can they just decide to stretch it out because they want to?  I don't think so.  Of course, as long as nobody complains, the state board is going to keep doing what it wants.  And, frankly, it's not really a good idea to complain -- this is the first school to really take that shot over the bow.

BTW. . . I think it was Bill Harrison--the board chair--who made that statement.  Even if the board had voted on that, though, the state board still had an obligation to either accept or reject every application that came in by the deadline.  

The filed the fast-track

The filed the fast-track application to Cabarrus, which is what they call it on the first page.

Well now...

I was reacting to this statement:

The lifting of the charter cap was not to provide opportunities to ED kids, but to allow the suburban elite a private education on the taxpayer's dime.

These two schools demonstrate that the lifting of the charter cap has led to opportunities to ED kids.

You're making a different claim, which is basically that charters are only for kids with involved parents, affluent or not.  You're also further claiming that those kids wouldn't have substantial problems in regular public schools.  

I think that's a leap. First of all, there isn't a strict dichotomy of parents -- it may be that they're partially involved.  Secondly, it may be that they correctly believe that their kids would do better in the charter than in the regular public schools.  

And, finally, charters are not just for those having serious issues in regular public schools -- it's perfectly reasonable to say "my kid is doing OK in public school, but would be better served in this charter over here."

OK. I don't really believe


I don't really believe in "partially involved", to be honest.  I don't think you have to be working on flash cards during vacations and doing math drills between innings of baseball games to be considered an "involved parent".

If a parent makes sure their kids are getting to school, getting sleep, getting food, and setting aside time to do their homework, chances are pretty good that their kids will do fine as long as there are no other issues at play. 

There are some kids that are beyond the help that parents can provide, and that isn't related to economic status.

I just don't understand how this school is targeting a needy population if it isn't going to be able to accept kids who don't have access to transportation.  But, I don't necessarily have the same perspective of ED that most people here have.....I don't automatically consider them "needy" because of their economic status.  I have known people who have purposefully lived with less income so that they could be more involved with their kids' lives.  I have no reason to think there aren't people like that all over Wake County.

It's great that this school is going to be there, but it makes me a little sad to see them touting their 20:1 student-teacher ratio since I know that they will be taking funding from WCPSS that will likely ensure that more WCPSS classrooms are closer to the class size limits.  If WCPSS could get money to keep class sizes that low, there is a good chance the ED student performance would improve.  But WCPSS doesn't have the luxury of saying "Sorry...we're full.  No more room."


Schools have not always provided transportation -- there's no harm in actually walking to school.  

Wisdom is just up the street from Enloe, and tried to place itself squarely in the center of its target population.

Recall that nearly all of those students going to Wisdom will be coming from WCPSS.  So, yes, WCPSS will lose funding because of them. There should be no net effect of WCPSS class size.


I would like to see enforcement of the 1.5 mile rule. If you are within 1.5 miles you get your kid to school - period. The money saved could be reallocated back into the system to reduce class sizes.  Also charters do not offer alot of the extras like sports, so again they can take the $ and dedicate this to smaller class sizes. 


It is in use.....


The 1.5 mile rule isn't always practical -- I know students who live within 1.5 miles of WF-R Middle School, but would have to cross Capital Blvd to walk there.  Those kids should not be required to walk.  

Not only is 1.5 not always practical

It's not enough. 

It should be a 3, 4 or 5 mile rule!


So are you saying the goods and services the State purchases on behalf of its citizens should not have to meet some measurable standard of quality?  Or is it just education that you think should not be held to a standard since you are anti-public education?

Where has it been shown that there is "sufficient demand" for this form of instruction or that it meets or exceeds the results available under current models?

When it comes to education,

When it comes to education, I don't believe the state has any clue what "quality" education is nor do they know how to measure it.  If the did have a clue, it would be nice to have them set minimum standards which, if met, should be all that's required to deliver educational services paid for by tax payer funds.  I see no need for an new alternative form of instruction to "meet or exceed the results" available under current models as there is no current reliable means for determining "results".  What exactly are "results"?  EOG scores?  SAT scores?  College acceptance? Getting a job?   I'm sure you have your one, closed minded answer for "results" but I bet if you ask 10 people (that are in your circle of liberal friends), you'd get at least 7 different answers.

I expect the other 3...

are republicans whose answer would be "let's close the department of education" as a solution to the problem. And then elect a bunch of uneducated morons to the school boards.

And they would be right, the

And they would be right, the federal dept of education should absolutely be eliminated....

And continue to....

send their kids to the public school system.

Lead by example

Looking for you to lead by example. Have you already signed your kids up for K12 virtual school. I am sure it must be cheaper than private.  Give it a try and let us know how you like it ? 

My choices are my

My choices are my choices.... I don't expect others to agree with them are follow me....I want them to do what's best for their children and their particular situation. 


I am sure the people who believe they are not getting an adequate education can speak for themselves. As for choice, I have no problem with choice. However, K12 is a potential vendor of my tax $ and as such they should be subject to the vetting any vendor receives. Do they provide a quality product and are they cost effective ? There seems to be some concerns in this area: high failure rates of ED students, charging districts for students that never logged in, ......ect.

Doesn't sound like....

it from your rants on this forum. You want everyone to follow your judeo-christian morals and values on everything child related.

What rant would that be? 

What rant would that be?  I'm simply arguing for parents to have choice.  I don't recall telling anyone what that choice had to be....please provide one example of that.

Brilliantly stated!!

Brilliantly stated!!

Well...it sure got the libs

Well...it sure got the libs hot'n bothered!


So help me out - what is a conservative ? Any of the below

 the philosophy committed to the ideal of limited government, constitutionalism, rule of law, due process, and liberty of individuals including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets

           the ideological belief in giving all people economic freedom, and as such granting people with more basis to control their own lives and make their own mistakes

 is a political and social philosophy that promotes the maintenance of traditional institutions and supports, at the most, minimal and gradual change in society



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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.