It's probably safe to assume that a lot of people are wondering which schools might be recommended for conversion back to a traditional calendar.
As noted in today's article, no specific schools were named at Tuesday's school board meeting. But at this point it's only likely that a few of the 22 converted schools will be proposed.
This handout from Tuesday's committee of the whole meeting provides some clues as to where the staff and board will look at first. The key column to focus on in attachment 1 is which converted schools would still be under capacity if they were on a traditional calendar.
That percentage seemed to be a big deal to board members because it meant those schools could switch back and not be overcrowded.
Five schools fit the bill, but Holly Springs and Rand Road elementary schools are so close to 100 percent of traditional capacity that their chances of being considered aren't so good.
The other three schools are more likely to be considered for unconversion. Baucom Elementary is at 84 percent of its traditional capacity while Highcroft Elementary is at 87 percent and Lockhart Elementary is at 86 percent.
The rest of the handout is pretty interesting.
It shows how many new schools would need to be built for five options ranging from every school in Wake being on a traditional calendar to every school moving to a year-round calendar. Don Haydon, chief facilities and operations officer, stressed Tuesday that those are not the official options that will be presented for the next capital improvement program.
The board asked staff to look at the impact of unconverting some schools in one option. In another scenario, they want to look at the impact of opening some new schools on a traditional calendar to maintain the current ratio of year-round schools.
One spreadsheet shows how many seats have been gained from the 49 year-round schools.
Another sheet shows how many seats could be gained if every school became a year-round school.
One attachment shows the current official growth projections for Wake.
Another attachment has a projection done by Chuck Dulaney, assistant superintendent for growth and planning, about what enrollment could be like if this year's slower growth represents the new trend. Under this scenario, which Dulaney stressed is unofficial, enrollment could be 33,000 students below the official projection for 2017.
Comments
i like yr schools ,we
Tue, 10/21/2008 - 20:27 — Anonymous (not verified)i like yr schools ,we bought our house in a certain area so that our kids could go to Highcroft and I couldn't be happier. I hope it always stays yr . Almost all the parents Italk to agree.I even know someone who pulled her child from Cedar Fork and put her in Carpenter because the later was a year round school.
Parents Ponder The Future Of Year-Round Schools
Fri, 09/19/2008 - 19:20 — bigwinniehttp://wake.mync.com/site/wake/news%7CSports%7CLifestyles/story/9368/par...
What's the word at the 3
Fri, 09/19/2008 - 19:10 — ncarolinagirlWhat's the word at the 3 schools mentioned in the article? Anything from the administration and teachers? What about the "buzz" from the parents?
3 YR Schools in NW Raleigh
Fri, 09/19/2008 - 21:21 — Lisa_BThe 3 YR schools in NW Raleigh are Leesville, Brier Creek, and Sycamore Creek.
Leesville - the only MYR conversion of the 3, heavily opposed to the conversion before it was forced on the community, still fighting HARD to get ES converted back to traditional to follow the same calendar as the physically connected MS and HS.
Brier Creek - built as YR school, only a few years old, good reputation, pretty quiet if there is any effort at all to be converted to the traditional calendar.
Sycamore Creek - built as YR school, BRAND NEW (just opened this year), top notch administration and staff, families attending Sycamore Creek chose this school and the YR calendar even after they were offered the opportunity to opt-out to their old traditional school (Hilburn) so it's believed that they aren't attempting to make a calendar change anytime soon. (Leesville parents attempted to get WCPSS to open Sycamore Creek on the traditional calendar instead of YR and then allow Leesville families to opt-out to this school, but WCPSS insisted that this was being built as YR and would always be a YR school)
(That's just my opinion from what I've heard)
The BUZZ around Leesville is there because everyone has heard WCPSS will convert some MYR schools back to traditional calendar. We feel it makes sense that Leesville be at the top of the list, so everyone is VERY excited and encouraged about the prospect of finally having our entire campus back on the traditional calendar. Cautiously optimistic, but more excited and encouraged than we've been in a LONG time.
A Countywide Group BANDING Together
Fri, 09/19/2008 - 12:56 — Lisa_BSo, how can we get a group of people COUNTYWIDE to band together??
Given the recent announcement, I feel as though I need to advocate for my own family and our community RIGHT NOW as the BoE decides who will be the "lucky schools". Our community is ENERGIZED with excitement and anticipation of the POSSIBILITY of being one of the "chosen few". We haven't had this much positive buzz for a long time.
But, this is a countywide problem and regardless of which schools get chosen there will be some happy and even more disappointed.
Any suggestions? A group representing all areas of the county TOGETHER could make more of a difference than 22 separate groups battling for their own cause.
laurel parks chances
Fri, 09/19/2008 - 14:26 — Anonymous (not verified)Why not Laurel Park? It is so far under capacity, even on a traditional calendar model. Why has noone mentioned this school as a unconverted possibility? Noone has had time to get used to year round anyway.
Thanks, experts, for your opinion. I have two kids on traditional and one forced into Laurel Park YR. I would love to see it as a traditional calendar school.
You're at Leesville, aren't
Fri, 09/19/2008 - 13:46 — gwaihirYou're at Leesville, aren't you?
As I said to bigwinnie previously, in my opinion LES is at the bottom of the list of YR schools (including VYR schools in addition to MYR schools) to be converted to trad. I think LES got so far up the BOE's nose that they'll unconvert all the VYR schools as well as the other MYR schools, before they unconvert LES! Good luck anyway.
Yes, we're at Leesville
Fri, 09/19/2008 - 15:53 — Lisa_BWell, I guess we'll have to see. For some it has appeared that they have been out to "punish" Leesville, but I think the numbers speak for themselves so we'll see how they proceed. The big IF in this equation is whether or not our BoE rep (Patti Head) goes to bat for us.
While parents from many other schools have pointed fingers, screamed, etc... we've always been very involved but respectful to the BOE. Not only do they know that our familes and staff members do NOT want YR, they know that we have too many YR schools in our area. (3 of 4 schools are YR--all under capacity--1 as low as 60% now) We're the only physically-attached campus of 3 schools in the entire county (it would sure make sense to have all 3 schools on the traditional calendar)and we are the only one of the 3 that was a MYR conversion. (the other 2 were built specifically for YR and I have been told numerous times that those 2 will ALWAYS be YR)
Sadly, we've learned to EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED, so although it makes perfect sense to convert LES back to the traditional calendar we can't hold our breath.
Doesn't mean we're going to give up anytime soon... :)
I gotcha...
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 14:21 — Sideburnsg88k07,
Believe me, I know where you are coming from. Personally, I have no vested interest in any school going back to traditional. We opted-out and are happy (but crowded). I'm not taking sides. I'm just trying to look out for the good of my community. As it stands today, we have no options. If we get back a few, we have some option. If WakeCares wins their lawsuit, the parents of Wake County will once again have choice in education.
If you have a way to get all 22 schools converted back, just holler. I'm with you. Until then, I will be working hard to get more traditional calendar seats in Apex.
Sideburns be careful ...
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 14:07 — g88ky07... THAT is EXACTLY what this board wants is for us to separate and take sides by saying it doesn't matter which ones, yours, why not mine? why not their school? I'm only concerned about mine and so on...
We got into this as a group of ignored parents to fight the ridiculous results that are NOW being dangled in front of us TO PASS ANOTHER BOND PERIOD and we MUST stick together with an all for one mantra! It is STILL laughable to me that WE TOLD THEM SO, but what the _ell do parents know, that they would DARE talk about reversing anything. But then, we all remember Ann Goodnight and Ed Bonner don't we! It's easy FOR LIARS to say what they think people want to hear and then just kick them out of a meeting, delete a phone call or email or ignore a protest after the fact. Or in Ann and Ed's cases, just disappear.
I agree Apex got the deepest shaft, without the grease, but this HAS to continue to be a unified group fight. Do we not all agree?
To the lucky 2 or 3 schools that MIGHT get reversed, doubt it, those parents who did not agree with MYR before, and will now deal with re-assignments AGAIN, and had planned to help squash the next bond MUST continue to remember the rest of us and continue down the same road to do JUST that,
SQUASH THE BOND!
This current board does NOT deserve our support for ANYTHING and MUST be removed and defeated at bond time!
Regardless of whether or
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 14:30 — bigwinnieRegardless of whether or not LES gets converted back, I WILL NEVER vote for a bond for this BoE EVER EVER again, those kool-aid drinking "it's for the children" days are SO OVER.....and I will continue to fight for choice and I will continue to point out innacuracies, lies, deceit, false numbers, spin, you name it...I'll print it.
sick to death of the strangle hold that such a SMALL amount of people hold over such a LARGE community of families. it burns me,it REALLY burns me.
Unconverting
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 13:00 — SideburnsI think we are missing the point here. This is not about "saving" my school or "saving" your school. This is about bringing options back to our community, about family togetherness, about community cohesiveness. Apex has 4 of 5 elementary schools on a YR calendar. Many, many families are being split at the middle and high school level due to MYR. This simply should never have happened. We must get more traditional calendar seats back in our communities. There are hundreds of YR seats available at Mills Park, Laurel Park, Olive Chapel, Salem, Baucom and Highcroft yet there are NO traditional seats. Converting some schools back to traditional -- regardless of which specific ones -- makes sense.
MYR is not OK Anywhere
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 13:54 — Lisa_BI agree Sideburns. Everyone could make a case for their own individual school/area of town. There will be families everywhere who WANT YR too. When year-round schools were VOLUNTARY they were in demand.
While it would be nice to see all 22 reversed, I don't think that's going to happen. So, whatever is decided we'll be back to the "haves" and the "have nots".
I'm sure Highcroft will be
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 07:14 — Green Hope Opt Out (not verified)I'm sure Highcroft will be converted back. Ha! Many, many Highcroft parents I talked to when we were fighting the conversions said they didn't think MYR was a big deal. They didn't put up much of a fight so of course they would be converted back! What a joke! How about asking the parents at these schools whether they want MYR or not. Those would be numbers I'm interested in.
Good Luck Getting The Real Numbers
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 10:47 — Lisa_BHi Green Hope Opt Out:
The real numbers as to how your school population feels about the MYR conversion are KEY. Unfortunately, those who are in favor of YR will do all they can to be sure that you aren't able to put out that kind of survey.
We have a very small percentage of families who are in favor of MYR at Leesville. Fortunately we did have a PTA vote just before the MYR conversion where over 90% of the 400 people in attendance voted to oppose the conversion. We KNOW how our families felt at that time, and after experiencing MYR for the past 2 years even more people have decided that it's not working.
UNfortunately, both Chuck Dulaney and Patti Head were there to witness it all and still said "sorry, we see how you feel but we're moving forward anyway"
I'm curious to know that how many of the 22 MYR school actually WANT to keep the YR calendar.
The problem now is...
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 11:31 — gunfam..that you have a population in each of these schools that like YR, and were in VYR prior to this whole mess. So while there may be many familes that are against MYR, they still may not "vote" for a school to be un-converted since their children would have to move schools yet again. I can't blame them. There are also those who just don't want change again, and like YR now that they've tried it. Not me, BTW, and I would LOVE my schools to be back to TR, I wonder how many of the school's current populations would support un-converstion, even though they are not in support of MYR...just wondering.
Application Students
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 11:36 — Lisa_BWe do have a group of approximately 200 "application students" attending Leesville this year. WCPSS knew that we would have plenty of space, and opened us up as an application school for anyone who wanted to attend and was willing to provide their own transportation. I would say that other than that group of 200 new students who chose Leesville for the YR calendar, over 90% of the "old Leesville students" would prefer traditional. (the huge majority of our staff as well)
Fortunately for that new group, Sycamore Creek YR is only 2 miles away and has 450 available seats....brand new, great admin and staff, VERY appealing option that I'd be thrilled to take if they made it traditional.
it's not capped now - it
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 15:36 — Anonymous (not verified)it's not capped now - it was capped prior to the conversion. (for maybe 5 years?)
Where do you get the numbers? I don't mind finding them - I just don't know where to look.
Brassfield? anyway,
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 16:06 — bigwinnieBrassfield?
anyway, from www.wcpss.net website, I can look for the direct link later, the kids want to eat now, look under growth and planning (dept) and then (i think if I rember the wording, demographics?)
let me know if you dont' find it..
Got it
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 19:10 — Anonymous (not verified)thanks, that is perfect... got 'em.
great, good luck with it!
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 22:30 — bigwinniegreat, good luck with it!
...very frustrating
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 08:18 — Anonymous (not verified)...very frustrating indeed. at this point looking at the numbers that are documented, I am struggling to understand why it was ever capped. ?? (I don't know the history beyond what the numbers seem to say.)
IS this Brassfield we are
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 10:46 — bigwinnieIS this Brassfield we are talking about?
sorry! Yep...
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 12:54 — Anonymous (not verified)sorry! Yep...
ok I thought so....It
Thu, 09/18/2008 - 19:19 — bigwinnieok I thought so....It became capped quite suddenly about 5 years ago, a family I knew moved up there just to go there (a story we all know of or about) and they could've walked but found out that it was capped and had their two children wind up being bussed to Lynn Road school!
look at the F&R %'s for those years and I think you will see part of why it was capped....it's too far out for diversity bussing to raise F&R I believe and that's why it was capped, only what I have heard....
I don't have the capacity
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 15:02 — Anonymous (not verified)I don't have the capacity numbers for our school like winner does - it's one of the converted schools that is at +100% on that graphic in N. Raleigh. So it won't be a candidate for returning to traditional... I think it operated well above 100% prior to the conversion though, it was just capped.
The students today still have very early and late lunches, and classrooms are empty for at least half the year. (Kids only change rooms after Christmas.)
I guess it's one of the more utilized MYR schools in the grand scheme of things. Not as utilized as it was intended to be though.
I can probably get them if
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 15:27 — bigwinnieI can probably get them if you'd like....converted and capped?
capped prior to this year as well?
What about mine!!!
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 10:51 — g88ky07Lisa B. is right, howdy, NOW the fights of INEQUALITY will grow EVEN more!
What about my school? Why not my school?
What about your school? Why not my school?
The way this has been handled from DAY ONE has been exactly, EXACTLY, what MANY of us said would happen. NOW they want to dangle the produce so as to start working their Ann Goodnight Bond spin and tell us how MANY more schools would need to be built, converted, reversed etc... to achieve their next goal.
NOT INTERESTED Ann or School system. NOT AT ALL!
YOU are crashing like the markets and YOU deserve EVERY LAST OUNCE of the pain and stress.
Oh btw, what about my school??? WHY not my school!!!
Thats the plan - make them fight
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 10:39 — Anonymous (not verified)By only converting back "some" of the schools they can pit the parents against each other instead of against the school board. Brilliant plan - deceive the public and deflect the arguments.
What about Sycamore Creek?
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 09:33 — NWRaleighMomWhat about Sycamore Creek? It can become traditional and still stay under capacity. Cedar Forks in Morrisville, on the other hand, is quite crowded.
Cedar Fork is crowded
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 12:45 — Anonymous (not verified)Cedar Fork is crowded because the parents want traditional schools there. If there were more traditional choices, it wouldn't be so crowded.
NW Raleigh Has Too Many YR Seats
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 09:56 — Lisa_BYes, Sycamore Creek could definitely be traditional---and then allow all of us to opt-out and attend. It's a beautiful new school with a top-notch administration and staff.
BUT, when we suggested this before the school opened we were told that Sycamore Creek was being built as a YR school and would always be a YR school.
Contrary to the Leesville families who fought MYR before it was forced on us and are still BEGGING to be converted back to traditional, I've been told is that the Sycamore Creek families WANT YR.
Most of the old Hilburn population was moved up to Sycamore Creek this year BUT they were actually given the option of staying at Hilburn as their traditional option (sweet deal). Most chose to move to Sycamore Creek anyway, so I don't think they're a school that will be considered to be converted back to traditional ahead of the 22 forced MYR conversions. They've got plenty of space to handle students who choose YR though.
The capacity numbers on that report are incorrect for Leesville too---our traditional capacity is actually over 1000 but only listed as 860 on the attachment. We could handle our current students on a traditional calendar although the 200 "application students" who wanted a YR school would probably not stay. NO BRAINER here.
correct, LES has operated
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 10:12 — bigwinniecorrect, LES has operated at
105% in 03/04,
114.1% in 04/05,
101.4% in 05/06,
91.5 in 06/07 (mobile units jumped from 16-19) and
76.7% in 07/08 (MYR instituted)
Bless Your Heart Big Winner
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 10:29 — Lisa_BBless Your Heart Big Winner:
I'll leave it to you to bring the cold, hard facts out. And even with the low numbers, we STILL have early/late lunches and trailers that were supposed to go away. (I don't mind the trailers--just don't like being lied to)
BUT, now that we have the trailers on campus, let's use them and operate on the desired traditional calendar.
yes, early/late lunches,
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 10:41 — bigwinnieyes, early/late lunches, trailers AND EMPTY CLASSROOMS DURING TRACK-OUTS, don't forget that cost-saving fact as well. :+)
so could Brier Creek go
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 09:42 — bigwinnieso could Brier Creek go Traditional for that matter...
Brier Creek area has lots of
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 09:50 — NWRaleighMomBrier Creek area has lots of new subdivisions (which usually have many families with very young children) and is still developing. The area around Sycamore Creek does not have many new developments.
true I suppose. then
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 09:53 — bigwinnietrue I suppose. then Sycamore Creek should become the Traditional "option" for LES to opt-out to.
Isn't...
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 09:23 — gunfam...this new 3-year plan due out next month? NOW they are considering changing "1 or 2" schools back to TR...gee thanks. How can they get this in the plan? And what does it mean for the future, especially if they learn that MYR will STILL be against the law. This 3-year plan is sounding more like a joke as time goes on, though it *is* the right idea. I *do* feel for those families that were VYR and switched "back to base" and will be effected by a reversal of their schools to tradtional. That's why so many of us fought it BEFORE it was done. We KNEW that reversal would be harder than stopping it in the first place. If only BOE would have reconsidered MYR for a year or 2, we would be in a better place. As with Do3, I too would support more funding for schools when they support me as a parent. Untill then...nope.
Build, baby, build!
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 07:33 — Anonymous (not verified)Build the schools and put everyone on the same calendar, be it traditional or modified year-round. And cut out the busing; it's too expensive! Give extra funds to the schools with high concentrations of F&R students in order to reduce class sizes to less than 20 in all grades, and pay the teachers who want to work there more.
Honestly, it's so easy I can figure it out before coffee and with a toddler screaming at me for juice.
It does seem so simple
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 15:29 — Anonymous (not verified)It does seem so simple doesnt it. Unfortunately Wake County is too politically correct to think with their brains!
It makes copious sense!
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 07:11 — Dadof3Time to repeat: I will support more funds for WCPSS if they support me as a parent. It would reflect an important realignment with the parents of Wake County, which should be a fundamental priority, not something they'll get to after Del and Chuck are done moving our kids around like pawns over their distopia chess board.
Kindergarten loss percentage
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 06:56 — NCBoyMommyWhat is the Kindergarten loss percentage (10.53%) referenced on page 9 of 12?
Kindergarten loss
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 07:00 — KeungHui (author)That reflects the blip in the kindergarten numbers that will be caused in 2009 when the state's new Aug. 31 registration date kicks in. A lot of kids who'd turn 5 between Sept. 1 and Oct. 15 in 2009 will now have to wait until 2010 to start kindergarten. This should shrink the 2009 numbers.
Look at the Assumptions- page 3
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 06:48 — shank56When the planning assumptions are discussed along with costs and potentaial tax increase , the parents' wishes and that of non-parent taxpayers tend to split, IMO.
ASSUMPTIONS - Key word POTENTIAL
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 07:17 — Voice_of_Reason_While I agree tax increases are not what the general public want; I don't think they like waste either. The key word is potential - The figures they present are almost always exaggerated and present the worse case scenerio. Anyway money will be needed to counter the almost sure propaganda campaign WCPSS will launch. It is important to point out now and then whenever we see waste, poor planning, lack of results, and poor oversight in WCPSS. The sad thing is I am for building more schools and paying for them, but I wll never vote for another Bond as long as MYR exists because I know it hurts this county in general.
Taxpayers Deserve To Know The Truth
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 07:14 — Lisa_BAs long as WCPSS is honest with the taxpayers, they'll be able to make educated decisions. With the spin that they're fed, they don't know the whole truth.
YR schools are sold as "cost savers", but that is only if every seat in every class in every grade on every track is FULL. (THAT little explanation is something that is left out when the cost savings of YR are being preached) To taxpayers without children in the system, they are led to believe that YR schools actually save tax dollars, but in the current situation that's just not true. Tax dollars are WASTED when operating under-capacity year-round schools.
What was promoted in the
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 07:27 — shank56What was promoted in the last bond, and what I heard at the bond meetings - was the conversion of 3 elementary's to YR, would save 1 EL from being built during these years of rapid growth.
I realize that some of you apparently heard differently and also realize that teh current YR's are not operating at capacity. It would make me happy for everyone to see MYR reversed, but IMO, the taxpayers are not going to fund it
It's ALL in the delivery (spin)
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 09:18 — Lisa_BI actually did hear exactly what was said (sold) and so did the CC, which is why they did not fund the MYR conversions. They knew that the MYR experiment would NEVER be able to live up to it's overexaggerated gain.
Yes, in theory, multi-track year-round schools CAN save money IF they are utilized to their capacity.
In reality, money is being wasted operating these under capacity schools. In my opinion, THAT is what the public deserves to know. I think taxpayers without children in the system are more interested in SAVING MONEY and if they knew how many millions of dollars are being wasted they'd be up-in-arms about it.
I'm all for FULL DISCLOSURE and TRANSPARENCY. Lay it all out on the table and work from there with HONESTY and REALISTIC solutions.
The sneakiness and deceit just combine to dig the policy makers deeper and deeper into a hole.
110% correct
Wed, 09/17/2008 - 07:19 — bigwinniebut the taxpayers will NEVER learn the truth from WCPSS, it is up to "other" sources to fully portray the cost LOSS of under-enrolled YR schools. Classrooms sitting empty during track-outs are NOT cost savings.Half empty- busses running YR are NO cost savings. Utilities being run YR for empty classrooms are NOT cost savings..but taxpayers without a player in the game, don't know (and quite possibly DON'T CARE) are concerned about bottom line and WCPSS standard spin is that YR saves money. It's that simple (yet that convoluted)