The state NAACP said some pretty nasty things on Friday about members of the Wake County school board majority as they announced they had filed a complaint with the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools.
As noted in today's article, members of the NAACP hurled charges of racism and likened the board majority to clowns, Communists, dictators and the Mafia. School board chairman Ron Margiotta's educational background was questioned and he was called "unfit" to keep his post.
"[Margiotta] doesn't even have a college degree," said NAACP Attorney Al McSurely. "They've got clowns running this school board."
Margiotta, 71, enlisted in the U.S. Coast Guard after graduating from Weehawken High School in the 1950s. Afterward, he started his own business to support his family. He took some labor relations courses at St. Peter's College.
The Rev. William Barber, president of the state NAACP, called on Margiotta to step down as chairman. He said his comparing the school board to the Mafia didn't compare to Margiotta's "here come the animals out of the cages" remark.
“My comment is not even comparative to what Margiotta said,” Barber said. “I believe he’s unfit. He shouldn’t be chair, not with this kind of attitude.”
“As African Americans, we know this language of comparing people to animals,” Barber said. “In this country, black people couldn’t even be baptized because they were considered animals."
But Margiotta has questioned how his remark can be considered racial when he was expressing how upset he was that a mostly white crowd was booing Bill Randall, a black speaker.
Other members of the NAACP stood by Barber's Mafia allusion even though the Italian-American community has historically considered statements like that to be an ethnic slur.
“[Those words] speak the truth, and that’s as simple as that,” the Rev. Nancy Petty of Raleigh’s Pullen Memorial Baptist Church told reporters at the press conference.
Petty had wrote an op-piece in January in which she warned that the new board is leading Wake toward a path of "segregation and intolerance" which "diminishes the value of every single human being living in Wake County."
Margiotta wasn't returning calls Friday but other members of the school board majority were indignant about the complaint.
"I don't know how any of this helps the kids in Wake County," said board vice chairwoman Debra Goldman. "I don't find anything positive in this."
Board member John Tedesco said it was "deplorable" for Barber to accuse the majority of being racists.
Comments
Civic planning
Mon, 03/08/2010 - 22:59 — SDR256Hey who else was encouraged by the news that Ron Margiotta and Debra Goldman met with the NC Housing Coalition to discuss how our communities can be planned to be more diverse?
http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/03/07/372352/housing-is-key-school-equality.html I thought this was just the ticket. Thank you Ron and Debra!
(about a year ago when I mentioned a huge well published previous cross county civic planning session to Ann Dennlinger and asked why schools had not been a part of the discussion she pretended - or even scarier still honestly - responded with ignorance.)
SO glad this is on the radar now.
Instead of ensuring that
Tue, 03/09/2010 - 12:23 — user12345Instead of ensuring that housing is affordable for all incomes throughout the county, our lack of planning has resulted in entire areas becoming unaffordable to rent or purchase for families earning below the median income of $76,900.
Remember when teachers could actually buy a home near the school where they taught?
I hadn't seen that story yet
Tue, 03/09/2010 - 10:16 — jenmanI hadn't seen that story yet Sarah. Very encouraging. I was at a WEP roundtable discussion on the diversity policy where two of us suggested to Ann D that WEP should get involved in this issue. That this busing for diversity business was just going to get worse and worse unless affordable housing was spread out throughout the county. She said that it wasn't anything that had been discussed before but she'd keep it mind. lol
Hey!
Tue, 03/09/2010 - 10:56 — JSBinNCI think I remember that conversation!! ;)
:-)
Tue, 03/09/2010 - 11:25 — jenman:-)
Remember when...
Mon, 03/08/2010 - 20:57 — louiselee44The national Superintendent of the Year a few years ago didn't even have a doctorate, and that's quite unusual. No one questioned it however, because citizens were proud that Wake County's Bill McNeal received such an honor. Plus, that was before our county became so splintered and full of venom. What a shame...
the Italian-American
Mon, 03/08/2010 - 19:31 — carson79the Italian-American community has historically considered statements like that to be an ethnic slur.
This is news to me, I mean I knew it was touchy but not an ethnic slur.
ummm
Mon, 03/08/2010 - 22:36 — loriacYou're Italian, you must be in the Mafia.
You're xxx, you must be a criminal.
xxx = favorite nationality
Give me a break - of course it's a slur. What else would you call it?
Call out to Rev. Barber
Mon, 03/08/2010 - 12:27 — ncsenate14HURLBURTAs the Candidate for NC Senate 14 this election year, I want the readers to know that I have called on Rev. Barber to rise above the rhetoric and engage the Wake County School Board and the NCAE to a collaborative, productive discussion about the real root problem of why students are not achieving to the level we, I believe, are all aspiring. That root problem is that the Family Court System separates children from either of their parents. In 5 out of 6 custody cases, primary physical custody is awarded to the Mother. 40% of these children haven't seen their Father in over a year. This raises risk factors for trouble way up. We see it in our dropout rates and graduation rates. Rev. Barber should answer my email and get on board with cleaning up these rulings coming out of the Family Court System. That alone will start swinging the pendulum back to children success. Having the Mother and the Father intimately involved in that child's life is the key. Google ncsenate14 and Vote children on November 2.
Of those 40% that haven't
Mon, 03/08/2010 - 18:12 — danofncOf those 40% that haven't seen their fathers in a year, what percentage of that is because of the father's wishes? The child's?
Having a father involved is not always the best solution.
Contrary to what you seem to think, your family court issue is not really all that related to the current Wake County schools debate.
Perhaps. Or one could argue
Mon, 03/08/2010 - 19:13 — red_balloonPerhaps. Or one could argue that the money being spent on family court issues could be spent for other purposes. Also, keeping both parents involved should be better in a larger number of cases than having one or both parents disengaged.
How realistic is it for both
Tue, 03/09/2010 - 08:40 — danofncHow realistic is it for both parents to remain fully engaged in their child's education after a divorce? Are they going to spend one night with mom and the next with dad? Is that an example of the "stability" that the zone-based schools model is expected to provide? That would take a special set of parents and special kids.
What if one parent wants to move? What if one parent is a bum? What if the parents aren't all the friendly (they are separated, after all)?
Of course the goal should be for all kids to have two involved parents. It's just not reality.
Of course the goal should be
Tue, 03/09/2010 - 09:13 — red_balloonOf course the goal should be for all kids to have two involved parents.
It's just not reality.
Let's give the man credit for at least trying.
It can be reality if the
Tue, 03/09/2010 - 11:52 — ncsenate14HURLBURTIt can be reality if the Family Court System would stop perpetuating the cycle. That cycle being separating children from either of their parents after family fragmentation, risk factors for trouble and education failure go way up, government has to step in with all kinds of social support programs related to education, healthcare, corrections, children grow up situation never improves, cycle repeat.
It cost the NC taxpayers at a conservative $1.329 billion dollars every year. This cycle affects 1 in 3 children today. For African Americans, it is more than 1 in 2, 56%. The only way to stop this cycle is break the root. You can't stop family fragmentation, but we can effect the Family Court System to stop separating children from either of their parents.
The child's best interest is shared responsiblity. Of course, there are exceptions, but most Fathers and Mothers would, if not having a barrier of tens of thousands of dollars(which the majority don't have anyway in the families related to this education topic)to even enter the Family Court System to ensure your child's right to equal access. Let alone that the Family Court System practices a gender bias everyday of 5 out of 6 custodial disputes end in primary custody to Mother. Knowing those odds, who is going to try. Then these parents get labeled as not wanting to be involved..that is sick.
I have the research that shows it. Every other weekend harms children. Continuing, close, frequent contact, including during the school week, travel to and from, after school, bedtime rituals, all of that makes a difference to the children when shared. The research is minimum 35% time share with benefits continuing to accrue all the way up to and including a 50/50 split. I wouldn't recommend switching every day, but a 2-2-3 could work or a 7-7 can work to.Depends on the individual fragmented family details
“What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.”
www.ncsenate14.org Join the conversation on the message board for the NC Senate District 14 www.ncsenate14.org/board
Where are the letters?
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 09:50 — dgraffInteresting lack of letters to the editor regarding wcpss/diversity, etc. today. (only one)
Notice that it is anti-board and notice that Steve Ford is urging board opposers to "continue the fight".
Another example of the "balanced" coverage in the
N & O.
The Social Combat Manual of the NAACP
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 09:32 — Voice_of_Reason_Rules for Radicals: A Practical Primer for Realistic Radicals) written by community organizer Saul D. Alinsky. Taught by President Obama. On his recommended reading list for children in school. ( I am not making this up). Has anybody read this? This book is anti-American culture. If you don't know know what I am talking about, at least Google a summary. If you look at it in this "lens", you heart will be free to severely criticize the NAACP and not feel like a racist doing it. For those lazy to look up our read, let me give you a couple excerpts: - ...the end justifies almost ANY means - Concern with ethics increases with the number of means available and vice versa. (Think about that one, scary) - You do what you can with what you have and clothe it with moral garments. (sound familiar _"REVERAND") What they are trying to do with Ron is Rule #12: "pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." This is scary stuff folks, discount it at your own peril.
Still unconvinced, read how the book starts: "What follows is for those who want to change the world from what it is to what they believe it should be. The Prince was written by Machiavelli for the Haves on how to hold power. Rules for Radicals is written for the Have-Nots on how to take it away"
The problem is, even if you believe that's its worth a try to make utopia on earth, is what is at the end. What is at the end is not pretty or utopian at all. It never has come close to that.
I'm embarrassed for the NAACP.
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 00:32 — raleighlauraI'm sure some of NAACP members feel about this outrageous complaint the same way I felt when my democratic party told me that I was out of line to want change. When you are invested in organizations and find their positions to suddenly be on the other side of the "reasonable" line, it's like a slap in the face. To call people "racists" for trying to make sure our kids get access to 8th grade Algebra, don't have to be bussed halfway across the county to make another area "healthy", and to raise the graduation rates for all children has got to be over that line for some of their members.
When will it be about the children?
Sat, 03/06/2010 - 23:28 — SDR256"How long are we going to continue fighting over adult power issues while our kids continue to suffer?" Klein asked rhetorically.
Indeed.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/04/04/2009-04-04_new_school_chums_rev_al_sharpton_and_joe.html#ixzz0hSIISszW
NYC Schools Chancellor Joel Klein and Al Sharpton have been called racists too for the work they are doing with EEP to close the achievement gap. Arne Duncan is supporting Community Schools and place based programs. I suppose he is a racist as well. Join the club guys.
Let's look beyond the tiny fierce homegrown local fiefdoms. They simply do not want to go into the quiet night, and want to cling to their political power.
Let's focus on solutions for the children. The board, I believe, is headed in the right direction. They need us to help them help our school system and the children - help with ideas, opinions and data. Name calling is just theatrics and is all about ego and power.
I have thought it important
Sat, 03/06/2010 - 09:59 — red_balloonI have thought it important that, bickering aside, all sides be represented and have a say in shaping a better model for WCPSS. But as I read about these antics it makes me wonder if the children of Wake county can count upon adults and leaders to be responsible. I hope saner elements will prevail and the BOE can work with a wide range of stakeholders to plan for improving academic outcomes for all students.
amen
Sat, 03/06/2010 - 14:29 — Athey01I agree completely. If they were children, I would send them to their rooms.
check out John T's interview
Sat, 03/06/2010 - 10:03 — AngelaWcheck out John T's interview on News 14, link listed below, to hear who they want included in discussing and planning for community zones....
That was informative. I
Sat, 03/06/2010 - 10:38 — red_balloonThat was informative. I liked his point about those wanting diversity to live in diverse neighborhoods than look to the school system to make up for their shortcomings. Also interesting was his point about discussing with county/ city officials the need for low income housing across the county.
Perilously close to the flip
Sat, 03/06/2010 - 17:05 — Dove314Perilously close to the flip side argument of "I live in a non-diverse community because I dislike diversity".
I definitely see your
Sat, 03/06/2010 - 17:31 — jenmanI definitely see your point. But I have thought the same thing about the speakers who claim that without the diversity policy their kids would never be exposed to people other than them. I've heard people who live in the base for low poverty schools like Brassfield and Pleasant Union speak condescendingly about how those schools would be 'lily white' and all 'rich' if it weren't for the busing. And how great it is that their kids go to magnets so they can see 'diversity'. I have often found myself thinking, "If diversity is so important to you and you hold the racial and SES makeup of your base school in such disdain, then why would you choose to live there?". If there weren't the magnet benefits for your child at the end of that bus ride, would you willingly send them to a more diverse school?
I think there are a lot of people who like sending their kids on a bus to get 'diversity' (especially if there's a magnet at the end of that ride) but they like having that diversity when they want it. They like coming back to their own neighborhoods where they feel comfortable. And that's ok, I'm not saying they are bad people or racists/elitists for feeling that way. Just that they need to be a little more honest with themselves about it and maybe not judge other people so harshly for wanting their kids to go to school closer to home.
I've often thought about the fact that I'm happy that I have black, Indian, Asian, and Jewish neighbors. I do like that my neighborhood is not all white (its still mostly white--I'm not fooling myself here). But would I move to a neighborhood that is mostly minority? Or mostly poor? Probably not because honestly, It would be hard being the 'minority'. For society in general it seems that minorities are the ones who are expected to do the integrating, not the whites.
I'm just putting out an idea/topic for discussion. I want to hear differing opinions, but please nobody overreact and say that I'm calling all people who live in non-diverse areas racists or elitists. I just think that there's still a lot of 'baggage' surrounding issues of racial and economic diversity. We need to start having more honest discussions about it where we don't judge each other or jump to conclusions.
Ok, very tentatively pushing 'post comment'. . . .
Hey Jenman, Can I just
Sat, 03/06/2010 - 19:05 — Dove314Hey Jenman,
Can I just say, that while I'm definitely not sold on the community ideas, I really appreciate the way you introduce discussive topics and keep it productive.
I grew up in a county in a large city. The diversity / ethnicity / socio-economic status shifted during my elementary schools years. By middle school, the district ranged from near 100% black, low SES, inner city high school to near 100% white, higher SES schools farther out. Racial diversity and SES was a sliding scale in between. A lot of the white parents preferred to move to a less diverse community than be a part of a racially diverse community. My parents were committed to the community and felt we needed to be a part of those making diversity happen and showing it could be done productively. In middle school, the race riots were so bad that we threw the principal through a plate glass window when he broke up a fight. By graduation, we had largely worked past our differences. I had, and have, a diverse array of friends based not on the color of their skin or income level, but on our interests. It was not tidy or safe or ideal but I did benefit immensely and one lessen is to make the best with what I had.
But this wasn't diversity because people were bused to anywhere, it was the community. So, in a way, we naturally had the very zones that seem to be the goal
of this new policy. Those schools with less of an even mix of ethnicities suffered many more problems and never got the cultural understanding, appreciation, and respect for our differences. Both ends of the community continued to have problems with diversity, quality of schools, and more. There were facilities differences, differences in the teachers, dismissive attitudes, violence, and more. Those problems have continued and are ongoing today, particularly strong in the inner city where no new facilities have been built since the Roosevelt era.
It was with tears in my eyes, many years ago, that I watched my daughter's kindergarten class comprised of a diverse array of ethnicities singing about the rainbow people of the world. That diverse group hasn't all attended the same middle and high schools but as they saw/see each other in new settings, they have had that childhood friendship underlying all.
I'd really hoped we'd gotten beyond all of this, but clearly we haven't.
I'm happy to hear more and keep an open-mind about community schools but I've lived them and they were not best for all.
Thanks for posting. I'm
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 23:24 — jenmanThanks for posting. I'm still digesting and didn't want you to think I was ignoring your post. Our neighbohood elem school is already very diverse so I'm thinking of from that point also.
In addiition, the fact that our school system is countywide makes us unique. It's hard to compare us with a typical city (urban) school system. Like I said, still digesting. :-)
You are a busy person so
Mon, 03/08/2010 - 13:15 — Dove314You are a busy person so didn't figure you were. I won't have the option to be around much this week myself.
Just know that while a part of larger city, the county of which i speak was a similar mix of urban and rural and of a similar size, not a predominantly urban environment by any means.
I'm finding it discouraging to try to learn anything from these blogs as they seem overrun by extremists in general so thanks for assisting me.
so many kinds of diversity
Sat, 03/06/2010 - 17:57 — loriacI agree - I get most upset when I feel that people aren't being true to their motivations. Also- there are so many kinds of diversity. Age, race, religion, where you were born (:-) ie, non-Southerners) - some of these are visible and some are not.
People have many reasons for choosing to live where they do - budget is certainly one, but commute times, neighbors, amenities, schools all come into play. If we have a choice in where we live, why not a choice in the schools. Where did we ever get the idea that we had to force a certain 'mix' of students in a classroom - asking that rhetorically, but who gets to define the mix? What happens when people move and the mix is no longer right? Or when people opt out, because they don't like being forced? It's a never ending cycle that ends in the mess that we have today.
I believe that our neighborhoods are more diverse than people believe - and it's not all about skin color. Let's open up the aperture - diversity is so much more that someone's economic status. Labeling a child this way has not led to anything good for them.
I don't mind if you want to
Sat, 03/06/2010 - 17:14 — red_balloonI don't mind if you want to call that synonymous. Regardless, the question remains. If someone is so in love with diversity, why be subjected to the vagaries of the school district when one can control the outcome better and, most important, sign up for a sustained, immersion experience?
I think you are missing the
Sat, 03/06/2010 - 18:20 — user12345I think you are missing the point ... normally ITB area should be a ghetto like more cities ... but over the years we have made it a nice place to live ... so people invested in those area, renovated homes, sunk all their efforts and saving into communities knowing their kids could go to good schools ... so, now, the tide had changed, the good schools will be removed, all the poor kids will be sent ITB and those good schools will be no more ... and all that work to rebuild communities will be lost ... and Raleigh will turn into any other city with all the poor housed and schooled downtown and all the good school moved to the ring of suburbia around beltline ... so, diversity is great but ITB will go from diverse to poor in a few years followed by white flight .... what happened elsewhere in the 1970's and has just been delayed here ... I think everyone who has gone through that experience before is not looking forward to reliving it here again ...
Is it worth saving ITB if
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 23:13 — jenmanIs it worth saving ITB if the rest of us have to sacrifice to do so? There are schools in NE Raleigh and in the rim that are experiencing F&R rates that they would NEVER allow some of the ITB schools to get to. Is it worth keeping white flight from happening in ITB schools if it means the same thing happens to other schools?
Just something to think about.
I would much prefer to
Mon, 03/08/2010 - 12:21 — user12345I would much prefer to forget there is a highway that divides us and look at each school indiividually where ever it is and help it.
See I don't care if you use diversity, Black/White, Income, or ITB/OTB, if we start with "worst first" and work to improve individual school performance we will end up at the same schools I want us to be working on anyway ....
ITB schools
Mon, 03/08/2010 - 09:10 — lferreriI think you're right. You also might want to look closely at the schools ITB. Some areas ITB have a lot of high poverty schools. There is a definite geographic distribution to the low and high poverty schools ITB. Apparently this is okay with the WCPSS.
Oh most definitely!
Mon, 03/08/2010 - 12:08 — jenmanOh most definitely! Capital Blvd/US1 still seems to be the dividing line between black and white, rich and poor ITB. The diversity discussions always seem to focus on suburbs vs ITB but the disparities within ITB are ignored. Its much easier to place all the blame on 'white flight' to the suburbs and on newcomers choosing wealthy suburbs to avoid addressing the hard issues ITB. Central Raleigh is where segregation took place and I think our community still carries a lot of baggage from that era, understandably. There are a lot of things left unsaid and issues unaddressed because it is difficult.
My .02 as a newcomer from the midwest.
Things unsaid
Mon, 03/08/2010 - 17:11 — lferreriI agree that there are a lot of aspects of this issue that people are reluctant to talk about. I think that really hampers attempts to reform the system. We lived outside of Cleveland for nine years in an integrated suburb. Some of the issues there were similar to what we face here; some were very different. It's a shame that the collective experiences of this highly-educated community with people from all over the country can't be harnessed to create a better school system. It seems as if so many people just want to shout at the "other side" rather than having a rational discussion.
It might appear naive but I
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 09:36 — red_balloonIt might appear naive but I see it as a frank question. All I hear at the Enloe parades is how much diversity is loved. This also is the constant refrain from many of the adults speaking up at the BOE meetings. So, if these people move to the ITB areas, they get all the definitions of diversity that seem to matter to them. In return, the ITB areas get affluent residents which in turn will ensure the good schools stay good. Thus, to Tedesco's point, it seems unusual that their actions are at variance with their words.
ok well first of all, the
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 12:31 — carson79ok well first of all, the "enloe parade" is students, right? So how are they going to be the ones who determine where their families live? I don't know about your house but mine was/is not like that.
And honestly, you should stop spouting that line, I know it feels good and reasonable and a lot of posters jumped on board at first when they first thought of it - but you'll notice they stopped and John T looks awful for saying that.
It feels like he is accusing all of us that do not live in diverse areas of the county (which is a huge majority of our neighborhoods) of not caring about diversity - ALL of us that live in these areas, not just magnet parents. I personally DO NOT think we can equate where you choose to live with your values - the decisions are too complicated - maybe you want to be close to your job or your parents or the area you've known your whole life or some place that feels like where you've grown up? Maybe this puts you in a non-diverse area but in other spheres of your life like work, community involvement, activities, church, etc you have more diverse experiences?
He doesn't know me or any of my friends and I was personally offended at his implication that I and anyone who does not live in a diverse area is a racist - or does not value diversity, whatever he was implying....
some of us have lived here a long time and were in a diverse area that has now gentrified or been filled with new non-diverse areas, what, does John T think they should all have to move to Garner (do you know how much longer living in Garner would make most of our commutes??? He is lucky to have a job convenient to there, but most of us work in RTP and some even in Durham county - he is the one who hates long bus rides so I am sure he could understand a long commute)
He doesn't know me or any of
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 15:30 — jenmanHe doesn't know me or any of my friends and I was personally offended
at his implication that I and anyone who does not live in a diverse
area is a racist - or does not value diversity, whatever he was
implying....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My first thought is for you to maybe step back a bit and think of what John said as just something to think about. Save getting offended for when somebody's really slamming on you. :-)
Your last paragraph is full of great points. Points that I have often thought of when some (not directing this at you) accuse people who choose to live in Western Wake or North Raleigh of wanting to avoid minorities or poor people. People choose to live where they live for a number of reasons. Western Wake is immensely popular because of its proximity to RTP. Many people moved farther out in N Raleigh for affordability. That's what usually happens in cities--you have to move farther out to be able to afford a house. Its not as stark of a difference as it is in Chicago but its still more affordable to live in the suburbs than it is in central Raleigh for the most part.
Instead of thinking of John's argument as an accusation and getting defensive, try to see his point. Can you really not find any irony (right word?) in people lamenting that without the diversity policy and magnet program their kids would be in a homogenous environment and how awful that would be? I do think its fair to ask "why don't you choose to live in a more diverse environment"? It doesn't mean that I think they are awful people or that they don't really value divesity. Its just something to think about.
It Hurts Doesn't It!
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 15:26 — JanisTangoIt feels like he is accusing all of us that do not live in diverse areas of the county (which is a huge majority of our neighborhoods) of not caring about diversity - ALL of us that live in these areas, not just magnet parents. I personally DO NOT think we can equate where you choose to live with your values - the decisions are too complicated
Imagine how the board feels being called a bunch of white racists! Imagine how some of us have felt being called that because we think there is another way! Hurts doesn't it?
"Enloe parade" is a charade
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 15:07 — red_balloon"Enloe parade" is a charade enacted by students and parents and generally anyone who espouses diversity but has a private agenda. This will soon have an entry in Webster's.
It's naive to suggest the student will be the houseowner. Just as naive as assuming that the child's education has no direct or indirect influence on choosing a place to live.
I hadn't thought of Tedesco's point until I heard the news14 segment. Now that I think about it, it truly is mind boggling that we have a ruckus being created over something that can be fixed better by working outside the school system. The sheer simplicity of the solution is anything but awful. Why badger the school system for your way of life? Let the school system get back to academics while the student lives a life enriched by diversity.
You state the "decisions are too complicated". Isn't that an inherent part of life? One can hide between the complexity of the decision but I look at it as priorities in life. If the parade really had diversity as a paramount goal, a relocation would work better than a parade. But that is not happenning. Which brings the question: why is the Enloe parade touting diversity but refusing to embrace it? Is the equivalent of a magnet carrot needed to live diversity beyond the school boundaries?
You were personally offended by an "implication". I wonder how some of the BOE members and posters should react to the explicit labels they have received.
John T. succeeds on some points and not others
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 15:31 — Dove314He makes a point with insuring we hold ourselves equally accountable that we insure diversity in the rest of our lives.
Can I ask for the sources for where one finds the figures for what schools are consuming what proportion of resources? The numbers aren't adding up to me in the stats provided, particularly with respect to the repeated digs at Enloe.
But I fail to comprehend why it is bad to expect the schools to also have diversity in their populations. And I also think it is disingenuous for board supporters to not acknowledge that the attitude espoused by JT in this video is not a shared unified vision among supporters of the board majority. Whether it is nice to acknowledge or not, there are those supporting the board because they do not want the children from other areas of the city in their base schools. You have only to read the N&O's forum to see posts stating this.
The numbers are not
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 16:41 — red_balloonThe numbers are not detailed. What I have at this juncture is the bigger picture: number of electives at magnet ES <= 12 (twelve or lesser). Number of electives at non-magnet ES = 0 (zero).
Sure, I would like detailed information. One needs access to WCPSS' accounting system for that. It would be interesting to know the sources of funds and expenditure right down to school and course levels.
Edit: The BOE supporters have their own reasons for extending support. By no means can one state that all supporters share the same reason or that you and I would agree with all the reasons or find them acceptable.
??
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 15:48 — loriacthere are those supporting the board because they do not want the children from other areas of the city in their base schools. You have only to read the N&O's forum to see posts stating this.
Are you referring to these forums? I read them every day, have not seen any posts from board supporters who are upset w/ the kids in their school. I've seen them from people who are upset that their own children are bused great distances, or who don't have a chance at the magnets - but not what you say.
N&O has a separate forum
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 18:35 — Dove314Where the poll in one of the other blog topics is located.
This is one of the posts copied over from there without permission from the author. If this is not okay, hopefully Mr. Hui will delete the post? I'm not sure how to link otherwise so apologize if not okay.
"fifth grade was ruined. One elementary school was designated as an overflow school (for kids opting out of the year round schedule) because of it's lower frl ratio and the expectation that more frl kids would opt out than non-frl kids. The school was overwhelmed with frl students
and what was a pretty good 5th grade class turned in a complete waste of time. The class became so undisciplined that nothing useful was learned for the rest of the school year and the net effect of that semester of school was harm and not good."
Go to the root of the
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 18:37 — red_balloonGo to the root of the problem: discipline. And never mind Barber throwing a tantrum about the demographics of suspensions.
Must ad
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 18:42 — Dove314I was hoping to add some language to reflect that I've not seen anyone in these blogs expressing that sentiment and have seen a lot of thoughtful and well-studied posts.
I just think that not everyone has as pure a motivations as the many I see here.
Agree.
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 22:35 — SDR256I'm sure you're right, but it doesn't mean one apple spoils the barrel. We have to lead the way, don't we? Just because one person espousing similar rhetoric is offensive doesn't mean all are offensive. Just because I support diversity but do not support diversity busing does not mean I am a racist. Just because someone else supports diversity busing does not necessarily mean they are a (what? socialist? muck-under-a-rock? not sure what mud to apply here in the opposite direction that equals with "racist" to use here.)
Many posts ago I went on and on about shades of grey. There is no black and white in the human experience - it is a kaliedescope. A beautiful wonderful kaliescope. Thank God. The ones who want to polarize are the POLITICAL far extremist right and left. Most of us mucks are in the middle. :)
I Disagree
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 15:46 — JanisTangoWhether it is nice to acknowledge or not, there are those supporting the board because they do not want the children from other areas of the city in their base schools.
bad to expect the schools to also have diversity in their populations.
I disagree from the standpoint that I have never met a single person that felt that way and I've talked to hundreds upon hundreds of parents. Are there ignorant people out there...sure there are. They exist on both sides of the issue I'm sure. I also don't recall any board member saying it's 'bad' to have diversity in their school. NO ONE!
can't have it both ways
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 13:04 — loriacI like SDR's post better, but have to make this point.
Now they are only students. Before, they were applauded when they had to have their say (in a TAXPAYER forum) about how important diversity is to them.
But - you are right - they are only students who can't possibly understand that they are the recipients of a lions share of the resources in Wake County, all in the name of diversity - yet the ED kids at Enloe and other magnets are not getting the same benefits.
Game
Sun, 03/07/2010 - 12:50 — SDR256Oh, so the 'call them all racists' game ball has finally hit you, eh, Carson? Stings doesn't it?
Same thing goes for those who support diversity but not diversity busing - called racists but not racists. Same thing goes for those who do not equate socioeconomic labeling with valuing diversity - called racists but not racists. Same thing goes for those who would put academics at the top of WCPSS priorities so that all children can have the benefit of high expectations - called racists but not racists. There are some who have deep pockets invested in the current system who are throwing hardballs to keep us all from really looking hard at the problem and any solutions that might upset their apple cart.
Don't let getting hit with the ball take you out of the game, though. Keep asking questions. Stay in the court. I think in the end, as TrailerParkGirl implied in her brilliant post some days ago, that we'll find the issues transcend the artificial political lines which feed the political parties, the media, politically motivated groups like the NAACP, WEP and its corporate backers, GOP and others. You may be surprised that we - the citizens - are on the same team and that its actually been corporate interests and political parties on both sides who have been throwing those bruising balls at us.
Gotta keep the people in their place afterall - voting 'correctly' and within the defined lines.