Raleigh Charter High and Enloe High are again on Newsweek's list of top 100 public high schools in America.
Raleigh Charter was ranked 33rd on Newsweek's 2009 list. Enloe was ranked 82nd on the list.
Also on the deeper list were Broughton High in 400th, Green Hope High in 649th and Wakefield High in 1,115th.
Click here to see the new rankings that were released online today.
In rival rankings released in December, U.S. News & World Report had also placed Raleigh Charter in its top 100 list for 2009. Raleigh Charter was 20th on that list.
Comments
interesting, really??
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 13:05 — AngelaWhttp://finance.yahoo.com/news/Best-Places-to-Live-usnews-15476164.html?.v=1
Here's our list of the 10 best places to live:
1. Albuquerque, N.M.
2. Auburn, Ala.
3. Austin, Texas
4. Boise, Idaho
5. Durham, N.C.
6. La Crosse, Wis.
7. Loveland, Colo.
8. San Luis Obispo, Calif.
9. St. Augustine, Fla.
10. Upper St. Clair, Pa.
Interesting....
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 13:39 — Bob_Sconce"Its school system is superb: Ninety-eight percent of its high
school graduates go on to college, and the Upper St. Clair school
district currently boasts 10 federal government blue-ribbon "Excellence
in Education" awards.
98%. It looks like WCPSS has some competition for being "world-class" school district. (Like the same competition that my son's baseball team would have against the Yankees.)
Even more interesting...
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 18:07 — MarvinSchwartzFrom the Upper St. Clair town website:
Township covers 10 square miles and has a population of 20,000 (roughly the size of Fuquay-Varina)
83.6% of the households are married couples, 5.6% are single parent families (roughly 1/4 that of Wake)
Families in poverty is 1.8%, versus 8.3% in Wake
School district has six schools (1 high, 2 middle, 3 elem)
And here's the kicker: tax rate for town, county, and school district (yes the school district has their own taxing authority) is $29.74 per $1000 of value, meaning the tax bill on a $300,000 house would be over $8900, or about 3 times what it would be in a Wake County municipality.
Not exactly apples to apples...
Slanted comparison...
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 20:29 — Bob_SconceAll your kicker means is that funding comes from different places. Pennsylvania's income tax rate is 3.07%. So, if you have that $300,000 house and make, say, $120,000, you're going to be paying an extra $5000 in income taxes in North Carolina.
I'm not trying to do an apples-to-apples comparison. Just trying to point out what a "superb" school district looks like. Superb districts do not have schools where 1/4 of the kids aren't at grade level. No "World-Class" district has only 1/3 of its African American students at grade level.
As to the number of schools, that's not a real difference -- if being a small district means that you do better, then WCPSS should break itself up into a bunch of much smaller districts.
You're missing the points
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 21:20 — MarvinSchwartzSo please forgive me if I am not making it clearly...
1. So am I to understand you are defining 98% college attendance rate as a "superb" district? That is as arbitrary as ranking a high school based on the number of AP/IB tests as a ratio of graduating seniors and calling it a "top" high school. But that is nit-picking.
2. You cannot compare a large, comprehensive district with a base population of over half a million people with a single township of 20,000 people. You could sample six schools in Cary or Apex or similar affluence and achieve similar results as the USC school district.
3. Poverty and single-parent rates are significantly higher in Wake and both have been shown to be restrainers in student achievement.
4. The tax example was to demonstrate a larger per-capita tax base to compare per-pupil spending, which I could not find for USC.
So I guess my ultimate point is that USC should be a superb district given its demographics. Kind of like Raleigh Charter High School - it should be a heckuva school considering who goes there.
No...
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 22:15 — Bob_Sconce1. "Superb" came from the USN&WR article. I assume the graduation rate was an example of why it's superb, not the sole reason. To me, the bigger draw is 10 blue ribbon awards, with only 6 schools -- several obviously got more than one. That's a huge achievement.
2. Please name the six schools. To my knowledge, even with 100+ schools, fewer than 6 WCPSS schools have won a blue-ribbon award, let alone 10 of them. Comparisions, unfortunately, are hard due to the lack of a standard measurement.
3. So, discount the poor students. Wake's non-F&R students still don't perform as well as that district's entire population.
4. If you're suggesting that WCPSS should spend more per student, I agree, assuming that the money is spent wisely. Unfortunately, the current board is incapable of doing so -- it would probably put it into transportation, renovating low-priority facilities, additional administrators and public relations instead of reducing class size and improving teacher quality.
I think my point still stands -- Wake County has a long way to go before it's truly a "World Class" school distrct.
Bizarre...
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 10:47 — Bob_SconceThis is a rather silly exercise -- it rates schools according to how many AP, IB and Cambridge tests are taken by the entire school, as a ratio to the number of graduating seniors.
I can poke a million holes into that strategy, starting with the fact that IB students take a lot fewer tests than students focusing on AP. Then, note that it biases in favor of schools with atypically small senior classes. It also doesn't include student scores on those tests, only the number of tests taken.
Lots of good schools on the list, but the only predictive power is that the further up you go on the list, the more standardized tests you'll be taking while you're there.
Bob, you are right, of
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 11:04 — shearertwBob, you are right, of course. There's very limited value in this.
Anyway, the only school ranking that really matters is the one your kid is assigned to and my kid's school ranks "suck". The reason is sucks is not the teachers but WCPSS policies that have destroyed all sense of community and parental support. I have no idea how long my kids will attend this school but I'm pretty sure that when they are reassigned, it will be to another school also ranked "suck". I know this because I live well away from any of the magnet schools and do not live in a high F&R node.
What's Happening At Your School?
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 11:47 — JanisTangoI just got back from my kids school and I'm depressed with what is happening. We had one node reassigned out of our school with 17 kids (90% F&R) and we have a total of 92 that are leaving. There are approximately 60 kids that are going magnet, private, home schooled. So much for WCPSS planning. They said our enrollment will be 520+ next year and we are going to be more like 450. We are losing our Title 1 funding, 3 of our 3rd grade teachers, one kindergarden, one first grade and who knows what else. Their planning has decimated our school. THANKS Chuck! you should be fired!
How many other schools are going to be in the situation because they are driving families out in droves with their insane policies and lack of stability. Every parent I talked to that is leaving is doing so with a heavy heart. They didn't want to leave, but they said it's better to get into a situation they can count on for the future versus dealing with lack of stability that is going on now!
Same chaos, different school!
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 13:23 — g88ky07Well...
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 11:35 — Bob_SconceYup. Of course, WCPSS doesn't use the "S" word. Instead, it uses words like "School of Distinction" like it's a good thing that 1/6th of the kids are failing. (Or "School of Progress" when 1/3rd of the kids are failing.)
The Sconce children will be applying to RCHS when the time comes.
My kids will be applying to
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 11:49 — shearertwMy kids will be applying to "blank" Academy as soon as I can figure out a way to afford it.
I keep pointing out Texas b/c we moved here from a TX elementary school about mid-year and were shocked to find the curriculum of this "nationally recognized" school district about 1 yr behind our "unrecognized" system we left behind. Plus the utter lack of parental involvement, sense of community, etc. I should have been tipped off by the MYR conversion fiasco which made searching for a home with a traditional calendar schedule a nightmare.
Common Reaction
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 11:57 — Bob_SconceLots of people are disappointed when they move here from places with much better school systems. The school district, so far, has largely ignored their concerns and even insisted that it's doing a good job in comparision with other large districts (think Detroit) and other NC districts (think Edgecombe County). But, it cannot keep ignoring them forever.
“I'd also like to point
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 10:02 — user1234“I'd also like to point out that my former state TX has 3 in the top 10 (including #'s 1 & 2) and 1 of those has 49% F&R (ranked #2). I wonder if that has anything to do with TX having Independent School Districts?”
I think you should have pointed out the number of Texas schools list with around 30% subsidized Lunch which did well. That data was not available for Raleigh Charter so I was not sure how to compare their results to the other schools. If they have >30% S. Lunch they would be doing very well. If they have mostly high end kids, their results are to be expected.
Texas also has a budget
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 14:37 — shearertwTexas also has a budget SURPLUS this year...
All this with NO state income tax.
Umm. Thinking of packing my moving van...
Texas Permanent School Fund
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 19:11 — user1234You forgot to mention that oil leases help fund school in Texas which contributes to the surplus.
The Texas State Constitution granted “one half of the [remaining] public domain of the State” and the mineral rights within riverbeds, channels and tidewater boundaries of Texas to support the state’s public schools.
Austin ISD spends
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 08:24 — shearertwAustin ISD spends $8235/pupil
Dallas ISD District spends
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 08:20 — shearertwDallas ISD District spends $8,852 per pupil in 08-09'
Wake spending per pupil for 08-09'
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 08:15 — shearertwWCPSS - $9136 (based on 08-09' "operating budget)
- $15426 (based on 08-09' "total budget)
Overhead %
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 08:32 — Dadof3What's the variance between operating and total? I wonder what the administration overhead is per student? And how soon can we expect a "Mary Easley" tax?
"I wonder what the
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 09:04 — user1234"I wonder what the administration overhead is per student?"
Operating Expenditures by Function
Thanks!
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 10:48 — Dadof3It's cut off in the main page but my rss feeder shows the chart fine.
The total includes
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 08:38 — shearertwThe total includes construction and "nutrition". I'm not sure why they exclude those from their cost/student calculations or if all school disctricts break it out that way.
And your point is? NC has
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 07:30 — shearertwAnd your point is?
NC has a number of resources (tourism for example) that could be tapped to balance the budget. The problem in NC, however, is that spending on non-sense is out of control. The tax burden on individuals is one of the highest in the entire region and going UP.
There are also natural resources here to include oil and gas offshore (and on) but a certain party blocks all attempts to go for it. When I lived in TX, there were several natural gas wells in and around my neighborhood. You could hardly tell what they were if you noticed them at all.
I did, however, notice how much better our schools were and the per/pupil spending was LESS than here ($6,383 in my town).
I added your TX data to my list
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 09:11 — user1234Dallas Data Wrong..
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 15:50 — Bob_SconceThe Dallas numbers include $727 per student of debt service, which is excluded from the NC numbers.
http://www.dallasisd.org/about/geninfo/budget/200809proBudgetExecutiveSummary.pdf
The corrected number should be 8125.
I suspect that the numbers for Cary Academy have a similar problem -- that tuition has to pay for the buildings as well.
If you include building and
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 15:54 — shearertwIf you include building and construction cost in WCPSS cost/student it runs well over $15,000/student.
WOW.
We should really look into how these budget numbers are compared state to state and state vs private.
That's a worth while comparison.
As we already know, some people like to do funny things with math.
Yeah...
Thu, 06/11/2009 - 09:14 — Bob_SconceAnd, that makes Thales Academy all the more amazing, because with $5,000, they pay for their teachers *and* their building.
It's also a strong argument in favor of Charter schools -- the district gives it the *operating* part of the budget, not the capital part. So, a charter school is significantly less expensive than a traditional public school.
Closer than you think
Thu, 06/11/2009 - 09:51 — user1234The way I compare the numbers is if the state was going to put out a bid, they could choose Cary A. for $16k, Wake for $8k or Thales for $5k/student putting aside capital spending. If Wake would stop growing, much of the capital budget would go away.
What is interesting is if you remove all the high needs kids (e.g. $24k/kid for Special Ed, 14% of Wake, 0% of Thales) from Wake's cost, Wake and Thales costs come closer than you might imagine ($5765 Wake vs. $5000 Thales). Get rid of the cafeteria and transportation for Wake to be more like Thales would put you close to parity. So, if Wake did not have to take in every child who walks through the door, they could more closely compete financially with Thales.
Avg SE %ofPop nonSE %ofPop Avg Cost
$22,564 x 14% + $5,765 x 86% = $8,117
Well...
Thu, 06/11/2009 - 12:26 — Bob_SconceIt's true that new schools account for a sizeable portion of capital spending. But, it also include interest on bonds issued years ago to build schools already in existence and capital improvements at existing Wake schools. The renovations to WF-R, for example, will cost about as much as an entirely new high school.
I think that $22,564 special ed number is way off -- where did it come from? According to the WCPSS budget (p. 159 of the 08-09 budget), the special
education increase is $3,350.81, up to a maximum of 12.5%. By my math,
that's an average non-SE cost of $7797.
That 14% includes any student with an IEP, and the large majority of IEPs are low-needs students. I suspect that these low-needs students aren't going to have issues getting into charter or private schools.
The problem with your table
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 09:14 — shearertwThe problem with your table is that the #'s for Wake are WRONG!
Tell NCDOE
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 14:34 — user1234http://www.ncreportcards.org/src/servlet/srcICreatePDF?pLEACode=920&pYear=2007-2008&pDataType=1
That's last years
Wed, 06/10/2009 - 15:51 — shearertwThat's last years estimates...
2008-2009 is more like $9100/student
they sound like an
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 14:40 — AngelaWthey sound like an organized bunch...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/15/governor-says-texans-want-secede-union-probably-wont/
Win the magnet lottery, get
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 09:41 — KnightdaleParentWin the magnet lottery, get in a great school. Once again, the WCPSS proves that if you put the best students in one school you can get recognized. Why don't we try putting all the best classes in each school and see what we get. That's right, we can't do that because that would make it fair and equitable for all students. And no, I did not say to stop the diversity policy, only that the same options should be available to every student.
I just took the top page of
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 09:32 — user1234I just took the top page of 100 schools and I was tested the theory that the number of schools in the top 100 would be in proportion to the states population.
Florida has the 4th largest population but is first in number of schools which is good for them while California is #1 in population but #3 in number of schools which might mean they are not doing as well.
NC and VA both have similar population ranks and similar number of schools in the top 100 which means they are similar which is what I would expect. Wake has 2 of the 6 which again seems in line with Wakes population in NC.
Interestingly, 24 states don’t have any schools in the top 100 including #6 Pennsylvania and often touted Wisconsin, Minnesota, Connecticut.
Maybe going in all +1000 might show different results.
Thats odd, I thought
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 10:02 — shearertwThats odd, I thought overgrowding was the problem?
I'm willing to bet that Texas has a much larger %F&R than any of the other states you've ranked 1-9. Florida has a pretty high F&R as well. I wonder if you could find another inverse correlation to BLOW UP another of WCPSS false problems.
One of the top school
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 08:10 — shearertwOne of the top school disctricts in the country! We even got 2 HS in the top 100!
Oh, but wait a minute, those two HS are not like ANY of the others. In fact, our "select" HS is ranked 82nd. For those of you who may have graduated from there, there are only 50 states and one of the is Mississippi. Way to go WCPSS!. Top school disctrict in the COUNTY, maybe.
Sour Puss
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 08:57 — user1234Always looking for the bad in things ...
Notice the names imply these are not "ordinary HS" and only Enloe and Charter would be in this league of selective "public" HSs.
=======================================
Talented and Gifted , Science/Engineering Magnet, IBS, Prep, ,Advanced Studies,,International School, ,Academic Magnet, ,Honors ,Advanced Studies,Preparatory and Performing Arts ,Science Academy ,Collegiate ,Academy ,Math & Science Academy,International School,Regional Charter,Academy , Design & Architecture
Nice try.... I suppose you
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 09:13 — shearertwNice try.... I suppose you assumed I wouldn't take the time to check out the list myself. There are plenty of "regular" HS in front of Enloe. Just a few are listed below. I'd also like to point out that my former state TX has 3 in the top 10 (including #'s 1 & 2) and 1 of those has 49% F&R (ranked #2). I wonder if that has anything to do with TX having Independent School Districts?
South Side
Hillsborough
Wootton
Walnut Hills
Bronxville
Washington-Lee
Texas has the second largest
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 09:35 — user1234Texas has the second largest population so should be have the second highest number of schools in the top 100 on average.
3 schools in the top 10 and
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 10:16 — shearertw3 schools in the top 10 and I'm pretty sure Texas doesn't have 30% of the population. And don't forget, a very large % of that population are 1st generation immigrants from Mexico and your dreaded F&R students.
I think WCPSS should spend some money to fly the current BOE (except the ones leaving in Oct) out to Texas to find out exactly how you run a school system.
Raleigh Charter
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 07:32 — hattiecatMy daughter graduated from Raleigh Charter last year and she loved this school so much! The teachers care about the students and will work with the parents in gettting any necessary help the student may need. Wonderful school!
Of course it is wonderful
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 13:19 — designmanIt's wonderful because the focus is on education and achievement rather than the myriad of imbecilic Wake school board policies the rest of us must suffer. Plus, parents are involved ...which the Wake school board tries mightily to contain with its constant reassignments and busing.
Raleigh Charter routinely earns recognition as a great school, but is there anyone talking about replicating their success or incorporating some of their programs and systems into other schools? Nope. All the conversation is saved for debating bus routes and F&R stats. New ideas be damned. Why is that?
I believe with all of my heart that a big part of why so many low-income students in Wake continue to fail at the same rate thay have for decades is because our school policies essentially target them as failures from the first day they step on the school bus for their long ride out of their communities to schools across the county. It is difficult to overcome low expectations. The script is written for these unfortunate children, and they learn to follow it very well. Not only is it a disservice, it is a disgrace.
"Plus, parents are involved
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 13:50 — user1234"Plus, parents are involved ....is difficult to overcome low expectations. The script is written for these unfortunate children, and they learn to follow it very well. Not only is it a disservice, it is a disgrace. "
And there is the problem ... not WCPSS but parents ... if parents are involved in a child's development whether in a charter school, public school or KIPP it makes a difference ... so, how do you make parents be involved?
We have only proven that involved parents in charter and KIPP kids beat the kids of non-involved parents ... we knew that ... if low income kids had involved parents, they would not be targetted for failure ... they would probably not be low income either ... but without an advocate ... the kids with involved parents will move ahead leaving them behind ... should not be a surprise ... the school / bus ride is not really material ...
Well...
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 15:00 — Bob_SconceIf the school is a long way away, then it becomes much more difficult for parents to be involved. That's especially true when the assigned school is well outside of public transportation routes.
I don't know that it's possible to make parents be involved. Maybe the correct solution is contraceptive -- if you can't be a good parent, don't be one at all.
Constant Reassignment
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 14:02 — Chris_Htends to cause parents to become less involved at the school level. They still involved with their own children but tend not become involved in the PTA or volunteering when they are constantly ping ponged all around. It's just human nature unfortunately. Then you start seeing a spiral downward as people pull into the shells and take care of their own family and children....so the very people you expect to help pick up the slack will not be their to help......
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 15:07 — JanisTangoThis is exactly what is happening all over Wake County! Parents are fed up!
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 15:07 — JanisTangoThis is exactly what is happening all over Wake County! Parents are fed up!
EXACTLY RIGHT!
Tue, 06/09/2009 - 16:15 — g88ky07With the reassignment of 200 at our school, that were not replaced, we lost almost all of our PTA and I don't think folks are rushing to their aid in rebuilding. Parents are too busy trying to keep up with the ever changing schedules and figuring out what comes next! Too bad, but blame FYR and a school board that has no clue!