The school board blew past the conversion issue for Leesville Road Middle.
Nearly all of the discussion was about the Wood Valley students wanting to stay. After that talk, Beverley Clark questioned why they were converting the school when they're even in a position to have space at Leesville.
Asst. Supt. Chuck Dulaney said they'd have to drop 200 kids from the plan if they didn't convert Leesville. On that note, the board moved to a discussion of the next school, Ligon Middle.
UPDATE
The board has wrapped it up for the day after finishing up the middle schools. They'll start high schools on Monday afternoon.
Comments
No change last week does not
Mon, 01/26/2009 - 15:17 — Big_PictureNo change last week does not equate to no change for 2009 does it? Thankfully Lisa B will not give up on the truth. The facts are black and white and the scenario is crystal clear. If the BoE chooses to ignore the yearround chaos at Leesville Elem and Leesville Midd they will prove that the accusations of ignorance are true. Will they take the right step and finally face the reality at Leesville? Good luck CCLP and thank you for the unwavering support to the Leesville community.
90% of all problems would be solved if......
Mon, 01/26/2009 - 00:14 — WuptdoIMHO, 90% of all WCPSS problems would be solved if the 1975 law combining City of Raleigh Schools and WCPSS were reversed or nullified. This was original done as a back-room deal because 70% voted AGAINST combining the two systems. Give Raleigh back their school and let Raleigh people set their own taxes. The same for us poor county folks.
The higher the taxes the better the schools, however, in the case of WCPSS, the higher the taxes, the higher the administrative cost, the higher the building cost, and the school just become even more "average." Somebody is making a whole lot of money, and our kids are getting a whole lot less. What is wrong with this picture?
Millbrook HS renovations
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 12:00 — Eric_BWould one of the two high schools that benefited through the $44 million being diverted be Millbrook HS? There were a bunch of speakers and parents I talked to at the public meeting at Millbrook that cannot believe millions were spent to renovate the school, only to gut the school's base population to make room for magnets students in future years.
Several of the parents cited 800-900 open seats at Millbrook next year. It seems this could have been planned better. We have high schools like Panther Creek and Leesville bursting at the seams while 800+ seats are now being left open for the magnet program in future years. We have schools like Sycamore Creek Elementary with 475 open seats now and 400+ open seats even after 3 years.
The capacity we have available now could be used better!
Agreed
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 18:13 — supportwcpssThat we have reassignment problems in thes examples. That is independent of the fact that some of these schools desparately need renovations. Someone complained about 44M being diverted from 1 billion dollar bond. That is 4.4%. There are renovations that are needed and they made a decision. I would hope they have room to make minor adjustments to the bond money as the economy changes. This is common sense to me. But yet it's another bone for some of you to yell and scream about.
WCPSS crony
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 18:59 — SideburnsIf you consider removing 2 whole schools from a building program in the midst of a capacity crisis a "minor adjustment" and common sense, you really will say anything to support WCPSS.
and you
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 23:03 — supportwcpsswill say anything to oppose WCPSS. Both are a serious issue. They made a decision one was more so with the slowdown in elementary growth.
Not that serious
Mon, 01/26/2009 - 14:57 — SideburnsThe renovation obviously wasn't that serious. The funding wasn't included in the 2006 bond.
The BoE's decision to use those funds for a renovation instead of addressing some of the MYR conversions and building more schools during a "slowdown in elementary growth" was the ultimate slap in the face to parents of Wake County.
you're kidding...
Mon, 01/26/2009 - 16:13 — supportwcpssJust because it wasn' in the bond means it wasn't serious...That only thing I am mad at the BOE about is that they didn't ask for more in that bond. They were scared they wouldn't get it pushed through instead of stepping up and telling everyone how much money they really needed to keep up with growth and reduce use of mobiles.
Wow, we were fooled.
Mon, 01/26/2009 - 16:51 — SideburnsSo they were liars?
They needed the money (seriously) for the high school renovation yet sold it to the public as constructions costs for 2 new elementary schools. And they were "scared" they wouldn't get enough money so they fooled us into believing they only needed $1B.
Is that what you're saying?
if
Mon, 01/26/2009 - 21:52 — supportwcpssthat is how you choose to spin it. Not asking for enough does not make them liars. To conservative, maybe, even a bit on the cowardly side, but not liars.
Of COURSE they are
Mon, 01/26/2009 - 16:56 — g88ky07were and will always be!!!
That's how things get done in the diversity uptopia, good ole boy network!
THEY CAN
Mon, 01/26/2009 - 16:50 — g88ky07ask for 12 bucks next go round and it won't pass! Not YOU, not your buddy Ann Goodnight, not Ed Bonner, not the BS do good'ers you hang with and not a 2 mile stack of lies, we were just short of that amount of lies last time, will pass the next bond!
Stick around to watch!
Are you speaking of the
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 20:06 — shank56Are you speaking of the elementary schools that the Garner mayor and powers that be, stated they did not need?
yes
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 21:09 — SideburnsOne was in Garner, the other in Wake Forest, I believe.
ECMS is an excellent school
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 17:16 — vsheehanECMS is an excellent school with many seats open. 30% of the people who applied for the school were rejected. No one in my neighborhood was accepted. Our base middle school is bursting at the seams from people who opted out of ECMS and other year round schools. Then I read on an email list I am on that “neighborhood schools are a code word for re-segregation”. The question is who is segregating from whom. GHE is going back to a traditional calendar so the kids who were slotted to be bused to GHE cannot opt out again.
I'm not buying it
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 20:50 — local23ECMS may be a fine school, but why is it sooooo empty! Why does most the parents who live in Western/Northern Wake (RTP/Morrisville/Cary/55) not want to go there? Why would we want to bus our kids 8 miles when the new middle school is less than 1.5 miles away and EVERY single Cary MS is actually closer?
GHE Elementary is going back to traditional for other reasons to..Alston elementary will be MYR and every parent who complained again got there wishes along with Patti H pulling for this school once again. Now, what is completely insance is why Carpenter ES will not be able to use GHE as their traditional choice?? It's really all about choice, proximity and community..which our neighborhood will not get..instead our kids will be bused too far into an area that if we wanted to live near EC MS, then we would have bought across town!!
ECMS is a great school with
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 21:03 — vsheehanECMS is a great school with a great group of kids half from the areas you quoted. Why you need to bash the school just because you are being bussed makes nosense. Fine we get it you do not want to be bussed thats ok but dont think the school you have been asigned to is a bad school because its not.
By the way the F&R families who were assigned to ECMS opted out the most. I guess those families do not want their kid near YOU and your child
The BOE has already said that the traditional choice will be a less desirable choice on purpose. They are punishing people who opt out. Reedy Creek MS is the traditional choice for a Garner MS. How is that for insanity.
I never said
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 21:20 — local23that ECMS is not a great school and there is no way that our node 379.1 is half the kids at ECMS..there will be approximately 53 kids from our node (per G&M) that is suppose to attend..I would hardly think that is making a huge impact at ECMS to lower their F&R..after all our node has the huge diversity and F&R..remember they pulled our apartment complex out of GHE into Carpenter to up the F&R%.
I do understand why the F&R opted out..they did not want to be bused too!! Parents cannot not drive unnecessry miles nor aford the cost associated with YR and siblings being on different calendars. This has nothing to do with my children being around any F&R children..you know nothing of our situation and assume way too much:(
So they are punishing families who for WHATEVER reason cannot make the YR calendar work forced down their throats and then punish them because they have to choose the TR??? That just makes absolutely no since IMHO.
Oh you did not say that
Mon, 01/26/2009 - 00:16 — vsheehanOh you did not say that ECMS is an undesirable school. Then what should someone infere from this quote
"but why is it sooooo empty! Why does most the parents who live in Western/Northern Wake (RTP/Morrisville/Cary/55) not want to go there?" That is where I got the idea you found ECMS itself inferior not its distance from your node.
The area that makes up 1/2 of ECMS I said came from the areas you quoted "live in Western/Northern Wake (RTP/Morrisville/Cary/55) " not just your node.
By the way if you live in apartments on that side of Cary expect to be reassigned alot. I knew one 3rd grade girl that has gone to 3 schools in her 3 years in Wake. Her parents have lived the whole time in the same apartment located across the street from her second school. The BOE bounces apartment kids (in that part of Cary) around like rubber balls.
The BOE is nuts for punishing people no disagreement there.
Please look at
Mon, 01/26/2009 - 21:44 — local23ECMS node assignment and you will see there are 8 nodes from the RTP/Morrisville/Cary/55 area that is being assigned to ECMS..or maybe it dropped now because Preston got to stay at WCMS..regardless there are more nodes surrounding ECMS that should be going to this MS..that is my point and I referred to our area (379.0) because borders on all of those areas (RTP/Morrisville/Cary/55). When you look at ECMS and their current numbers and their projected..it blows my mind..because they are not pulling from their surrounding area..just picking and choosing the nodes from all over the place. This YR school plan is unrealistic and I predict they will not even be close in their projections even after 4 years IMHO.
I've been in this same area for over 13 years and know all about reassignment and the havoc WCPSS has done to children, neighborhoods, communities, and parents.
I'm sorry we disagree, but we have been to 3 different ES and 3 different MS and 2 different HS..it's getting pretty old!
I agree with you ... ECMS
Mon, 01/26/2009 - 22:06 — user1234I agree with you ... ECMS map is all over the place ...
http://wwwc.wcpss.net/maps/WCPSS_RAP_2011_PROPOSED_20081215_SCHOOLMAP_402_BAS.pdf
I am not sure what they were trying to accomplish. Maybe it was at the end of the list and got the left over nodes.
if only it wasn't JUST about
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 12:11 — AngelaWif only it wasn't JUST about diversity
"It seems this could have
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 12:20 — user1234"It seems this could have been planned better. We have high schools like Panther Creek and Leesville bursting at the seams ... The capacity we have available now could be used better! "
if only it was JUST about diversity
well.....duh!
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 08:53 — AngelaWChaos cited in K-12 system http://www.newsobserver.com/146/story/1381081.html
(my favorite quote of the article)
It is hard to find an organization like the public schools of North Carolina where so many of the stakeholders are unhappy," said state Rep. Dale Folwell, a Republican from Winston-Salem who has served on the House Education Committee
what about MYR, dear Bev?
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 08:43 — AngelaWRaleigh
http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/letters/story/1380962.html
Adding the proximity factor
I truly value and will investigate the suggestions from families at the public hearings on student reassignment. Most of the moves in this reassignment plan are tied to opening 10 schools, keeping groups of students together and using buildings efficiently, not on a desire for diversity.
However, there is substantial research that at-risk students have a stronger academic experience in diverse schools than they do in high-poverty schools. The research also shows this benefit does not come at the expense of other students. If we returned to a segregated system, the costs, tangible and intangible, would be immense.
For those who think we could simply put our transportation funds in the classroom and thereby overcome the challenges of poverty, think again. In Charlotte, where resegregation is the new norm, the school district spends $18 million to $20 million more per year on transportation costs, $10,000+ more per classroom, millions more in central services. Charlotte's student achievement is decidedly lower than Wake County's.
Despite my strong confidence in both the quality of education in Wake County and the value of diverse schools, I am convinced that we must change our student assignment process. We must factor proximity along with diversity, and we must limit the number of moves that any one child is expected to make. I am hopeful that we can use the challenges of a slow economy and growth to address these issues.
What kind of community do we want to be? Diversity and reasonable proximity are not mutually exclusive, but our strength as a community depends foremost upon equality of opportunity.
Beverley S. Clark
Member, Wake County Board of Education
Raleigh
The length limit was waived to allow a fuller discussion
Cry me a river
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 12:19 — CaryCurmudgeonLet's not forget what Beverly Clark had to say last year about all the whiny pareints: "These people need to go where they're supposed to go!"
I thank you and all the BOE
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 11:32 — user1234I thank you and all the BOE members for stepping forward to try to solve the growth , legal, logistic, budget, etc. problem we have.
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." "<Theodore Roosevelt>
"Too often we enjoy the
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 12:23 — CaryCurmudgeon"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion.... without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK
"Those who would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" -- Benjamin Franklin
Think about it.
I prefer …. “And
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 17:22 — user1234I prefer ….
“And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.” JFK
If you think “essential liberty” is sending your kid to a school 2 mile away instead of 4 or the “right to a summer vacation” … Patrick Henry would be so proud of you fighting that battle soldier. <not>
And if you think borrowing
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 18:16 — CaryCurmudgeonAnd if you think borrowing quotations which don't even apply to the situation increases what little credibility you have, think again. Did you stop taking your meds again?
imagine
Sat, 01/24/2009 - 17:54 — loriacI found this a little ironic:
http://www.wral.com/news/local/noteworthy/story/4392827/
While here in Wake County, the school board spends most of its time figuring out how to bus students all over the county to 'help' them, look what they accomplished in Edgecombe county.
While here in Wake
Sat, 01/24/2009 - 18:11 — user1234While here in Wake County, the school board spends most of its time fighting off lawsuits and holding hours of public meeting look what can be accomplished in Edgecombe county where growth is not out of control and they can spend their time collecting grants from the Golden LEAF Foundation, SAS Institute, Inc., and the North Carolina General Assembly.
$2,000x 134000 students =$268,000,000
A new highschool is $70,00,000
exactly
Sat, 01/24/2009 - 20:39 — loriacWhile here in Wake County, the school board spends most of its time fighting off lawsuits and holding hours of public meeting...
my point exactly
btw, laptops for this purpose are not $2000 - I would guess they are more on the order of $500.
loriac ... you are only
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 11:19 — user1234loriac ... you are only thinking of the HW cost ... you need to include the SW, networking, support cost too ...if it was so cheap everyone would have already done it ...
We just replaced 100K plus
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 18:37 — JanisTangoWe just replaced 100K plus laptops at our company and $500-$750 per laptop was the norm. I think Loriac's estimate is pretty accurate. Most the software I require is not required by a student (i.e. Unix, Oracle, etc). If you purchase in bulk it can be pretty cheap per student.
A few thoughts.... 1)
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 19:22 — user1234A few thoughts....
1) Watch over the next three years to get the total cost of ownership - upgrades, training, insurance, networking add up. With the right leadership and staff training, there might be some teacher efficiency as a benefit but most school and companies don't realize the high ongoing cost of computers.
2) I remember a study that said most kids just use their computer to send email, instant messages and view porn and don't spend time solving difficult math problems like people had hoped.
3) There are quite a few unhappy people on the Edgecombe blogs complaining about how much their property taxes have increased and how these laptops are a waste of money.
4) If it was so cheap, why did it take so many foundations to fund the initial cost?
Computers are ok but I don't think they are necessary. Many kids around the world who don't have computers in their class room routine beat our kids in tests so computers are not a miracle.
If we insisted on computers the one child per computer that goes for about $200 and uses all open source like they use in India might be a good choice is it is so simple and indestructible.
http://laptop.org/en/laptop/index.shtml
So you troll over there,
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 19:45 — loriacSo you troll over there, too! It's starting to make more sense...
My original point about the laptops is that Edgecombe County accomplished this for their students while here in Wake County we spend all our time on reassignment hearings. (So they got grants, good for them)
Our real argument is over whether having a LI student sit next to a middle class student in school helps them more than having access to a laptop.
Right.
Work Session Time?
Sat, 01/24/2009 - 16:37 — new876Keung,
Good afternoon. Do you know what time the work session starts on Monday? Thanks!
1 pm
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 16:17 — KeungHui (author)1 pm
What?
Sat, 01/24/2009 - 16:31 — Sideburns"No permits without approval from the BOE that there will be seat for the projected number of kids."
You lost me right after your first requirement. Are you saying that Raleigh officials (as well as the other 11) should stop promoting growth until the Board of Education says so?
WCPSS has capacity at each school level. It's the efficiency of this capacity that is a problem.
Capacity is there....
Sat, 01/24/2009 - 22:19 — supportwcpssOnly if you count the 18% in trailers. Look at brick and mortar capacity when you get a chance.
....
Sat, 01/24/2009 - 22:48 — SideburnsSo, delaying the construction of those 2 elementary schools is helping our trailer situation how? Those schools would have been more brick and mortar capacity.
Sideburn, officials in
Sat, 01/24/2009 - 18:00 — user1234Sideburn, officials inRaleigh
Growth is good
Sat, 01/24/2009 - 21:56 — SideburnsI don't support stopping growth. You, apparently, do. I like living in an area that is thriving and continuing to grow.
As I said earlier, WCPSS currently has unused capacity at all 3 school levels - elementary, middle and high school. They also had the opportunity to play a little catch up by building what was promised from the 2006 bond. Instead, they diverted the $44M which was to be used to build 2 new elementary schools and are using it for a high school renovation. Yup, those are some real capacity problems.
“Instead, they diverted
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 11:16 — user1234“Instead, they diverted the $44M which was to be used to build 2 new elementary schools and are using it for a high school renovation.”
The way we see it, the money was “diverted” to those d#mn new schools and not to the renovation of older school whose taxpayers have contributed for 30 years waiting for an upgrade. New comers should go to the back of the line.
Of course you don’t support planned growth since you get everything you want... new schools, parks, roads …. “Hey, I just moved hear and built this expensive house and want service now.”
Again, think of if this way, the Mayors think more of sewage than kids. They won’t permit a development without adequate sewage capacity but they have no regard for school capacity.
?
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 21:33 — Bob_SconceThe problem with your first argument is that the School Board advertised
what it was going to do with the bond money before the bond
referendum. If they did something different than that with the money,
then they diverted it.
As far as the "Taxpayers have contributed for 30 years...." argument,
that's a bunch of hooey. Schools are paid for over time by issuing
bonds and repaying them from taxes. Over the past 30 years, taxpayers
have been paying for the original school. Now the school needs
renovations and taxpayers will be paying for those renovations over the
next 30 years.
As to your last point, you're right -- the reason the towns permit development w/o adequate school space is that the towns aren't responsible for the schools. A fantastic solution to that is turn control of the schools back over to the inidividual towns.
Knowing you don't like that, how would you like this scenario:
Town: Hey! That's a big development. No permit without a school.
Developer: Ok. We'll build a school for the kids in the development.
Town: It's a deal: you build a school, transfer it to the district on the condition that it be used for kids in the development, and we'll give you your permit.
“Now the school needs
Sun, 01/25/2009 - 23:36 — user1234“Now the school needs renovations and taxpayers will be paying for those renovations over the next 30 years. “
My point is that my kid in an old school is as valuable as newbie kid. Just because newbie gets here late does not mean we divert from the plan and build him a new school. Otherwise, newbie always gets all the new stuff.
“Town: It's a deal: you build a school, transfer it to the district on the condition that it be used for kids in the development, and we'll give you your permit.”
I would like to see the developer who can come up with $70M to build a public school. Typically, they just want to donate the land and have the taxpayers foot the bill so they can demand a higher price for a private neighborhood school that is publically funded. I would rather give the BOE veto rights over building permits just like the state has on water and sewer.
....
Mon, 01/26/2009 - 11:34 — SideburnsYou are assuming all newbies are moving to the rim of Wake County in grandiose houses. Broaden your thoughts a bit.
Are you saying WCPSS should not divert from their plans? If that's the case, I want those 2 elementary schools built as approved by the voters.
Disagree....
Mon, 01/26/2009 - 11:20 — Bob_Sconce"Just because newbie gets here late does not mean we divert from the plan and build him a new school. Otherwise, newbie always gets all the new stuff."
Well, whose plan? The one that voters agreed on or some other one?
I see no reason that "Newbies getting all the new stuff" is bad, other than pure jealousy. The district isn't going to replace schools just to give oldies new stuff. Without the newbies, nobody would be getting any new stuff. 99% of "new stuff" has no effect on education, anyway -- so, you have wallboard instead of plaster or whiteboards instead of chalkboards... So what? It's not like an ITB school doesn't have computers while an OTB school does. (I'm not convinced that computer access in school has any actual effect on education either.)
There have been several instances where developers have been willing to build a school on the proviso that kids from the neighborhood go there -- they're typically elementary schools, which cost a lot less than $70M.
“I see no reason that
Mon, 01/26/2009 - 13:41 — user1234“I see no reason that "Newbies getting all the new stuff" is bad, other than pure jealousy.”
Actually, it is a safety issue with indoor air. Maybe there is less concern for the safety and well being of “oldie” kids? Also, I think you discount (on purpose?) the importance of ball fields, drainage, an auditorium, parking lot repairs, etc. on a school’s public perception. If the new schools are the ones that are safe and the ones with the amenities, no wonder people are crowding into trailers and hallways to be at these schools.
“Without the newbies, nobody would be getting any new stuff. 99% of "new stuff" has no effect on education, anyway”
There are plenty of schools systems that have a stable population without a large influx of “newbie” that are able to fund regular renovations.
Reference from 2006 Bond
The main purpose of the renovation projects is to correct critical heating, ventilating and air conditioning (HVAC) system deficiencies in the schools and to ensure that they are safe, healthy, quality places for students to learn. Most of the buildings included in the plan are 40-years-old and haven't had a major renovation. The campuses of the 13 schools slated for major renovations are 30-50 years old and renovations are being undertaken so the facilities can serve another 40 years. Lynn Road Cary