School board member Keith Sutton is holding a "listening and learning tour."
Sutton, who was appointed to the board in August, said he's doing the tour to provide him "with an opportunity to listen to the issues and concerns of parents and community members, and learn more about ways in which he can effectively represent the constituents of District 4."
Here's the media advisory:
For immediate release
Topic: Wake County School Board District 4 Listening and Learning Tour
Time: 7 pm Wednesday, Nov. 4
Place: Hunter Elementary School
Wake County School Board District 4 Representative Keith Sutton has launched a "Listening and Learning Tour" across his district that covers Southeast and parts of Central Raleigh. Stops on the tour will be at various schools, churches, and other community events within District 4.
Appointed to the Wake County School Board in August, the tour will provide Sutton with an opportunity to continue to introduce himself to constituents and interested stakeholders in the district. More importantly, it will provide Sutton with an opportunity to listen to the issues and concerns of parents and community members, and learn more about ways in which he can effectively represent the constituents of District 4.
Sutton will speak tonight at 7pm at Hunter Elementary School for a Parent's Meeting. Sutton's first stop on the "Listening and Learning Tour" was on October 25 at Compassionate Missionary Baptist Church. Sutton plans to visit each of the 17 schools in District 4. Other scheduled stops on the tour include:
Saturday, November 7, 9 am - St. Matthew AME Church, Raleigh Ministerial Alliance (tentative; call to confirm)
Sunday, November 8, 4 pm - Martin St. Baptist Church, Raleigh/Apex NAACP
Wednesday, November 18, 12pm - Longview School
Comments
Spend per pupil including federal and state money
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 16:00 — stacy123Keung, I see the spending comparison of local $ but thought I saw somewhere that the Addl. dollar from the state and federal govt. were significantly higher than local spending -maybe 2x as much do you have total spend for all soruces for CMS vs. Wake County?
Thx
I'd have to dig around for
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 16:16 — KeungHui (author)I'd have to dig around for this year's data but you can find the 2008-09 stuff at www.ncreportcard.org
Thx
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 18:32 — stacy123Thx I'll look there.
Why Wait?
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 12:57 — srhudson06I hope this new board is as thoughtful and deliberate as the old one was in instituting changes like Early Release Wednesdays.
Great!
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 23:48 — SDR256I think this is a great step in the right direction! The new board members have long been talking about doing something similar. Its CRITICAL that as much of this that can be conversational becomes just that. It would be a shame, though, if everyone just went back into their "district" boxes. Eventually - and I know it may be a little late for the plan for this one, but eventually it would be great if they could do some of these across districts TOGETHER. They do - in essence - represent all of us. So, they should take the time to get to know concerned parents in the different districts. How about it Keith? Maybe you should invite the other members? Or, schedule a follow-on?
HMMMMM...sounds like Mr.
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 21:22 — dryeraseuserHMMMMM...sounds like Mr. Sutton might a little worried he will not keep that seat he was appointed to, when that seat's election time comes. After what happened yesterday...all the "status quo" need to be worried. Trying to come out and talk NOW is a little too late...for anyone currently sitting on the board....except Ron of course!
Good point...
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 00:27 — Bob_SconceI don't know that he's looking ahead 2 years, but.... He never ran for the seat--he was appointed. And, after this election, he probably realizes that he doesn't have the same sense of what people in his district want as the incoming members. It's hard to represent somebody if you don't know anything about them.
Actually, he's listening to
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 23:05 — RevHiDActually, he's listening to a lot of parents who are concerned that the new board will ruin district four. We know it will be hurt badly if the new board implements all it's promised changes without additional funding.
I think the new board members ought to do a listening and learning tour of district four if they want to keep their jobs. What happens there impacts the well being of the entire county.
Ruin how?
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 12:25 — stacy123How do you describe ruin? State your criteria/definition for "ruin" and 3 specific items you think will cause the failure? I presume that in public education the criteria would be based on meeting prevailing educational standards/requirements for the students. My understanding is as follows 1) Wake ships kids all over the county for ED diversity reasons -a big cause/reason for forced mandatory bussing /re-asignments, etc. and a big reason for the recent election results. WCPSS says they do not track individual students test results(Or will not release the results on an individual basis) so we cannot prove or disprove if these students are benefitting based on this criteria. Comparison vs. CMS seems like CMS has better test scores for these ED populations than Wake without forced bussing (not to mention mandatory year round, instability kids on separate tracks, etc.). The state sets a lot of minimum standards and all wake county schools follow a curriculum set on a county wide basis). So what exactly do you expect the changes the new board campaigned on to "ruin" your district? Please be specific and identify items that the new board members have mentioned and discussed that you believe will cause your district to be ruined.
"think the new board
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 08:18 — AngelaW"think the new board members ought to do a listening and learning tour"
really? the same way the old board has "listened" or do you mean HEARING the parents this time?
How are they going to ruin
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 23:37 — dryeraseuserHow are they going to ruin it?
Who will ruin it?
When will they ruin it?
What are they doing about education in their homes?
If they fear, then hopefully they will take a stand.....and CUT OUT this mess of fearing the NEW MEMBERS!
Get off the segregation trip, killing magnets trip...blah blah blah.....the NEW are for LISTENING to the PEOPLE.
Take responsibilty...most of the failures...are due to your own inability to take responsibility for your actions.
We have seen this in the elections...PEOPLE have realized that in the past they have been "fooled" along with not truly following the candidates and what they represent etc. In the past the citizens of Wake got what they asked for, because WE..including myself...voted kind of blindly.
HOWEVER, people are now aware and sick and tired adn actually focused in and listened and made their voices heard. When you do this...you can make anything happen.
If Dist. 4 is worried, and they probably dont' even know a thing of what all is going on and could care less...then that is what they will get.
"Ruin District 4?" How's
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 23:16 — woodstock"Ruin District 4?" How's that?
By creating high-poverty
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 23:40 — RevHiDBy creating high-poverty "neighborhood" schools.
But you already have high poverty neighborhoods!
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 12:44 — stacy123These people already live in high poverty neighborhoods! So by building a school and presuming funding is the same at this school and curriculum, etc. instead of a long bus ride you feel that is ruining your district? which is worse than the poverty itself and living in a poverty filled neighborhood. Seems like what will happen is they will gain time from not having a long bus ride education will stay the same, magnet options still will be there and if I read what the new shcool board mentions they will have some choice to go to a school (using your definition) in a higher income neighborhood. Your rational/reasoning seem very shallow IMHO
Where are you going to put
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 15:48 — RevHiDWhere are you going to put them if you're going to keep the magnet schools?
I have a keen awareness of the funding and volunteer time that affluent parents have the luxury to give. Our schools sink or swim on it. It is a LUXURY in a day and time where it takes two hardworking professionals to make ends meet for most families. Many of the things kids need to succeed, from supplies to a/v equipment, are the very things that it is up to the PTA to provide. If the majority of the parents have no money and no time, their schools will not be equal.
Attitude adjustment
Fri, 11/06/2009 - 11:58 — Bob_SconceIf parents at a school have decided "we're going to work and donate money to make this school the best it can be," that's their right. The district
has no right to move parental involvement around like it would a piece of equipment.
The district should ensure that each school has the equipment and staff needed to teach its students. If parents at some schools want to go beyond that, then more power to them.
Does that lead to "unequal" schools? Sure, of course. But, so what? Each school has gotten its due from the district.
In fact, that sort of engineering is ultimately destructive because the parents will eventually recognize "the district is going to force every school to be equal. So, if I donate time to my kid's school, the district will make up for it by taking something else away. Why bother?"
A situation in which some schools are 10s while others are 8s is prefereable to the situation where they're all 8s.
You're Spot On
Sun, 11/08/2009 - 23:42 — ApexterYou're spot on with this observation.
When my kids were reassigned to the 17th closest elementary school, we argued that by reassigning our node (which had, I think 16% F&R) they were importing more low income kids into a low income school, we were flat out told that one of the main reasons we were being reassigned was because they wanted involved parents.
I can tell you firsthand that the idea that we were being conscripted for service in a more distant school did not sit well with us. There was a huge amount of resentment from the parents who had worked hard volunteering in their child's school only to be told that their reward for this was to have their child be ripped away from their friends and forced to be the new kid. We didn't appreciate it being taken for granted that our volunteer efforts would continue even though the school system had made it much more difficult for the parents to participate. This change would have added about an extra 45 minutes to my afternoon commute each day because it would have required my picking my kids up from after school care at a more distant school.
Agree with you on the 10's
Sun, 11/08/2009 - 15:45 — carson79Agree with you on the 10's and the 8's as you describe but you're missing the point and what people are really worried about - that the system will become one of 10's and 2's.
So...
Sun, 11/08/2009 - 23:08 — Bob_SconceSo, I recognize that concern. I'm addressing a more narrow point, which is that it is wrong, both morally and practically, to assign students based on what their parents contribute to a school. If every school is naturally a 2, but some parents heroically manage to bring their kids' school up to a 10, then the correct response is to leave the population of the 10 school alone and do something about bringing up the 2s.
You are correct
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 01:16 — TrailerParkGirlOf course, the uncreative side feels that the only way to bring up the 2s is to move some of the people who made the 10s to the 2s as if it's a zero sum game. Also, there are those that think some schools will naturally be a 2 and some naturally an 8. I don't think they think like you seem to that every school would naturally be the same number, because they think certain groups are 2s and some are 8s. To me, it seems their fears come back to the elitism and defeatism.
Negative sum
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 10:27 — Bob_SconceTheir thinking is "we can move familes from a 10 school to a 2 school and create two 6 schools." In reality, it probably creates two 4 schools, for a net loss. Those in "resource allocation" mode never pick up on that dynamic.
Right again
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 13:42 — TrailerParkGirlI was going to put the part about creating two 6 six schools, but I think you are correct in reality there may be a net loss because some of the 10s will give up.
Heck, I'm guilty myself. I knew at our previous school, we had a high liklihood of being reassigned out (I was right), so I didn't invest much in that school. Now that we are somewhere where we are "needed" and at low-risk of reassignment, I've invested a lot more into this school. the motivation level when you are just passing through vs. here to stay are different.
Good point...
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 18:54 — Bob_SconceStability improves parental involvement. Parental involvment makes better schools.
Plug and play mentality
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 17:36 — SDR256The kind of thinking that would assume members of a '10' community could be moved to a '2' community and continue functioning are assuming that people are like plug and play components. In fact each community dynamic is unique and interactive. Why can't the solutions be sensitive to the dynamic into which they are being deployed? If a community of students and teachers have certain issues, like weakness in math teaching - then build up that part. If the student body has issues with parent involvement look for certain solutions being used in other environments, ones that have successfully engaged community members as surrogates even.
But of course this would assume that these communities could be brave enough to admit they weren't perfect and had unique needs.
The assumption that any characteristic can be homogenized in is very narrowminded. What is it that gets homogenized OUT at the same time?
Thanks Bob
Mon, 11/09/2009 - 00:28 — SDR256yes, morals. I'm glad someone still talks about those.
Use the gas money
Fri, 11/06/2009 - 00:28 — MomknowsbestThe gas money saved from all that busing can be allocated to "poor" schools to for supplies which WCPSS should provide anyway.
?? By "them" do you mean
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 17:32 — JSBinNC??
By "them" do you mean the ED kids from district 4 that are bussed to far flung regions of the county?
Maybe we should let "them" IN to the freaking magnet schools. Instead of letting them ON to a bus. Maybe magnet schools should ONLY have base populations that are ED - everyone else - straight up lottery.
Exactly right.
Fri, 11/06/2009 - 00:30 — MomknowsbestLottery for magnets should not be engineered nor discriminating! AG Basics magnets should be based on academic abilities.
All of you might be
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 08:29 — sstarksAll of you might be interested in reading the article on the front page of today's Charlotte Observer: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/topstories/story/1038139.html
Headlines read:
SCORES UP FOR BLACK, POOR TEENS IN CMS
In a striking change from 2004, those students now outperform counterparts in Wake, across N.C
John Dornan, executive
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 08:30 — AngelaWJohn Dornan, executive director of the Raleigh-based advocacy group Public Schools of North Carolina, knew about that report. But he said Wednesday he was shocked to hear that CMS, long held up as a horror story of what could happen if Raleigh were to let schools resegregate, was outperforming Wake on many measures.
"Wow," he said, when told about the report-card results. "Could it very well be that (CMS efforts) are paying dividends? It's hard to think of another explanation."
Remember that the
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 08:45 — RevHiDRemember that the kindergarten children that entered CMS after resegregation are not even in high school. We have yet to see true results.
Also remember that CMS spends MORE on transportation, and more per pupil than wake. The higher per pupil spending at CMS may just as well be the reason their students are showing some gains... but I don't hear anybody advocating spending more.
"Remember that the
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 10:28 — CaryCurmudgeon"Remember that the kindergarten children that entered CMS after
resegregation are not even in high school. We have yet to see true
results."
Funny, but status-quo supporters including yourself have spent months pointing to CMS and proof that neighborhood schools will fail. Now that you don't like the numbers, you say they do not reflect "true results."
Maybe we should look at Guilford County instead? :)
More Per Student in CMS
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 10:02 — MamaLynnI keep hearing people using this as an excuse about why CMS is performing better than Wake. Correct me if I'm wrong, but CMS has 50% F&R compared to 25% F&R in Wake County. The Federal goverment gives more money to low-income children through the Title I program and other grants don't they? I would love to see someone's explanation on this, because it's not what you are implying it is!
You are correct
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 14:20 — TrailerParkGirlI've brought that point up numerous times and status quo folks just continue to ignore it and repeat the same whine and excuses.
If you go to schooldatadirect.org, you can do a comparison of up to five districts (has to be within same state). One stat they show is student need cost adjusted spending.
http://www.schooldatadirect.org/
Economically Disadvantaged Students: 1.35 times
Special Education Students: 2.1 times
English Language Learners: 1.2 times
And, as I've said before,
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 12:36 — shearertwAnd, as I've said before, Raleigh (including surrounding areas) has the 2nd most educated population in the entire country. 2nd only to Seattle, Wa. Greater that 50% of Raleigh residents >25yrs old have a BS degree or greater. Clearly, Raleigh (and Wake Co.) parents place a high level of importance on education. Couple that with a low F&R population (half that of CMS) and you still can't blow them out of the water? Something is terribly wrong for WCPSS to even be mentioned in the same breath as CMS.
You couldn't be more wrong "Rev".........
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 09:06 — J8307200We are from Charlotte-Mecklenburg and my current ninth grader entered school in 2000. This is the year that every child was guaranteed a seat in the school closest to their home. This is also the year that schools that had a higher number of children from poverty were given TWICE...yes you read that correctly...TWICE the funding of other schools. With that money they funded progrms that directly addressed the special need these kids have. That money came from all the other schools that did not get funding for PE Equipment, Playground Equipment, computers, or even PAPER. Our childrens walking track was built with PTA funds that was saved over three years. (Heck of a lot of wrapping paper sold) Our kids and our school went without. It was well worth it to see the progress that the children have made who are NOW in high school!! We made a difference...so unless you were there and experienced it first hand I suggest you not address the issues in Charlotte which you are so keenly ignorant of!
I've actually heard from
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 15:51 — RevHiDI've actually heard from many parents who fled Charlotte because they had the opposite experience too.
You sure hear a lot of
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 16:09 — woodstockYou sure hear a lot of things.
Actually, CMS's EOG scores
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 09:00 — sstarksActually, CMS's EOG scores are higher than Wake's for poor and minority kids as well--have been climbing steadily ever since busing ended. Additionally, busing ended in 2002, 7 years ago. So kids who are now juniors were in 4th grade then, freshman were only in 2nd grade. Most of their education was under the new assignment plan. Kids who graduated in 2004 with the lower scores spent their entire schooling under busing.
And those scores had a long
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 09:39 — RevHiDAnd those scores had a long way to go.
Consider this information from the article as well:
"But an Observer investigation found that two schools that saw huge gains on pass rates also saw participation in those required classes plunge. Gorman has acknowledged that having weak students postpone those classes for a full year could create a temporary surge in scores."
One of the main problems illustrated in the SAS report was that children are not taking Algebra one in 8th grade, limiting their career choices. Low performing kids in Charlotte have just started taking the tests later, meaning they are better prepared for a test score, but they are also losing out on career options. Another reason that a test score isn't everything!
A one-year gain when many were held back from taking advanced courses does not constitute a good reason to immediately re-segregate Wake schools by wealth.
Bussing ened in 2000.
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 09:07 — J8307200We were there, it ended in 2000.
"CMS abolished income-based
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 09:11 — woodstock"CMS abolished income-based assignments in 2002 after a 2001 court ruling that ended busing."
http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=5312
That may have been the time
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 09:14 — J8307200That may have been the time when it became "official"....but I lived through the reassignment nightmares and I know that the year 2000 was when every child was guaranteed a seat in the school closest to home.
Initially the plan was
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 09:36 — sstarksInitially the plan was supposed to start with the 2000-2001 school year, but at the last minute the school board pulled the plug on that while an appeal of the end of busing order was considered . Millions of dollars were lost when the plan was scrapped at the last minute. In April of 2002 the Supreme Court declined to hear the appeal. The new assignment plan was then implemented for the coming school year.
There was some reassignment in 2000, as a new high school--Waddell--was
opening and had to be filled. Much of the assignment angst that year
was over the school board's attempt to continue its busing policies
while filling this poorly placed school. I know because my
neighborhood was slated to be moved from our high school (3 miles away)
to another high school 8 miles away. This nonsense ended with the implementation of the 2002 plan.
Are you privy to a new
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 08:16 — woodstockAre you privy to a new student assignment policy that the rest of us are unaware of?
You can't escape the fact
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 09:14 — RevHiDYou can't escape the fact that south and east Raleigh will see a rise in high-poverty schools if everybody is sent back to their "neighborhood."
Two things: 1. You assume
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 10:52 — woodstockTwo things:
1. You assume that schools with an elevated level of low-income students cannot succeed. CMS and Guilford -- and many places across the country -- are proving otherwise. (You also ignore the fact that the current system is not succeeding with low-income students and change is needed.)
2. My guess is that application/magnet schools will still exist and you and others who wish to change the dynamics of a school that does not meet your desired socioeconomic dynamics may apply and help change that dynamic to your satisfaction. Personally, I think making sure everyone has the right resources to meet their academic needs is more important than trying to achieve some fictitious proper level of diversity.
What schools in Guilford are
Sun, 11/08/2009 - 15:40 — carson79What schools in Guilford are you referring to?
First hand look
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 20:58 — louiselee44I just might attend one of these "listen and learn" sessions.
Questions
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 19:58 — woodstockHas Sutton talked to or reached out to any of the new school board members? Did he attenpt to "listen and learn" from any of them about their positions before spouting off at the Friends of Diversity fiasco or the recent event at the Martin Street Baptist Church hosted by Rev. Barber?