WakeEd

The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? Will the new student assignment plan be a hybrid of the last two models or primarily be a return to the use of busing for diversity? Who will replace Tony Tata as the new superintendent of the state's largest district? How will voters react to a likely request in 2013 to borrow potentially more than $1 billion to build and renovate schools?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

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New Wake County student assignment plan based on proximate student assignments

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More to come later, but a few more details are emerging about Wake County's new draft student assignment plan.

An outline of the plan presented to board members shows that attendance lines were drawn for the 2013-14 school year so that "base assignments will be made at one of their proximate schools to the extent possible."

Staff says that when drawing up attendance lines they took into account student achievement to make schools representative of the students now attending. Schools that are 10 percentage points below the district's average performance composite would get additional resources.

The plan would grandfather all current students until they complete the grade span of their current school. They'd keep their bus service unless they're reassigned to a newly opening school, where they could still choose to grandfather but have to provide their own transportation.

There's also countywide open enrollment period, after the magnet application period, where families could apply to attend any school in the district that has space. Transportation would be provided to only some choices.

UPDATE

Click here for the online story.

For those who don't want to wait until Tuesday morning, click here for a summary of the plan that was provided to school board members.

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some thoughts

I do think it is important to provide more incentive (in the form of transportation in this case) to get people to go to newly opened schools. I don't see how we can argue to the CC and to the people of Wake County that the schools needs a multi-million dollar bond to build new schools when they will sit more than half-empty for years because no one will volunteer to change schools. It is a waste of resources to operate a school like Rolesville Middle or Richland so underenrolled when other schools are paying the price through overcrowding.

That being said, this new plan, like the one before it will be plagued with problems because there simply isn't enough excess capacity in the system to provide meaningful choices. This year the whole county has basically gone through some of the challenges that magnet parents have lived with for years, but magnified. The uncertainty and disappointment of not being able to get into the school one really wants because there simply isn't room, and the transportation craziness that comes from going to school far away from home, such as having more than one school on a bus, and long rides as the bus goes through many neighborhoods picking up a few kids here and there until it is full.

Tata had said that he thought that as the choice plan was in effect for many years people would revert to schools closer to their homes and the bussing would be less complex and costly. But, I think our experience this summer proves this wouldn't happen because newcomers end up being stashed whever there is room, perpetuating the same bus routes that are currently in place.

I don't get this at all --

I don't get this at all -- this is a "base schools" plan where you have a guaranteed spot at a particular school based on address (at least that is what we were expecting), but actually, it's not that at all, because even your base school can be capped -- leaving you without a spot there? How is that different from the choice plan except with even less choice?

Well

let's think this through...are they saying that you'll have a base...as well as a choice of other schools (if your base is capped?) And if you don't get the base because it's capped - you'll get one of the others? Because essentially, isn't that what they did THIS year? You had ONE shot - your first choice - in a list that they gave you. Then you had a lottery for the others. Well, for many, the first choice was already full and the school board knew it. So what makes this different

caps

We've had enrollment caps for many years, no matter the assignment scheme. Under this scheme (if I understand it correctly) it sounds like if the base is capped, you'd be given a different base along with the choice everyone gets to enroll in another school in the Open Enrollment period. Under the current plan, it is relatively clear which schools are overenrolled, but not clear at what point they will stop allowing kids to enroll. Thus there were people who decided to rank a school higher on their list thinking it had more room than a more proximate or more desireable school, only to find out later that the school system opened up seats in a school that looked as if it should be capped. At least there is a little more transparency if the school is officially capped right from the start.

There may have been

There may have been enrollment caps, but were there the following:

 

1 - Students allowed to apply for any open seats from anywhere in the county

2 - grandfathering from a previous plan where students are coming in from many miles away (potentially)

3 - people allowed to move anywhere else in the county and keep their spot at the current school?

There is no way that enrollment caps will not be more of an issue with this plan than in previous years.

yes

Actually I think all of those things are theoretically possible in the current plan, and certainly there are schools that are capped in practice even if they don't use that terminology. Think of all the families this summer who were told there was no room at most of their proximate choices and there was only one choice that had room. Isn't that a cap?

Either way, I think caps will be an issue with this plan, just as overcrowded schools caused issues this year and in the years before. Our capacity problems are just hard to deal with no matter the particulars of the plan.

BINGO!

The problem you describe is exactly what will alienate many thousands more from the wcpss.  There will be many schools capped and just like this plan, your choice will end up being 3, 4, 5 ... down the line.

Only problem with that, you won't actually get a choice next time! 

Martin & Evans will decide where you go!

Exactly! LOL You are too

Exactly! LOL You are too smart for this blog.

Asking the question for the 100th time

and at some point I'd love an answer from the BOE - You want to be able to assign low performing children to high performing schools, but WHO ARE THE CHILDREN WHO ARE "HIGH PERFORMING" IN THOSE HIGH PERFORMING SCHOOLS?  Which demographic group?

They constantly talk about healthy schools - for whom are those schools healthy? Are they healthy for ALL children? Or only a certain demographic group?

Bottom line, a healthy school is NOT a school with the right mix of black and white, rich and poor. It is a school where ALL children are learning.

For sure we had tremendous academic growth under Tata's leadership and our weakest schools for ED and minority children were held accountable - for the first time ever - for teaching all children. Even Hunter made growth in our most vulnerable subgroups - and Hunter has been eating ED kids for years. My concern is that if we go back to focusing on the size of a child's house and the amount of $ in their parent's wallet that we will loose all the tremendous growth we have made as a county.

Excellent point

The idea of "Healthy Schools" is poorly defined -- there's no way to look at any particular school and decide whether it's healthy or not.  Instead, it's a phrase that means whatever the person using it wants it to mean, and then uses to beat back any criticism.

The old diversity policy was famous for taking poor kids and busing them to distant schools in affluent neighborhoods where those kids performed WORSE than they did at their old school.  That's a bizarre definition of healthy.

...

Keung,

There are some comments from Board members about not releasing the maps related to the plan. Is that possible? Aren't they public information?

Also, do you know when/if they will put an address search function online for this? I assume after today's presentation?

There's a difference between

There's a difference between being public and having to post the information online. For instance, the handouts given to board members for the meetings are all public documents. But that doesn't mean Wake has to post all the information online. The same with the maps. It's public when it's presented today so anyone can request the information. It doesn't automatically mean Wake has to post the maps on the web.

As for the online lookup feature, it's ready to go. Staff will ask the board today when they can post it online.

So pretty much, new

So pretty much, new kindergartners are guaranteed their base school. Older siblings can go to their base if there is room for them. But if your school is over capacity as it is, chances are there won't be room. So, you could have kids in two different schools?

...

Oh my. Read the Summary of Written Board Comments. Last few pages of the PDF.

Wow! Quite eye opening.

Wow! Quite eye opening. Not surprising but eye opening. This BOE will ultimately take what is a reasonable plan developed by the staff and take it right back to 2007.

Keung--Missing pages?

Keung, seems like there may be some pages missing from the handout? The last page cuts off comment from one of the board members. Also, there are no comments from any board members except Martin, Evans & Kushner. Are there pages missing?

That's all the pages I've

That's all the pages I've got on the comments. It was in the board packet sent to members so it became a public document.

Uuu, Uuu, Uuu, I know why

because Martin, Evans and Kushner are the only ones allowed to have input from here forward.  This is THEIR plan.  Even Hill doesn't know what to think, or do, what's new right, as he was in total shock that Haydon was canned today.  Maybe he was just sleeping.  Again.

Good grief

I cannot believe that they are going to make Underwood, Wiley & Joyner Group 3 magnets with 80% base. Those schools are already basically private schools for the affluent who can afford to live in those base areas. Now it will be even worse. The rest of us will be paying for those areas to have incredible extras at their schools & then a lucky few in other areas will be allowed to attend. This is BS.

opportunity

The locations of those 3 magnet schools make them great candidates to receive students from southeast Raleigh, who may be displaced from their most proximate magnet schools.  Looks like a win-win to me.  The displaced students still go to a magnet school, and if you look at a map with the locations of the 3 schools mentioned, the distance is very reasonable.  To have magnet schools in southeast Raleigh, some neighborhood students must attend elsewhere.  I hope this is one of the solutions!

Maybe the base will be different?

The only justification I can think of would be that maybe the base assignment areas will different from what they have been in the past so that the base might be less affluent than what we expect to see?

They do say that they will

They do say that they will give them more nodes from 'downtown'. But why do they still need to be magnets? Or why do all 3 still need to be magnets?

The magnets are supposed to fulfill at least one of three goals: 1) reduce minority isolation 2) help fill underenrolled schools 3) provide expanded academic opportunities. These 3 schools meet none of these goals. They are reducing academic opportunities for the county if they reduce the percentage of magnet students from about 50% to 20%.

We only have so much money to go around and spending any of it on what are essentially private magnets for affluent neighborhoods in Raleigh isn't a good use of that money.

Are you sure you're paying

Are you sure you're paying for the extras in those schools? Or maybe those affluent people who can afford to buy properties in that area are paying more than you (and a lot of others) in real estate taxes every year that pays for the extras at these schools? You can't be a free loader all your life. If you want extras in your school, pay more taxes! Or else, stop whining!!

Yes, we are all paying for

Yes, we are all paying for those schools to get their extras. That is money that is siphoned off from the rest of the schools in the school system.

Question

Isn't it true that any school not receiving any enrichments is having money syphoned off to pay for those schools which are receiving enrichments, whether magnet or STEM or other program?   We've moved more schools to the "have" column but there are still quite a number of schools in the "have not" column.

Also, if the affluence of the surrounding neighborhoods is a criteria for having enrichments, does that suggest that schools located in affluent areas should not have enrichments?  How do you address the contention of those in more affluent, often peripheral geographic county, areas who want enrichments in their schools?

Or are we back to the idea that there needs to be a base standard of education and then an overarching plan for distributing enrichments that is equitable across the county but may leave some children underserved?

Yes, I would say that all

Yes, I would say that all extra programs are siphoning off money from other schools. And I'm not comfortable with how they have done the STEM and Global schools without an overarching plan. I agree that we are setting up a system of have and have nots when it comes to enrichment. Why not Baileywick? Why not Wildwood Forest?

I think we need to raise the base level that is offered in every school and then have magnets or other special programs that are truly unique and available to all students equally. Or in the case of AG middle schools--take the kids who are very strong in both subjects first, no matter what node they live in.

I definitely do not believe that affluent areas should have magnet schools as their base. As for enrichments, I think that should come in the form of the baseline education. Some of these things we are talking about as enrichments should just be part of the curriculum in my opinion. All of our students should be getting these opportunities--band in 4th & 5th grade, meaningful foreign language instruction in elem and middle school, and more than 1 elective period in middle school are examples of things I'd like to see. Then if we want to offer magnet programs on top of that, make sure that the seats are given out in a true lottery.

Those are just thoughts off the top of my head. You pose very important questions--ones that have been ignored for years. We've got to have a comprehensive plan and vision for what our schools should be. Right now all we are doing is putting bandaids here and there and completely ignoring some areas and schools.

And this is the quagmire

And this is the quagmire that is WCPSS.

 

First, the system is far too large and diverse to allow “equitable” programs to be evenly distributed across the county.  The system is so large, in fact, that no one could possibly agree on what is even “equitable”.  Heck, I’m not even sure we could agree on the definition of “enrichment”.  For a school in an affluent area, they may want 3 Chinese teachers and 30 AP courses, band, orchestra, etc.  In a low income area, perhaps its better teachers or lower class sizes or both!  Both “enrichments” cost money and both pull from the same pot of limited resources.  It’s a very difficult problem because everyone wants their child to have the best possible education and they are NOT SELFISH in demanding that.

So what to do?  Unfortunately, the magnet program operates on a model that requires some schools to less desirable so the magnets are “attractive”, hence the name magnet.  That is simply a bad model.  We shouldn’t be limiting programs in some schools so the magnets look better.  A better model would be to have the county distribute funds to regional districts weighting the amount of funds based on economic parameters such as “tax base” or number % ED or something.  Then I’d leave it up to the regional Sups and the principals to distribute the funds to the schools however they see fit…perhaps lower class sizes here, perhaps a few more AP programs there, perhaps a special program over there...

Better still would be a model where the schools were linked to municipalities and those municipalities could choose to increase funding for schools through taxes to supplement the money they get from the county.  If you want your local HS’s to have 30 AP courses, fine, you pay for them.

**And yes, I'm aware that this is not possible in WC because of the wacky State regulations over how we can operate OUR school system.

why the state has the "wacky regulations"

You do remember why the state implemented county-wide school districts in the first place, I'm sure.   Because what you're describing wasn't working due to broad disparaties in per capita income of the residents of various municipalities creating poor inner city schools surrounded by affluent "county" schools.

What was the intent of county-wide districts?

What was the actual intent and hoped for outcome of county-wide districts generally? Was the thought that both "inner city" and "county" being in one district would allow for students from "poor inner city schools" to be assigned to affluent "county" schools or was the thought more toward having a shared property tax base?

I'm wondering because from a funding perspective, it seems that once the state had created "county" districts then rather than thinking in terms of disparities between "inner city" districts and "county" districts within certain counties, they simply moved to thinking in terms of disparities between the newly-created county districts by implementing "low-wealth county" and "small county" supplemental funds. Some counties in NC are receiving around $3,000 per student in supplemental funds. It seems the same mechanism for funding could be accomplished at a "low-wealth district" and "small district" level regardless if the district in question represented only a portion of a county rather than a county as a whole. In fact, in thinking through it, it seems the "low-wealth" areas sharing a county with affluent areas may be getting short-changed because they lose out on supplemental funding from the state (as their "low-wealth" is averaged with the "high-wealth" areas in the county, resulting in not qualifying for "low-wealth" status for the county as a whole). Instead they have to rely on hoping the now county-wide district distributes its local funding equitably across the county-sized district. I think you may agree that it's unclear that wcpss has been successful in funding equitably across the district. 

I also looked at funding from where I moved "up North". That state has about 800 districts. Local funding is voted upon directly by the voters. I looked at the funding for the lowest-wealth district in one county where I lived (65% FRL) and most affluent district (22% FRL) in that county. Interestingly, local per student revenues were about the same for the lowest-wealth district and the most affluent district. Plus, the lowest-wealth receives significantly more in state and especially federal funding per student (the federal difference per student was about $1,200 per student). Again, because funding mechanisms have developed over time to supplement "lower-wealth" districts.

Therefore while I can appreciate the origins of them, I'm wondering if given the way funding allotments have changed/developed over time if county-wide districts remain necessary and advantageous? Also based on looking at districts where I'd lived, it's not clear to me that there is an automatic cause and effect relationship between the "wealth" of an area and level of local funding for education. Not only is the 65% FRL district where I used to live keeping pace with the affluent district there in terms of local revenue per student, it's outpacing Wake County. The same scenerio holds for where I lived prior to that where current median household income is <$40K - it's also outpacing Wake in terms of local funding in actual dollars. Then, if you think about it in terms of percentage of income local populations are putting toward supporting their local schools, they are well outpacing Wake.

Did you even read what I

Did you even read what I wrote regarding distribution of county funds?  That would mean poorer areas actually would see an increase in funding from current levels.  If places like Cary end up going beyond that because their residents are willing to pay for it, why is that a problem?  Perhaps you just prefer to ensure that education is mediocre for everyone.

..

You try way too hard to paint everyone who doesn't 100% echo your beliefs as the illogical one.  As always, you attempt to read far too much into a brief reminder of what led to each county being a school district and then wrote a paragraph based on your missassumptions.   YOU're the one using the word mediocre.   It might be that mediocre is the best WCPSS ever achieves.  I continue to hope to find a way to do better than that but with an eye towards what has and has not worked in the past and an eye for what new ideas could contribute in future.    The issue with what you wrote relates to who gets to decide the magic number for how much each % point of ED is worth out of the budget.   And would affluent parents in the burbs (or ITB) either be willing to fund it or be able to make up the difference for their proximal schools.

Ideally, the BOE would

Ideally, the BOE would decide how much money each %ED would be worth but the BOE would also look much different than it does right now. First, there would be 5 districts each with one BOE rep. The remaining 4 BOE members would be elected at large. Such a more representative BOE makeup could then also be trusted with taxing authority.

Now, you've been on this blog a long time and you've done a lot of talking. I can honestly say I have never seen you propose one new, novel solution to improve WCPSS beyond the mediocre system it is right now. Until communities and parents are given more power and authority over the system, mediocre is all we'll ever achieve.

Whoa now! I'm paying plenty

Whoa now! I'm paying plenty in taxes...likely as much as many of those people. I chose not to live there for a variety of other reasons. There is no reason those schools should be getting any more extras than my kid's schools.

So... I'm sure I'm paying

So... I'm sure I'm paying for those extras.

What happens

To the wake county school assignment slip of paper that was sent home to the students in June that had their assigned high school for 2013-2014?  Does this change again?  Does this mean we get another assignment?  Are we just going to keep being bounced around like we have for the last 10 years!!!

assignment slip

Check that assignment slip from the spring again. It wasn't for the 2013-2014 year, it was confirmation for the 2012-13 year.

Nope

Was for the 2013-2014, because that is my kids first year of high school, which this listed in Black and White/Blue.

You move again!

Yes, that is what happens!  What ever you were told last year, this year, it's all toast.  At least that will be the case for thousands upon thousands.

Pucker up tax payers and parents, The Martin & Evans Show is about to debut what they are really all about.

But remember, what ever they do, forget about that and just pass the bond.  They'll work with you!!

so whatever you're mad about

Be factual. You can finish at your current school, though you might have to provide transportation. They are honoring the feeder patterns presented last year with transportation. It would be a fascinating exercise to read the proposal, listen to staff explain it and then shoot it down instead of doing it all in reverse.

...

Well, I have to sort of agree with FS. The chances that this is approved as currently outlined is slim. Heck, one of Evans' comments is to go back to the 2011-12 assignments - and she wants to remove parental choice from low-achieving areas.

my point is

Don't be an alarmist. The plan, as outlined here, responds to the issues described above. Now after all the politicking is done, who knows what it will look like. But reasonable debate requires reasonable folks to use the facts, not supposition about what the board might do with this.

An alarmist? Try again.

I call it a realist!

Started stocking up on duct tape and screen, because this new NEW plan is loaded with holes and you'll need a bunch of both to catch all that's going to fall through the holes this time around.

uh huh

MORE holes or less holes than the last attempt at this? And just so I'm clear..."holes" in the context of this board seems to mean any part of the plan that the poster does not like...right?  (I'm really just poking the bear - but you guys make it so easy).

Holes?

Ask Sam.

...

FS isn't an alarmist. Sure, he has some "flavor" in his posts but he mostly hits the mark. Just read the Board comments in the PDF and you'll better understand.

No one needs to be an

No one needs to be an alarmist...the comments are alarming enough all by themselves. I can see why the were cut short.

the plan

Honors the feeder patterns with transportation.

This is an outline for a

This is an outline for a good plan, IMO.

Dan, Did you read the

Dan,

Did you read the comments section? Now do you see who these people really are?

A reasonable plan....you and I both agree. All they (Evans, Martin and Kuschner can do is talk about going back to policy 6200!

Well, there are no comments

Well, there are no comments from Sutton or Hill, and either of those two could get it passed as-is.

If they go back to the old 6200, then the new members will be one-and-done just like the Fuquay commissioners that just voted to cripple the FVAA a few weeks ago.

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.
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