WakeEd

The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? Will the new student assignment plan be a hybrid of the last two models or primarily be a return to the use of busing for diversity? Who will replace Tony Tata as the new superintendent of the state's largest district? How will voters react to a likely request in 2013 to borrow potentially more than $1 billion to build and renovate schools?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

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Looking at the academic performance disparities in the zone map

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There are noticeable disparities among the 16 zones in the map that the Wake County school board's student assignment committee decided Tuesday to use as the "shell" for developing the new assignment model.

As noted in today's article, there were wide disparities along racial, income, academic and graduation lines among the 16 zones in the map. One question that came up Tuesday is what's the significance of the academic disparities.

School administrators reported out the passing rates on state reading exams among elementary students, middle school students and high school students in the 16 zones.

For the Southeast Raleigh/Enloe zone, the EOG reading proficiency rate was only 46.7 percent among elementary students and 48.6 percent among middle school students. It was the only zone where less than half the kids were passing.

The passing rate was over 90 percent in some districts, particularly in western Wake.

School board member John Tedesco, chairman of the student assignment committee was making a big deal of the percentage of the Southeast Raleigh/Enloe zone to take shots at the old diversity policy and the achievement gap at the magnet schools. He noted how the roughly 10,000 students in that zone are going to magnet schools as base students or are being bused elsewhere for diversity.

Tedesco contrasted the Southeast Raleigh zone with the East Wake zone, which he noted also has high poverty but whose children largely go to schools in their community.

Tedesco called the 61.8 percent proficiency rate in East Wake compared to the 46.7 percent rate in Southeast Raleigh "a substantial gap."

But committee members, particularly those appointed by the board minority members, cited the performance of the Southeast Raleigh zone as a possible reason to try to balance zones by academics.

"If there's a zone that's 46.7 percent proficient, that's a challenging zone for schools," said community committee member Anne Cooper.

As a result of the discussion, Tedesco asked staff for a report highlighting individual dollar allocations for each school to see if there's funding equity.

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AG Services in K-3

Anyone can receive AG services starting as early as Kindergarten.

My son attended our base ES school and received AG services starting in the 1st grade.  WCPSS has a policy on early identification of academically gifted students. I had to write a letter to the AG resource teacher requesting early identification. Then the School-Based Committee for Gifted Education (SBC-GE) met to discuss if my son met the requirements for early AG identification. As a parent I had a right to attend this meeting. He was denied the 1st time and the reason I was given was because he was not more than 2 years ahead. So, I had private testing that showed he was reading at a 6th grade level and his math was at a 4th grade level. I appealed the decision to AG services at Central Office and my son was granted early AG identification. After this identification he received “pull out” services from the AG teacher and was allowed to go to reading with a 3rd grade class. We were also offered the option of skipping grades but we declined this option.  In the 3rd grade he still had to take all of the assessment tests and his gifted status was reevaluated.

http://www.wcpss.net/news/2008_feb29_ag/

“Students can be nominated for consideration for the academically gifted program at any grade level.”

 Once I got my son early identification then several other parents got their child AG identified. So, a small group from my son’s 1st grade class was pulled out for AG services.

Interesting info.  Thank

Interesting info.  Thank you for sharing.  I had my son tested at the end of 2nd grade because I was growing frustrated with the lack of challenging math for him.  All I really wanted was for him to get level appropriate math instruction.  The school system did it and I didn't have to go through any major hoops.  I guess we were lucky.  I think it really depends so much on the school itself--the principal, the AG teacher and your child's teacher.  Some are more willing to do something different than others are. 

I Agree...

My son's first grade teacher knew he had a 'gift' for math.  She made up a secondary 'math' assignment for him to do so he wouldn't be bored once he was done with his 'first' paper.  I really appreciated the fact that she kept him engaged and challenged! 

Testing

I had private testing for the appeal-it was not a requirement. I know other students who were approved by the SBC-GE without private testing.

I wonder how many AG capable

I wonder how many AG capable students (especially low income) are missed and don't make it into the program because their parents are not as determined as you?   

Probably a few....

I suspect that the tests used by the school district (the CogAt and ITBS) to screen students for AG services in the 3rd grade were selected because they're not particularly expensive and they're easy to administer, not because they're incredibly accurate.  A psychologist will administer different tests, such as the WISC-IV, which requires one-on-one interaction but which I suspect is far more accurate.

As with everything else in WCPSS, if you do not advocate for your kids, nobody else will.   I'm sure there are kids who could benefit from such advocacy, but don't get it.

So, Bob, as a society we are

So, Bob, as a society we are allocating resources based on how vocal a parent is vs. the best outcome ... I knew that ... still, the fact that people get all cranked with magnet envy it would seem they would have AG envy too and complain about people who can afford outside testing to get their kids in the program ... isn't that in the league with affluent neighborhoods with magnet bases complaint? ... maybe since it happens OTB all over the place the practice is more tolerable ... the AG program always seemed like the math placement discrimination .... just another way to derail the poor and minorities as they advance through public school ...

So...

I don't think it's necessarily based on how vocal a parent is -- not all vocal parents get what they want.  But, 100% of the parents who didn't open their mouths didn't get what they wanted.

If you're arguing that the district could do a better job with AG identification, I agree with you.  But, note that the main way the district identifies AG students really only looks at the numbers the students generate on two tests that all kids take -- it doesn't discriminate based on race or ED status.  The difference is that some parents are able to get their kids a second bite at the apple, but that second bite may be harder to take if you don't have much money.

You got it

As to the costs, I've also heard from various sources $1,000+ and per the web site of a local place where kids can get privately tested, medical insurance does not cover, besides what about those that do not have insurance.

http://www.allanbloom.com/giftedevals.php

Academically Gifted Evaluations

Admission to Academically Gifted (AG) programs in the public schools requires an Intelligence Test (IQ) and an Achievement Test. Sometimes parents are surprised when their children score disappointingly low on the school's group tests. We can administer individual versions of these examinations which may deliver more valid scores because individual tests are more reliable and can be tailored to the needs of the individual child. Medical insurance will not cover the cost of AG testing.

AG Testing

In order for my insurance to pay I had to get a letter from my son’s Pediatrician stating that he need “psychological evaluation”. The AG testing was completed as part of the full testing process. WCPSS AG Services was very specific with the tests they wanted.

Excellent point User

how much does that private testing cost?

Testing Cost

My Insurance paid for it. I had to pay 2 co-pays.  I think the insurance paid around $1,500 to $2,000– it has been years .

Wow...

That's ordinarily not covered by insurance.  For most people, it's out-of-pocket, but probably reimbursable under flex-spending or HSA.

Low income bias

Seems as if the costs likely would be prohibitive to lower income families thus making them less likely to have the additional testing needed to show their child is AG.  This in turn would bias the AG population at the youngest levels to the more affluent who obtained additional tests at their own expense showing their child to be AG.

Actually, I think yes, you

Actually, I think yes, you can have it both ways in that you go first because of the courses, and then learn to appreciate diversity.  I don't know that the kids are really understanding the reason their parents chose to send them to magnets - coursework likely #1 - but they do understand what they like about their school.  What makes it special to them.  It's personal.

The people we would expect to hear from are those that value diversity the most.  If the BOE was threatening to do away with Swimming and Diving at Enloe or Leesville soccer, we'd hear from people that value that most.  It wouldn't mean that everyone chooses to go to Leesville for the great soccer...

Better late than never. So,

Better late than never. So, they start off lured by magnet offerings but later attain enlightenment and embrace what the haters supposedly detest i.e., 'diversity. If that is true, I think we have a solution here. Let the magnets retain diversity and bus themselves to whatever mixing bowls they fancy. Re-allocate the local magnet funds to non-magnet schools. (And as a bonus, the magnets can keep the funds for the first few months of a new magnet student's time in the school just so as to help with the transition from being electives enamored to 'diversity' diehards. Or does this ability to appreciate 'diversity' take more than a few months?).

 I'm just commenting on why

 I'm just commenting on why so many people spoke up about the diversity of a countywide magnet that draws from the entire county at the BOE meetings.  I think it makes sense bc diversity was stricken from the policy and eliminated, so that's what people would talk about.  if they took away foreign languages there, they'd come and speak about that.  Different things are draws for different people. 

You are flip flopping on

You are flip flopping on this (diversity vs offerings) and on the proof issue (further below). This is uncharacteristic for you. :)

I answered you about the

I answered you about the "proof" below - Lori made a fact based comment, I asked for where she was getting it from and have not heard back. 
 

Not sure why you keep trying to make this about me but, I'm flattered!

I am glad you are flattered.

I am glad you are flattered. Might I spend whatever goodwill that may have generated on having you reach out to your magnet friends about having them keep the stability and mixing bowls and letting the haters have the enhanced offerings? This can be the win-win that everyone will support. :)

I did not say that people

I did not say that people don't choose magnets because the program is the best choice for their child - I think that is why.  I also think *some* people like going to school with kids from all over the county and of different skin colors.  Not everyone values those things, clearly, and some are at magnets or at non-magnets bc that is the best fit for them and what they value. 

You keep trying to make it black/white and us/them - I don't think this is the right approach.

Sorry, I guess I have been

Sorry, I guess I have been watching too much BOE TV @ You keep trying to make it black/white and us/them - I don't think this is the right approach.

...

Does Rev Barber know that these Enloe kids and their parents are really attending for the course offerings? Why does it take Enloe to teach them to appreciate diversity? Sounds like lazy parenting to me.

Personally, I think they just want stability like the rest of us (as well as the plethora of electives, of course). It's too bad they won't admit it.

I think a lot of people

I think a lot of people willing to go downtown to Enloe or SER are also proponents of avoiding racially isolated schools, so I don't think Barber would be that mad.  I don't think it "takes Enloe to teach them to appreciate diversity" at all - just that when the BOE removed diversity from the policy, this is what the kids saw as being thereatened so this is what they talked about.  If they had said they were going to reassign half the Enloe kids out, they would have talked about stability.  Actually I've heard plenty of magnet parents say they value stability.  

Yes, my friend doesn't mince

Yes, my friend doesn't mince words - her kids go to Enloe for the courses.  They are getting the premier education in Wake County, courtesy of the rest of us.  I appreciate her honesty.  

I think most people choose

I think most people choose programs based on what is best for their child academically. 

I think so too. Some,

I think so too. Some, however, will claim they chose a school just because of diversity - especially if it helps them keep what they have.

And I have heard plenty of

And I have heard plenty of magnet parents say they do it for the joy of riding a yellow bus.

How can one "appreciate

How can one "appreciate diversity" when no one  -- at least on this forum -- has ever been able to define what that means? What is diversity? In Wake County, I thought it had to do with self-reported family income. What does that look like so I can recognize it and appreciate it? How do the students know what the family income level is of other students?

Diversity

I have wondered if "diversity" based on income would put the people who are way upside down on their huge house in a group below the "near zero" people. Should we track those kids lower than the kids who get free lunch? Or, maybe they are getting free lunch. Why is diversity based on income, not net worth? What if really wealthy people don't actually have an income? 

"appreciate diversity" when

"appreciate diversity" when no one  -- at least on this forum -- has ever been able to define what that means?

 

I am guessing you eat plain pasta without spices every night ... that is no diversity ... boring ... come out from behind the neighborhood gates and see the world is more than plain pasta....  

Again, what is diversity?

Again, what is diversity? How did/do students know when they are.were immersed on Wake County's bastardized version of diversity? Using your weak analogy, you would be using spices with no flavor ... you are not even aware of them.

Apparently it's spicy pasta

Maybe even with extra seasoning.

What money?

Take all the extra money supporting the magnet programs and spread it around.

Are you thinking there are more resources at Enloe?  There are 12-13 students per employee at most schools.

 

  Students Headcount Per Pop

Enloe 2643 201 13

Garner  2317 201 12

PCHS 2194 165 13

GHS 2006 146 14

MCHS 1697 136 12

What do you mean "what

What do you mean "what money?"? Magnets consume millions of dollars every year. Are you thinking Enloe doesn't get extra resources? If yes, I would love to see that report Tedesco requested regarding school level funding. Maybe you are right and the millions toward magnets was monopoly money.

Is the school level funding report published anywhere, Keung?

You may have posted it  already and I missed it. Thanks-

Help me out here ... as I

Help me out here ... as I showed Enloe has the same employee / student ratio as all the other schools ... do you think they have golden urinals you can strip and take back to Leesville?  

The post with "12-13

The post with "12-13 students per employee" is about as meaningful as the original with "12-13 employees per student". So while you cook meaningless metrics and flavor them with your interpretations, the fact remains that magnets pull in about $15m per year.

P.S.: I thought they did that in the bushes, what with the lamentations about capacity and a desire to better appreciate poverty.

ot

Knowing is Half the Battle. But It's the Easy Half.

Liberating teacher performance data is a great way to start out the school year. But it's not enough.

They say that knowing is half the battle. But it’s the easy half.

On Sunday, the Los Angeles Times caused quite a stir by releasing individual performance data about 6,000 of the system’s primary teachers after weeks of hyping the story. The paper took the simple but ingenious step of filing a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for the district’s raw math and reading standardized test scores over several years. For each teacher, the paper calculated a score based on the gains shown by his or her individual students from the time they arrived in the classroom in the fall to the time they left—a value-added score—and then rated the teachers’ effectiveness.

Information is power, and the school system and teachers union had access to this data long before the Times. But instead of releasing scores—and thus seizing the opportunity to frame the information and the debate—they sat on the data for years, stalling, hoping no one would notice that it existed at all. Their mindset dates from a time when processing a large amount of data and offering a granular analysis was a difficult and expensive business. But number crunching on this scale is no longer the province of big bureaucracies with major computing power. Anyone can do it, and it was only a matter of time before someone did.

Naturally, the teachers union flipped out. In addition to announcing a boycott of the paper, union reps have condemned the release of the scores to parents as “dangerous.” (To his credit, Obama education chief Arne Duncan backed the release of the scores, saying “What’s there to hide?”)

But all the data in the world won’t do kids or their parents any good if they can’t make choices informed by that data.

In a world where we can get rankings and information about every book, every household appliance, every restaurant, and every manicurist, we are in the habit of casually seeking information and making well-informed choices about the things we buy and the people we contract with for services. But in education (and, for that matter, in medicine) users are mostly working in an information vacuum. One reason doctors and hospitals are frightened of the popularization of information about patient satisfaction and pricing is that people can, with some constraints, take their broken legs, strep throats, or brain tumors elsewhere. But parents don’t have that luxury when it comes to public schooling.

Even if parents know who the good teachers are—and they often do already—it often doesn’t matter, since kids are randomly assigned. They’re allocated to a district, a school, a schedule, and a classroom, all without any input from students or parents. The biggest decision public school parents get to make about their child’s primary education is where they choose to live. Short of staging a mini-sit in at the guidance counselor’s office (something my parents were known to do from time to time) there’s not much you can do once the die has been cast. And if you’re a parent who doesn’t have the luxury of taking a day off from work to spend fighting the school bureaucracy, your kid is stuck wherever he was randomly assigned, no matter what. Teacher data doesn’t do a lick of good if you don’t have input about which teacher you wind up with.

Instituting a small degree of teacher choice wouldn’t be overwhelmingly difficult. Schools at all levels could opt for the kind of first-come, first-served lottery that large colleges use. It's not an ideal system, but it’s an improvement. Again, computers these days, they can do amazing stuff. Once a system is in place, this kind of limited choice would be neither time consuming nor expensive. But it would create one outcome that teachers unions will do almost anything to stop: It would quickly become obvious which teachers aren’t desirable. The teachers with the half-empty classrooms would be ripe for firing. And that’s the scenario that makes teachers unions (and to a lesser degree school boards and other education bureaucracies) fear a flood of data, especially if it’s accompanied by even a little choice.

In today’s , this troublingly common sentiment showed up: "As a parent, I think I have a right to know," said [school] board member Nury Martinez, who added that she did not believe that the general public should be able to see a teacher's entire review.” Giving parents all the information that’s available is a bad idea, the argument goes, in part because they might start trying to make the kind of choices for their kids that they make every day about their lunches, their jobs, or their dry cleaners.  

Asked about the release of the Los Angeles teacher data at a recent community meeting, reformist D.C. school Chancellor Michelle Rhee replied with a personal story and a similar gut reaction: “I was looking at the data in my own children’s school,” she says. “I could see the teacher data. One good, one not so much. I pride myself on not giving my kids preferences. But as a mother i was like whoa! From an administrative point of view, it’s pretty terrifying.”

There were a lot of mothers in Los Angeles on Sunday who were like whoa. But none of those whoa moments will amount to much in a system starved of choice.

“I’m kind of waiting for the FOIA request in my mailbox,” says Rhee. It’s coming, alright. But it won’t be enough.

Katherine Mangu-Ward is a senior editor at Reason magazine.

The biggest decision public

'The biggest decision public school parents get to make about their child’s primary education is where they choose to live.'

most places anyway

And in Wake Co. where you

And in Wake Co. where you live in the county does not matter since all the schools are equal ... teach the same courses, using the same book from similar state employees ...that is the beauty of public education is that everyone is the same and gets the same ....not like the NE where you have to move from township to township in search of a good education determined by wealth.

Last week you were

Last week you were describing Barwell as an educational nightmare.  Today, all of our schools are equal.  Get help.

And in Wake Co. where you

And in Wake Co. where you live in the county does not matter since all the schools are equal ... teach the same courses,
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I hope you're being sarcastic.  Our schools vary quite a bit, even  in the same area,

Very sarcastic ... all

Very sarcastic ... all PUBLIC schools in a county should be the same ... no taxpayer has a right to a better education than another ... everyone has the opportunity to move to a different county but within these county boundaries no one should be compelled to move to get a better education ... but we know minorities and the poor get shafted so we are not there yet .... but we should be working that way ...

...

"...no taxpayer has a right to a better education than another..."

How does the magnet system fit into that mindset?

 

If government is looking for

If government is looking for volunteers to travel far from home to an under capacity ghetto school to avoid building a new one by offering an extra dance class in exchange that seems like a fair exchange.

Can we

Can we lay off the term ghetto? It's offensive to some people.

For the umpteenth time, it is not the schools in the lower income areas that would be undercapacity. They would be overcapacity if most of the children living near them weren't being bussed to more affluent areas. That is why there's been all the discussion about building schools in SE Raleigh. Per the WEP analysis, if every student went to the absolute closest school, the most overcapacity magnet school in the entire district would be Brentwood (at 260% of capacity), which is the highest poverty school in the district. Fuller and Washington would also be way over capacity (>150%). It is the schools in the more affluent areas ITB that would be undercapacity.

http://www.wakeedpartnership.org/news/d/ClosestSchool/Closest%20elementary%20by%20capacityv2.pdf

Add

Add the proposed Enloe/Southeast zone where the elementary schools would need another 500 or so seats, if students went to their nearest school or a school in the zone. 

That is why JT wants to build more schools in SE Raleigh. I guess he figures creating a zone that is 5% white might be problematic.  But hey - it wasn't intentional. 

Creating

No one is creating anything, the fact of the matter is that zone IS only 5% white.

Only 5% of the people who live in that area currently are white. Why aren't people as focused on integretion of residential patterns as they are on schools? If people had been focused on doing that for the last 40 years, instead of just where kids went to school, by now we could have our cake and eat it too by having diverse community schools in all areas. Was that intentional - "ok, let kids go to school together, just don't ask us to live together"? As someone "not from around here", I'm honestly asking. Why 40+ years after civil rights do we have an area, and only one area, of the county that is that minority isolated? Why are other areas not as isolated? How did these differences come to be?

So, did you mean creating a zone where only 5% of students attending schools in that zone are white?

"No one is creating

"No one is creating anything, the fact of the matter is that zone IS only 5% white."

Someone drew the lines, didn't they? 

Unless it's impossible to redraw the lines to get a different percentage it is not correct to say no one created that particular zone, or any of the other zones for that matter.

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.
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