Here are a few odds and ends from Monday's CEM meeting on growth projections, the cost of reassignment and Wake's academic status.
A parent asked Asst. Supt. Chuck Dulaney if the current economic conditions have been factored into the growth projections used in the draft reassignment plan. Dulaney said no but that the municipalities may be updating the housing projections they provided the school system two years ago.
Another parent asked if the school district has done a formal cost benefit analysis of the reassignment proposal. Dulaney said no.
One speaker, Steve Elliston, got some of the loudest cheers of the evening.
Elliston started by criticizing Policy 6200, which lays out Wake's goals for student assignment. He said the way that Wake tries to achieve diversity isn't working.
Elliston called Wake's drop in performance on state exams the past four years, including the widening of the achievement gap, a "tragic failure."
(Wake, like the rest of the state, has seen a decline over the past four years when the math and reading end-of-grade exams changed.)
Elliston said it's "arrogance" for people to keep saying that Wake has one of the best school systems in the nation.
He then drew laughs and cheers with this statement:
"If this were an FDA-sanctioned drug study, this would have been terminated four years ago."
Comments
OT- Why don't we learn from something that works
Wed, 12/10/2008 - 11:37 — Voice_of_Reason_Minnesota and Massachusetts seem to be doing something right on math, I know we aren't.
See article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/education/10math.html?em
I though both state had
Wed, 12/10/2008 - 12:45 — ncdad1I though both state had higher tax rates? TAXachusetts! Also, NC is really a rural agriculture state at the base which makes comparison's problematic.
It's the parents, Dummy!
Wed, 12/10/2008 - 11:17 — RiversideRealistYeah, because we all know THEY know better than parents what's good "for the children".
Oy.
I did not mean to infer
Wed, 12/10/2008 - 12:54 — ncdad1I did not mean to infer they were dumb. I just thought it would be good to have some other view points. I thought the meterial was well presented and documented though I think using blogs as a reference is a little suspect.
As mentioned before the parents voted 3 to 1 against integration here in the 1970's and business leaders forced the issue and made it happen. So, it would be good to get non-parents views too to get a bigger picture.
www.ncedforum.org
Wed, 12/10/2008 - 10:02 — ConcernedDadGo to www.ncedforum.org and check out the November newsletter. There is a great article about Academic Achievement and results in Wake County. Also, under Documents & Links, there is a presentation titled "Going Beyond Policy 6200" that explains why Policy 6200 is not working.
"The NCEdForum (North
Wed, 12/10/2008 - 11:01 — ncdad1"The NCEdForum (North Carolina Education Forum) is a group of parents working together to bring positive changes in public education for all children in Wake County."
This is from a bunch of parents, right? I would like to see something from some educators or business leaders really.
NCEdforum
Wed, 12/10/2008 - 14:26 — wakecountymomNcdad1,
I'm glad that there is a group out there working hard to bring positive changes in public education. We're sure not seeing any positive changes from G&P or the BOE.
From what I understand, this group of parents is composed of business leaders.
from one of the bunch
Wed, 12/10/2008 - 11:48 — Dadof3"bunch of parents" yep -- I like those bananas alot!
Experts always tell me to eat tofu or some other fad-tripe. Experts are just happy to memorize their convoluted theories-derived-from-worldview and then apply that to us bananas. They can have their tofu and eat it, too!
Who is the customer?
Wed, 12/10/2008 - 11:22 — Voice_of_Reason_The government should work for us, not the other way around.
Read the Misegades rebuttal
Wed, 12/10/2008 - 11:20 — Eric_BRead this then come back and talk:
http://www.ullisart.com/images/Misegades_Balance_rebuttal.pdf
Kent is a business leader and has put his money where his mouth is and helped open new schools:
http://www.ensight.com/kent-misegades-profiles-in-simulation.html
http://www.carynews.com/news/apex/story/11051.html
Economics Lessons Needed
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 21:16 — local23The WCPSS Growth & Management has had plenty of data (including the information from SAS over 8 years ago) as to which areas where growing and where schools were needed to be built. They actually have most of the schools, including which new areas will need new ones, their real issue is that they mis-manage everything, beauracy at it's best!
They keep reassigning and reassigning and reassigning until you have nodes actually going back and forth and in and out of a school they started with 6 years ago. They need to do realistic feeder patterns (circle radius) and stick with it - put caps on schools and when new developments are built in areas they already had the feeder school there, then those children are assigned to the next feeder school. They need to stop the madness and their social-economic policy..it's failing miserably and one that they barely really track. The know the real numbers, they just don't want to share those!
Can you imagine a project or business model that is over budgeted, overrated and not meeting the stockholders or stakeholders goals? YEP, the knife, cut it, downsize or seriously change it!
They really need to consider (BOE) about breaking up the district - it's just getting way to large!
A few years ago, I remember
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 23:10 — ncdad1A few years ago, I remember reading that on the 1st day of school, Wake County had 1000 more students than expects and Johnson County had some thing like 50. The article implied that Wake County used in-house staff for projects while Johnston County had hired an outside consulting firm. What was interesting was that the outside firm had used every piece of information possible from building permits, to church attendance, to counting cars to develop their estimate. I think Wake should follow Johnston County's lead.
slightly OT
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 17:08 — AngelaWCurriculum Audit Featured in National Publication
The Wake County Public School System was featured in a November 2008 special report of the American School Board Journal. The article, authored by Board Chair Rosa Gill, highlights Wake County’s recent undertaking and progress on the curriculum audit.
WCPSS is one year into a multi-year process of implementing the auditors’ recommendations. Gill describes the journey to implement the audit’s eight recommendations and 117 action steps saying, “we now have an impartial listing of the areas where our schools, district, and board must improve. It stands as a road map and compass.”
The American School Board Journal is an independent education magazine published monthly by the National School Boards Association for some 50,000 school board members and school administrators.
ncdad1--That is part of the
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 16:28 — jenmanncdad1--That is part of the problem, but only a small part. Another part of the problem is that they refuse to fill year round with volunteers. Patti Head even said at one work session, "we could fill year round schools voluntarily". She said it more than once, but of course nobody ever responded.
3,900?!?!
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 14:51 — supportwcpssSo that fact that the estimates were down and we still had 3900 new kids doesn't seem explosive to you? Even in this economy we are exploding.
Isn't the problem that the
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 16:21 — ncdad1Isn't the problem that the 3700 kids spread over the entire county is manageable but when they all want to go to the same school in a few areas with established residences that you get the conflict - old vs. new. Panther Creek only has 500 too many students and they have found room for them to have classes in the hallways.
Your point is taken, but
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 16:50 — Eric_BYour point is taken, but don't cite Panther Creek as an example. Growth & Planning assigned way too many students to Panther Creek last year resulting in growth problems this year.
As to your general point, WCPSS can plan for the general distribution of growth. That's what their models are used for. Check out:
http://www.wcpss.net/demographics/lrenroll/planning_regions_ppt.pdf
In slides 4 and 5 you can see that the largest percentage of growth is in the Panther Creek area. We knew this years ago so why could it not be planned in going forward?
You can give all the facts you want
Wed, 12/10/2008 - 08:49 — fiestamomEric B,
You can cite all the facts you want, NCDad doesn't care about facts. NCDad's sole purpose on here is to accuse people who want neighborhood schools and Voluntary Year Round as racists.
Don't waste your time.
Growth Management
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 17:30 — SDR256the solution is to try to stop Growth Management. By going to a local school model, if certain schools explode, people with children will no longer want to buy there. So what? It might be painful for developers, but it would naturally correct. Schools like Leesburg and Panther Creek, which may be overcrowded would have their parents nearby and community of teachers to help figure out a way to deal with it.
This page shows 3,704
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 15:48 — Eric_BThis page shows 3,704 student increase:
http://www.wcpss.net/demographics/
That's 2.8% growth from 2007-08 to 2008-09. That seems like a decent amount of growth, but it should be manageable.
I would hardly characterize 2.8% growth as explosive. 3700 students is what, 3-1/2 elementary schools or 3 middle schools or 2 high schools. It seems like we should be able to open about 2 or 3 new schools per year to handle this without a problem.
The real point is that the rate of growth is decreasing and the projections used in the student assignment plan should reflect that. We shouldn't be using old data that reflects 8,000+ student growth per year that would cause us to build 2 or 3 times the number of schools needed for growth or reassign 2 or 3 times as many students as would be needed.
What's explosive is the size of our school system
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 15:44 — Dadof33.3% growth doesn't strike me as explosive. No offense, but the "stop growth" mantra is a lazy "solution" as well. In raw terms, 3.9k kids is more than the town population where I grew up, but so what? We've drowned individuality where it counts in this massive superstructure.
It is all a testiment to the fact that WCPSS is way, way, way too big.
It seems like the only way
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 14:40 — ncdad1It seems like the only way to get sanity is to stop growth.
The Truth Is Leaking Out
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 13:56 — Lisa_BWhile I am encouraged that the truth is being exposed, WHEN will things change?
Knowing that current economic factors have not been used, and no cost benefit analysis has been done, HOW CAN WE INSIST that these things are done BEFORE the draft is revised??
Just using current data will mean LESS reassignments.
Using the "it's too late now to make changes" is just plain WRONG. There IS time, and I think we all deserve to have a realistic plan.
If there was truly "explosive growth" and we all had to deal with the reassignments BECAUSE OF IT, that is one thing. KNOWING that many of the changes are unnecessary due to out-of-date data and poor economy necessitates changes NOW.
The thing is, they have PLENTY of "excuses" with the economy, and plenty of ways to "save face" without trudging forward with a plan based on inaccurate data.
While the economy is in the
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 14:14 — ncdad1While the economy is in the dumps, I would not be surprised to still see an influx of folks coming here since the the employment rate is better than say MI and the area is consistantly rate the best place to live. So, hopefully we will still grow some.
No, growth is slowing
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 14:51 — Eric_BMaybe you haven't read articles like this from 2007:
Housing Slump Means Lower Numbers for Wake Co. Schools
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2006084/
or maybe you don't realize that even after lowering enrollment projections for the 2008-09 school year this summer, WCPSS still overestimated enrollment growth by over 2,000 students.
Growth is DEFINITELY slowing... We have 2 years of data to back that up now and the housing market still hasn't bottomed out. Most people have to sell homes to move here so the nationwide housing market slowdown most definitely affects us here.
Wow
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 13:44 — Eric_BThe plan does not use updated growth projections to reflect the housing slowdown that will presumably affect growth for years.
There was no cost/benefit analysis done to figure out how much the plan costs between transportation costs and year-round conversions and figure out whether the costs are worth it.
On top of that, there is no answer for critics who point out that WCPSS's test scores have dropped, the test score lead over the state average has shrunk and the graduation percentage advantage over the state average has shrunk.
Why are we still continuing down this path?
Remember
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 13:26 — SideburnsWhile I'm happy to read that people are finally "getting it", we cannot tackle Policy 6200 at Community Engagement Meetings. That must be done at the polls in 2009. Let's hope everyone remembers the past few weeks when next November rolls around.
Indeed
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 14:28 — joeciullaFour School Board positions are up for election in October 2009. If every parent in Wake County who is fed up with the "Great Experiment" would volunteer their time to support campaigns of candidates who will restore sanity in our schools, we can do this. And the 2009 elections are far more 'winnable' than 2011. Now's the time!
Is anyone out here considering running?
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 15:52 — JSBinNCMy district rep was just voted in last year, so he's not up. Who out here is considering a run? I am interested in learning more and potenitally helping candidates. It's less than a year now - planning needs to start!
expires November
Tue, 12/09/2008 - 16:00 — AngelaWexpires November 2009
District 1 Millberg
District 2 Tart
District 7 Head
District 9 Goettee