The Wake County magnet school application period is opening on Monday amid some questions and changes about how it will be affected by the new student assignment plan.
As noted in today's article, you've got changes in the timing of the application period and the selection criteria. And, perhaps even more importantly, you've got changes involving feeder patterns and no longer being able to "decline" your magnet acceptance like you did in the past.
The application period is opening two months earlier than normal to accommodate the start of the Jan. 17 application period for the non=magnet schools.
Vickie Adamson, PTA president at Ligon Middle School, said she's concerned that having the application period in December could make it hard on families to apply, especially for Christian families, involved in the holiday period.
Another concern is how the new choice plan does away with the old practice of where a family could turn down a magnet seat and stay at their base school.
James Overman, head of the student assignment task force, said that once a student is accepted into a magnet school or any other school they apply to they can no longer "decline" the offer. Once a student is selected for something to which they applied, Overman said that becomes their school assignment and their former seat is released to be assigned to another student.
Overman added they are selected for anything other than their first choice, they remain on the wait list for their first choice until June 30th.
Overman said a student who wants to make another choice, including applying for a school other than their magnet school, will need to participate in either the magnet or proximity choice selection. Since there are no longer "base attendance areas, Overman said students are no longer able to simply request to go back to base.
Now throw in questions about whether parents might not apply if they don't like the magnet school feeder.
For instance, a family who wants to go to Broughton High may not apply to Joyner Elementary because the magnet feeder leads to Millbrook High. Going to Joyner wouldn't lock them into Millbrook, but that family would not get the same guarantee if they had stayed at a non-magnet proximity school that feeds into Broughton.
New school board member Christine Kushner said she wants to look at how many magnet applications come in as one indication of how the new assignment plan is working out.
You've also got the new selection criteria that gives priority to applicants from higher performing nodes. Superintendent Tony Tata recently explained his justification for the change as he tied in the higher priority for high-performing students for magnet schools with the higher priority fro applicants from low-performing nodes to regional choice schools.
“The magnet program is designed to prevent the creation of high-poverty schools, at least for the Group 1 magnets," Tata said. "If you connect economic disadvantage or economic advantage with achievement and performance as the research shows, what you want to do is get higher-achieving students into the magnet schools and then as you displace students that have traditionally lower performance, you want to give them priority as I just talked about in some of the higher-performing schools.
What we don’t want to find ourselves in is a situation where we have the magnet program yet what we do is we invite more poverty into the magnet schools. That would seem to be a little bit counterproductive.”

Comments
Jen
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 17:07 — EBDarcyHow are they estimating the number of rising 9th grade seats? Are they assuming that every sibling will attend (have they collected that data already) and that all feeder pattern students will as well. How can they know the number of 7th grade seats for that matter?
I sent an email asking the
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 17:52 — jenmanI sent an email asking the same questions. Haven't heard back yet but it was only a few hours ago that I sent the email.
From what I understand of the process so far, they get the total number of seats available in each grade at each school from the Facilities Utilization report. In the case of 6th & 9th grades, they count all of the students who are in the feeder schools. Some may end up applying elsewhere, but WCPSS assumes they will follow the feeder pattern. I don't know if they are counting siblings. I sure hope they are because if not then there won't even be enough seats at Enloe for rising siblings. I have a feeling that these available seat numbers may end up meaning very little in the grand scheme of things.
For 7th grade (and other non-entry grades), I'm guessing they are just looking at what the capacity is according to the Facilities Utilization report and subtracting the number of students they have in 6th grade now.
What these numbers don't reflect is the number of students who may want to leave the magnet program. I think the number of seats at Enloe will really be affected. From what I've learned over the years, many middle school mag students end up wanting to go back to their base high schools. Now we won't know how many until they applyand get accepted in the base rounds. Once they are accepted, their magnet seat automatically opens up.
I have recently heard of Ligon parents wanting to go to Millbrook High instead of Enloe so we could have those kids wanting to leave Enloe as well.
One question that I asked is what happens in a 'stalemate' situation. Let's say there are 5 kids who applied to Enloe from Wakefield High but there weren't any more seats. Then when the base school rounds come, there are 5 Enloe students who apply to Wakefield, but there aren't any more seats available. You could swap those 5 students from each school, but the Enloe kids can't get into Wakefield until the Wakefield kids get into Enloe. That's just a very simplified version but you get the idea.
This isn't unique to magnets. It could be kids north of 98 attending Brassfield who want to go to Wakefield Middle instead of West Millbrook and kids south of 98 attending Pleasant Union who want to go to West Mill instead of Wakefield.
why two lotteries?
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 08:27 — turnerk1Jenman, you raise a really interesting issue. As I was thinking about it more, I started to wonder why we are even having two separate lotteries at all? Wouldn't it be simpler, and solve problems like the one you raise, if we just had one big lottery at once?
I hadn't really thought
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 10:35 — jenmanI hadn't really thought about one big lottery but I have wondered why they've changed the order of the lottery. I guess they aren't really changing the order since previously there was only one lottery. But it's always been that you know your base assignment before you apply for a magnet. Now when kids are entering K they don't have any assignment before they apply for magnets. Students who are currently in the system but want to change schools or switch feeder patterns don't know if they have the school (or one of the schools) they want before the magnet lottery happens.
If you end up getting a school that you absolutely don't want in the base selection rounds, then there's no recourse except to apply for a transfer. But you can't apply for a transfer to any school on your proximity list or to any magnet school. So you'll end up at a school farther away with no transportation.
The cynic in me thinks that this is designed to keep families downtown/SE Raleigh from applying for magnet seats if they aren't able to get a seat in a school close to home. Or to keep families who end up getting assigned to an unpopular school from being able to leave through the magnet process as I mentioned above.
cynic
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 11:55 — turnerk1Well, you could be right about the SE Raleigh families. But, it also could be a remnant of how we've done it before that was so ingrained that no one thought to change it. Assignment is so complex, that eight months (much of it spent contemplating many different kinds of models) is really not enough time to think through all the ramificaitons.
The more I think about it, the more one lottery really makes sense to me. For instance, it would also mean that kids who weren't in K, 6 or 9 would have a better shot at switching schools because the system would have a fuller idea of who wants out of which schools. Maybe there are down sides that I'm just not seeing right now.
confused
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 21:37 — EBDarcyYou know, there are just too many unanswered questions about this new plan. and yet they are rushing to implement it.
Several people I know attended an open house at Martin this week and we're told that there are no seats available next year for either 7th or 8th grade. How do they know this at this point?
Many have suggested a fix, but will the new board listen?
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 22:24 — FSandYOUStop the new plan now!
If Martin is overcrowded
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 21:58 — jenmanIf Martin is overcrowded they could know already that they won't be admitting any new students. I don't think that very many students leave magnet middle schools. If Martin is very crowded, they could have 25 kids leave and still not have seats available. I'm just guessing here based on what info we do have.
This will be interesting
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 18:19 — Solon77Under the old way everyone still had to apply even if you were a shoe in because of a sibiling. I know a number of students at Ligon that are chosing not to go to Enloe but back to their neighborhood (relative term) school. Since there is no base school, they will have to enter the lottery, I mean choice process, and roll the dice. This process will turn off parents from thinking about the magnet schools from the start.
What did the assignment
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 18:43 — jenmanWhat did the assignment slips show for siblings? I forget if they were automatically sending younger siblings rising to the next level to the same school as their older sibs or to the feeder (if they are different).
It will definitely be interesting to see how many seats are available in some of the base high schools and whether or not they can accommodate all of the students who want to to there. Our 8th grader is set to move on to Millbrook High through the magnet program and although MHS is a great school, they don't offer Computer Science courses. Our options to get those courses are Enloe and SRHS in the magnet program or Wakefield through the base selection process. Should be interesting.
Feeder Pattern followed current schools pattern
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 20:16 — croaswifeMy MS student is magnet AG/GT (attended IB for ES) and the assignment slip has Enloe for HS.
My ES student is in IB but will enter MS at the same time the older sib is still there. The assignment slip however said their feeder was the IB schools for MS& HS. I'm hoping we don't have an issue switching to AG/GT. I assume sibling priority should ensure a seat through the magnet application process when the time comes.
Assignment slips
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 19:05 — Solon77The assignment slip said Enloe. Our base HS was Millbrook, but if you go by the new feeder pattern it is Sanderson.
But your daughter is at
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 19:16 — jenmanBut your daughter is at Ligon, right? I was wondering about a rising 9th grader who is currently at Wakefield Middle but has a sibling in 10th grade at Enloe. Would their initial assignment be to Wakefield High or Enloe? I'm thinking it would be WHS but I thought I remember seeing something about automatically following siblings to magnets. Now I'm confusing myself. lol
Level of intelligence
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 22:32 — Solon77I don't think the assignment model has the level of intelligence to know that if a student has a sibling at a magnet to assign them to that magnet. We have two kids and we still get two mailings for notices, if they haven't figured out that one it is not likely they have figured out anything beyond a basic - if you are going to this MS then you go to this HS. I think they would have been better off to let everyone choose at the same time - magnets, changes in assignment.....ect. and then work it from there.
Found what I was thinking
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 22:40 — jenmanFound what I was thinking of:
How can I get a younger sibling into the same school as my older child if the school is not on my choice list for my node?
The schools of older siblings in the same grade range will automatically appear in your younger child's choice list during the selection process.
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It has nothing to do with magnets. I told you I was confusing myself! Not sure what I was thinking.
Transportation ?
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 23:01 — Solon77Does it address transportation ? With grandfathering and let's say the oldest student has two siblings it could be 10 years before it is flushed out. I am picturing two buses going through my neighborhood - 1. to Millbrook and 2. to Sanderson for the newcomers.
I think I understand what
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 10:11 — jenmanI think I understand what you're asking. If not, let me know.
If a school is no longer on your choice list at all but you have kids attending there with bus service now, you will continue to get that bus service until that child ages out of that school. Younger siblings will be given that same tranportation until the older one (or ones) ages out. So if you have a rising 11th grader at Millbrook and it's no longer on your choice list, you would still get neighborhood transportation. If you have a rising 9th grader, she can follow the sibling to Millbrook, but will only get transportation for the two years that the older one is still there. After that, you're on your own.
If your current base school is Millbrook High but now the elem feeds to Sanderson, your neighborhood will still receive 'neighborhood' bus service to MHS and it now adds service to Sanderson. If Millbrook is still on your choice list, it may only get express service, depending on the elem schools for your node. Or it may not get bus service at all.
They haven't said much at all about transportation but that will be key in this plan. It will be interesting to see what kind of transportation is actually available to all of our options. My node has 6 elems: 4 YR and 2 Traditional. The trad schools are the farthest away for us. Will they offer neighborhood, express or no busing to those two schools? Wildwood Forest feeds into Wakefield MS & HS, Forest Pines feeds into WF-R MS & HS. Our closest elem schools feed into either Durant or Wakefield MS and Wakefield HS. Maybe they will give WWF busing, but not Forest Pines?
Other nodes in our neighborhood don't have traditional elems that feed to Wakefield High--theirs feed to Wake Forest-Rolesville and Sanderson. Will busing be available to those schools? They've given everybody at least 2 yr and 2 traditional options, but they haven't said what sort of busing will be available, if any, to those options.
I really hope that the board members ask for this info and make some decisions (do we guarantee busing to at least one traditional and one yr option for everybody?) before the base selection rounds happen. People will be ticked if they are surprised by transportation options in Jan and the board has no idea. It will be too late to do anything about it at that point.
Every week I come up with another question or another facet of the plan that I hadn't thought of, and I am an assignment junkie who has really combed through this plan. I'm not sure the other board members are as familiar with it.
can anybody share number of
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 16:44 — jenmancan anybody share number of seats available at magnet schools? Here's what I found when I looked at magnet options for my rising 7th & 9th graders:
rising 9th:
less than 5 seats at Enloe (36 1st choice applicants so far)
101 seats at SRHS (14 1st choice apps)
Rising 7th had less than 5 seats at:
Ligon AG (2 apps so far)
Ligon GT (6 apps)
Moore Square (0 apps)
Centennial (1 app)
I don't know why I bother
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 18:01 — springsmomMy rising first grader's magnet choices were Combs, Brentwood, Brooks, Bugg, Conn, Smith, Fuller, Joyner, Partnership, Poe, Washington, and Wiley. Wiley had five seats available, the others had less than five. We applied for Fuller last year, but didn't get it even as a kindergartner. I am so depressed to see that there were "less than five" seats for Enloe for rising 9th graders. Basically, if you didn't get into the right magnet track as a kindergartner, you have no shot at Enloe. This system is broken.
Sorry that you'll have to join the rest of us
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 22:27 — FSandYOUat the regular schools.
The ones without all the extras.
problem with the lottery
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 18:23 — turnerk1One of the problems I see is that, in actual fact, there are probably a lot more than 5 seats available at Enloe, but the school system may never know it. In the past, many students chose not to attend Enloe, and returned to their base school for high school. Students in magnet schools had to tell the system in November whether or not they were planning to go to a magnet school the following year, so the system had a rough idea of how many kids would be moving up to the next level. But, the way the lottery is being run now, there is no way for the system to know that there are feeder students who plan to apply for a proximity choice while the magnet lottery is open. Magnet students could easily be shut out of a more crowded high school choice during the proximity lottery. I wouldn't be surprised if schools like Apex, Wakefield and Green Hope also had less than 5 seats open. As Jenman pointed out in another post, I think we will end up with people on waiting lists, who really should have been able to attend the school of their choice if the lotteries were run at the same time, or if the proximity lottery was done first.
6th grade magnet seats
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 23:31 — jedaviI see the following seats available for rising 6th graders:
Ligon - less than 5
Centennial - less than 5
Moore Square - 7
East Millbrook - 61
So sounds like there isn't really a chance of getting into a magnet school even at 6th grade.
Hope I see more seats available during the choice window so that I can get a traditional calendar seat with a bus for next year. My current assignment slip is for a MS thirty minutes away and the transportation says "parent". Not really an option when I work full time.
I expected E Millbrook to
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 09:27 — jenmanI expected E Millbrook to have seats since they are reducing the percentage of base students. I think it is currently 85% base. That's still not many seats. But good grief, the other middle schools are ridiculous. I really think it was a mistake for them to completely fill the middle and high magnet schools with feeder schools. That basically leaves no room for anybody else to get in.
This is really going to get interesting. We won't really know how many seats are at the magnets until after the proximity base rounds. That's when some magnet students will leave for a 'neighborhood school'. I hope they release all of the detailed figures around the magnet application process so we can see what's really going on.
That's criminal...
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 17:11 — Bob_SconcePractically every rising 9th grade magnet seat at Enloe is coming because 8th grade magnet kids at Ligon get priority? Severely broken. I can understand "Well, my older brother is in, so I should too" -- it makes sense to keep siblings together. But, I see no sensible principle that says that attending a magnet middle school should give priority over students who either went to base middle schools or to schools outside the district.
Feeder Pattern
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 18:24 — Solon77So why should a magnet student not have the stability of the feeder pattern as other students ?
Because
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 20:30 — Bob_SconceMagnet schools are the creme of the district. Allowing one set of students to monopolize them is unfair to everybody else. If you want a stable feeder pattern, go to a base school.
Nicely done.
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 08:40 — bpuli9999You are playing both sides of the argument at the same time. You want to be able to go send your child to a magnet school any time you decide to. But for those who already go to a magnet school, they need to stand in line behind you - just in case you want your child to go a magnet school.
Nope...
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 12:31 — Bob_SconceWho said anything about "stand in line behind" me? If your kid is in a magnet school, then he ought to be able to stay in that school if you want him to. But, when he leaves that magnet school and wants to go to a different magnet school, then he and my kid should have the same chance of getting into that different school.
Right now, we have a two-tier system: IF you're a kid whose parents (a) have a good understanding of the school system's programs and magnet lottery, (b) live close enough to magnet schools that the distance isn't a problem, (c) also live in an preferred area for the magnet lottery, and (d) apply when you're ready for kindergarten, THEN you're golden straight through to 12th grade. But, IF you (i) moved here after kindergarten, (ii) live far enough away that distance (at young ages) is a significant impediment, (iii) go to a "high-poverty" school, or (iv) just don't clue in to how the magnet process works until too late, THEN you're SOL.
In a nutshell, the policy of giving priority to current magnet students in future magnet admissions is effectively an entitlement program for people who are (x) well-to-do, (y) long-time residents and/or (z) ITB. (The more of those, the better).
The Reverse...
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 13:37 — JanisTangois kids that want to leave a magnet school to go back to their base school get the same priorties as everyone else. I do agree Bob that the same should apply to the magnets.
its not that simple
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 10:53 — EBDarcyWhat about the people who decided they wanted their children to attend magnet schools but their child couldn't get in? Now those children have to stand in line behind all the other students who got in, just because they didn't get lucky in kindergarten.
I certainly understand the argument that one you are in a magnet program you should have priority to continue in that program to the next level. And if every kid who applies got a seat I'd say that was fine. Problem is that if your child doesn't get in for K they have almost no chance of getting in after that.
My feeling is that if the magnets are the best WCPSS has to offer every effort should be made to allow as many children as possible to have exposure to them at some point during their k-12 career.
Creme of the district
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 22:24 — Solon77Not a very good argument. In fact where does one draw the line ? I could argue Green Hope is every bit of creme as any of the magnet high schools. Should the district limit the choice to allow other kids to go there ? I am surprised that you are bringing this up as it seems even if you were offered a magnet seat you would turn it down because it is not convenient. Your real issue seems to be with the level of funding across the district that does not allow for programs at non magnets.
well...
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 08:26 — Bob_SconceWe've avoided the magnets so far mainly because we thought the long bus rides & early pickup time were really bad ideas for our young kids. Recall that we live on the outskirts of the county. As the kids get older, those concerns diminish. I would seriously consider Enloe if there were actually a shot of getting in --that's one reason RCHS is attractive.
As to GHHS, the big difference is that Enloe gets a lot of extra funding.
You could say the same thing
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 21:05 — finalfrontierYou could say the same thing for siblings i.e., if you want your sibling in the same school, go to a base school. Magnets are inherently unfair and this will continue until funds are available to enhance offerings across the system.
Yes...
Mon, 12/05/2011 - 22:00 — Bob_SconceI could, but I don't think that argument is as strong.