WakeEd

The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? Will the new student assignment plan be a hybrid of the last two models or primarily be a return to the use of busing for diversity? Who will replace Tony Tata as the new superintendent of the state's largest district? How will voters react to a likely request in 2013 to borrow potentially more than $1 billion to build and renovate schools?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

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NAACP engaging in protest at Wake school board meeting

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Look for the state NAACP to speak out at today's Wake County school board meeting.

In a news advisory sent this afternoon, the group said "leaders within NC NAACP will continue to speak out against Wake County’s anti-diversity caucus of the Wake County School Board ending socio-economic diversity policy, setting a course for resegregation of its public schools.

The public comment section starts at 4 p.m.

UPDATE

With all the speakers on agenda items done at 4:42 p.m., Margiotta called for a recess and said he'd resume public comment after employee awards scheduled for 5 p.m. were given.

Coincidentally or not, the next group of speakers were from the NAACP. The Rev. William Barber, presidnet of the state NAACP, objected to the recess, saying they would refuse to give up the podium until they spoke.

Only John Tedesco, Keith Sutton, Carolyn Morrison and Anne McLaurin are in the room hearing the speakers. The others are out on recess.

The meeting has resumed a little after 5 p.m. with Margiotta saying he's pushed back the awards ceremony for the NAACP speakers to talk.

Tim Tyson is talking past his two minutes. He's refusing to stop. Barber is backing Tyson and arrests could be coming soon.

“The anti-diversity members of this school board wipe their feet on our ancestors,” Barber said.

Barber said they’re willing to accepted being locked up for peforming their “spiritual witness in a non-violent act of conscience.

“We are willing to break a lesser law and accept our punishment to defend a larger law,” he said.

At 5:28 p.m., Margiotta called for a closed session. About 20 people are singing various civil rights songs. Barber warned they were not going to leave the building as  the board walked out.

The protesters have taken over the seats of the board members and are holding their own mock meeting as they ask for speakers from the public to come up to the podium.

Click here to read the NAACP press release on the protest.

At 6:06 p.m., no arrests yet but that's because there are no police in the building yet. It looks like the NAACP protest caught the district off guard or else the normal contingent of four off-duty cops would have been here already.

At 6:17 p.m., the police are now downstairs. We'll see how much longer it lasts.

At 6:20 p.m., Margiotta asked them to leave. When they said no, they were arrested and charged with trespassing. Three were quickly taken away.

After a wait for an ambulance because of Barber's size, he was transported to the Wake County jail to join the other three protesters.

In addition to Barber and Tyson,  Pullen Memorial Baptist Church minister Nancy Petty and activist Mary Williams were also arrested.

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margiotta handled it well

Barber was begging to be arrested and continued to get more and more belligerent until there was no option left but to have him removed. I hope his stock with his followers fared as well as the stock market today. It would be a shame for his 'sacrifice' to pay no dividends.

nauseating

Mary Williams has a son in Enloe while Petty has kids in Ligon and Enloe. Today's fracas doesn't appear to be about diversity. Try magnets vs. non-magnets.

Yes, interesting how so many

Yes, interesting how so many people who were well-connected with the old WCPSS leadership managed to "win" the lottery and get their kids into the magnet program.

FWIW

I may be wrong, but I think Ms. Williams lives in the base assignment area for Enloe, so she is not a lottery winner.  FWIW

base

I'm pretty sure that Nancy Petty lives in the base for Ligon and Enloe as well.

I thought she lived near

I thought she lived near Cameron Village. 

Keung--?

Is this Tim Tyson the same gentleman involved in the Duke LaCrosse case as per google search references?

Yes Dr. ActualFactual, he

Yes Dr. ActualFactual, he is.  I did some reading after I saw this statement from you.  That horrified me that he had a connection to the the Duke LAX case....the HOAX of a lifetime. This Tyson guy is BAD NEWS and anyone standing up there along with him last night, should be embarrassed and humiliated that they were even near him.  I just don't get how stupid people are when they get wrapped up in some "publicity stunt" that is being taped and surely to get some attention from the media.  People like him are low, small, and inferior of the general public.  Tyson is simply a publicity prostitute, that provides nothing good for mankind and our society!!!

Who gets to pay for the

Who gets to pay for the ambulance needed to transport Barber?

From Keung's blog: "After a

From Keung's blog:

"After a wait for an ambulance because of Barber's size, he was transported to the Wake County jail to join the other three protesters."

--------------------------

You can't make this stuff up. Fiction's got nothin' on reality.

 

Rude comments

Rude comment, Woodstock.

These blogs are way too dominated by a few repetitive Republican voices: Woodstock, Bob Sconce, CaryCurmudgeon, etc.... It's quite tiresome and unrepresentative of the broader community.  I think there should be a limit to how often  people can post.  Otherwise it just becomes their little soapbox, Mr. Hui. Don't these people have jobs?

OH...commongood..so you

OH...commongood..so you think there should be a limit on the number of times a person should be able to post on the blogs?!?!  Hmmm...trying to be a little dictator aren't you.  You don't say things that I agree with along a bunch of others on the blog, however, I would NEVER see the need or "hint" that rules should be changed simply because YOU don't like what you read.  You are a prime example of what's wrong with out society in this country this day and time.  Just because ONE person or a SMALL group of people don't like what they see or here, they want THEIR own views and opinions to punish the rest of us.  If you can't deal with others views, and others view points, then get off the blog.  I don't agree with everyone and I'll tell people that, but like I said, I'd NEVER come up with the idea to "limit" ones ability to post on a blog.

Rude, eh? Good thing you are

Rude, eh? Good thing you are around to state your opinion on that otherwise I would have just continued to laugh my @$$ off.

The truth is, none of this is funny. It's pathetic and sad. The desperation that Barber sunk to tonight shows just how little he has to offer. The fact is race-baiting rhetoric, pointing fingers and singing is not going to help the black community. When he drops the MLK wannabe act, listens and offers to help rather than incite maybe, MAYBE, he will be a force for positive change. As it is, he's just a undisciplined clown.

Everyone is well aware of

Everyone is well aware of where you stand on just about everything, Woodstock. More posts aren't necessary.

Clearly that is not true.

Clearly that is not true.

I'm not a Republican.  Be

I'm not a Republican.  Be careful in your assumption that this board only has Republican support.

Perhaps only N&O subscribers

Perhaps only N&O subscribers should be able to post....

Yes, the advertisers would

Yes, the advertisers would just love that idea.

...

What happened to the Great Schools in Wake members who were locked arm in arm with Barber & Co. singing and praying? Didn't they get a copy of the press release that they were to be arrested?

Well, it will be interesting

Well, it will be interesting to see if there is "perp walk" footage tonight and who is in it!  My guess is all we'll see is a photo of Rev. Barber in cuffs and no one else. 

Maybe it was due to the lack

Maybe it was due to the lack of vegan meal options at the county hoosegow for the "Great Schools" leader.

.

.

Now maybe the board can get

Now maybe the board can get back to business, which is what they were elected to do and they are payed for.  The antics today, did nothing to HELP...that's the sad thing!!!  He now has more air time, which is what he wants...its pretty sad to be that desperate for attention.

Amen to that

Forced busing supporters were bound to have a hard time sustaining enthusiasm for their cause.  Mr. Barber & co. see the same empty seats that we do, and they understand that many folks have moved on.  Today's publicity stunt was just an attempt to rekindle enthusiasm, but I doubt it will be very effective.  And we continue moving forward...

We continue

We continue moving.....

Whether it's forward remains to be seen.*

*Don't take this comment as an endorsement of the NAACP's display.....I don't think that served any real constructive purpose.

Actually Dan, I think it may

Actually Dan, I think it may have served a very constructive purpose. The national press will be all over this story just like they were in the last arrests, Christian Science Monitor, Newsweek, GMA all did spots on the Wake Co Board protests. This helps start a public dialog on a larger level. I will be interested in the nation public perception of this.

I think we agree on most

I think we agree on most things, but I don't really like having WCPSS on the Today Show with NAACP leaders in handcuffs.

In all honesty, I don't think the board members are racists.  I think the assignment policy may lead to some really poor schools, but I don't think it's based in racism.  I just think they are failing to see the entire picture.  Their consituents claim to have all students at heart, but until we actually see the "special resources" at the high poverty schools that will be created in a year or two, I won't believe it.

For example, if Wakefield gets the mini-city kids reassigned to a mini-city area school and at the same time went back to a traditional calendar, I have a hard time believing that Bob_Sconce would be very concerned if their performance faded or improved as long as Wakefield got its proper distinctions back.  I think he'd like for it to improve, but I wonder if he'd actually care if it didn't.

When I think of what the system should do, I don't really think of my kids' situation.  I know my kids will be OK.

Wow...

I spend a couple of hours with the family and come back a victim of character assassination.

First of all, WES is perfectly capable of handling its current population on a traditional calendar -- that can happen without reassigning anybody.  Secondly, the reason to assign Wakefield's mini-city kids back to Fox Rd. is that THEY DID BETTER THERE.  The district did them no favor by assigning them to Wakefield.  Thirdly, if you look at how WES' non-ED kids perform, you'll see that their scores alone wouldn't qualify the school as a School of Excellence -- there are bigger issues, largely caused by the active neglect of the previous board and administration.

As to the NAACP leaders in handcuffs, they behaved so poorly that they only hurt their side.  Those West Lake middle schoolers have nothing on Rev. Barber.

Whole picture

And I don't think the antics tonight illustrated a view of the whole picture either.  These folks are showing themselves as cultural dinosaurs. What the board is doing is bringing the school system back toward the middle. America is changing. It is no longer a black vs white discussion. This community has to find another way to 'discuss' these issues. This was a huge miscalculation tonight and it will backfire. Can you imagine if WSCA or WakeCares had ever had the AUDACITY to take the board's seats? In light of what is happening on the federal level, you would think that some of these folks would understand that their wave of support is on the downslide. Big gaffe. 

What floored me were the

What floored me were the comments from Sutton and Morrison on WRAL.  So if I get some people together to protest Broughton keeping their private IB program or protest the paltry offerings that non-magnet schools can offer, then they will be ok with it?  If we refuse to give up the podium, take the seats of board members and refuse to leave then Sutton will just think it was a way for us to get attention?  Morrison won't mind because I've got good intentions and as long as I don't go over the same amount of time that Barber did, she'll think that we didn't disrupt too long?  Unbelievable.  I don't care which 'side' of the argument the board members are on--this behavior is NOT acceptable.  Not from WSCA, not from WakeCares, not from NAACP, not from GSIW, not from ANYbody.

For any board member to say this behavior is ok is unbelievable.

...

I completely agree. Morrison fluffed it off by saying "It really didn't disrupt us for long."  What an idiot.

 

 

Did I say somewhere in my

Did I say somewhere in my post that I thought tonight's protest was a good idea?

What I have seen with my own eyes tells me more than any study.  Especially since we are constantly reminded (whenever a study suggests that the new board is heading in the wrong direction) that a study is always biased by the person performing the study.

Experience Counts

Dan -- if I remember correctly, you just recently joined the the long running battle here over Wake schools. I think you said your oldest was in 1st or 2nd grade.

When I think back to the days before my own kids started school, I believe my thoughts were more aligned with yours. I remember refusing to sign a neighborhood petition when our base elementary school was reassigned (back in the mid '90s). I remember thinking that surely the school system knows more about what's best for our community's educational needs.

I've been involved in the effort to reform school assignment for about 10 years now. I've spoken with thousands of parents over the years, many who have been disenfranchised by a system that has shown a total lack of respect to families. Multiple reassignments, sibling sent to different schools, siblings on different calendars, assignments that have affected child custody arrangements, choice for some but not for others, and a total lack of regard for the family unit, have convinced me that I was once young and naive.

With all due respect, I believe that you are young and naive. You have a very good ES assignment - probably one of the best in the county. You have not been reassigned to a distant school, you have not had to deal with a child traumatized by a school assignment who questions what he did to deserve it, you have not submitted countless applications for a magnet school and have them all rejected, you have not had to deal with a lack of course selection at the middle and high school level. You are living in an ideal world right now

Winston Churchill was credited (some believe incorrectly) with the following quote:

"Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains."

I don't identify myself as a liberal or conservative, but I think the quote has merits in that your life experiences tend to influence the way you think. They certainly have in my case.

"Multiple reassignments,

"Multiple reassignments, sibling sent to different schools, siblings on different calendars, assignments that have affected child custody arrangements, choice for some but not for others, and a total lack of regard for the family unit, have convinced me that I was once young and naive.

With all due respect, I believe that you are young and naive. You have a very good ES assignment - probably one of the best in the county. You have not been reassigned to a distant school, you have not had to deal with a child traumatized by a school assignment who questions what he did to deserve it, you have not submitted countless applications for a magnet school and have them all rejected, you have not had to deal with a lack of course selection at the middle and high school level. You are living in an ideal world right now"

With all due respect, you don't know as much about me as you think.

I have said before that I don't think zones are a bad idea.  I just believe that failing to try to keep schools (especially elementary) mostly balanced is a horrible idea.

I have dealt with a reassignment.  My daughter wasn't traumatized.  She loved her first school, and she loves her second school.  Before you claim "trauma", I think you should look at your response to the reassignment and see what you contributed.  Did you explain the positive aspects of the reassignment or did you yell "why us?" and complain?

Magnet envy drove a lot of the discontent that led to the new board's election.  I think that's obvious.  The only problem with that is that there are going to be a lot of people who don't get into magnet schools as long as there are magnet schools.

The new assignment model isn't going to eliminate inequity, it's just going to shift the burden to other groups.  It will offer a lot of choice, but only if you can provide transportation....or, it will be insanely expensive which would most likely mean that either the high poverty schools (which are obviously not good things, or JT wouldn't have suggested "promise zones") won't get extra resources at all or those extra resources will come in the form of reduced offerings elsewhere.

With all due respect, nothing about your complaints makes me think you'd be OK with your school not having something you think it "deserves" in order to fund extra teachers at a high poverty school.

Most multiple assignments have been due to growth.  There's not much that can be done about that.

Most siblings in different schools have resulted from parental decisions concerning grandfathering.

I don't know about siblings on different calendars and how it could happen.  Our principal says it wouldn't happen at our school.  Maybe you need to speak with the administrators at your particular school about that issue.

Choice for some and not for others isn't going anywhere, unless you consider being assigned to your 3rd or 4th preference "choice".  If that's the case, everyone was on their track of choice in YR, because you listed all 4 tracks in order of preference.

Is the custody problem a YR school complaint?  That's the only way I can imagine that school assignment could affect custody arrangements.

I haven't seen evidence of a "total lack of regard for the family unit" by the old board.  That is just a hyperbolic claim made to get a rise out of people, just like the NAACP's constant racism claims.

It's very clear that high poverty schools suffer unless they have a lot of extra resources.  It's also clear that the county is in a serious budget crunch (so bad that we can't even afford to belong to the NCSBA, even though every other district in NC somehow found the money).  So, all you (or anyone else) has to do is pull a Jerry Maguire and "Show me the money!".  If you (with all your age and experience) can show me how all the buses (for choice) and extra resources (for high poverty) will be paid for, then go right ahead.

If you can't show me where the money will come from, then everyone should stop singing the praises of an assignment model that we can't afford, and face the realities that we're going to have to deal with.

Response

With all due respect, you don't know as much about me as you think.

I know that you are relatively young and that your only experience with WCPSS is for the two years that your oldest has been in school. And I have heard you say that the basis for many of your thoughts are your own personal experience. I am simply trying to point out that you have not had to deal with many of the issues that thousands of parents have had to confront.

I was once a director in an organization (in a previous life) that provided me with the opportunity to speak with parent groups and PTAs all over the county, to discuss assignment issues with former superintendents, WEP leaders, 6 local mayors, and local and national media. I am bringing much more than my own personal experience to the discussion.

I have dealt with a reassignment.  My daughter wasn't traumatized.

Good for you. Though I believe that you were reassigned to a NEW school that was CLOSER to you neighborhood, and your daughter continued to go to school with her neighborhood friends. Frankly, if that's your only experience with reassignment, consider yourself blessed.

Did you explain the positive aspects of the reassignment or did you yell "why us?" and complain?

Perhaps you can help me here. What do you find positive about:

  1. becoming a spot node.
  2. being reassigned to an ES such that there are 23 ES closer to your home.
  3. having 85% of your node refuse to accept the reassignment, and enroll in magnet, charter, private, and home school, and fracturing the neighborhood in the process.
  4. having a drastic reduction in after school activity because many of your new classmates live on the other side of the county.
  5. not being able to volunteer nearly as much as you did at the previous school.
  6. being told by your reassigned schools that they did not have the resources to deal with your AG child, and that her only option would be to skip a grade.
  7. being in an ES where less than a dozen kids will go to the same MS as your child.

I don't know about siblings on different calendars and how it could happen.

One in high school on traditional calendar, one in middle school on year round calendar. Other than weekends, they have about 20 days of in common the entire year.

Magnet envy drove a lot of the discontent that led to the new board's election.  I think that's obvious.  The only problem with that is that there are going to be a lot of people who don't get into magnet schools as long as there are magnet schools.

I disagree. Many of the disenfranchised have been consistently denied acceptance into the magnet program.  Those that elected the new board don't want to go to magnet schools. They want community schools and stability. The only reason many of us applied to a magnet school to begin with, is because of the guarantee of stability.

I haven't seen evidence of a "total lack of regard for the family unit" by the old board.  That is just a hyperbolic claim made to get a rise out of people, just like the NAACP's constant racism claims.

I've personally spoken with thousands of parents who feel like the previous boards have had a total lack of regard for families. How many more do I have to speak to before you'll drop the hyperbole claim?

Most multiple assignments have been due to growth.  There's not much that can be done about that.

Ok, let's take this opportunity to discuss growth and reassignment. Growth increases enrollment at existing schools. In most districts around the country, when enrollment becomes unsustainable in two (or more) schools, the district builds a new school, centrally located to the crowded schools, and reassigns neighborhoods to the new school. Here's a simple example: Schools A and B have enrollments that are at 120% of capacity. A new school C is built, centrally located near schools A and B. 40% of the kids in School A and 40% of the kids in School B are reassigned to School C. The neighborhoods reassigned to School C are contiguous neighborhoods located close to School C. In this example, the number of kids reassigned is kept to an absolute minimum. Those that are reassigned continue to go to school with the kids in their neighborhood and surrounding neighborhoods. AND -- they get to go to a new school. If this was the way that growth and reassignment were handled in Wake County, I doubt that you would see any opposition to reassignment here. Who amongst us would complain about being reassigned to a brand new school, and one that is closer to our home?

So let's compare and contrast that with the way growth and reassignment are handled in Wake. When it's time to build a new school, very little attention is given to the appropriate location of the new school (e.g. 3 elementary schools within 1.8 miles of each other on the rim). They find the cheapest piece of land (in some cases, agreeing to spend 3 times as much as it is worth), and build a school. Then they begin to populate the school, paying particular attention to "the numbers." This often leads to the domino effect: Not only are kids moved from Schools A and B into School C, but now they have to move kids from Schools D and E into Schools A and B to balance SES. Then schools D and E are unbalanced, and more families are affected. Then when affected families begin mass exodus of their base school and enroll in magnet, charter, private, and home schools, even more reassignments are necessary to put things back in balance. When all is said and done, the opening of School C has a tsunami effect, swallowing thousands of families in its destructive path. And WCPSS gets to say that all those reassignments were all due to growth, and folks like you drink the kool-aid.

If you can't show me where the money will come from, then everyone should stop singing the praises of an assignment model that we can't afford, and face the realities that we're going to have to deal with.

As far as I know, no one has performed a cost analysis that has shown that the new assignment model will be more expensive. Your claim is nothing more than your opinion. I have posted on previous blogs that WCPSS has spent millions of dollars each year on involuntary busing (WCPSS' term for busing students for diversity reasons). Involuntary busing will go away with the new assignment model, freeing up millions of dollars each year. That money could be used on the new assignment model IF, in fact, it turns out to be more expensive.
 

My daughter's new school is

My daughter's new school is about the same distance away from home as the old one.  Some of her K classmates (less than five) are also in her 1st grade class at the new school, but no "neighborhood kids"....especially since we live in a downtown area and not in a neighborhood.  We actually live across the street from an apartment complex that is most likely low income (I haven't asked because a. it's not my business and b. I don't care).  The rest of our area is mostly people who have lived in their houses for 20 or 30 years, and their kids are grown.

If nothing changes (fat chance), my kids would be on different calendars when my daughter starts 6th grade.  At that time, we'll either deal with it or we'll opt to have a kid switch schools to line up the calendars.  Wouldn't the middle schooler have a traditional option?

Your "perfect model" for building a new school is straight out of Disney's Celebration.  It isn't reality.  At least it isn't reality for WCPSS.  Where land is available matters.  Plus, when you're dealing with so many schools, I don't think the growth was so perfectly planned that two schools would magically be overcapacity while the others remained below.  That's a fairy tale.  In reality, what happened is one or two schools would have 4 neighborhoods pop up around them, so they'd be overcrowded.  But, at the same time another school relatively close by had some room, so some kids were reassigned.  I think it's very unrealistic to expect the type of growth that WCPSS dealt with over the last 10-15 years to be handled simply by construction, especially in the manner you suggested.  I mean, hasn't most of the growth been in the suburbs?  Isn't that where the schools have been built?  How many new downtown Raleigh schools have been built?  No matter how you spin it, most of the reassignments have been spurred by overcrowding and new construction.  SES concerns most assuredly impacted which nodes were reassigned.

As far as your busing "cost analysis", try logic.  The new assignment model is supposed to include choice for ALL families.  Choice without transportation is not really choice so busing to at least a few of the choices has to be a part of the deal.  So far, the most basic suggestion has been to give every family a YR choice and 2 TR choices.  That means that instead of sending two buses into every neighborhood, they would be sending 3 (or more, depending on how many choices).  There is no way that stopping a few long bus rides makes up for that many more buses and routes that will be needed.

You'll probably say that we could put more kids on each bus.  Well, the 3-tier system makes time a very important factor, which limits capacity.  Plus, if you fill up all the buses, there's going to be a bunch of kids who get on the bus and ride it for an hour even though the school is 4 miles from their house.  Would that not matter?  Is a long bus ride only a problem if the kids are traveling a long distance?

Your "perfect model" for

Your "perfect model" for building a new school is straight out of Disney's Celebration. 

Tell that to the school districts that I have researched that use this model.

As far as your busing "cost analysis", try logic. 

That's rather ironic, since my background is in computer science which relies heavily on deductive reasoning, or logic.  The cost of busing is directly correlated with students served and miles driven. The average bus in WCPSS transports about 28 kids/route, while the average school bus capacity is 66 kids (for elementary schools, the demographic most likely to take the bus). The average school bus in WCPSS travels well over 100 miles each day. I know several bus drivers that tell me they drive long routes with only 6-8 kids on an entire bus.
 
WCPSS define maximum one-way ride times as 75 minutes for elementary and 90 minutes for secondary. For magnet schools, year round schools, and ESL, an additional 30 minutes is allowed (hard to believe that you can spend 4 hours on a school bus each day, and WCPSS thinks that this is acceptable). The limits are set this high for one reason:  because we have a lot of long bus routes throughout the system.
 
Today, there are already many buses that run through a neighborhood. In my neighborhood, there is a traditional, year round, and magnet bus for elementary school, middle school, and high school (that's a total of 8 bus routes). While the new community model may still require the same number of buses, the traditional, year round, and magnet schools will most likely be located in the same zone, i.e. the bus rides will be shorter in length. Less miles = less cost.
 
Finally, in computer science, there is a common problem called the "The Traveling Salesman." Given a list of cities and their pairwise distances, the task is to find a shortest possible tour that visits each city exactly once. School bus routing is a version of the traveling salesman problem with time-window constraints and route balancing. It is one of the most intensively studied problems in optimization, yet I am willing to bet that WCPSS does not use any software algorithms for optimizing their school bus routes. With a community assignment model, optimization of school bus routes becomes possible, and can fill school buses to capacity, serve more than one school on a single route, reduce the amount of time students spend on a bus, and save money.
 
Given all this information, I can "logically" conclude that it is more than likely that the costs of transportation can be significantly reduced under the community assignment plan.

"With a community assignment

"With a community assignment model, optimization of school bus routes becomes possible, and can fill school buses to capacity, serve more than one school on a single route, reduce the amount of time students spend on a bus, and save money.

Given all this information, I can "logically" conclude that it is more than likely that the costs of transportation can be significantly reduced under the community assignment plan."

I can't believe those two comments are back to back.  The first one makes a series of assumptions that don't "logically" work, unless you do away with the three-tiered system.  The three-tiered busing system limits the amount of time you have for a bus to run its route.

If you do away with the three-tier system, you need more buses. 

I think there are still going to be quite a few magnets downtown, that will still require busing.  I don't believe the plan is to create a "wagon wheel" zone system, and I don't think there are enough kids to fill the schools if those areas are made into a zone.

Filling all buses to capacity would not mean kids spend less time on a bus.  In most situations right now, the buses pick kids up for 20-25 minutes and then head to a school.  If you try to pick up more kids AND go to another school, how do you figure the average ride time for those kids will go down?

The bus routes seem optimized now.  Most neighborhoods don't have but a couple of stops.  For the routes that have long rides, they have only a few stops and then they get on the way to school.  It's actually quite efficient.

 
 

Facts vs Opinions

The bus routes seem optimized now

I am getting fed up with your arguments that are for the most part, based only on your opinion or limited observation. Let's take a look at how this discussion has progressed:

  1. You (one person) say that reassignments are not traumatic because your daughter was fine, but I talk to hundreds of parents that say their kids suffered great anxiety from reassignment.
  2. You ask if I looked at the positive aspects of my reassignment, but when I ask you to identify what could be positive, you fail to respond.
  3. You say you don't see how it is possible to have different siblings on different calendars, ignoring the fact that thousands in Wake have one sibling on traditional and another on year round.
  4. You (one person) haven't seen a total lack of regard for the family unit, but I've spoken with thousands of parents that believe that prior boards did not have any regard for their families.
  5. You (drinking the CPSS kool-aid) believe that most reassignments have been done for growth, yet you ignore statistics show that reassignments far outnumber the enrollment of new schools, and you ignore the very real domino effect that occurs when trying to balance SES.
  6. I explain how other school districts across the nation handle growth, and you (one person) proclaim it to be a "Disney Celebration."
  7. I list numerous facts showing that busing routes are not optimized, but you counter that they SEEM optimized.

With regards to transportation, I can only present the facts:

  1. WCPSS spends several million dollars each year on what they call "involuntary busing."
  2. The average bus in Wake County runs less than 1/2 full. Many buses travel routes with only a handful of students on them.
  3. The average bus in Wake County travels well over 100 miles per day.
  4. 8-10 buses pass through most neighborhoods each day.
  5. A zone model means that students live in the same geographical area as the schools they are bussed to.
  6. A majority of students in Wake County live within 2 miles of an elementary schools,  3 miles of a middle school, and 5 miles of a high school (as the crow flies).
  7. Bus routes are not computer optimized in WCPSS (See how New York City used sophisticated software algorithms to optimize their bus routes).

A zone model means that buses take shorter trips. When they take shorter trips they have more time to make additional stops. When they make additional stops, buses are filled to capacity. When buses are filled to capacity, it lowers the need for additional buses and/or reduces the necessity to run on 3 tiers. With less buses and/or less routes, the taxpayers save money.

I'm done here. You can have the last word and tell me what you "think", what you "believe," or what "seems to be." I'm sticking to the facts.

Hey jeffrey.....

I had a long post written, and the blog ate it.  This one will be shorter.

For your first 7, I admit that I didn't consider the high schooler and ES/MS sibling problem.  But, I would have to ask you about your feelings for the Garner to SERHS reassignment, since there are basically ZERO ES and MS that are on the same calendar as SERHS.  Any siblings of those kids are now on different calendars.

Your reassignment opinions would indicate that you are against the new H6 site, because it will never be centrally located to its population which is apparently a big problem for you.  Also, the growth in WCPSS didn't affect 2 schools at a time, so your nice little example was, in fact, useless.  There were a lot of schools near, at or over capacity, so there was no way to build enough schools so that each new school was only affecting 2 others.  NO WAY.

For the bottom 7:

1.  Could you provide a link to that information?  I'd love to see it.

2.  Directly results from the 3-tier system.  Without the 3-tier, we need more buses and more drivers.

3.  That average bus is running three separte routes twice a day.  That makes that 100 miles not really be all that much.

4.  That's better than the 10-15 required if you had another school choice or two.

5.  In 08-09, over 86% of kids who attended their assigned base school were less than 5 miles from their home.

6.  In 08-09, almost 80% of ES students attending their assigned base school lived less than 3 miles away.  Bump that to 5 miles, and the number goes to over 91%.  That other 8%+ accounts for your MILLIONS in savings?

7.  I have seen computer routing models work, and there is no guarantee that they would improve the beast that is WCPSS.  I don't care what assignment model you use.

And, once again, filling those buses to capacity mean that a kid who lives less than 5 miles from his school is going to ride the bus over an hour.  I grew up doing that, so I know that is a fact.  Is that going to be acceptable?

Part of the problem is that

Part of the problem is that for years, WCPSS built schools on the 'busable rim' rather than where the growth was.  \

Apexter has posted before about the schools that were built downtown.  Moore Square Middle is one that I can remember that was built recently, and they still have trouble populating it.

Here is a list of the

Here is a list of the schools built since 2003.  Please let me know which ones you consider to be busable rim...

2003
Holly Ridge (Holly Springs)

2004
Forestville Elementary (Knightdale)
Highcroft (Cary)
Jones Dairy (Wake Forest)
Turner Creek (Cary)
Wake Forest (Wake Forest)
Heritage MS (Wake Forest)
Knightdale HS (Knightdale)

2005
Cedar Fork (Morrisville)
Forest Pines (Raleigh - NOT RIM)
Harris Creek (Raleigh - NOT RIM)
Wakelon (Zebulon)
East Wake School Science (Wendell)

2006
River Bend (Raleigh - NOT RIM)
Barwell (Raleigh - MAYBE RIM?)
Brier Creek (Raleigh - NOT RIM)
Carpenter (Cary)
Holly Grove (Holly Springs)
East Wake Health Science HS (Wendell)
East Wake Integrated Tech HS (Wendell)
Wake Early College (Raleigh)
Panther Creek HS (Cary)

2007
East Garner (Garner)
North Forest Pines (Raleigh)
Sanford Creek (Rolesville)
Wake Forest Rolesville MS (Wake Forest)
Wendell MS (Wendell)
East Wake Arts,Global HS (Wendell)
East Wake Engineering HS (Wendell)

2008
Forestville Rd (Knightdale)
Laurel Park (Apex)
Sycamore Creek (Raleigh - NOT RIM)

2009
Banks Rd (Raleigh - NOT RIM)
Creech Rd (Garner)
Lake Myra (Wendell)
 

Moore Square was built in downtown Raleigh in 2002 - the last inner city school to be built.  Perhaps the trouble with populating it is due to the suburban phobia of entering downtown Raleigh?  BTW, I am a suburbanite and had no problems or concerns about sending my child there.  But those afraid of the city and the "funky" modified calendar will lose out on an opportunity.

The 'busable rim' phenomenon

The 'busable rim' phenomenon was earlier--before the 2000s.  But it exacerbated problems with getting seats to the farther reaches of the county as the growth edged outward.

I don't know anybody who has a phobia about entering downtown Raleigh.  Many people I know who are north of 540 just think its too far away, and I can fully understand their point of view.  I know a lot of people in my area who wouldn't consider Hunter or Powell because of the distance but their kids attend Douglas and Brooks instead. Much easier to get to than going all the way downtown and they are still able to avoid reassignment and YR by going magnet. 

I think that Moore Sq has a few things going against it: it doesn't automatically feed into Broughton or Enloe.  SE Raleigh is quite far for many families in North Raleigh.  Some kids want to play 'official' sports rather than intramurals.  It doesn't have the draw of AG/GT.  That's HUGE to many people.  It's not Ligon and to many people, Ligon is the be all, end all.  East Millbrook Middle has that problem, too. 

1990 vs 2000

Here is the population density

in 1990: ...http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ThematicMapFramesetServlet?_bm=y&-_MapEvent=displayBy&-tm_name=DEC_1990_STF1_M00090&-ds_name=DEC_1990_STF1_&-tm_config=|b=50|l=en|t=4001|zf=0.0|ms=thm_def|dw=1.1191768332529404|dh=0.6722245819277891|dt=gov.census.aff.domain.map.EnglishMapExtent|if=gif|cx=-78.6252695|cy=35.797694|zl=6|pz=6|bo=|bl=|ft=350:349:335:389:388:332:331|fl=403:381:204:380:369:379:368|g=05000US37183|ds=DEC_2000_SF1_U|sb=50|tud=false|db=060|mn=61|mx=2931|cc=1|cm=1|cn=5|cb=|um=Persons/Sq%20Mile|pr=0|th=DEC_2000_SF1_U_M00090|sf=N|sg=&-redoLog=false&-geo_id=05000US37183&-_dBy=060&-_sse=on&-_lang=en

and in 2000:

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ThematicMapFramesetServlet?_bm=y&-_MapEvent=displayBy&-tm_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U_M00090&-ds_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U&-tm_config=|b=50|l=en|t=100|zf=0.0|ms=thm_def_90dec|dw=1.1191768332529404|dh=0.6722245819277891|dt=gov.census.aff.domain.map.EnglishMapExtent|if=gif|cx=-78.6252695|cy=35.797694|zl=6|pz=6|bo=|bl=|ft=416:470:469:413:412:431:430|fl=450:461:449:460:489:484:462|g=05000US37183|ds=DEC_1990_STF1_|sb=40|tud=false|db=060|mn=47|mx=2773|cc=1|cm=1|cn=5|cb=|um=Persons/Sq%20Mile|pr=0|th=DEC_1990_STF1_M00090|sf=N|sg=&-redoLog=false&-geo_id=05000US37183&-_dBy=060&-_sse=on&-_lang=en

You can see where the growth was over those 10 years.  Seems like it matches up with where they put the schools.

I don't think it matches up

I don't think it matches up with where the growth was.  I see that they built new schools where there wasn't an increase of growth.

Which one of these are you

Which one of these are you talking about?  Seems to match up just fine:

1990
Lead Mine ES
Rand Road ES

1991
Morrisville ES
Leesville ES

1992
Creech Rd ES
Durant Rd ES
Leesville Rd ES
Pleasant Union ES
West Lake ES
West Lake MS

1993
Durant Rd MS
Leesville Rd HS

1994
Oak Grove ES

1995
Davis Drive ES
Hodge Rd ES
Weatherstone ES

1996
Baileywick ES
Hilburn ES
Holly Springs ES
Jones Dairy ES
Davis Dr MS

1997
Olive Chapel ES
Timber Drive ES
SRHS

1998
Partnership ES

1999
Dillard Dr ES
Reedy Creek ES
Wakefield ES
Wildwood Forest ES
Dillard MS
Lufkin Rd MS
Green Hope HS

2000
Green Hope ES
Middle Creek ES
Salem ES
Yates Mill ES
Centennial MS
Wakefield MS
Wakefield HS

(thanks user12345 for that link.  I was looking for that)

I don't see where the growth

I don't see where the growth increased enough around Swift Creek/Dillard area to warrant 2 new schools in that area.  Not when you consider where the higher growth was. 

Town of Cary

I have a very old map from the Town of Cary that displayed their 5-year plan for annexations and development.  They had their eye on the Swift Creek area for expansion, which caused a lot of concern to the residents, eventually resulting in the Swift Creek Land Management Plan and the attempt to incorporate the Town of Swift Creek.  This forced the planned development to slow down, with less dense neighborhoods.  I imagine when the schools were planned for that location, there was the presumption of high growth.  It didn't happen due to events out of their control.  That being said, there was a need for a MS in that area.  I think the closest schools from that point were East Cary MS, Apex MS, and Fuquay MS

Interesting info.  Yes, I

Interesting info.  Yes, I agree about the middle schools.  Dillard Drive and Centennial were both crowded in 2004-05 if I remember correctly.  

When was that expansion planned for?  How long before the schools were built? 

Reaching way back in my

Reaching way back in my brain here, but I believe I got the map in the 90's and it was labelled as their 5 year plan.  (Maybe 1995-2000).  It was before Glen Lang was mayor.

Point was, it was in their plan, and that is likely information that WCPSS used for their planning.

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.
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