As if Tuesday's Wake County school board meeting agenda couldn't get any more packed, here comes a proposed 2010-11 bell schedule that would see most elementary school students start at 9:30 a.m.
Under the new schedule, 71 of Wake's 103 elementary schools would run from 9:30 a.m. to 4 p.m. The later start time will likely be an aggravation for families.
The changes are taking place at the same time there are $3.8 million in proposed school transportation budget cuts.
With the cuts and Wake's use of the three-tier bus system, administrators want more time to make runs to handle routes on the later tiers. This means any school that's starting at 8 a.m. or later this year will begin and end later this fall.
With most elementary schools on the third tier, it's the youngest kids that would bear the brunt of the cuts.
Board policy says that bell schedules must be adopted by March 31.
Click here for the proposed bell schedules.
Click here to see the 2009-10 schedules.
Click here for the 2008-09 schedules.
It may be fairer to compare 2010-11 with 2008-09. That year was pre the changes made to accommodate the weekly Wednesday early dismissals.
If not for the budget cuts, schools would likely have reverted to their 2008-09 times. For instance, a school now proposed to run from 9:30 a.m. to 4 p.m. probably would have been back at 9:15 a.m. to 3:45 p.m.
UPDATE
Modified the sentence because school officials say the changes aren't a direct result of the $3.8 million in budget cuts. But they are saying they're being proposed to save money. They're saying the later start times would allow them to absorb the equivalent of picking up 24 new bus loads of students without having to buy new buses for this fall.
School board chairman Ron Margiotta said they may postpone Tuesday's vote to give more time to review the changes. It looks like board members didn't get the specifics on the new schedule until today,



Comments
Inconsiderate of working parents
Sun, 03/21/2010 - 09:18 — tlhollingAs a working parent, moving the bell schedule even just 15 minutes later really wreaks havoc on our already juggled schedules. I took a job specifically because it had hours 9 am-3 pm, so I can get my kids on the bus in the morning and meet them at the bus in the afternoon. Dealing with the 1 hour early Wed release this year was bad enough (thank goodness they did away with that for next year), but now with the bell schedule possibly changing to start at 9:30, I'm looking at having to do before school child care - an expense I planned to avoid by taking this part time work schedule. For any parent working full time, you are totally messing with them. The parents support the school system; you need to take them into consideration when making decisions. I was a big Wake Co fan, but with all the recent schedule changes and me having to juggle our already busy schedule even more, I'm losing my patience.
Not All Starting At 9:30
Thu, 03/25/2010 - 11:28 — RMC10Did you verify that your school is starting @ 9:30? I only saw a couple on the above linked list that were. Busses usually come about 1/2 hour before schools start - so remember to figure that into your equation
Thousands of parents have figured out how to make the earlier times work - and will probably have to make different plans for this 1/2 later time. We had to pick a different school because look at what Lufkin's start time has been - the bus picks them up in our neighborhood at 6:40 a.m. Then here's always the YMCA before school program. My child is 12, and while I don't like paying for it every month - our work schedules require us to still use it.
I think this new bell change is good for a majority of the families and lessens children going to school at something ridiculous like 6:40 a.m. and then having younger kids be home at 2:40 in the afternoon by themselves.
seems a bit ironic
Sat, 03/20/2010 - 22:13 — JaneknowsbestThe BOE gets the info on bell schedules Friday and has till Tuesday to review. The chair says that's not enough time to adequately study them.
The majority presents resolutions which will affect thousands of children, without even bringing copies to share with fellow board members, just minutes before they are voted on.
You prefer they not review
Sun, 03/21/2010 - 08:40 — red_balloonYou prefer they not review the impact? Don't forget that WW and 6200 are not nascent issues unlike the proposed changes to the bell schedule.
It is sad and filled with irony
Sun, 03/21/2010 - 13:00 — Dove314that the board majority is more willing to devote additional time to understanding the impacts of changing when school starts BEFORE it makes any steps than on the impacts of a dramatic change to student assignment.
We might be in disagreement
Sun, 03/21/2010 - 17:37 — red_balloonWe might be in disagreement here. It looks like both busing and proximity supporters are putting forth a 5 mile marker. So, really there aren't tectonic shifts here. The devil is in the details and that takes time. The BOE has outlined a nine to fifteen month planning period followed by a multi-year transition. I may not agree with the final plan but I am not distressed by the approach to the timelines or the intent to do better.
Where are the proximity
Sun, 03/21/2010 - 18:24 — carson79Where are the proximity supporters putting forth a 5 mile marker?
what they have actually done is removed diversity completely as an assignment factor, so I don't have any idea what the 5 mile factor would be for.
Five is the arbitrary number
Sun, 03/21/2010 - 20:54 — red_balloonFive is the arbitrary number I have read here. No one knows yet what would make sense or will be determined.
Hey I have an idea !
Sat, 03/20/2010 - 12:34 — Wake_ParentLeave Leesville Rd Elementary on the year round calendar- that's what the parents wanted.
Leave Mills Park Elementary on the year round calendar-that's what the parents wanted.
Open Mills Park Middle on the year round calendar as it was originally planned.
That should save some money.
The school board should stop bowing down to the squeaky wheels and figure out what they can actually afford to do before making radical changes.
I don't know much about
Mon, 03/22/2010 - 07:24 — changewcpssI don't know much about Mills Park but I have become quite educated on the Leesville Road situation. It is much larger than a few hundred application parents who are new to the scene. The parents on that campus are a massive and dedicated force. They have worked a long time to accomplish their one calendar 4 one campus so I don't imagine that will ever be taken away again.
You disregard campaign
Sat, 03/20/2010 - 14:07 — Dove314You disregard campaign supporters at your peril.
A good reminder to everyone
Sun, 03/21/2010 - 08:41 — red_balloonA good reminder to everyone to show up at the polls.
Yes indeed. The voters
Mon, 03/22/2010 - 07:18 — changewcpssYes indeed. The voters spoke and the new members are firmly in place, doing what they were elected to do.
The survey numbers are being used to allow everyone the opportunity to choose the school calendar they want.
Please remind me, what is the problem?
Exactly
Sun, 03/21/2010 - 13:01 — Dove314The next election should be very interesting.
Complain first, find out why, second
Sat, 03/20/2010 - 10:03 — Athey01The WCPSS is trying to close a $20 million budget gap. The transportation group was to identify $3.8 million in cost savings. One of their cost saving measures was to utilize the buses they have rather than purchase additional buses. Therefore, it required later starting times for ES. In the current economy, there are limited resources which require all of us to sacrifice something. This may not be an item we want to change, but then something else must be sacrificed. There are no easy answers. Rather than complaining let's find alternative solutions.
Budget first, children second
Sun, 03/21/2010 - 23:22 — robagaleWhen a proposal is suddenly on the table for rubber stamping at a board meeting, and impacts hundreds of families I think it is reasonable to object if I have the opportunity.
I read the reasons for the budget shortfall - apparently four new schools are opening and that means more buses are required. Can someone explain why the transportation budget for these schools was not allocated when the school contruction was approved?
When cost savings are proposed it should be incumbent on the proposal to identify the potential impact to students and families in monetary terms. This doesn't save money - it shifts a burden to families.
I think taxpayers will more
Mon, 03/22/2010 - 07:43 — red_balloonI think taxpayers will more easily fund education than convenience. At some point, until more dollars are found, families may have to take on more inconvenience. This is the nature of public funded services.
All the more reason to make
Sat, 03/20/2010 - 10:25 — danofncAll the more reason to make sure the district doesn't have to purchase/move trailers to make room for students before voting on calendar conversions.
What?
They've already voted? Oh....OK. Nevermind.
Color Codes on Instructional Schedule??
Sat, 03/20/2010 - 08:19 — bgobleWhy are Lincoln Heights and Heritage Elementary highlighted in GREEN??
God, when will this crap
Sat, 03/20/2010 - 07:20 — aquaman4life68God, when will this crap end? I have never seen so many issues with schools like we have the past 5 years or more. Everything is so dang complicated and hardly any of it has anything to do to help the kids and teachers!!
Amen!
Sat, 03/20/2010 - 09:34 — woodstockAmen!
Here's an idea-
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 22:54 — raleighlauraHow about we get the 3.8 million we need by taking it from the communications/pr budget? We could close the free-standing magnet resource center and let their full time staff do something else, as they already have 4200 more kids trying to get in than they have seats for. Why are we marketing a program that is so wholly oversubscribed?
It helps WCPSS be the second
Sat, 03/20/2010 - 00:56 — red_balloonIt helps WCPSS be the second largest employer in Wake.
More tone-deafness
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 21:08 — robagaleWe could save money if we could locate and eliminate the Department of Stupid Ideas who come up with these proposals. Our son's elementary school starts late enough as it is, so that after school it's a real struggle to get him to do his homework. Or perhaps this is a part of a master plan to relieve overcrowding - make so many people fed up with Wake County schools that they move out of the area?
Now we'll have to pay more
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 18:38 — amedinaohNow we'll have to pay more money to get the school zone sign times changed! Geesh! As if the Wednesday releases didn't change signs, this will too! How many thousands of dollars will it cost?
I have a question.
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 15:16 — ncarolinagirlWhy are middle schools in school 15 minutes longer than elementary schools? For example, look at Baucom Elem. and Apex Middle. Start times are 15 minutes different, but dismissal time is the same.
OT: Proposed Revisions to the NCLB Act
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 14:33 — Voice_of_Reason_While this is a national story, it has a direct impact on WCPSS.
President Obama has previously announced intention to enforce strict and elevated education standards and move toward paying teachers based on merit.
"Now, Obama has retreated from his position of principle and embraced a mealy-mouthed compromise designed to placate school administrators, teachers unions, and their political acolytes at the expense of educational standards.
Over the weekend, Obama announced a series of changes in the No Child Left Behind Law most of which will weaken it and might even cripple the efforts to raise school standards. The Law - and most education terminology - is coded with euphemisms and generalities that must be translated, so let us help to provide a code book.
The NY Times reports that Obama's plan would "use annual tests along with other indicators" to measure achievement in the nation's schools. What are the other indicators? The Times says they include "pupil attendance, graduation rates, and learning climate."
This proposed change will totally undermine the central principle of No Child Left Behind: that schools be judged by objective indices of student performance. By factoring in attendance rates the changes give credit for putting warm bodies in seats. By focusing on graduation rates, they permit schools to push up their ratings by passing out good grades to incompetent students. And by looking at the "learning climate" the changes would inject subjective and vague criteria which would permit failing schools to disguise that fact. While it is not always good to base measurements of performance only on tests of reading and math, these examination scores at least afford independent, objective indications of student ability. By permitting fudging through these new subjective or self-vindicating standards, Obama undermines the whole concept of educational reform.
The Times indicates that Obama wants to find the "5,000 chronically failing schools" while also identifying the 10,000 to 15,000 excellent ones and the 80,000 schools in between. This quota system ignores two abysmal facts: Under No Child Left Behind, one school in three was found to be failing and there has been no appreciable increase in either reading or math scores for the past decade.
By sweeping the problem of bad schools under the rug through a numerical quota (or goal) and subjective criteria for measuring performance, Obama lets the legacy of failing public schools continue while parents are dosed with the soothing syrup of reassurance.
Obama also wants to shift the focus from forcing students to achieve proficiency at each grade level to "measuring each student's academic growth regardless of the performance level at which they started." In other words, Obama wants to allow students who cannot read, write, or do math with appropriate ability to be coddled as long as they are improving. When will we learn that flexible standards that bend to accommodate those who cannot meet them do the disadvantaged no good and plenty of harm?
Two parts of the proposed reforms make sense. He would replaced the emphasis on teachers' academic credentials with a focus on evaluating how their pupils are doing and would intervene in otherwise proficient schools where disadvantaged students are falling far behind the bulk of the pupil population.
But these two saving graces are not enough to redeem a program designed to restore the good old days of flattering self-evaluation in education and reassuring, if phony, good news to feed to parents and the community.
Until now, Obama has stood firm on the subject of education reform, resisting efforts to cripple the Bush standards. Now he has retreated even from this position to the detriment of our children."
Forwarded from DickMorris.com
"The changes are due to $3.8
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 13:47 — user12345"The changes are due to $3.8 million in school transportation budget cuts"
If we had not had to spend $15M on moving the new HS to Rolesville maybe we could have avoided this problem.
Certainly
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 15:30 — Solon77Certainly the $ could be saved by other means. How much $ are the new reassignments saving ? Probably need to accelerate the reassignments.
Funny...
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 17:40 — chaboard...I was gonna ask how much they COST. Fact is the decisions were made with no idea on whether they would cost or save much less how much either way.
Have they EVER been made
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 19:50 — jenmanHave they EVER been made with cost as a factor? Seriously, I don't recall ever hearing the cost or savings coming into play. Kids getting bused 18 miles one way out to Green Hope--I never heard cost come up. Only F&R and crowding.
Not trying to turn this into a 'the old board did it so suck it up' thing. Just honestly asking if cost has ever been a factor for any assignment. Not just long distance ones. Any assignment? I honestly don't recall hearing it brought up before.
*cough* MYR assignments?
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 19:54 — Dove314Wasn't the cost savings associated with year round use of existing facilities versus the need to construct additional schools or trailers the primary reason cited for the change?
Maybe...
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 21:47 — louiselee44But YR schools that don't live up to the capacity expectations are losing $ for Wake County. Utility data proves that. Not to mention the added maintenance costs (including overtime pay for weekend/holiday work, I would guess) and increased wear and tear on the buildings due to constant use.
And don't forget the transportation increase in July and August the first year of conversions. From Don Haydon:
“Transportation Department staff compared the monthly cost for July & August 2006 with the same months in 2007 to estimate a difference in cost for transportation of year-round students. For July & August 2006, the average cost for each of the 2 months was $232,000 and for 2007, $472,000.”
So, from almost half-a-million for both months to about a million.
I thought we were talking
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 20:02 — jenmanI thought we were talking about reassignments, not conversions. I have a hard time keeping up with who is responding to who sometimes. I also get blog postings confused sometimes. lol
My bad
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 20:04 — Dove314I keep up less well than you and sometimes "interrupt" an ongoing conversation. Sounds like here I misunderstood your question.
How often....
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 14:07 — Bob_SconceAre you going to repeat this fallacy?
FIRST OF ALL, it's been demonsrated repeatedly here that the true cost is nowhere near as high as $15M.
SECONDLY, even if the $15M figure were accurate, it's talking about money to be spent in ~the 2012-2013 school year, not the 2010-2011 school year. Had the board made the opposite decision, the change to the bus schedules would still be happening.
The original post made me
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 12:03 — jenmanThe original post made me think that the times were changing drastically. 15 minutes later isn't as bad as I thought. I understand that it will be a problem for some people, just stating that I was relieved to find out it wasn't an hour later for us, only 15 min.
15 minutes
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 12:23 — louiselee44...isn't huge, that's true, but my argument is that most elementary students already start too late - even without these changes, I've pushed for earlier start times for them.
School doesn't physically open until 20 minutes before the bell-
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 22:48 — raleighlauraSo think about this- school starts at 9:30, but students remain sitting on busses and in the carpool lane until 9:10. They are allowed to get out of cars at that time, and based on how long it takes now, everyone doesn't get in until around 9:20. That will make it impossible to take your child to school and still be at work by 9am.
Before-school child care will be required for people who have to be at work (I know everyone works, but I mean employment outside the home), and since some schools don't offer before school care, it could be a huge problem. I hope the board empowers principals to have local on-site programs that parents can pay into to provide that early care, perhaps starting at 8:30, so working parents can still go to work.
Oh I definitely agree with
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 13:22 — jenmanOh I definitely agree with you. My neighbors and I are very thankful that our elem is not on that 3rd tier. I would hate being on that schedule for elem.
Of course the proposed bell
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 11:36 — woodstockOf course the proposed bell schedule is the complete opposite of what research suggests it should be. High school students should be starting later and the elementary school students earlier.
"High school students should
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 13:43 — user12345"High school students should be starting later and the elementary school students earlier"
You will learn later when your kids get older the Highschoolers drive the younger ones to ES and MS so those schools need to start earlier.
How does a high schooler
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 14:29 — danofncHow does a high schooler getting started at 7 drive an ES student to school?
If I may...
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 14:38 — ego7601I think user1234 was agreeing with Woodstock. HS students should start later and ES & MS should start earlier. If ES & MS started at 7:30 &/or 8:30, the HS student could drive their younger siblings to school and then proceed to school. I know some schools used to do sports practice in the mornings before school, so I wonder if they could do that for HS kids if school started at 9:30.
I can't really tell. Every
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 14:41 — danofncI can't really tell. Every time I read it I think he means something different.
Sorry for the confusion ...
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 16:34 — user12345Sorry for the confusion ... personally, I don't care since we did not have any problems with schedules until the girls started back to public HS .... below, I agreed with woody that the research saws teenager need to sleep later and above that ES need to start earlier to allow the HS to drop off the younger ones ... ultimately, someone is unhappy ... by starting the ES early someone complains it is too early for young ones to be in the dark at a bus stop and too late it interfers with someone's work ....
The HS student can only do
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 16:42 — danofncThe HS student can only do one or the other either way, right?
Right and neither will make
Sat, 03/20/2010 - 12:05 — user12345Right and neither will make everyone happy ...
Holy Moly
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 12:22 — chaboardsomething we're in perfect agreement on. I'm shocked.
Now if only we could get us a data-driven board willing to put education ahead of parental yelping and act on the research! ;)
Many of us have a wide spectrum of views ...
Fri, 03/19/2010 - 12:29 — louiselee44...that can't be "pigeon-holed".
I'm passing on to the board everything I have on this topic, that's for sure...