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The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? How will the new choice-based assignment system work now that the socioeconomic diversity policy has been eliminated? How will Superintendent Tony Tata lead the state's largest district through more budget cuts and possible layoffs? How will the board respond to growth and the school construction program?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

Looking for administrative cuts first

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Bob Luebke argues that the Wake County school system should cut more Central Services positions before making further budget cuts in schools.

In a blog post today for the conservative Civitas Institute, Luebke is skeptical of the school administration's claims that schools now need to bear the brunt of the cut. Staff is proposing that schools bear 80 percent of the new state cut in education funding.

"Can anyone honestly say teaching staff should be cut before additional layoffs to Facilities Planning, Auxiliary Services or Growth and Planning?," Luebke writes. "If the purpose of Wake County Schools is to educate students, shouldn’t the budget reflect those priorities?"

Let's back up for a moment.

During Wednesday's school board finance committee meeting, Chief Business Officer David Neter said budget cuts over the years have focused heavily on Central Services to avoid cutting schools. He pointed to how the $20 million in cuts unveiled in February were all affecting Central Services, including layoffs of more than 70 employees.

Then came word that the state wanted a 3 percent cut in education funding for this fall, equal to $20 million.

Neter said that Central Services had been cut so much that it could "no longer bear it all alone." He said cutting $20 million out of Central Services would have been the equivalent of taking $80 million to $100 million out of schools.

Under the 3 percent reduction that Wake is hoping the state cut will be limited to, schools would take $16 million of the $20 million cut.

If state funding is cut 5 percent, schools would take $27.2 million of the $34 million cut. In that 5 percent scenario, Neter said teacher layoffs would likely have to be made.

This is where Luebke's skepticism steps in. He notes that Wake still has 694 Central Services employees that can be cut from before teachers. (Wake has got 17,500 full or part-time employees.)

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Question for Mr. Hui

OT-Keung, last year our HS lost 8 teachers which resulted in 48 fewer sections of classes being taught. Is there any way to find out by school 1)how many and 2)which teachers the coming budget cuts will affect? I'd love to request that this information not only be made available but posted on the door of each facility. When you interview for private schools you get a sense of what you will have academically, I'd like for that to be the case for public schools as well. I'd hate to sign up for all kinds of courses and then not got anything close to the classes we were hoping to take and then be stuck homeschooling. Is the information protected under personnel privacy regulations?

They haven't broken it down

They haven't broken it down by school yet because the cuts haven't been officially implemented.

on-site management

One of the complexities here with funding is that principals can, within certain limits, decide how to use their funding as they see fit. So, a high school is given X amount of money, and the principal can decide how to apportion that money. One principal might decide to use all of it on teachers and cut as many non-teaching positions as possible, another might make a very different decision based upon the particular situation at that school. That is why some traditional high schools (like Green Hope) have many more AP classes than others. The principal has made the decision to apportion resources in that way.  So, the question you are asking is probably unknowable per school right now (because they aren't sure of enrollment, which teachers will return next year, what classes they want to offer, etc.) and certainly unknowable for the whole system.

As we dig into comparing

As we dig into comparing schools, I am sure that number of teachers, the quality of teachers, the courses offered, etc. will follow what we saw for AP courses that the "good" school have the resources and the "bad" schools (high F&R) get shafted.

It's probably too early to

It's probably too early to tell that right now.

I'd imagine that they will wait until the end of the year to see if teachers leave on their own before they would announce any layoffs/terminations.

I think it's a great question, though.

Soft Research Education, if

Soft Research

Education, if it were a real business or medical practice, would have been out of business a long time ago. True research must be backed by valid and standardized methods. Educational research has been accused of “making it up as they go.” They do not have to base anything on valid research.

Take, for example, the paper written circa 2003 by George Leef of the North Carolina Education Alliance. That paper was titled, “National Board Certification: Is North Carolina Getting Its Moneys Worth.” It was a very well thought out paper. It was based on data obtained through the NBPTS. The portfolio studied by Mr. Leef was one for a Language Arts Teacher seeking NBPTS Certification. You can Google the title and read the document itself.

The cost for this certification is substantial. There is a $65 application fee (non-refundable) as well as $2500 per applicant for application. That total is $2565. Presently, in NC, there are 15,686 NBPTS Teachers. That means that the taxpayers of NC have shelled out $40,234,590 for NBPTS applicants. NBPTS boasts that some 2 out of 3 applicants do not make status the first attempt. That triples the cost. Also, this does not include the 12% pay raise these teachers get for 10 years.

NBPTS has attempted to “prove its worth” over the years. In one study it was pointed out that math classes had scored better with NBPTS teachers than with other math teachers. In the end it was two elementary school classes somewhere in the mid-west that had been documented. NBPTS has also commissioned reports to prove their worth. Some results came back positive and others not as positive. Either way, there is still much controversy exists as to whether or not this initiative does anything to help students.

Another initiative has sprung up called Positive Behavior Support (PBS). In some schools this means that while still providing consequences for inappropriate behavior PBS “celebrates” good behavior. In other school systems it is interpreted to mean that schools no longer punish bad behavior. For example, one school system advertises PBS in this way: “PBS changes how schools respond to students, improving student behavior by reinforcing desired behaviors and eliminating inadver¬tent reinforcements for problem behavior.” Being open to interpretation one might say that PBS means to eliminate consequences for bad behavior. That is exactly what is being done in many schools that have adopted this “program.”

One school system advertises in this way: Positive Behavior Support is a new initiative to XXXXXX County Schools and it is growing by leaps and bounds. Positive Behavior Support (PBS) is a new approach to discipline and the creation of a safe learning environment that has the potential to address the longstanding needs of all children. PBS is not a program, but a system, based on decades of behavioral and biomedical research. However, the “research” is never published.

In early 2000 a group called Middle Start (apparently designed for middle schools) began going around the country advertising a new initiative. Once again, they touted research for their success. However, three schools offered as proof of the effectiveness turn out to be less than stellar collectively.

One school actually falls to less than half of the passing rate on standardized tests compared to where they were prior to the initiative being implemented. The trademark of Middle Start is something called ABCI pronounced (ABC eye). The idea behind this is to never give a child less than a C. This means that you never “hurt a child’s feelings.” If an entire school system uses this then it may be fair. However, if one school uses this initiative and no other schools do then the school using this initiative will carry an unfair advantage over the other schools. For example, the football coach at school B (using ABCI) does not have to deal with academic requirements. The other schools in that conference do.

In the Middle Start report the three schools in the spotlight had apparently never done “teaming.” When teaming is used (meaning having a close nit team of core teachers in math, science, social studies and language arts) there is a great deal of cooperation between these teachers. This seems to be true with most middle schools, but it is not new.

In one of the three schools some gains were achieved in math. However, in the report from Middle Start it is pointed out that an entire new math series was adopted for that school. The school reports for achievement can be found on the Internet. Strangely, the Middle Start Report does not come up on searches.

In middle school a principal is a driving force for the school. In many systems principals are given such autonomy they can do or say anything they desire and be free of consequences if they are wrong. Any teacher that finds something questionable about a new directive or new initiative will be humiliated or will be somehow discredited.

There really is no research done in education that would meet the criteria set forth in all other venues for validity and credibility. On the contrary, a teacher with great success will be shoved into the corner if what they have done goes against the feel good educational system.

CMS

The new board got smashed in Sunday's opinion section ... all the letters were critical of the new boards direction, ability and pace.

....http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/

The letter-writer is correct: CMS minority students are bucking the conventional wisdom - with graduation rates down by double digits. Supporters of Wake's current direction indicate it will take seven to 10 years to fully see the results of the changes. CMS is currently in that window - time to take a close look

Graduation rates

06/07 08/09 % chg
CMS 73.8% 66.1% -10.4%
WCPSS 79.3% 78.4% - 1.1%

Blacks
CMS 62.8% 55.5% -11.6%
WCPSS 65.3% 63.4% - 2.9%

Whites
CMS 87.1% 81.1% -6.9%
WCPSS 88.2% 89.4% +1.3%

In graduate school we spent

In graduate school we spent quite a bit of time on "educational research" and it's weaknesses.  Take for example research in other areas such as counseling.  Or even medicine.  When doing research there must be some type of reference by the researcher to published and documented articles previously published along with valid and accepted standards set by accepted researchers.  Educational research has no such bounds.  In short, you can kinda make it up as you go.

Take for example National Boards.  There is very little research to support the assertion that an NBPTS teacher can do any better than any other teacher.  Yet, NC spends over 1 billion dollars on this intitiative.  The people "grading" these teacher portfolios never meet, much less watch teach, any teacher they grade.  The first "proof" NBPTS teachers did a better job was a set of math scores.  It turned out that this "research" involved an elementary teacher somewhere in the midwest and 2 math classes that this teacher taught.

For any educational intitiative to be proven one way or another the initiative would have to instituted with students in kindergarten and follow them through 12th grade.  Otherwise the research would not have any real validity.  For example, one reason many students drop out of high school is because we send them to high school unable to read and write.  (We tie a weight around their neck and tell them to swim.) So to speak.

The data here leaves a lot of questions.  Is this the number of students that graduated from a senior class that was counted before and after that specific school year?  Were these numbers from high schools that tracked 9th grade students from 9th to graduation?  Where any of these students surveyed to find out what happened?  What was their point of view?  If data is going to be used the data must measure specifics.

For example, one reason many

For example, one reason many students drop out of high school is because we send them to high school unable to read and write.  (We tie a weight around their neck and tell them to swim.) So to speak

That is what my wife says too that many of her academic kids can not read and they sit in class with a glazed look on their face ... since they are lost and bored, they disrupt the class.... like a high school freshman in college class might do ... these kids really need to be in vocational classed where they can work with their hands ....

good summation

In a nutshell you've stated the problem and why there's many questionable soft papers available to support the status quo.  Paradoxically, most of those running education graduated with degrees in education (or none at all) and not in areas of hard science where academic rigor, use of data, regression testing, and sound science are the norm.  Call it the Delaney-Burns paradox - educators who are not trained and possibly incapable of the academic rigor required to form valid conclusions based on scientific data.  And further, unable to firmly grasp the concepts where science is the vehicle of choice in businesses such as SAS.  Can you imagine the sound data that could be produced if Goodnight and Co were enlisted?  Imagine the dilemma they'd face though given the CEO's ideological bent.

The Real Paradox Is

....why the supporters new majority absolutely refuse to cite ANY legitimate research (hard OR soft) about the efficacy of community schools in high-poverty neighborhoods when repeatedly asked for it, yet continue to try to put on the facade that the data is on their side.

 And while you're giving short shrift to the papers out there - the Southworth paper, for example, is hard data crunching meticulously designed and well executed - I do agree that it would be great to get the BoE to enlist SAS* to do some real studies on the efficacy of the diversity policy.  But we all know there's zero chance the new board majority will do that - they are scared to death they'd get the "wrong" answer.

It's hard to critique the

It's hard to critique the Southworth paper when she used data that is not available to the general public.

Stephanie Southworth?

How about a link to the paper?  The ones I found could hardly be considered "hard data crunching" and "meticulously designed" by any stretch of the imagination.  I might give it a "well-executed" because it's got the look and feel for an education-dept published paper.

epicpolicy.org/publication/school-choice-evidence-and-recommendations

 epicpolicy.org/files/CHOICE-10-Miron-FINAL-withapp22_0 dot pdf

 Besides many of the benefits of community schools are obvious.  I think it's up to the "diversity" supports to prove that the inconvenience and costs of busing across the county and different schedules are worth it.  These are the areas that the old board had plenty of the time and resources to prove but never either wouldn't or couldn't.

When you visit the

When you visit the epicpolicy.org website be sure to click on the thinktank tab and check out the cartoon--it is a keeper!

"legitimate research, facade, hard data"

wow, could it be you just have it wrong?

Catch-22

The message keeps getting more mixed.

On one hand, people want "objective, data-driven" decisions but then turn-around and say there is no objectivity in education research.

People compare metrics across school districts when convenient to their arguments then argue against the same type of comparisons when inconvenient to their arguments.  

Is the goal of "objective, data-driven" decisions in education research really possibly?

Dove, I read some of the

Dove, I read some of the comments and the paper referenced in the recent Roslyn Michelson threads.  It was interesting to see that the research paper actually points out that when using soft educational type research most laypeople don't agree with it--or have a hard time understanding it and what place if any it deserves.  It is not like hard science where numbers from computers and scientific formulas are constants.  In reviewing the paper it seemed like many of the test subjects left the study and I have found this trend in other publications--for a layperson, how much reliability is sacrificed to the overall finding of the research when the data is depleted.  Add to that the reviews done of the 19 referenced came back mixed--1/3 great, 1/3 avg. 1/3 stinks.  (That doesn't create a warm, fuzzy feeling that we are moving in a data-driven direction, just that the readers brought their own bias to the review.)  In fact, it may be detrimental to have laypeople read these things and come to the wrong conclusion.  When I have hard the BOE member refer to using data driven decisions it has been with reference to the budget, numbers of kids in nodes to be reassigned, etc. not with regard to research pubs/findings.     

That has not been what I have seen

You mention:

When I have hard the BOE member refer to using data driven decisions it
has been with reference to the budget, numbers of kids in nodes to be
reassigned, etc. not with regard to research pubs/findings. 

The discussion I've seen has not been limited or even really focused on the items you mention.    You can see below where I posted a WHEREAS clause from a resolution that matches a lot of discussion here where "objective, data-driven" decisions refers to the improvement and assessment of student achievement.   What options WCPSS moves forward in classrooms to improve student achievement will relate back to this soft research you mention, at least in part. That language seems to mirror exactly language from the many Community Schools promotional web sites where discussion is also centered around impacting student achievement.

So, do you think the BOE is

So, do you think the BOE is 1)reading/interpreting the papers on their own; 2) not reading them at all or 3) getting input from other experts? 

No clue

I've requested some research mentioned by one board member under the Public Information Act but have not received even an acknowledgement of the request much less an answer.   

Since the real goal is to find ways that help students do well, I hope they are making some sort of credible effort rather than nothing and are making some effort to be objective in that effort instead of cherry-picking results that support their plans.   I'd like to know there is more than just JT touring some schools and the committee writing supporting documentation for the magnet grants happening in the ED Student Performance Task Force as one example.   I'd like for them to publicly lay out their plan for collecting information.

I'd also like to see them looking in to as many options as possible that could help student achievement in the time period before any new assignment plan is implemented.

I would like to see John or

I would like to see John or the achievement committee review the School Improvement Plans starting with high schools on down.  There may be some common issues that could be addressed in the 9-15 month window before the zone plan goes in. 

Like me, there are many

Like me, there are many teachers out there getting their students over the threshold. Last year I took over one of two 8th grade science classes at a school that had, the previous year, 34% of their students in 8th grade pass the science EOG. Last year, my first year at the school, I was able to help 65% of my students pass the EOG.  You will never hear of that anywhere but here.  That's because I do not subscribe to the fuzzy feel good tenants of eduworld.  I teach my students to read, write and think for themselves.  I am an outcast.

Actually, I think the answer

Actually, I think the answer to that question is yes.  Right now there is too much politcal infighting about testing.  Why would an 8th grade science teacher create a rigorous academic class in 8th grade science laced with RELEVANT (NOT related) labs and hands-on actitivities?  I mean, that's a ton of work.  The STAR science teachers I saw in schools were the ones that "made science fun."  Don't get me wrong, having fun is important.  However, NEVER using a textbook?  Disecting frogs in an 8th grade science class?  The only thing close to that in the curriculum is Cells and that does not go into the organism level.

If a science test is based on the standard course of study then it is a valid test and it does have standards and norms.  The fact is that most of those "star" teachers do not teach any longer.  They got scared or their test scores tanked.  My present school had 34% of it's students pass the science EOG the eyar before I got here.  My first year at my school my students (on team) passed at a rate of 65%.  Do I teach to the test?  Well, if you mean do I teach the standard course of study? Yes, I do!

So

Are metrics such as graduation rates and changes between years comparable across school districts or not?   What makes some metrics selectively comparable?

And are you saying that the "objective, data-driven" decisions to which the BoE and WSCA refers are really just more rigorous employment of standardized tests related to a more rigorously specific standard course of study?

And, if so, then I'm not understanding your dislike of a at least a minimum national standard.  Must specify, I am not charmed by a national standard course of study but am trying to understand your points.   Who would you have set the specific standard course of a study?

With all due respect I would

With all due respect I would have to ask....what would be the alternative to objective, data driven decisions?  I have seen "philosophies" drive education for 13 years now.  One, called ABCI, touts not giving students any grades for D and F work.  Instead, allow students to re-do any and all work that is below a C.  If you do not enter anything below a C, in most districts, this would mean that any student in that school is sports eligible.  Does that mean they do not have a minimum standard?  This is an actual philosophy being used across the contry and some schools.

 I would never have any Federal entity dictate education for any state.  The US Constitution clearly states that anything not specifically handed to the Federal govt automatically reverts to the states for decisions.  Should a case (such as Brown v Board of Education) make it to the Supreme Court then the Feds can certainly take over, but that is the Judicial branch not the Legislative.

States have the right to decide on testing unless the Feds tie money to following Federal standards.  That means that, IMHO, NCLB overstepped boundaries.  The fact that the Feds can dictate to states something not provided by the Constitution worries me.

I think the "objective,

I think the "objective, data-driven" decisions stuff was WCSA wish list not a BOE commitment.

BoE WhereAs'd it.

This is another one that the board majority "WHEREAS'd" in to their assignment resolution:

Whereas, ALL children regardless of race, creed, economic status, or nationality are capable of high academic achievement when provided instruction of rigor and relevance. The utilization of objective, data-driven decisions better supports these efforts than subjective classification and profiling of students

Again, I think the BOE

Again, I think the BOE included the motherhood but does not believe it or live by it ... it makes for good campaign flyers ... which WCSA created ...

Why did the Whites drop?

Why did the whites also have a large drop?   I doubt their scores were being raised by forced integration.  You should look a little deeper into the numbers.   I suspect there was a lot of socio-economic flight out of CMS to other counties and private schools and not because the forced busing changed. 

Of the people I know in CMS the schools they speak of are terrible.  As in move to another county terrible.  And that it was egregiously bad for those that were forced to other than neighborhood schools.

Give It Up

Have the Board members considered giving up their small salaries (except for Tedesco - that's the only job he has). Every little bit helps.

 I did not want to go

 I did not want to go through the hundreds of pages of the present budget but I had 2006 and it seemed at that time the administration and support lines totaled $185M.

I would prefer to see 70% of the budget go to instruction, 20% for non-instruction (food, transportation) and 10% max to Admin and support.

 

Operating Expenditures Per Student Students Total
Instruction  4422 140000     619,080,000 61%
Instructional Staff Support  237 140000       33,180,000 3%
Pupil Support  480 140000       67,200,000 7%
General Administration  96 140000       13,440,000 1%
School Administration  512 140000       71,680,000 7%
Operations and Maintenance  561 140000       78,540,000 8%
Student Transportation  397 140000       55,580,000 5%
Food Services  274 140000       38,360,000 4%
Enterprise Operations  0 140000                    -   0%
Other Expenditures  298 140000       41,720,000 4%
7277 140000  1,018,780,000 100%
Admin and Support     185,500,000

10% based on ?

Not saying one way or the other - please share with us the basis of the 10%. Is it based on benchmarks to other districts ? or is it an arbitrary %.   

No ... sorry .. 10% "felt"

No ... sorry .. 10% "felt" right ... school should be about teaching and 10% overhead to watch and support the teachers seemed about right ... a bench mark would be a good idea to see if administration spending is correct.

Appreciate your honesty

I appreciate your honesty.  I agree school should be about teaching.  I have looked at a number of districts and Wake is efficiently run from a % of budget or cost per student.  That said, there is always room for improvement. However,  there is not $20m and we ended up being distracted from finding a real solution. With the budget defict looming - where does parental convenience fit in ? For example - do we add trailers and costs at Lacy to accomodate the over crowding or reassign students to Stough where there is capacity ?  It will be interesting to see what decisions are made.  

I don't think it would be

I don't think it would be easy to compare across school districts. One would need a close approximation of demographics and other variables (including student performance metrics, number of services supported by central office, etc.) to state that the % is high or low. But, without regard to relative numbers, WCPSS should have a goal to drive down non-instructional absolute costs every year.

Agreed.  Comparing Wake's

Agreed.  Comparing Wake's central office costs to other school districts provides just one data point.  But Wake County has not been shy about being different from other school systems, and we should not be satisfied if our costs are "in line" with other systems.  Unless we know those other systems are operating at peak efficiency, we are using the wrong benchmark.

I am probably the wrong

I am probably the wrong person to ask ... I am 100% education at any cost ... so, if I was world dictator, I would push parent convenience to the bottom ... it would be all about hiring the best teachers to teach the most challenging courses as effeciently as possible ... so, if my children had to drive across town, be on a buss for two hours, go on Saturday, wear a uniform, go four days, go six day, go every other day, attend an hour longer on Wed., sign a contract, do without sports, etc. I would do it to get the best education available for my kids.

Uh...

Already been stated by the administration that the Stough-Lacy moves won't require any additional trailers.  The number of students being moved is tiny, since most of the others had either left the system entirely or opted into a magnet school.

 

The district had already

The district had already planned to put trailers at Lacy before the board vote. The new trailers won't be ready before the school year starts.

I think we need to remember

I think we need to remember just because we "planned" to move the trailers to Lacy does not mean we have to move the trailers ... even though the move is in the plan we can still save cutting some teachers by not moving them.

question

Keung - Do you happen to know the cost of all of the cell phones/service given to every employee of the WCPSS? A school board member told me, but I can't remember.If you don't have it, don't spend time looking for it! Thanks...

(And to the other bloggers - no, I'm not implying anything)

All bus drivers have cell

All bus drivers have cell phones. I don't know about other employees.

School Bus Cell Phones

FYI - For safety they must stop before they use them. So, if they need to call transportation they must pull over 1st.

My wife is missing to

My wife's is missing to. Come to think of it - I think she is missing a lot of the benefits - car allowance and country club.   Seriously - my wife is in special ed and she is lucky to have time to go to the bathroom, let alone have lunch. People / parents do not realize the $ spent on supplies and other "school" stuff we pay for out of our pocket. School gets out at 2:30 and it is not unusual for her students to not get picked up until almost 3:00. She cannot leave until all of her students are picked up.  Just because education is a gov't run program there are those that believe the teachers and administrators are lazy, incompetent, stupid and wasteful. Perhaps in this regard we need to be more like the private schools.  On the other hand - if we need an extra 15 minutes in the school day and it conflicts with Susie's nap time or a dance class. - Susie wins.

I apologize for the ranting - just very frustrated at priorities today. I still remember the time when teachers were respected and given the parent's full support.  

        

"She cannot leave until all

"She cannot leave until all of her students are picked up."

Just wanted to point out that her peers also couldn't plan a PLT until her last child was picked up, which is why they can't start at the same time school ends.

hmmm... wife does not have a

hmmm... wife does not have a WCPSS cell phone?   Did she miss the memo?

Hmmm is right

I either misunderstood or was misinformed. Will try to find out what the deal is.

Thanks... 

Maybe she does but hasn't

Maybe she does but hasn't told someone. :)

Options: 1. Review of Top 50

Options:

1. Review of Top 50 or Top 100 expenses at granular level as well as when rolled up to various levels. (Did central office present an analysis to the BOE or was it just the recommendations?).

2. Parents pay as follows:
($20 per student per month) x 12 months x 140,000 students x 70% NEDs = ~$20m.

3. Across the board 3% cut for state funded line items.

Salary Data

Why not publish the salaries of the 20 highest paid employees in Central Office?

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.

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