It's not your imagination if your kid's year-round class size looks larger than normal.
As noted in today's article, some year-round schools have classes of more than 30 students while others are in the high 20s. The state's budget shortfall is being blamed for much of the problem for the larger class sizes.
"We don't have a lot of flexibility with staffing as we have had in the past," said Shelly Watson, principal of Green Elementary School in North Raleigh.
To guard against a 5 percent state funding cut, Wake told principals to only fill 95 percent of positions. While traditional-calendar schools can wait it out until Aug. 25 to see if the state budget is adopted, year-round schools that opened Tuesday have to work under these budget challenges.
One example is Salem Elementary School in Apex, where Principal Savon Willard said enrollment is about the same as last year. But she said she's got funding for 38 teaching positions, compared to 43 last school year.
Willard said she ran into a problem deciding what to do with 44 students in two Track 3 fourth-grade classes that ended the school year last week. She said she didn't have the funding to operate two fifth-grade classes on Track 3.
Willard said she knew about the problem months ago and began asking those Track 3 parents if they'd voluntarily switch tracks. This dropped this year's Track 3 fifth-grade class to 31 students.
Willard is still hoping that some of those remaining parents will change tracks to drop the size further. She said she's trying to avoid involuntarily changing tracks.
Just about every Wake school, including Salem Elementary, has a state waiver giving permission to exceed 29 students in grades 4-9. But Wake is still supposed to maintain a districtwide average of no more than 29 students in those grades.
Depending on the budget, we could see class and even track reorganizations at year-round schools.
Comments
It's more important
Sun, 07/12/2009 - 20:57 — g88ky07to operate FYR schools under the FYR dictatorship, have many class rooms with doors closed, lights off and teachers gone, than it is to use "common sense" in our troubled times and convert many or most of these schools back and focus on EDUCATION!
Makes perfect sense for our current BoE! After this Fall let's take another count!
Until then, large classes, not enough desks and principals threatening to change your track, and ALL the rest of the blowback, are going to be the way it is thanks to people like Patti Head, Lori Millberg and Horace Tart!
Contact who might can help
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 22:41 — momof2goodboysI saw this post under another topic, and I hope you don't mind that I moved it her Angela. Thank you!
Contact ASchauss@dpi.state.nc.us Alexis Schauss--she's who I dealt with last year on class sizes and know that WCPSS is already "on watch" for too many waivers requested--- A. Local boards of education must maintain a LEA- wide class size average no higher than the class size ratio of teachers to students of the following: Kindergarten 1 to 21 Grade 1 1 to 21 Grade 2 1 to 21 Grade 3 1 to 21 Grade span 4-9 1 to 26 Grade span 10-12 1 to 29 NOTE: Charter schools are exempt from class size and teacher daily load requirements. B. During the first two months of school, no class size maximum requirements exist as long as the LEA-wide class size average maximums for each grade or grade span are not exceeded. At the end of the second school month and for the remainder of the school year, the size of an individual class may exceed the LEA-wide ratio by three students so long as the LEA-wide average class size maximums not exceeded. Therefore, individual class size ratio maximums are: Kindergarten 1 to 24 Grade 1 1 to 24 Grade 2 1 to 24 Grade 3 1 to 24 Grade span 4-9 1 to 29 Grade span 10-12 1 to 32 When a class contains a combination of grades for more than one grade span, the maximum class size will be determined by the grade span classification which constitutes the majority in the class. Example: If the membership of the class is composed of 15 students classified as ninth graders and 16 students classified as tenth and/or eleventh graders, the maximum class size would be the maximum allowable for grades 10-12. When teachers are assigned students in a team-teaching setting, each teacher in the team is considered to be responsible for an equal number of students in the class, regardless of how frequently the teacher actually teaches. Page 33 of 67 C. Teachers in grades 7 through 12 must be assigned teaching responsibilities during the course of the school day for no more than 150 students from the fifteenth day of the school year through the end of the school year. A teacher's daily load is determined by summing the size of each individual academic class for which the teacher is assigned teaching responsibility. Only those teachers with a daily contact load of students exclusively in the seventh grade or above are subject to the daily student load maximum. D. If individual class size exceeds 24 in grades K, 1, 2, or 3, 29 students in grade span 4-9, or 32 students in grade span 10-12 at the end of the second school month and for the remainder of the school year, or if a teacher's daily load exceeds 150 students (grades 7-12) after the 15th school day, the local board has the responsibility to follow the steps set forth in G.S. 115C-301(g) and G.S.115C-47(10). E. Study halls and homerooms are not counted when calculating average LEA-wide class size average or teacher daily load. (All other classes are to be included in the calculation of LEA-wide class size averages.) F. Maximum size for physical education classes shall be 50 students as long as the effectiveness of the instructional program is not impaired. (Health classes and classes designated as Health and Physical Education are subject to normal maximums.) The maximum daily load for teachers with five classes of physical education would be 250 students. G. Two classes of up to 29 students each may be simultaneously scheduled for elementary physical education. The resulting physical education class may have no more than 58 students. When such a class is organized, a second participating adult must be assigned to help manage it. The second adult may be a teacher or a teacher assistant. H. The above class size and daily load limits do not apply to music performance ensembles (Vocal Music, Orchestra, Band, and Jazz Ensemble). I. Class size and daily load maximums apply to all teachers, including those which are state, federally, and locally funded. J. Teachers employed in vocational education, exceptional children, remediation, instructional support, etc., should be used to meet class size requirements when the school is determining its organization and teacher workload. Their classes are subject to all class size and teacher daily load maximums. Page 34 of 67 II. INITIAL REPORTING OF CLASS SIZE Under the provisions of G.S. 115C-301(f) and G.S. 115C-47(10): A. Class size and teacher daily load exceptions will be identified and reported via the School Activity Report (SAR). A school's SAR will be transmitted one week following the transmission of the school's Principal's Monthly Report for the second school month. B. All class size and teacher daily load overages not allowed by a waiver must be corrected by the LEA. Corrections may be made by reorganization of classes, by correcting inaccurate data at the school level, or by requesting a class size waiver under the ABCs program or exceptions waiver from the State Board of Education (see III. and IV. below). Corrected class size and teacher daily load data should be retransmitted. Class size and teacher daily load overages in schools without waivers will be called to the attention of the State Board of Education. C. The State Board will report all allotment adjustments and waivers permitted to the Office of State Budget and Management and the General Assembly by May 15 of each year. III. ALLOTMENT ADJUSTMENTS OR WAIVERS DUE TO EXCESS CLASS SIZE Under the provisions of G.S. 115C-301(g) and 115C-47(10): A. The Department of Public Instruction is authorized to review and respond to, on the State Board's behalf, an LEA's request for a waiver of class size requirements for individual classes or an LEA's request for a waiver of teacher daily load requirements. B. Local boards of education are responsible for assuring the class size and teacher daily load requirements set forth in G.S. 115C-301 are met. Any teacher who believes the requirements of G.S. 115C-301 have not been met shall make a report to the principal and superintendent. The superintendent shall immediately determine whether the requirements have in fact not been met. If the superintendent determines the requirements have not been met, he/she shall make a report to the next local board of education meeting. The local board of education shall take action to meet the requirements of the statute. If the local board cannot organizationally correct the exception and if any of the conditions set out below are met, it shall immediately apply to the State Board of Education for additional personnel or waiver from the standards set above. The Individual Class Size Waiver form can be located on the Financial and Business Services’ Web page www.ncpublicschools.org/fbs/accounting/forms/ .
Problems w/ large class sizes
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 16:40 — MudcrutchAt the classroom level the large class sizes are a nightmare for students, teachers and staff. Several parents I have talked to say that their children's classrooms did not have enough desks to accommodate all students. Some classrooms are bringing in tables from offices to give students a place to sit. There is not enough cubby space for students to place their personal items. The lunch lines are so long some students barely have a couple of minutes to eat their lunch once they get through the line. Parents are going in and calling the front office complaining about class sizes, lunch lines, carpool lines. It was total chaos. I felt so sorry for the office staff and administrators. It is not their fault but they are having to hear about it all day long.
Problems w/ large class sizes
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 16:39 — MudcrutchAt the classroom level the large class sizes are a nightmare for students, teachers and staff. Several parents I have talked to say that their children's classrooms did not have enough desks to accommodate all students. Some classrooms are bringing in tables from offices to give students a place to sit. There is not enough cubby space for students to place their personal items. The lunch lines are so long some students barely have a couple of minutes to eat their lunch once they get through the line. Parents are going in and calling the front office complaining about class sizes, lunch lines, carpool lines. It was total chaos. I felt so sorry for the office staff and administrators. It is not their fault but they are having to hear about it all day long.
School staff are between the proverbial rock and a hard place
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 17:20 — Falcas they are on many of these issues. Parents need to raise their concerns to the district leadership. These issues were not created by school staff, they are district driven. School staff need as much understanding and support as possible.
Parents should be going in/calling in to Central Office and their BOE rep, not the individual schools. It's impacting multiple schools in the district. That way the district leadership can do full a scope assessment and be on top of it.
Actually, I think the "local level"
Mon, 07/13/2009 - 08:08 — g88ky07is exactly where to take your concerns! Raising "concerns to the district and your "so called" rep" is the biggest waste of time known to man and the past has proven that!
These principals who are threatening to force your track changed are exactly who needs to hear your frustration. Then THEY can waste their time taking it to the "so called" leaders.
Let's see what THAT accomplishes! It has not worked for parents!!
Well...
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 17:04 — Bob_SconceIn defense of the schools, the first few days are ALWAYS chaotic. I'm more interested in what things look like at the end of next week.
Private school class size much smaller
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 11:32 — kmisegadesIn a just-released study by the JLF, the average class size in NC private schools was found to be only 14 children. The average annual tuition for private elementary schools is around $5,000, about half the annual cost for each public school child in NC. No wonder that the study also found continued strong growth in private schools, despite the recession, and strong support for vouchers among private school parents, who righly question why they are forced to pay twice to educate their children. Vouchers for private schools would not only relieve crowding at Wake public schools, but they would save us nearly $5,000 per child, far more than the Governor's proposed new taxes will affect the state's economy.
Here's a link to the JLF study:
http://www.johnlocke.org/policy_reports/display_story.html?id=200
“In a just-released study
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 11:57 — user1234“In a just-released study by the JLF, the average class size in NC private schools was found to be only 14 children. The average annual tuition for private elementary schools is around $5,000, about half the annual cost for each public school child in NC.”
Since private schools have the pick of the litter (including motivated parents) and don’t have to take anyone who walks through the door of course they can provide the service for less. Cherry picking the low hanging fruit will always produce these favorable results so it is not an honest comparison. I think once private schools get into the real world and take everyone who walks through the door – no English, Special Ed, low income, homeless, transient, etc. – the economics would change.
Too easy..
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 13:52 — CitizenmomUser, it is too easy to say that if private schools were forced to take everyone who walked in the door they would face the same costs.
First, appropriations for public schools are done by category. Private schools largely fund all costs with tuition. You could then argue that private schools receive endowments and fund raise, but public schools receive grants, PTA fundraising and taxpayer funded special projects/initiatives. Per pupil expenditures by public schools do not reflect capitol funding, grants, and such.
Then consider charter schools, they too must take whoever walks in the door albiet via a lottery with a maximum student cap.
Even before the budget cuts, they applied for waivers for class sizes on certain tracks. MYR to be more cost effective must be properly managed and realize the theoretical capacity gains. It hasn't and doesn't. Thus we are left with overcrowded classes, in more expensive to operate schools.
Someone below pointed out the complications involved in trying to allocate resources on multitrack year round. They did not address the issue of diversity amongst tracks, which presents a whole other issue in a system that premises so much policy on the goal. Is it more compelling to have affluent tracks and poorer tracks, than it is to have affluent schools and poorer schools?
The real difference in private and public options falls with motive. A private option must meet the demands of customers choosing to pay in order to have customers. The public non-charter schools do not rely on their performance/customer satisfaction to remain funded.
“Then consider
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 14:53 — user1234“Then consider charter schools, they too must take whoever walks in the door albiet via a lottery with a maximum student cap. “
That never seemed right to me. It seemed by having an application process that requires informed and motivated parents you are skewing the student population of a charter school compare to a public school. Also, I thought charter schools gave priority to charter teacher’s kid which also skews the population. I know my neighbors who go to Raleigh Charter which was rated as one of the top in the nation are not random, ordinary families. They are informed and have been working the magnet program for years to position their kids to attend and do well at RC. Those RC families don’t at all look like (not a racial comment) the population of my wife’s academic classes which often are repeating a grade for the second or third time.
Ral Charter
Thu, 07/09/2009 - 07:58 — shank56"Those RC families don’t at all look like (not a racial comment) the population of my wife’s academic classes "
A quick look at those 1069 tested in 07-08 at Raleigh Charter from the disaggregations at ncpublicschools .org :
77% white
7 % black
10% asian
2% hispanic
5% multi race
None labeled " economically disadvantaged"
1066 students labeled Not Limited English proficient (LEM) so I gather there are 3 students who are LEM
70 students with disabilities- 7 autistic, 34 specific learning disabilty, 29 other health impairment
RC did not track AG students last year as in the previous year. I gather all who attend RC are motivated and focused students. Looking at the avg scale scores for "all" RC students vs the "non-disabled "students shows the scores very close (within a couple of tenths.)
Just looking at a handful of Wake County high schools vs RC- the avg scale scores in Eng I, Biology, Alg II- the WCPSS AG students easily hang with the RC students. Leesville AG students top RC in ENG, Bio, Alg II.
I need to break out my stat
Thu, 07/09/2009 - 09:25 — user1234I need to break out my stat book. I will do from memory. Please correct me if wrong: 77% white RC vs., 52% for WCPSS. Given a random lottery of kids where 52% are white, what is the probability of picking 77% white students? Actual: 1067 x 77% = 822, Estimated: 1067 x 52% = 555, Delta= 267 StDev =(1067*52%*48%)^0.5= 16 266/16=16 Even Wake’s “whitest” school, Green Hope, is only 71% white.
You do realize...
Thu, 07/09/2009 - 10:29 — CitizenmomYou do realize that to be in the lottery for RCH the family must actually apply? If RCH did not have applicants from various demographic groups and/or the number of them was not in proportion to the general population then the lottery results will reflect that.
But Why?
Sun, 07/12/2009 - 11:24 — user1234But ask yourself why a certain portion of the population, soon to be the majority, would remove themselves from the application pool? Who would voluntarily turn down a free superior education for their kids? and why?
You do realize...
Thu, 07/09/2009 - 10:29 — CitizenmomYou do realize that to be in the lottery for RCH the family must actually apply? If RCH did not have applicants from various demographic groups and/or the number of them was not in proportion to the general population then the lottery results will reflect that.
"If RCH did not have
Thu, 07/09/2009 - 12:53 — user1234"If RCH did not have applicants from various demographic groups and/or the number of them was not in proportion to the general population then the lottery results will reflect that."
Do you think they ran out of applications when they got to non-whites? Just kidding. Actually, what you are saying is what I have said that charter school student pool is not reflective of the public school population when making comparisons, maybe because non-whites don't understand how to apply ... still, I am surprised since RC uses public money they have not been questioned on having mostly a white school which does not reflect the racial makeup of the surroundng community.
Huh...
Fri, 07/10/2009 - 00:09 — Bob_Sconce"Maybe non-whites don't understand how to apply"
You're absolutely right. The application form is almost certainly printed in a special 'white-only' language that only people whose ancestors came from Europe can understand.
A not-snarky answer to your point is that statistically, if you take 5,000 black students and 5,000 white students and randomly assign them to 200 different schools, some of those schools will have noticably higher concentrations of one group than others. These things happen randomly. In fact, it would be suspicious if this did not happen. So, it's a waste of good resources to have the state question the 1/3 of the schools that fall outside a standard deviation.
Besides, what's the harm? It's a school that does a great job of teaching its students, taking some stress of WCPSS and is less expensive. That sounds like a win-win to me.
No harm if they are not
Fri, 07/10/2009 - 10:09 — user1234No harm if they are not discriminating either intentionally or unintentionally. Note, if you start with 50 black and 50 white kids and pick 77 white once it is possible but it you pick 77 or greater over multiple years it is highly improbably the process is fair and random. I think it is great they are doing a good job and they seem to be doing similar to Green Hope which is 72% white. What is incorrect is to compare RC to WCPSS in general when they obviously have a select group of students supposedly chosen randomly.
So...
Sat, 07/11/2009 - 14:31 — Bob_SconceThey have a diversity initiative and claim that they don't discriminate based on any of the protected classes.
Note that it's not discriminatory to offer a program that might appeal more to one group of students than to another. In fact, that's a central idea behind charter schools.
I agree that you cannot do a simplistic comparison of any charter school to WCPSS if that charter school doesn't serve the same population. But, if the charter school serves a subset of the population that WCPSS serves, then you can see how both serve that population.
“They have a diversity
Sat, 07/11/2009 - 18:45 — user1234“They have a diversity initiative and claim that they don't discriminate based on any of the protected classes. “
Their initiative appears to be a failure given they are 77% white in a 53% white area with no public school even close.
“Note that it's not discriminatory to offer a program that might appeal more to one group of students than to another. In fact, that's a central idea behind charter schools.”
It appears from what I have read on the blogs the key to staying White is Algebra if that is in fact a prerequisite for RC.
Does getting to Algebra in MS require you be AG in ES? I am betting that if you are in a High Needs school they may not even offer Algebra because there is no interest due to having so many high needs kids. I thought I also remember someone talking about how tracking prevented minorities from getting to Algebra in MS which put them back in getting to the higher level of math in HS. Now it appears the system prevents minorities from being eligible for RC too. If all that is true it is very legal and very effective at keeping them White.
So...
Sat, 07/11/2009 - 18:53 — Bob_SconceA 53% white area? According to the Census, Wake County is about 73% white. See http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/37/37183.html .
IIRC, the requirement is that you be ready for algebra I, not that you have
taken it. Most 8th graders take pre-algebra; the advanced ones take algebra I.
53% White ... (ref: WCPSS
Sun, 07/12/2009 - 11:19 — user123453% White ... (ref: WCPSS site) I was referring to the public school population not the general population to compare the schools. So, why do you think RC has such a hard time attracting non-whites? Interest? Readiness? To maintain such a high white % (77%) over time should have been difficult to do with random application pulling from a pool of on 53% whites. Maybe non-whites are not uniformly not even algebra ready?
Hmm
Mon, 07/13/2009 - 07:47 — Bob_SconceDitto to what Gwaihir said, with the addition that I suspect there are some folks who apply to RCHS and, if they don't get in, send their kids to private school, home school or some other charter. You can't compare with WCPSS' ratio.
And, suppose it is interest or readiness -- so what? Many NC charters are focused on students with different interests or abilities. One of the ideas behind charters is to allow them to serve the needs of students with different interests.
Your reasoning is
Sun, 07/12/2009 - 20:01 — gwaihirYour reasoning is faulty.
The RCHS group is not drawing from the WCPSS group. RCHS, and WCPSS, are *each* a group which is drawing from the overall population - and the population is all of school-age Wake County.
WCPSS competes against RCHS to draw students from the population that is Wake County school-age children. So do other private schools, and homeschool groups.
Since Wake County at large is apparantly 73% white, RCHS is close to this with 77% white. Given the random nature of lottery drawing, that seems pretty good to me.
Seems like I remember when
Fri, 07/10/2009 - 12:52 — shank56Seems like I remember when Rc was formed, the founders intent was to serve high achievers, so that was who applied and initially took the chance. I believe legacies can follow too, so the random selection pool may be small to begin with.
Look at Torchlight Academy and its student population- probably what the framers intended.
IIRC, Quest Academy was formed to serve young athletes (gymnasts maybe) who spent a lot of time on the road and who needed academic basics without the fluff. Doubtful that many students with disabilities can be found here. (Haven't checked though)
I don't believe siblings can
Fri, 07/10/2009 - 15:02 — NWRaleighMomI don't believe siblings can follow. There is also a prerequisite (Algebra? ).
So...
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 17:14 — Bob_SconceWhat are they doing to work the system? Are they having any success? We don't have any 8th graders yet, but if there's something we can start doing now to help their chances of getting in, I'm all ears.
With regard to the "but, you have to be informed to know to apply," if a private school were forced to accept "all comers," wouldn't parents still have to at least get off their duffs and make the effort?
In any case, I don't buy that the entire difference between Raleigh Charter and, say, Sanderson, is that Raleigh Charter has some of its teachers' kids and that RC parents had to make an effort to apply for the lottery. Sure, there's probably a selection bias, but does the curriculum, size, etc... have no benefit at all?
"Sure, there's probably a
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 19:31 — user1234"Sure, there's probably a selection bias, but does the curriculum, size, etc... have no benefit at all?"
I agree. Innovative charter schools can have an edge. I am just saying taking all Sanderson students (50% high needs) and comparing them to RC may not be fair. Maybe just taking the Honor and AP students at both would be a better comparison. Does RC even offer academic level and special ed classes?
Hmm...
Thu, 07/09/2009 - 09:31 — Bob_SconceSo, in looking at the RCHS curriculum (http://www.raleighcharterhs.org/studentlife/courseguides/courseguide2009-10.pdf ), I noticed that they have a "Curriculum Assistance" class intended for students with IEPs. They are clearly not particularly well set-up for kids with serious special needs like downs syndrome or autism.
But, part of the idea behind Charter Schools is to allow for specialization and to break away from the morass of rules that bind public schools.
One flaw with how NC does charter schools is that the charter school gets a set amount per student. This makes it impossible to do a charter school focused on, e.g., autistic kids. I would easily support a modification that gave a lot more to those charter schools who focused on high-needs kids.
Funding
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 08:54 — Bob_SconceThis is one reason why funding schools out of income taxes is a bad idea. It's far too easy to raise spending in good times and then leave office in bad times. It makes much more sense for schools to be funded from property taxes, which vary a lot less.
FairTax better
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 11:25 — kmisegadesThe FairTax collects revenue solely on the purchase of new goods and services. Historically, a much more stable source of revenue than from income taxes. Read the FairTax book or see fairtax.org for details. It's time is overdue.
"The FairTax collects
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 11:40 — user1234"The FairTax collects revenue solely on the purchase of new goods and services."
It would seem that purchaces of anything new would be the first to tank during a financial meltdown like we had?
Well...
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 12:56 — Bob_SconceIt's possible to be more stable than an income tax and still fluctuate with the economy.
IIRC, the FairTax is basically just a value-added tax. If the country's GDP goes down, then FairTax revenue will go down also. But, since the income of high wage earners goes down significantly in a recession, an economic hit really affects income tax revenue, much more than it affects FairTax revenue.
In any case, I believe Property Tax revenue is flatter than either FairTax or Income Tax in an economic downturn.
"In any case, I believe
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 14:39 — user1234"In any case, I believe Property Tax revenue is flatter than either FairTax or Income Tax in an economic downturn. "
That was what I was thinking too.
Perhaps the Gov't could
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 13:26 — shearertwPerhaps the Gov't could just spend like its a recession ALL the time....
Problem solved.
User, Please describe to
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 12:42 — shearertwUser,
Please describe to me what a "used" service would be?
Also, how many used shirts did you buy from Goodwill in the last year?
Perhaps sales of new cars would decline, oh wait, they did anyway, without a fairtax.
"Please describe to me what
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 14:37 — user1234"Please describe to me what a "used" service would be? "
Sorry, I am not familar with that term.
You suggested that people
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 15:25 — shearertwYou suggested that people would not purchase "new" services during a economic downturn. I was wondering what "used" services would look like. It was a joke.
I still think you are all missing the boat.
When NC had a surplus a couple years back...they spent it ALL. Gov't should operate as lean as possible, as if it was always a bad economic year. If there is money left over at the end of the year, send it back to the people you took it from. Instead, gov't grows in the good years and then complains they don't have enough in the bad years. If they hadn't grown at all, they'd have plenty.
I get what you are saying
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 16:27 — Falcbut it would require a change in the way budgeting is handled and incented. Too much budgeting is year to year "use or lose it" and "next year you get 1.X% of the amount spent this year," thus incenting $ to be spent as much as possible.
I do know of situations where extra funds were allowed to be 'retained' and they were saved for a rainy day, but I've heard a lot more of the "hurry up and spent it on something you don't actually need" stories.
I agree with what you are saying, I just don't have much hope these days in the sheeple. They'll keep letting themselves be fleeced.
Got it ... tax new
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 16:22 — user1234Got it ...
tax new things - I was thinking that when the meltdown occured I did not buy any new or used thing accept new food ... so, any taxes based on what I buy during a meltdown will be zero since I won't be buying anything ...
Understand on the ups and downs of govt sending ... I thought they had a rainy day fund to help to smooth things out? I would have thought that you could shut down a lot of capital projects like roads and building for a year to smooth out the operational budget ... really who needs a new road when you don't have a job or customers and a one or two year delay on those capital projects should not be the end of the world ... that is what I was wondering about WCPSS which spends $1B in operations and $1B in capital in round numbers. Maybe we can not transfer the money but we should not need a $1B in capital projects this year with the decreased growth.
Don't forget that
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 16:33 — Falcthe government views capital spending as "economic stimulation." Remember all the funding for bridges, etc. in the stimulus. I just can't figure out how an out of work teacher or banker is supposed to suddenly get a job as a bridge builder.
As long as they say the
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 16:47 — shearertwAs long as they say the DON'T have a SSN or provide a false one, they'll get the job.
I'm a Salem parent and my
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 08:38 — mdhillisonI'm a Salem parent and my rising 5th grader on track 4 has 30 kids in it. The other track 4 5th grade class has 30 too. I like year round school, sad it was mandatory but get why something had to be done. However this many 5th grade classes with 30 kids is too many.
WCPSS promised us a 25%
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 08:57 — CaryCurmudgeonWCPSS promised us a 25% increase in capacity by converting schools to MYR, I didn't realized it would be achieved through increasing class size instead of year-round utilization of the buildings.
I feel for you. My son was at Salem. Because I already had a high-schooler when they converted it we were forced to transfer him to another school. Salem was great. And Bobby Hinson is the best band director in Wake County.
"I didn't realized it would
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 11:33 — user1234"I didn't realized it would be achieved through increasing class size instead of year-round utilization of the buildings. "
I am not sure the 25% increase in building utilization from YR is directly related to the increase in class size (teacher utilization) due to the financial meltdown. One is a policy decision made a while ago to compensate for than hyper population growth / defer capital projects and the other is an immediate reaction to not having enough state money this year. Traditional schools will have the same pain this fall with huge classes. Maybe we can learn some things this summer on managing large classes in YR to compensate before the bulk of the kids arrive in the fall.
What I am wondering is if YR gave us some breathing room from building new schools and the economic meltdown has slowed growth, then I would think we should have some funds (capital-bond vs operationing problem??) to redirect to teachers short term to compensate for the State's short term financial problems. Or since it takes up to seven years to build a school are we keeping to the building plan considering this year as just a temporary slow down in the country's fastest growth rate area.
People need to think through the actual logistical
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 13:10 — Falcdifferences between YR and traditional. Once you do you'll see why it's harder to balance class size on YR, especially in an under-capacity situation which is where a number of the YRs are right now. Trying to balance students across Tracks is a whole different ball game than across classrooms all on the same schedule.
The three new MYR ESs are at as little as about 50% capacity. Many of the existing MYRs are also under-capacity.
Logistically, say a school has 4 classrooms per grade K-5 and an average capacity of 25 students per class, which means 4 classes or 100 student per grade (x 6 grades gives you 24 classes) all on the same schedule on traditional or 5 classes or 125 students per grade (x 6 grades gives you 30 classes) all but two of which are on different schedules on YR.
Now, what if there are only 90 students per grade assigned to the school. Based on what I remember of the allocation formulas, given the 95% limit, I think that gives the school something like 21 teacher positions. How does the YR school cover 30 classes with 21 teachers? That's not enough to cover 4 tracks, so they cut a track forcing those families onto a different schedule, now they are down to 24 classes or 4 per grade just like traditional. Next is how to cover and balance 24 classes (4 per grade) with 21 teachers (3.5 per grade) over three tracks on different schedules vs where all classes are on the same schedule. In actuality, there will often be more students in one grade level than another, so they have to try to adjust for that too. Add in the fact that there is lumpiness (for lack of a better word) in desired tracks. There is a preference for Track 1 and Track 4. As you can see the balancing, while not easy on traditional, is even more complex on YR.
If I remember correctly from what I read, teacher salaries are largely state funded, so I'm not sure what the possibilities of redirecting funds would be. I know elsewhere (out of state) places are using/transfering fund balances around to cover current budget deficiets to keep teaching staff, but they entirely different governmental/funding methods. I'm not sure about redirect possibilities here.
Just my impression, but the more I've started following local and state issues here, it seems if something makes sense they don't do it that way here.
Just one more issue
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 07:48 — gunfamwith forced year round. If we were all on the same TRADITIONAL calendar at least they could easily balance class sizes so you didn't have such a discrepancy. If they are collapsing tracks, WHY are we in YR!!