There's a healthy dose of skepticism among members of the Wake County school board majority to the idea that abandoning Forest Ridge High would cost $15.5 million.
As noted in today's article, administrators said switching sites now would push the opening back form 2012 to 2014. This two-year delay would lead to $10 million in classroom trailer costs, $4 million in inflated construction costs and $1.5 million in redesign work.
Unlike the old board, new board members are taking the staff info with more reservations.
"When they say it will cost $15 million more, I’ll believe it when I see it,” said school board member Chris Malone, chairman of the facilities committee, in the article,
School board vice chairwoman Debra Goldman wondered whether administrators are using “scare tactics” to discourage scrapping the problem-plagued Forest Ridge project. She noted how staff had uderestimated the cost for road work and water and sewer improvements for Forest Ridge by nearly $6 million.
She also noted how a recent report from a task force that recommended staying the course with the current Forest Ridge site overestimated the cost of one of the Rolesville alternatives by $1.36 million. Rolesville Mayor Frank Eagles had turned out to be right when he said the group had not factored in the presence of a sewer line on one of the parcels.
The big question is how much would it cost for trailers to deal with overcrowding caused by delaying the high school. More units would be needed at Knightdale High while Wake Forest-Rolesville and Wakefield high schools would keep their ninth-grade centers until the high school is built.
Keeping those ninth-grade centers in use for the high schools means they couldn't be used to early start elementary schools. Additional trailers would have to be brought in somewhere to deal with elementary school overcrowding.
Eagles suggested that the board consider housing high school students temporarily at the new Rolesville Middle School. But Asst. Supt. Chuck Dulaney said they need Rolesville Middle to open in 2013 to deal with crowding at Heritage and Wake Forest-Rolesville middle schools.
Comments
Mr. Hui, where did the Leesville
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 14:19 — g88ky07moving forward with traditional post go?
I'm finally seeing the
Mon, 02/15/2010 - 23:48 — KeungHui (author)I'm finally seeing the message now. It never disappeared. Just keep in mind that when I'm blogging at a quicker rate that stuff will jump off the front page. You'll just have to scroll for it on one of the other page. Click the view previous wakeed posts option. The odd thing is that when you click it it jumps back to skips back further than the last 10 posts. Just change the url up top from view page 2 to page 1 to get the 10 most recent after the ones on the main page.
Here..
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 14:26 — Bob_Sconcehttp://blogs.newsobserver.com/wakeed/pushing-ahead-to-make-leesville-campus-traditional
It appears to have somehow fallen off the list.
Every town needs a high school.
Thu, 02/11/2010 - 22:01 — ChiefEaglesIt brings a town and the surrounding community together. It causes strong support for the hgh school and its activities. Makes strong support groups for that high school. It gives the high school identy.
"He is just making a rational decision.
Good that his motives are only rational ... I thought he might be doing it for political gain for his city..."
Political gain?????? You are not worth the energy to argue with.
But does every school need a town?
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 17:15 — user12345"It brings a town and the surrounding community together. It causes strong support for the hgh school and its activities. Makes strong support groups for that high school. It gives the high school identy. "
I am not sure that being linked to a town affects student performance which should be one of our prime goals ... look at the schools in Garner ... I understand that Rolesville needs a school to complete it's image of what a town should look like but I don't think the taxpayers of Wake should have to pay a premium for that to happen .... since Wake is paying for the school, it should be placed where is will first do what the WCPSS need first at a good value to taxpayers.
since Wake is paying for the
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 17:41 — red_balloonsince Wake is paying for the school
Since Rolesville is part of Wake, why can't Rolesville want a HS? It can't be that the same segments of Wake have a greater voice because if that is the case it looks like some in WW can't get a divorce fast enough from WCPSS.
"Since Rolesville is part of
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 18:10 — user12345"Since Rolesville is part of Wake, why can't Rolesville want a HS? "
No problem wanting a HS ... the problem is when someone else is paying for it you have to live by their rules .. so find the best loacation and if not in Rolesville, Rolesville could pay any additonal costs to locate the HS in their town ... that would be fair .... no impact to the Wake taxpayers ...
I am confused. Is Rolesville
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 18:14 — red_balloonI am confused. Is Rolesville part of Wake? I am assuming the answer is a yes. If that is the case, and given you state "when someone else is paying for it you have to live by their rules" would you be opposed to WW dictating what EW schools should be like?
"I am confused. Is
Sat, 02/13/2010 - 11:10 — user12345"I am confused. Is Rolesville part of Wake? I am assuming the answer is a yes. If that is the case, and given you state "when someone else is paying for it you have to live by their rules" would you be opposed to WW dictating what EW schools should be like?"
Yes Rolesville is part of Wake and should get their 2% vote in line with their tax contributions. The other 98% of Wake is looking for value not enhancing Rolesville' image.
This raises good points. I
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 17:19 — carson79This raises good points. I think that if people think that diversity or good performing schools across the county is not something to care about - they should not care about a high school's "identity" either.
So, it makes sense to you
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 17:39 — woodstockSo, it makes sense to you that a school that is supposed to serve Rolesville and Wake Forest is in neither Rolesville or Wake Forest, but in rather in Raleigh...right next to another existing high school on an already too busy 2-lane road? Okey, dokey.
The best solution is to
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 18:13 — user12345The best solution is to locate it where it is needed at the best cost to the taxpayer and than worry about if it has a Raleigh or Roleville mailing address.
Why did the Town of
Thu, 02/11/2010 - 23:51 — my3centsWhy did the Town of Rolesville not tell the county committee looking at sites about the sewer on the site the town likes. There were several meetings and nothing was said until the joint meeting.
Never had a chance to tell
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 01:10 — ChiefEaglesNever had a chance to tell them. The numbers were presented at the meeting. The wide range of experts [per the N&O] were mainly WCPSS and their contractors. They never asked the one Rolesville rep. The "leadership" relied on their "experts". Their experts were wrong in this case and other things.
You can look at the list of
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 06:28 — my3centsYou can look at the list of attendees at the committee meetings. They were mostly municipal people, state and county. Not WCPSS. And the Town of Rolesville was there and everyone was asked to provide info they knew on every site. Then after the cost were calculated they were brought together again to verify the costs. ToR did not say anything. Why not?
The Plot thickens
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 10:07 — shank56Interesting observations. Can't wait for the mayors response.
You are wrong!!!!!!! The
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 10:50 — ChiefEaglesYou are wrong!!!!!!! The "experts" were contractorsfor WCPSS. The sites' concept drawings were full of blue stream errors that were not researched by the "experts". The whole thing was a farce. Waste of tax payers $$$$. The ONE Rolesville rep kept telling them of the Rolesville Rd. site and Ms. Betty Parker [WCPSS] kept saying it was "out". Now she says it was never mentioned [she has a memory problem]. It only was investigated after I forced the issue on Thursday before the joint meeting. The "Experts" [WCPSS contractors] did their thing without me being allowed to give comment until the joint meeting. Why did I not give involved before the joint meeting? I was politely asked by the Co. Manager to not get involved until the joint meeting.
[Observaion: you know so much, you must be part of the "problem"]
As I said, not worth the energy to argue. BYE BYE
The slide show that was
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 13:23 — newboard9The slide show that was passed out shows your rep was there and that there were reps from all the local state, county and city departments. The site was on the list then and was being discussed. Apparently your rep did not say anything. Why didn't your rep say something in the meeting? My3cents is not argueing with you, he/she is just asking a question that you have not answered. Now you are refusing to discuss any further. Why is that?
Can you say something to
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 11:57 — carson79Can you say something to prove you are the Mayor of Rolesville?
wow
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 10:59 — supportwcpssIs this really the mayor of a town in Wake County? Has to be an imposter...
Really!
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 11:26 — shank56Sounds like Barney Fyfe is now the mayor.
Its time the School Board ran the Staff and not the reverse
Thu, 02/11/2010 - 10:04 — ChiefEaglesI have never seen so many "misrepresentations" by a group of supposedly educated people. The staff is so full if "it". They need to add so many mobiles to Knightdale [????] including a cafeteria unit and admisistrative unit. Come on now!!!! Get over it staff. Admit you picked a poor site and get over it. Wait a minute. Admit your real-estate broker picked a bad site and you paid him his % for his mistake [your $$$$].
Along the lines of real-estate brokers finding property for WCPSS. The Mayors of Wake Co. told Rosa Gil, when she was chair, come to us and we will find you excellent school sites where the people want them at a good price. We've been ignored until now.
The new School Board members are listening to the people. Chirs Malone is listening. Debra Goldman [from Cary] has visited the sites [Forestvbille Rd., Neuse Baptist and Shearon/Byrum sites] several times. This is a new thing [but welcomed] and staff does not know how to handle this. I say to the new members, "Go gang."
Frank Eagles, Mayor of Rolesville
[BTW: I'm a registered Democrat so don't start this Republican VS Democrat thing]
"poor site" it is closer
Thu, 02/11/2010 - 23:54 — my3cents"poor site"
it is closer to the students and it cost less than the sites in rolesville. the rolesville sites are the poor sites.
Huh?
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 09:37 — Bob_SconceYour geography doesn't work. The Forestville Rd site is very close to Heritage HS. This means that the Forestville Rd. site has to be on the boundary of its assignment zone. Any move closer to the center of the H6 assignment area would shorten the total distance driven by its students.
According to the powerpoint
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 13:26 — newboard9According to the powerpoint handout the current site is almost dead center of the target circle that is based on expected crowding or student totals. One of the proposed sites is more than a mile outside the original circle. So how is that not further away?
Link?
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 14:14 — Bob_SconceI don't know what powerpoint handout you're talking about -- do you have a link to it?
If it says what I think you're saying, then it sounds like either Heritage HS would be in H6's assignment zone or H6 would be in Heritage's assignment zone due to proximity.
In any case, the assignment zone would probably change depending on where the school is placed. You can't say "These schools aren't in a good place for the H6 assignment zone" if the H6 assignment zone was predicated on a certain location for the school.
Another school board member
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 09:19 — changewcpssAnother school board member who campaigned with an issue and is following through. Kudos C Malone!
WFRHS @Heritage
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 09:10 — mommy59If you are going to talk about the schools get your facts right.Right now there are only 3 grades at the Heritage site.10-12,the 9th graders are at the 9th grade center that WFRHS has been using for the past 3 years.Also there are not even 3,000 total at WFRHS with all 4 grades.The website states 1949 so there is probably close to 2,000 now.
I think at times it may seem like 3,000 at Heritage because the traffic is horrendous.They need a red light just for safety reasons.
The saddest thing is the new high school will only hold 1600 and the rennovated building hold 2,300.They should have built Heritage for more so no trailers will ever have to be put up there or a 9th grade center not on the same campus.
Heh...
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 09:08 — Bob_SconceSo, they don't really need to acquire classroom trailers. There are a bunch of unused ones Wakefield ES (which aren't even going to be used if it's converted to a traditional calendar -- every WES class already has its own classroom!)
My thoughts exactly, Bob!
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 15:21 — jenmanMy thoughts exactly, Bob!
You refer to the eight
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 09:45 — red_balloonYou refer to the eight mothballed trailers? I assume an ES trailer is the same as a HS trailer and that the $10 m estimate took into account these trailers.
Hmm...
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 11:44 — Bob_SconceThose are the ones. I make no such assumption -- I think the staff was trying to give the largest number it could, which probably included buying new trailers.
Bob, I believe you are
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 12:04 — CaryCurmudgeonBob, I believe you are right, staff is just looking to inflate the number any way they can. WCPSS estimates that it costs $50K to relocate a trailer. Even if they do need trailers to bridge the two year gap, then the incremental cost to the system is $400K, because those trailers can be used at another school once H6 is open. But, really, how many schools do we have in Wake County that don't have trailers anyway?
This is where the new board majority should be exerting their authority over the superintendent. When Del's staff does stuff like this to undermine the board, he should be getting held accountable.
What is the motivation?
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 13:03 — user12345What is the motivation? Does the staff own property at one of the two sites? Why do they care? It is just another building that needs to come on line in time to prevent overcrowding...
No..
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 13:33 — Bob_SconceThey've been pushing the site all along and they're basically stuck in their position. You can see this same "circle the wagons" attitude in all the battles between the district and the county commissioners over land purchases for schools.
Unfortunately, the staff isn't neutral -- the administration has its own agenda, and is frustrated that the school board is no longer carrying out the administration's policy preferences.
Well Said!
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 11:04 — cbuckmasBob, I believe you hit the nail on the head. I have to believe, that there is a mentality that goes something like this, We said this was the best site, now if we change our postion, we look bad.
I say kudos to the new School Board members. They are listening to the staff but also using their own good judgment. This is a new thing for WCPSS and a welcome change. I also will say that the new Board members are fulfilling their campaign promises. Way to go and thank you!
Those are great questions
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 13:12 — woodstockThose are great questions that I would love to hear answers to.
Those are great questions
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 16:13 — user12345Those are great questions that I would love to hear answers to
I agree Woodstock.... seems crazy that normal government employees would be involved in some major conspiracy to push one site over another becasue of thier undying loyalty to some old board members ... there are too many people involved and too many eyes on the project to make up such large differences in costs ... I am more suspicious of the financial motives of Rolesville Mayor Frank Eagles and Chris Malone than some government bureaucrats...
Cart.. Horse...
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 10:52 — Bob_SconceI think it has a lot to do with their own policy preferences, their own power silos and saving their own faces. The administration is used to the board implementing the administration's own policy preferences and that has changed dramatically. So, the administration is trying to consolidate its power and trying to make the current board look bad in hopes that voters will put in a new board that will, again, implement the administration's preferences.
In this case, the administration recommended this particular site and defended it repeatedly and vigorously. Moving away from that site would be a defeat for the administration.
There are other examples -- my favorite is Chuck Dulaney's defense of Wakefield ES as a year-round school, despite overwhelming evidence that it doesn't make sense.
What are CHuck's reasons for
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 11:30 — jenmanWhat are CHuck's reasons for wanting to keep WES as year round?
No need to be
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 16:41 — woodstockNo need to be so disengenuous. You know as well as I do that there are administrators and staff who are dedicated to flawed status quo ideals and will fight the new BoE at every opportunity. Burns needs to nip that in the bud ASAP or risk being on the chopping block.
As for Eagles, he sees the idiocy of building a 2nd high school within 2 miles of an existing high school on an already busy 2-lane road. He is just making a rational decision.
Folks, this school was
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 11:57 — cbuckmasFolks, this school was designated to be for Wake Forest and Rolesville from the very beginning. The site that has caused so much contiversary is in the city limits or Raleigh. How does that make sense?
Why wasn't that the argument
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 13:16 — shank56Why wasn't that the argument to begin with? It was first about a slave cemetary, then the cost of rock blasting and then traffic, IIRC.
I think traffic was the
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 14:00 — jenmanI think traffic was the first argument, then the slave cemetery. Not trying to be nitpicky, just pointing out that the traffic issue has been there from the beginning. Its going to be a mess, actually a bigger mess.
Yes, that is even a better
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 12:41 — woodstockYes, that is even a better example of the rationality behind the decision to scrap this site and move on to something that does make sense.
Busable rim?
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 12:37 — jenmanBusable rim?
I see the risk being on the
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 17:57 — user12345I see the risk being on the new BOE ... they have already added to the legal fees, increased the site cost for a new HS and had the survey backfire on them ... they are on the run ... Burns just needs to give these guys enough string to hang themselves and he needs to do is make sure the BOE gets all the responsibility for this decision ... if their decisions save money, they will be heroes and if they lose more money they will be put out. Burns just needs to make sure the results blow back on the new members.
He <Eagles> is just making a rational decision.
Good that his motives are only rational ... I thought he might be doing it for political gain for his city...
LOL I don't think you even
Thu, 02/11/2010 - 23:08 — woodstockLOL I don't think you even believe your own silly rhetoric.
What survey backfired?
Who's on the run?
Who added legal costs? (Do you mean the long overdue audit of a firm that has been in-place for 30 years?)
Lots of question ...
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 09:55 — user12345Lots of question ... having a hard time keeping up?
Nope, but you sure seem to
Fri, 02/12/2010 - 10:07 — woodstockNope, but you sure seem to be.