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The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? How will the new choice-based assignment system work now that the socioeconomic diversity policy has been eliminated? How will Superintendent Tony Tata lead the state's largest district through more budget cuts and possible layoffs? How will the board respond to growth and the school construction program?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

Node 325 dropped

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The Node 325 people have been more successsful, it seems, at getting dropped from the reassigment plan than other bigger groups.

At the urging of Kevin Hill, the school board agreed to not reassign Node 325 from Wakefield middle and high schools over to Wake Forest-Rolesville. The people in that node had been concerned they'd be overlooked because of the larger groups pushing for change in the area.

In contrast, the Bedford folks are still slated to go from Wakefield to Heritage High.

UPDATE

The board has finished reviewing the reassignment plan. Thursday's work session has been cancelled. Next up is the final vote on Tuesday.

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great

these are great informations but i would like to see more about betsson10 .

I actually agree with

I actually agree with supportwcpss on this one. The people involved in this Childrens PAC are only in this because they are affected. I know that one of the founders (maybe lacymom?) has said that yes, they got involved because they were affected but now they see what's happening to everybody else and its awful. Hello? Where have you been all these years? How can you not know that other schools and families are being treated shabbily by WCPSS? Some Lacy parents were involved in the 'no MYR' fight originally so how could you not know what's been happening?

I think you've kept your mouths shut all these years because you were afraid of having the same thing happen to you--MYR being bused out of your school, etc. Of course, its not just you--not trying to make this a 'gang up on lacy' thing.

I don't think that vsheehan, myself or anybody else is wrong for saying we're not going to hand over money and support to some new PAC just because they claim to be supporting everybody. I want to see evidence of that. I want to know what issues you think are important. I want to make sure that what is fought for by your PAC isn't going to negatively impact other parts of the county. Is your PAC aware of the issues in every part of the county? How do you think they should be addressed?

Some of us have put in too much time and effort into researching the issues and making connections with people in other parts of the county to just join some new group without being sure of their goals and motivations. Right now you just don't have the track record for some of us to be able to trust. That's ok. You'll have plenty of other members. Besides, I plan to keep an open mind about you. :-)

Open Mind

I think keeping an open mind is a very constructive approach. Its clear that there has been a lot of toxic political water under the bridge, but how do we know that LacyMom and the PAC had anything to do with Hope Carmichael et al? We don't. And I am willing to assume they didn't.

Isn't it just possible that this is a new, energized group that has suddenly woken up like a sleeping dragon? So, they don't share the battlescars - you - long time bloggers- are there to help us all learn where the pitfalls and landmines are.

What you have to recognize, Lacymom is what I've come to understand is that lots of these longtime bloggers are ACTIVE parents who have been burned by politicians who turned out to be doubleagents, switching in midstream. They HAVE to be sure the PAC won't do the same thing. A PAC and WSCA partnership is a very hopeful goal we should work toward. In an ideal world, it will be a symbiotic relationship.

I don't know how to form a PAC. I think the idea of a PAC is a really powerful one. Together the parents and the PAC are a lot stronger. But emphatically yes, we have to agree on the same goals.

I don't assume that the PAC has different goals. I bet you don't have goals carved in stone just yet. I don't disparage you because you have come to this late. I think its WONDERFUL that you are coming with a positive, productive energy. Keep it up! And I am ASSUMING with that good cheer that we will have more in common that at odds. Let's try to make it so.

Angela I need your help.

Angela I need your help. Another Email group that deals with the education of African American students brought up the fact that it looks like the gap between ethnicities that lagged behind other ethnicities has grown. This perception is based off of the new NC report cards. I hate states I was wondering if you would run the numbers to see if this is true, please. You do not have to but your expertise with stats shines in all your posts and we could use your help.

And the data says....

In 07-08 across Wake County, 33.4% of Black students, 35.1% of Hispanic students and 78.7% of White Students passed their EOGs.   That's a gap of 45.3% for Black students and 43.6% for Hispanic students.   In 06-07, those differences were 39.4% for Black students and 33.4% for Hispanic students.    (Just looking at elementary school numbers.)

 This is only a gap of one year, so it's really unlikely that either White students have gotten a lot better or Black and Hispanic students have gotten a lot worse.  Instead, the goal posts moved by toughening up the standards on the reading EOG.  My interpretation is that there were a lot more Black and Hispanic kids who would have just scraped by in '06-07 than White kids.  (as a percentage, not raw numbers.)

The strange thing about this is that the state has the raw EOG scores -- they know the bell curves for each ethnicity and knew what would happen when the reading EOGs were toughened up.   But, they seemed surprised when it actually happened.

 

Comparing percentage

Comparing percentage differences is not really the correct way to measure gaps between cohorts like this.

 The most accurate and meaningful way to do so is to take the mean scale scores of each group, White vs. Black, White vs. Hispanic, etc. and calculate the difference in mean scale score in units of standard deviation.

The gap between White and Black students in past years has been between 0.8 and 0.9 units of standard deviation, essentially unchanged as far back as the test results are available (93-94 is the oldest).  It does appear that Wake County's test score advantage for Black and economically disadvantaged cohorts over that of Charlotte-Mecklenburg has been reduced substantially over the past 10 years.

Unfortunately, I do not see where the mean scale scores and standard deviation values are available for 2007-08 on a per-cohort basis yet.  I'm interesting in crunching the numbers when that data is available.

Agree...

But, you make do with what you have....

Thanks Eric  Ahh I

Thanks Eric 

Ahh I havent heard some one talk that way since the forced stats class. Calc fun stats bad

I do have a question it may sound stupid but when I hear stats words my IQ drops to Neanderthal levels. 

What you said about CMS compaired to WCPSS. Did you mean that CMS is doing better or WCPSS is doing worse.

Stats is fun - stats is

Stats is fun - stats is what I do for my living :)

You probably just weren't taught stats very well :)

blegh, rather do natural

blegh, rather do natural childbirth again! :+)  dont' even know how I wind up doing #'s for info ...

I went to a wonderful

I went to a wonderful college that taught stats well. I just do not enjoy them the way I do other parts of math as I can never visualize a “T score”.  Angela is correct in my mind. Childbirth only last 20 hours at the worse while stats go on forever.  Stats are extremely useful  and I appreciate the fact that there are many people out there that love stats.

WCPSS used to have a fairly

WCPSS used to have a fairly large advantage over CMS when looking at the scores of Black and economically disadvantaged students.  That advantage has now been almost completely eliminated.

So you could say that these cohorts in CMS have improved relative to WCPSS or that the performance of WCPSS relative to CMS has declined.  The statements are equivalent.

You could also say the performance gap of these students in CMS versus WCPSS has shrunk, eliminating WCPSS's advantage.

We're going to hold meetings

We're going to hold meetings all over the county in order to make it as convenient as possible for parents to attend, and
everyone is welcome and encouraged to come and discuss these issues.
For those who say they're "suspicious" of the PAC, I'm not real sure what you're suspicious of so I can't respond. What is clear is this - this blog's going crazy because our BOE is making ludicrous decisions. And parents are all too satisfied to fight each other rather than focus their anger on those who provoked it.
It's okay to be angry at the betsson BOE. And it's okay to demand representation for your taxes. And that's what we're going to do.

Exactly

You hit the nail on the head ictorna! And the WSCA plans to hold meetings all over the county. If you cannot come on Thursday but would like to come to a future meeting please send a request for an evite to wsca09@gmail.com. You can decline this one, but then you'll be on the list for future meetings.

thus, begging the question,

thus, begging the question, is WCPSS "diversity busing policy" working as it stands now?

vsheehan, I can certainly

vsheehan, I can certainly TRY,I am the last person by far to be asking, so many others here do stats so well, Bob Sconce did some, raleighreader (Jenn) has fantastics stats, Falc, etc but I will certainly do what I can!!

PS

told ya, i wasn't the person to ask! :)

Good Questions

A lot of people on here are asking valid and pertinent questions regarding The Childrens PAC.

First of all, the PAC is not a Lacy PAC. I think my username gives the wrong impression since I wrote about the PAC. People from all over the county have asked to be a part.

And let's be clear. If we really want to change the way our BOE does business, we have to be a county-wide PAC.

That being said, did Lacy being moved educate us as to what's going on countywide to a level of detail we never would have had before? Absolutely. And some of us were shocked and outraged by the stories we heard from parents at public hearings and the data on other schools we ran across in looking at our own.

Are we "scorned" and "looking for revenge"? Not in the eyes of our country's founding fathers. They set up the democratic system we enjoy today.

It's sad to me that people sometimes look down on political activism. Collectively pooling resources, information, time and energy to put the right people into political office is part of a healthy democracy.

So these "Johnny Come Lately"s are going to take action. 4 out of 9 BOE seats are up for election this fall. With countywide test scores that are embarassing, reassignment maps that make gerrymandering look logical and parents deserting the public schools in record numbers, I believe we will see tremendous interest in this PAC.

We're going to hold meetings all over the county in order to make it as convenient as possible for parents to attend, and
everyone is welcome and encouraged to come and discuss these issues.

For those who say they're "suspicious" of the PAC, I'm not real sure what you're suspicious of so I can't respond. What is clear is this - this blog's going crazy because our BOE is making ludicrous decisions. And parents are all too satisfied to fight each other rather than focus their anger on those who provoked it.

It's okay to be angry at the BOE. And it's okay to demand representation for your taxes. And that's what we're going to do.

Have you considered joining

Have you considered joining forces with the established Wake Alliance Lacymom?

For those who say they're

For those who say they're "suspicious" of the PAC, I'm not real sure what you're suspicious of

===========
I'm the one who used the word "suspicious".

I wasn't at all obscure in my meaning, either.  I said, I am suspicious of your motives.  Is the motivation to reform the BOE, or is it to make sure Lacy stays untouched? 

I also explained why it matters - because people invest time, money, and most of all hope, in things like this and if the PAC is going to disappear once Lacy is back to normal, then it's not worth the investment.  Not if Lacy is the only one that benefits while other schools are still hurting.

For me, it detracts from your message to say "I'm not real sure what you're suspicious of", when I've explicitly written what I'm suspicious of. 

Let me say it again

Look - we are not forming this PAC to take care of Lacy.   Lacy's issue is over with and we are going forward full steam ahead and getting emails and calls from all over the county from those wanting to be a part of it.

I, too, felt that I had been abundantly clear in my original post.  Our "motive" is to raise big money, identify viable and passionate candidates, employ classic election strategies and elect BOE members who will not allow the kind of ridiculous actions written of on this blog.

I'm sorry there is such a great deal of distrust regarding this.  Remember - we're not the enemy.  The current BOE, however, certainly qualifies.

Fair enough.  If the

Fair enough.

 If the Children's PAC reps are at the Wake Alliance meeting and the 2 groups can come to some agreement, and hash out a plan, I will be supportive.

Join

The Wake Alliance group is not a political action committee. I would encourage all Lacy parents to join our efforts.

Please write to wsca09@gmail.com

 

I'm a newbie - what's the

I'm a newbie - what's the difference between Wake Alliance and a PAC?

PAC

A political action committee (PAC) is a group speficially formed to raise money and make contributions to elect political candidates that they support. There are laws and guidelines that a PAC must follow. 

The Wake Alliance is the name of the group that is being formed to address the problems in our school system. It is not a PAC - it is not raising funds.  It will be a group of parents from throughout Wake County that are dissatisfied and are looking for change. I could see both groups (the Children's PAC and Wake Alliance) working together nicely.

 

 

Lacy Representatives Will Be At Wake Alliance

I asked the Wake County Alliance group if they knew of this new PAC.  They responded and said they will have representatives from the Lacy PTA at the meeting on the 5th.  I agree that both groups could work nicely together.  The only way to change things in our school system is to change the BOE members.  The current BOE is so intrenched in their status quo thinking that the kids are the ones that will pay from the negative consequences of their actions.  In order to accomplish this change  we will need funding to back the candidates and help get them elected.  If the PAC can raise funds and support the candidates then it's a WIN WIN.

 

Wake County Alliance was

Wake County Alliance was started by parents who have been involved in this fight longer then the Lacy parents who started the PAC. Thats the important diffrence.  The perseption is the Alliance is made up of enough parents across Wake that everyones concerns will be meet not just Lacy's concerns

i agree with Sideburns the

i agree with Sideburns the Lacy parents would be better off joining Wake Alliance.  the group allready has comptent people organizing parents. the people starting the PAC will go further in their efforts to just join an existing group.

What about the Wake Alliance

What about the Wake Alliance folks?  Did you talk to them?  What is different between the groups?  Why start another group instead of helping one that's already started?

 I'd like to see the answers to the questions - what specific qualifications will you look for in BOE candidates? 

I agree with loriac.  The

I agree with loriac.  The Lacy parents did not join an already existing group. Instead they initiated the creation of a new  group lead by them. It has a feeling of ISB only matters, and  an almost obnoxious belief that only the Lacy parents can fix this problem.   If the PAC really wanted to change things they would join an existing group and offer their help not start a new group.   Don’t get me wrong the Lacy parents are needed but not as the head of a group but more as willing helpers. Something tells me Lacy parents who want to start the PAC could never do that that their hubris would get in the way.  If the PAC has had any real experience in the lobbing field outside of NC then they would know that this perception of the PAC  has more of an impact then the realty. 

Working Together

The Children's PAC wasn't formed because there were no other groups concerned about our school system.  

We're already a group far beyond Lacy's issues.  We have heard from Leesville parents, some in Cary and Garner who have already joined with us.  

Why did this PAC get beyond "just Lacy" so quickly?  Because parents know our system is broken and let me tell you they are serious .  It's time for radical change.  And the "reality", vsheehan, is that until we address the pure politics of this, it will be business as usual for the school board.

So are you with us?

Depends is Lacey’s

Depends is Lacey’s traditional nodes finally willing to take on the F&R load that schools outside Raleigh have had bused in from Raleigh? These outside Raleigh schools had a F&R population equal to or greater then Lacey’s but the BOE added more F&R to these schools so Lacy parents would not run away. If Raleigh residents of all incomes had to deal with the consequences of not working to help their LI populations needs , then the rest of  Wake would not have to be dealing with the consequences.   LI problems we have no control over since we do not live  in Raleigh.

What?

Someone has fed you a real line of hooey, vsheehan, as you seem to think that Lacy has caused all the ills of other schools.

 You still haven't answered the question - are you going to help us help all the children in Wake County have a decent school board by joining the Children's PAC?

Or are you content to throw grenades at one school all day? 

Hypocrite

I'm hated on this board and don't think I would ever agree with sheehan but  I do. These people have been fighting for what they believe in for a long time.  And you suddenly jump into the mix only because your school was effected.  If the BOE went back to leaving you alone you wouldn't put nearly as much effort into it.  And don't say you would, or you would have been around a long time ago.

Disagreement does not equal hate

FYI: we disagree; I, for one, don't hate you, nor feel ill will towards you. I believe you're standing up for your point of view. Disagreement isn't hate.

It appears that WCPSS went

It appears that WCPSS went just a little too far this time.  They have always upset just a small enough group that they could keep the inner-fighting going amongst parents and take the focus off their disfunctional organization.  Ignoring the parents for too long engaged enough people that I believe times are a' changin'.

Wake County Parents Unite;  this is going to be great.

Working Together

The Children's PAC wasn't formed because there were no other groups concerned about our school system.  

We're already a group far beyond Lacy's issues.  We have heard from Leesville parents, some in Cary and Garner who have already joined with us.  

Why did this PAC get beyond "just Lacy" so quickly?  Because parents know our system is broken and let me tell you they are serious .  It's time for radical change.  And the "reality", vsheehan, is that until we address the pure politics of this, it will be business as usual for the school board.

So are you with us?

yes, I am skeptical of the

yes, I am skeptical of the new PAC too gwaihir. There are many of us who have spoken out about unfair reassignments or year round converstions even when we ourselves weren't affected. Where have these people been in all of this? Have they cared? Beverley Clark is a well known supporter of the diversity policy so if these parents dislike the policy so much, why was she re-elected by a landslide? Her main opponent had some really good ideas--he wasn't a crackpot or anything.

I suspect that they were fine with the diversity policy and the BOE as long as it didn't affect them. It will take a lot for me to trust them. If they can make headway into this mess, more power to them. But I won't be donating money lending any support until I see and hear more of the platform.

So far the language in their flyer is very vague.

Ditto

I listened as Davis Drive parents defended the last bond before the WCPSS started up their machinations with DD. Then, afterwards -- they were aghast. "How dare WCPSS do this to us?" was the sentiment -- and, yes, yet another group formed. A better, more improved one, no doubt, as if the others were left wanting. The change wasn't the other groups, but, it seems as if families have to wait until the WCPSS is in their face to see the threat. Otherwise, there's way too much good TV to catch up on.

Irrationality is a significant factor in public policy, I'm afraid. The WCPSS's game is placate enough parents to keep the opposition to a slow simmer.

I agree. These kids won't

I agree. These kids won't go to Stough, anyway. Some will be grandfathered, the rest will get transfers.

Let's do something about it!

Fiesta Mom -

You're right.  This kind of thing happens all over the County.

 For some of us, that's what hit us while going through this process.  We went in focusing, of course, on what was happening with our school.  While taking care of that we saw just how egregious the school board's actions were in most cases.

So we have formed The Children's PAC.  This is not another nonprofit that is formed to speak out on school board issues.   What those groups do is important and we applaud them for it.

 But we are a PAC and have formed solely for the purpose of electing board members who will look out for the real interests of the kids, not those of administrators.  And we will also focus on defeating board members who do not do so.

The school board operates the way they do because these races are pretty much "off the beaten path" politically.  We have allowed them not to have to worry about the voting electorate.

I urge you to join us and let's actually take back our schools the only way that works - old-fashioned politics.

Ok...

Lacymom --

   I applaud the effort.  However, I don't have enough details.  Which of the following are in the "real interests of the kids":

-- Mandatory Year-Round School

-- Busing for diversity reasons

-- Adding an increase in the charter cap to the legislative agenda

-- At-large districts

-- transfer of school construction to the county commissioners

 -- Allowing devlopers to contribute land or schools in exchange for assignment promises

I like the fact that you have taken the effort to do something about the current school board.  I am just curious if we agree on what a better board would do.  Whether it's deserved or not, a lot of the rest of the county is distrustful because of Hope Carmichael's switch in favor of the last school bond only AFTER Lacy was dropped from the conversion.

 

Excellent

Excellent questions.

Given the Lacy parent's actions at the time of the last bond, I do question their motivations.  Are they in favor of real WCPSS reform, and if so, what specific reforms do they want?  Or do they simply have a "leave Lacy alone no matter what you do elsewhere" attitude?

So....

I'm not completely sure the criticism is all that warranted.  Of course people are going to be more involved when their kids are at stake than when they're not.   That's why there needs to be broad-based involvement, not just a single school.  One school is easily appeased.   An entire county will only be appeased by wholesale change.

At the same time, if you can't get broad agreement on a few key points, then there's no point in organizing.   I don't need everything on my list, but I need to know that we're on the same page on at least a few of those things. 

If the PAC really wants to change things, then it should come up with a few key issues and reach out to parents all over the county.  It should be capable of sustaining itself even if parents from one school decide to bail.  I would contribute both time and money if that happened (presuming that I agreed with those issues).

IF the House Republicans

IF the House Republicans truly have reintroduced the "elections at large" issue THAT needs to be betsson your first order of business. Without THAT SINGLE ELEMENT you will accomplish nothing! If we can't all vote for these seats then your efforts will make no difference regardless of your leaders bio!

Disagree

FIRST - I don't think you are a "clever" spammer putting a link to gambling site in Berlin that was written in Turkish Language; but maybe a spammer all the same.

As far as your argument, the chances of getting at-large election with the Democratic House members of Wake County to change their mind that are now opposing it are very slim and would take a huge effort to accomplish it is at all possible.  I understand they have to be in 100% concurence to change the curent system. But, the off year elections this year are a huge opportunity to change the makeup of the BoE. There are enough key seats open. While not all of us can vote, we can support the right candidates in those open districts with time, talent, and treasure. This is a far more promising solution to our cause. The main focus should be identifying the battles that can win the "war".

If the PAC really wants to

If the PAC really wants to change things, then it should come up with a few key issues and reach out to parents all over the county.

===========

I am not disagreeing with anything you wrote in your reply to my post above.  However, I think that the above sentence is really the key point out of your reply.  It seems to me that the Lacy parents have a bad track record.  What happens if their PAC focuses on Lacy, or on ITB?  (Not saying that it will, just saying what if it does?)  What happens if the BOE gives them what they want?  Will they then disband even if other schools are still hurting?

This is why I will be taking a wait and see approach.  Imagine being a parent at, say, Dillard Drive, contributing thousands of dollars and hours to a PAC that then disbands the minute Lacy gets what they want. 

I should also add that I am one of the fortunate ones in that my children are in private school.  We are not at the mercy of the WCPSS.  Also, I live in Raleigh and not the county.  Now if *I* feel suspicious of the motives of the Lacy parents, (given that there's no pressure on me or my kids and I don't need to even care about all of this if I don't want to), imagine what the parents who ARE at the mercy of WCPSS, perhaps with shuffled-around kids, may feel. 

Honestly, I think that after what happened with Lacy over the bond, they shouldn't really be surprised if they find out that they need to do some bridge-building for their PAC.  They also shouldn't be surprised if people do indeed want to wait and see.  Again, not saying that this WILL happen.  Just saying that they shouldn't be surprised IF it does happen.  There is a cost to getting involved (time or money, or even just to have a hope that might get dashed) and people will want to be sure the cost is worth it.

From the Lacy parents point of view, they should care about the rest of Wake in my opinion, because they need more than just their votes to change the board. Their rep could be neutralized by the reps from other districts if people don't trust Lacy and decide to vote accordingly.  And if the BOE does go to at-large voting, then Lacy will really need to have some trust from others in Wake, or their endorsed pol could be outvoted no matter how much money they may have. Look at Dole vs Hagan.  Dole had money, name, and incumbency.  Yet she lost the people's trust and then she lost the Helms seat to someone who we could say started off as a very long shot.  My point with this is, that if there's a generalized lack of trust in a pol (any pol) that cuts across parties and populations, due to the pol's affiliations, then the pol can and often will lose.

"Or do they simply have

"Or do they simply have a "leave Lacy alone no matter what you do elsewhere" attitude? "

 I'd say you're on to something!

How many of them eat lunch at the Umstead?

Maybe it's a different twist,

but it's still the same ole song and dance.  You're scorned and now you want revenge!

Not that I blame you, or don't applaud you for the attempt, but you have VERY little time to make any kind of an impact before October.  IF the House Republicans truly have reintroduced the "elections at large" issue THAT needs to be your first order of business.  Without THAT SINGLE ELEMENT you will accomplish nothing!  If we can't all vote for these seats then your efforts will make no difference regardless of your leaders bio!

Are you working on that TODAY?  Not next week, not when you get some folks to support you and join up with you, but are you working TODAY to get that pushed through and accomplished???

Until then I say you're just another bunch of unhappy Johnny come lately parents!

I will be interested to see

I will be interested to see how quickly the Lacy parents drop out of the "WCPSS resistance movement" this time, when they get what they want.

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.

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