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The WakeEd blog is devoted to discussing and answering questions about the major issues facing the Wake County school system. How much will the new Democratic majority on the school board do to undo the changes made by Republicans since 2009? How will the new choice-based assignment system work now that the socioeconomic diversity policy has been eliminated? How will Superintendent Tony Tata lead the state's largest district through more budget cuts and possible layoffs? How will the board respond to growth and the school construction program?

WakeEd is maintained by The News & Observer's Wake schools reporter, T. Keung Hui. While Keung posts information and analysis on the issues, keep us posted on your suggestions, questions, tips and what you're doing to cope with the changes in Wake's schools.

John Tedesco wants Wake to do teacher effectiveness study using EVAAS

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Wake County school board member John Tedesco wants the school district to do its own teacher effectiveness report following the much-discussed study done recently in Los Angeles.

As noted in today's Triangle Politics column, Tedesco is hailing the findings in the study of Los Angeles Unified School District teachers that was reported Sunday in the Los Angeles Times. The newspaper's analysis of the data is challenging some popular conceptions about teacher effectiveness.

"It's everything we're saying," Tedesco said "We have to get the best teachers in front of the kids. The most highly certified teachers are not necessarily the most effective teachers. We need to get the right teachers in front of the kids instead of shuffling kids around."

Among the newspaper's findings were that the best teachers were not concentrated in schools in the most affluent neighborhoods and the weakest instructors weren't bunched in poor areas. The newspaper also found that experience, education and training didn't have much bearing on whether teachers improved student performance.

A Wake study could back or weaken arguments that eliminating the diversity policy will cause more good teachers to flee from high-poverty schools.

Wake has its own system of measuring teachers called the Effectiveness Index. But Tedesco doesn't trust the Effectiveness Index because it makes statistical adjustments based on the expectation that low-income students won't do as well as more affluent classmates.

Tedesco wants Wake to do an analysis using the SAS EVAAS program to see if there are similar patterns here to what was found in Los Angeles. But Tedesco said he doesn't want to publicly release the names and individual ratings of teachers.

The LA Times is still planning on releasing online later this month the results for thousands of individual teachers despite a boycott threat from the Los Angeles teachers union.

In addition to teacher unions, the LA Times study has been criticized by liberal publications and advocacy groups.

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AP classes

Can't handle the tiny posts so I'm starting the AP thread over again. One of the things that no one has brought up in the AP discussion is how the culture of the school plays into AP offerings. At Apex (according to a friend whose kids go there anyway), only kids with an A in honors courses are recommended for AP classes. So only students with an A in sophomore honors English would be recommended for AP English their junior year. Though parents can override this, many are reluctant to do so because the message from the school is that only the very best students should take AP courses. This also contributes to fewer kids taking multiple AP classes as the expectation of the students and school is that kids will only take APs in their best subjects and should concentrate on a just a few such classes. Thus, fewer AP sections are offered and can even lead to AP classes being cut for lack of interest as we saw at Apex last year. 

At other high schools (Enloe for instance) students with As and Bs are recommended for AP and some parents will overrule even if their kids have a C. The expectation among students (and administration) is that kids will take multiple APs every year and the natural competition among top students takes over quickly. At Enloe, as the statistics posted on this blog show, students take many APs every year and there are subject areas where I'm sure they have more AP sections offered than honors. The average load for the higher performing students is 2 APs sophomore year, 4 junior year and 3-4 senior year. Many kids would never take that many APs at another school in part because the culture of the school doesn't lead them to expect that they should. Kids who aspire to be in the 10 or 15 percent of the class at Enloe, though, really have no choice but to take (and do well) in at least 9 APs. There is no reason that other schools can't work to create a similar atmosphere. Green Hope does (look at all their AP offerings), but obviously other schools don't.

Good insights ... by getting

Good insights ... by getting the information out there, hopefully all parents / schools will learn and push for more.

  Flawed

 

Flawed Education
 
Chinese colleges graduate many times the number of engineers and scientists that American universities produce, but such statistics are misleading. To meet the quotas for graduates set by Beijing, academic programs dilute their standards. They further inflate their count by counting as engineering students those studying to become mechanics or industrial technicians. The result, according to a pioneering study led by Duke University professors Gary Gereffi and Vivek Wadhwa, is that many of these graduates fall far short of the standards imposed by U.S. colleges and universities. When they graduate, many are unable to find work in their professions.

source?

User,  where did you find this? I'd like to read it. One of the things I worry about is U.S. kids falling behind other nations and this could be suggesting otherwise.

source

...http://www.kiplinger.com/businessresource/forecast/archive/seven-flaws-in-chinas-growth-model.html

...http://www.wadhwa.com/research_gettingthenumbers.html

Personally, I don't might if we think others are better than they are if it gets us going like the Russians pushing US science education by launching Sputnik.

Los Angeles unveils costliest school in the nation

The K-12 complex, which cost $578 million, will house 4,200 students

LOS ANGELES — Next month's opening of the Robert F. Kennedy Community Schools will be auspicious for a reason other than its both storied and infamous history as the former Ambassador Hotel, where the Democratic presidential contender was assassinated in 1968.

With an eye-popping price tag of $578 million, it will mark the inauguration of the nation's most expensive public school ever.

The K-12 complex to house 4,200 students has raised eyebrows across the country as the creme de la creme of "Taj Mahal" schools, $100 million-plus campuses boasting both architectural panache and deluxe amenities.

"There's no more of the old, windowless cinderblock schools of the '70s where kids felt, 'Oh, back to jail,'" said Joe Agron, editor-in-chief of American School & University, a school construction journal. "Districts want a showpiece for the community, a really impressive environment for learning."

Not everyone is similarly enthusiastic.

"New buildings are nice, but when they're run by the same people who've given us a 50 percent dropout rate, they're a big waste of taxpayer money," said Ben Austin, executive director of Parent Revolution who sits on the California Board of Education. "Parents aren't fooled."

At RFK, the features include fine art murals and a marble memorial depicting the complex's namesake, a manicured public park, a state-of-the-art swimming pool and preservation of pieces of the original hotel.

Partly by circumstance and partly by design, the Los Angeles Unified School District has emerged as the mogul of Taj Mahals.

The RFK complex follows on the heels of two other LA schools among the nation's costliest — the $377 million Edward R. Roybal Learning Center, which opened in 2008, and the $232 million Visual and Performing Arts High School that debuted in 2009.

The pricey schools have come during a sensitive period for the nation's second-largest school system: Nearly 3,000 teachers have been laid off over the past two years, the academic year and programs have been slashed. The district also faces a $640 million shortfall and some schools persistently rank among the nation's lowest performing.

Los Angeles is not alone, however, in building big. Some of the most expensive schools are found in low-performing districts — New York City has a $235 million campus; New Brunswick, N.J., opened a $185 million high school in January.

Nationwide, dozens of schools have surpassed $100 million with amenities including atriums, orchestra-pit auditoriums, food courts, even bamboo nooks. The extravagance has led some to wonder where the line should be drawn and whether more money should be spent on teachers.

"Architects and builders love this stuff, but there's a little bit of a lack of discipline here," said Mary Filardo, executive director of 21st Century School Fund in Washington, D.C., which promotes urban school construction.

Some experts say it's not all flourish and that children learn better in more pleasant surroundings.

Many schools incorporate large windows to let in natural light and install energy-saving equipment, spending more upfront for reduced bills later. Cafeterias are getting fancier, seeking to retain students who venture off campus. Wireless Internet and other high-tech installations have become standard.

Some pricey projects have had political fallout.

After a firestorm over the $197.5 million Newton North High School in Massachusetts, Mayor David Cohen chose not to seek re-election and state Treasurer Timothy Cahill reined in school construction spending.

Now to get state funds for a new school, districts must choose among three designs costing $49 million to $64 million. "We had to bring some sense to this process," Cahill said.

In Los Angeles, officials say the new schools were planned long before the economic pinch and are funded by $20 billion in voter-approved bonds that do not affect the educational budget.

Still, even LA Unified Superintendent Ramon Cortines derided some of the extravagance, noting that donations should have been sought to fund the RFK project's talking benches commemorating the site's history.

Connie Rice, member of the district's School Bond Oversight Committee, noted the megaschools are only three of 131 that the district is building to alleviate overcrowding. RFK "is an amazing facility," she said. "Is it a lot of money? Yes. We didn't like it, but they got it done."

Construction costs at LA Unified are the second-highest in the nation — something the district blames on skyrocketing material and land prices, rigorous seismic codes and unionized labor.

James Sohn, the district's chief facilities executive, said the megaschools were built when global raw material shortages caused costs to skyrocket to an average of $600 per square foot in 2006 and 2007 — triple the price from 2002. Costs have since eased to $350 per square foot.

On top of that, each project had its own cost drivers.

After buildings were demolished at the site of the 2,400-student Roybal school, contaminated soil, a methane gas field and an earthquake fault were discovered. A gas mitigation system cost $17 million.

Over 20 years, the project grew to encompass a dance studio with cushioned maple floors, a modern kitchen with a restaurant-quality pizza oven, a 10-acre park and teacher planning rooms between classrooms.

The 1,700-student arts school was designed as a landmark, with a stainless steel, postmodernistic tower encircled by a rollercoaster-like swirl, while the RFK site involved 15 years of litigation with historic preservationists and Donald Trump, who wanted to build the world's tallest building there. The wrangling cost $9 million.

Methane mitigation cost $33 million and the district paid another $15 million preserving historic features, including a wall of the famed Cocoanut Grove nightclub and turning the Paul Williams-designed coffee shop into a faculty lounge.

Sohn said LA Unified has reached the end of its Taj Mahal building spree. "These are definitely the exceptions," he said. "We don't anticipate schools costing hundreds of millions of dollars in the future."

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38807154/ns/us_news-life/

Turning Children Into Data A

Turning Children Into Data

A Skeptic's Guide to Assessment Programs

Programs with generic-sounding names that offer techniques for measuring (and raising) student achievement have been sprouting like fungi in a rainforest: “Learning-Focused Schools,” “Curriculum-Based Measurements,” “Professional Learning Communities,” and many others whose names include “data,” “progress,” or “RTI.” Perhaps you’ve seen their ads in periodicals like this one. Perhaps you’ve pondered the fact that they can afford these ads, presumably because of how much money they’ve already collected from struggling school districts.

When I’m asked about one of these programs, I have to confess that I just can’t keep up with every new stall that opens in this bazaar—and the same is true of the neighboring marketplace that’s packed with discipline and classroom-management programs. (Hint: Here, extreme skepticism is warranted whenever the name includes the word “behavior.”) Still, it is possible to sketch some criteria for judging any given program—preferably before someone requests a purchase order.

 

So let’s imagine that your community is buzzing about something called ABA: “Achievement-Based Assessment”—or, perhaps, “Assessment-Based Achievement”—whose website boasts of “monitoring and improving each student’s learning with proven data-focused strategies.”

Worth a try? Well, we certainly can’t decide on the basis of how ABA markets itself. Just about any descriptor that might seem appealing, even progressive, has been co-opted by now: Every outfit claims to help teachers “collaborate” in order to focus on the “learning” (rather than just the teaching) as they look at “authentic” outcomes and “differentiate” the instruction with a “developmental” approach that emphasizes “critical (or higher-order) thinking” skills—in order to prepare your students for (drumroll) the “21st century.”

Obviously, we’re going to have to look a little deeper and ask a few pointed questions.

1. What is its basic conception of assessment? To get a sense of how well things are going and where help is needed, we ought to focus on the actual learning that students do over a period of time—ideally, deep learning that consists of more than practicing skills and memorizing facts. If you agree, then you’d be very skeptical about a program that relies on discrete, contrived, testlike assessments. You’d object to any procedure that seems mechanical, in which standardized protocols like rubrics supplant teachers’ professional judgments based on personal interaction with their students. And the only thing worse than “benchmark” tests (tests in between the tests) would be computerized monitoring tools, which the reading expert Richard Allington has succinctly characterized as “idiotic.”

2. What is its goal? Ask not only what the program does but why it exists. Lots of talk about “student achievement”—as opposed to, say, “students’ achievements”—suggests that the program’s raison d’être is not to help kids understand ideas and become thoughtful questioners, but merely to raise their scores on standardized tests. (Elsewhere, I’ve reviewed evidence showing not only that these tests are completely inadequate for assessing important intellectual proficiencies, but also that high scores are actually correlated with a superficial approach to learning.) Obviously, anyone who harbors doubts about the validity or value of standardized tests wouldn’t want to have anything to do with a program that’s designed mostly with them in mind.

3. Does it reduce everything to numbers? If all the earnest talk about “data” (in the context of educating children) doesn’t make you at least a little bit uneasy, it’s time to recharge your crap detector. Most assessment systems are based on an outdated behaviorist model that assumes nearly everything can—and should—be quantified. But the more educators allow themselves to be turned into accountants, the more trivial their teaching becomes and the more their assessments miss.

That’s why I was heartened recently to receive a note describing how some teachers on a Midwestern high school’s improvement team took a long, hard look at the Professional Learning Communities model and said no thanks. They were put off by its designers’ frank admiration of for-profit corporations as well as its “misguided premise that every subject area can be broken down into core concepts which then have to be quantified.” The teachers understood that learning doesn’t have to be measured in order to be assessed. And they feared that “true learning and engagement”—along with a commitment to be “responsive to students’ needs [and] lives”—might be lost.

The more educators allow themselves to be turned into accountants, the more trivial their teaching becomes and the more their assessments miss.
 
 

These teachers ultimately decided to reject the technocratic PLC approach in favor of an alternative they designed themselves. It focused on teachers’ personal “connection[s] with our subject area” as the basis for helping students think “like mathematicians or historians or writers or scientists, instead of drilling them in the vocabulary of those subject areas or breaking down the skills.” In a word, the teachers put kids before data.

Of course, this powerful exercise in professional development never would have happened if the school administration had simply imposed PLCs (or a similar program) on the teachers, treating them like technicians who merely carry out orders. Which brings us to …

4. Is it about “doing to” or “working with”? Steer clear of any program whose curriculum or assessments are so prescriptive and prefabricated that teachers lack any real autonomy. By now, we ought to know that systems intended to be “teacher proof” are not only disrespectful but chimerical: They are the perpetual-motion machines of education. One sure sign of disrespect is the use of incentives or sanctions to make teachers get with the program, including compensation that hinges on compliance or on some measure of student achievement.

Likewise, you’d want to make sure that students’ autonomy is respected, since kids should have a lot to say about their assessment. If they feel controlled, even a cleverly designed program is unlikely to have a constructive effect. Again, any use of carrots and sticks should set off alarms. As Jerome Bruner once said, we want to create an environment where students can “experience success and failure not as reward and punishment but as information.” That pretty much rules out grades or similar ratings.

Steer clear of any program whose curriculum or assessments are so prescriptive and prefabricated that teachers lack any real autonomy.
 
 

5. Is its priority to support kids’ interest? In attempting to track and boost achievement, do we damage what’s most critical to long-term quality of learning: students’ desire to learn? It’s disturbing if a program is so preoccupied with data and narrowly defined skills that it doesn’t even bother to talk about this issue. More important, look at the real-world effects: Once a school adopts the program, are kids more excited about what they’re doing—or has learning been made to feel like drudgery?

6. Does it avoid excessive assessment? Distilling a large body of research, psychologists Martin Maehr and the late Carol Midgley reminded us that “an overemphasis on assessment can actually undermine the pursuit of excellence.” That’s true even with reasonably good assessments, let alone with those that are standardized. The more that students are led to focus on how well they’re doing, the less engaged they tend to become with what they’re doing. Instead of stuff they want to figure out, the curriculum just becomes stuff at which they’re required to get better. A school that’s all about achievement and performance is a school that’s not really about discovery and understanding.


Even intelligent educators can be remarkably credulous, nodding agreeably at descriptions of programs that ought to elicit fury or laughter, avidly copying down hollow phrases from a consultant’s PowerPoint presentation, awed by anything that’s borrowed from the business world or involves digital technology.

Many companies and consultants thrive on this credulity, and also on teachers’ isolation, fatalism, and fear (of demands by clueless officials to raise test scores at any cost). With a good dose of critical thinking and courage, a willingness to say, “This is bad for kids, and we won’t have any part of it,” we could drive these outfits out of business—and begin to take back our schools.

Thanks!

Interesting food for thought.

Easy Solution Much As In Corporations

Have the parents review the teachers end of each school year.  We are the ones who really see the effectiveness or strengths of the teachers,  And, we can certainly tell you where they failed our children.  An unbiased straighforward survey - prepared by non school non county affiliations (maybe like the PTA).  You'd get more useful information on what's working and not, and tie an honest bonus to that review. 

Disagree...

Mrs. Sconce and I spend a fair bit of time with our kids after school, going over homework, making sure they're reading the requisite 30 minutes a day, etc...  Plus, she's involved in the school and sees what's going on in the classroom every day.

Even with all that, we still only have a very rough understanding of how good the teachers are -- we think that we've been able to pick out the very bad ones (because we have to re-teach the material ourselves) and the very good ones (because our child wants to go out of the way to do more just to please that teacher).  But, that's very rough and, frankly, parents can be petty and make judgments based on personalities.

If a value-add study can be shown to have predictive power -- i.e. it lets you say "we expect these 5 teachers to generate big improvements and these other 5 to actually lose ground," and have that prediction turn out to be RIGHT -- then, that has a lot more power than just a random survey of what parents think.

I agree

I agree with you Bob. A parent's perspective of a teacher is much too colored by their own child's experience which may or may not be indicative of the teacher's effectiveness with all the children in the classroom. Not to mention, many parents really don't have much idea at all what's happening at school (especially once the child gets out of elementary school).

Have you noticed

Have you noticed that anything snordone posts, the next thing you hear is Tedesco saying it? Go check out the posts on the first LATimes article Kueng set up a few days ago. snordone is not Tedesco, but obviously there's a connection.

education reform

 I work with a group of people who are commited to equal opportunity for all kids in Wake and I sit on the ED task force as the Hill St Homework Haven's liaison to the WCPSS. My history - I am the former chair of Kevin Hill's BAC, I rotated off last year and  I am now on the community relations committee as a district 3 rep.

Come to the ED task force meeting on Thursday, you will see we all have similar concerns and spend a lot of time discussing the barriers to academic achievement - the EI is a well recognized barrier. John Tedesco is the chair of the task force. If you come to the task force meeting I'd be more than happy to talk.

First, this board will not

First, this board will not go down.  Remember, they were voted in and there are people who are, I am sure, mobilizing to make this whole thing have at least a half a chance.  That happened based on the Democratic Process and that is why this will (the board initiatives) move forward.

Next, this invasion from this accreditation committe may not be the only "blind side."  Have you ever thought that one day this whole thing goes before the Supreme Court?  What if they vote that this was a democratic Process and the vote stands?  Do you really think they would say that anyone's Civil Rights were violated?

As mentioned, we have made this whole NBPTS crap a measure of a good teacher.  Keung, I am going to email you several reports that have been written by various people.  Some left, some right and some not affiliated.  I think we needs to start looking at this data.  My guess is that NBPTS may be on it's way out.  Although I will miss the pay I will welcome us awakeing to the fact that this is an extremely ineffective way to judge teachers (the people making the decision NEVER meeting or observing these teachers sans a view of a 20 minute video). 

I have an email in to a professor that assiated in the Vanderbilt study of Ft Bragg Schools circa 2005 that showed NO GAP in students.  Nationally normed tests.  And if you want to talk about diversity, there is little that can hold a candle to this level of diversity.....kids from all walks of life, different parts of the country.....moving every 2 to 3 years.

  Q. Can my children

 

Q. Can my children attend Fort Bragg Schools if we live off post?
  A. Unfortunately, they are not able to attend Fort Bragg Schools. You must live on Fort Bragg to attend Fort Bragg Schools.
Q. Is there a waiver I can get so my children can attend Fort Bragg Schools?
  A. No, unless you live in federal quarters, or are in possession of a 90 day housing letter, your child is not eligible to attend Fort Bragg Schools.

Here's a link to the eligibility requirements for attending Ft. Bragg schools:

http://www.am.dodea.edu/bragg/New-CSO/Parent_Info/DDESS_Guidelines_for_Eligibility.htm

I'm not sure what any of the

I'm not sure what any of the above had to do with anything.  Some major facts:  these are a widely diverse group of students.  They are from high ranking to lower ranking officers to senior and junior enlisted people.  Many do not have both parents in the home because one (or both) are deployed or assigned somewhere else for extended periods.  They are black, hispanic, white, foreign, etc etc.  So why does Ft Bragg work?  Carolyn Breda was one of the researchers on the paper about the LACK OF a gap between these kids in 2005 or so.

I was born and raised in Fayetteville.  I was also navy for over 10 years.  If a teacher has a problem with a student they can call home.  In a regular educational environment this would be the end. If this call made no difference then things would just be endured.  When I did my student teaching I was in Va Beach, still around the navy community.  I made one call home.....if that did not work I called the parent's commanding officer.  The sailor would be called in and directed to fix the problem or face disciplanry action....end of story.  Ft Bragg does the same thing.

That brings up a very

That brings up a very interesting article I read about 7-8 years ago. It might have been a report on CBS too, but I can't remenber the source.

The subject however was that there were two types of high poverty schools that bucked the tendency to have low achievers. One of those was schools on military bases, and the other was poor parochial schools. These schools tend to perform much better than high poverty public schools. Not surprisingly, the reason was discipline in the classroom. Classroom disruptions were not tolerated by both teachers AND parents. And failure in the classroom was generally not tolerated by both teachers AND parents.

All of this dialogue about

All of this dialogue about educating children in high poverty schools and it comes down to parent involvement and classroom discipline.  I hope someone from the school board read your post.  Not discipline in a punitive way either.  Maintaining control of the class, enabling students to learn with a limited amount of distraction.

Thanks for pointing that out.  I hope it gets to the right people.

parent empowerment

Many of the families in our low resource communities first need to be empowered to navigate the system before they can become engaged. There are big physical barriers - no transportation - and emotional barriers - how to negotiate with authority figures. WCPSS needs a stronger, ongoing presence in our low resource communities, and must start valuing all families equally.

Second, multiple studies have show that when children are placed in rigorous classes behavior problems decrease (suspensions decreased by significant numbers). Right now we don't use data to place kids, we place poor "at risk" minority kids in remedial classes without looking at their academic achievement. The get bored, frustrated, and get disruptive. We suspend thousands of kids without anywhere for them to go.

When kids are challenged and engaged they don't act out. There has been a lot of discussion about math placement recently, the number of kids who are tracked low is staggering and is contributing to our behavior problems in our schools.

I couldn't agree with you

I couldn't agree with you more.  It's about time Wake County addressed the problem with some understanding of the barriers that make it difficult for these students.  Hopefully you will recognize that there are employees in the school system that are trained in case management skills and have the capacity to help the families navigate the numerous systems successfully.

I understand that some students become bored and need a challenge.  There are also students who misbehave because they cannot comprehend what is being taught.  Being too embarrassed to admit that they can't keep up with the curriculum, misbehavior in class becomes a more acceptable way of avoiding feelings of inadequacy.

I wish you well in developing and implementing this initiative. Before I was forced to resign, I successfully worked with this population by initially developing a relationship based on mutual respect and recognizing  barriers but helping students learn strategies for dealing with their personal challenges as well as their environmental difficulties.   

When kids are challenged and

When kids are challenged and engaged they don't act out. There has been a lot of discussion about math placement recently, the number of kids who are tracked low is staggering and is contributing to our behavior problems in our schools.

 

Reminder that the problems you mention will take a generation to fix.  As I mentioned before, the bored misbehaving kids in my wife's HS classes are the product of poor ES and MS education where the kids were tracked lower and lower and by HS are functionally literate.  Those kids are "handicapped" now and giving them challenging classes tomorrow won't work ... it has to start in ES so change may not be seen for 6 years.

not at all true user

Two models to look at  - the New Schools Project high schools and the KIPP schools. When schools are dedicated to educating children they do it despite the preconceived ideas. For sure it gets harder after 5th grade, but it can be done.

Second, these kids are NOT handicapped. Here is the affliction that many policy 6200 suffer from - lack of understanding of children in poverty, and a cultural belief that they can't be educated. We suck the life out of them in the public schools - ever used the Great Leaps notebooks that central office says you are supposed to use to help struggling readers? Kids tune out within 2 minutes. But take a kid into the library, let them choose their own book and read with them and let them act out the characters and they are engaged. Ever taught a 5th grader his multiplication tables by letting him rap it? They learn. The problem is not the kids, it is the adults in the room.

Two models to look at  -

Two models to look at  - the New Schools Project high schools and the KIPP schools

 
An education professor from Guilford College? already went through this on the blog a year ago citing that KIPP is an effective program in small doses but can not be scaled to all of Wake.  I think of KIPP like Early College where a select group of kids who are willing to wear uniforms, stay for after school tutoring until 5pm, go to school on Saturdays and have parents willing to sign a contract to ensure all that happens is enrolled.   Those requirements will limit the number of kids reached.
 
 
Second, these kids are NOT handicapped. Here is the affliction that many policy 6200 suffer from - lack of understanding of children in poverty, and a cultural belief that they can't be educated. 
 
I never thought the diversity policy was responsible for the racial genocide we see.  As Ron would say, we never intended bad education to happen to these kids.  We just did not work hard to make sure good education did happen.   We have already seen that good teachers who were not racists have for years not recommended qualified poor minority kids for advanced math thus limiting their ability to enter college.  Those teachers would continue that exclusion whether the diversity policy was in place or not.  We have seen where we limit AP classes in low income / minority schools which also limits entering college.   How many other things do we do that have nothing to do with a diversity policy that are handicapping these kids?
 
 
We suck the life out of them in the public schools - ever used the Great Leaps notebooks that central office says you are supposed to use to help struggling readers? Kids tune out within 2 minutes. But take a kid into the library, let them choose their own book and read with them and let them act out the characters and they are engaged. Ever taught a 5th grader his multiplication tables by letting him rap it? They learn. The problem is not the kids, it is the adults in the room.
 
 
I am not sure of your experience but my wife's 9th grade low income / minority classes of >30 kids without a TA are not ones where the teacher can sit and read to the kids in the library while they act out their favorite characters.  You must only have ES kids.   The handicap I am talking about includes 18 and 19 year olds stuck in 9th grade until they age out because they can not pass the EOC.  These kids are functionally iterate.   They have been guided by the system to be functionally iterate since ES.

agree and disagree

I have worked with HS dropouts and ES kids - ESL and ED that can not read and are in 4th-6th grade. If we focus early we gain more ground, but to give up on a child at any age is wrong.

As for the diversity policy, it is not the cause of the problem, but the philosophical belief behind it is. These kids are not toxic to our schools, we are toxic to them. We don't understand them, we don't value them, we don't support them. While many don't think that KIPP and other models are scalable, I do. All it will take is a district full of schools that have 100% effective teachers who all believe that every child can succeed.

I am ok with that ..

I am ok with that .. optimism is a good thing ...

Still something to pursue

[...] KIPP is an effective program in small doses but can not be scaled to all of Wake.  I think of KIPP like Early College where a select group of kids who are willing to wear uniforms, stay for after school tutoring until 5pm, go to school on Saturdays and have parents willing to sign a contract to ensure all that happens is enrolled.   Those requirements will limit the number of kids reached.

That may be, but all that means is that WCPSS also needs to do other things.  We shouldn't ignore KIPP just because it isn't a complete solution to WCPSS' issues with ED performance.  If a KIPP program targets a subset of students and, in doing so, gets the ED graduation rate up from 57% (or whatever the most recent number is) to, say, 67%, then that'd be a huge improvement.

Unfortunately, I believe you're right about the 18- and 19- year olds.  If we want to improve graduation rates, the place to do so is in elementary school.  Unfortunately, that means waiting a minimum of 7 years to see the end results.

Yes ,,,,Maybe it will take a

Yes ,,,,Maybe it will take a series of small programs to address the whole problem.  Given that the majority has not started any planning or funding for KIPP, it will be a number of years until we see it ....

It's all good

Afterall, they were distributed around to share the load - mission accomplished - so it's all good. (Huge sarcasm font)

Seriously, how do you reconcile the contradictions between the "distribute them around to share the load based on generalizations" mentality of the "diversity" policy and the "actually fix underlying issues" mentality of some you refer to "anti-diversity" (who aren't actually anti-diversity, but rather disagree that basing things on SES generalizations constitutes diversity)?

Hey, I would like to eat

Hey, I would like to eat steak every night but I can not afford it so I eat leftovers for stay within my budget ... I would love a super school for every child ... WCPSS does not have the money to do that ... the best we can hope for on the allowance they have been given is survival of most kids.  Sharing the load is a valid strategy to get each child a "sufficient" education and live within all the laws and edicts from US and NC governments.   Thinking that we will place poor kids back in their neighborhood schools will somehow make them brilliant is idiotic.

Hey

That is you as one person, which is different than when one is talking about sharing food between a group.

One issue here is that the access to the group buffet is inequitable. Some students get access to steak equivilant resources while others just get access to beanie weanie resources and which resources a student can access is often correlated with what they can afford to eat in life or where they live. 

Hey, where I'm from people don't get to actually eat steak in life much either for two reasons: 1) the median income is <$40K and 2) they put a much higher percentage of their income toward education and community support (i.e. they give up steak to put more on the community buffet). They are probably better off for it anyway as steak is pretty unhealthy - all that animal fat. Wake has work to do on doing a better of job of thinking through the concept of community and ensuring equitable access to what is on the buffet. I would be curious what would happen here if we did local funding like there, where the people vote directly for millages for things like education, senior services, transit, etc. rather than politicians (who have their own agendas) being in the middle.

TPG .. I think one issue

TPG .. I think one issue that is unspoken and unresolved is deciding the value of kids.  What is mean is that I hear some posts where the value of all kids is the same (equal funding)... meaning that they all should get equal opportunity ... some posts argue for more resources for those that need more help (smaller class size, KIPP) ... we are forced to do that by law for special ed kids who might otherwise be kicked the curb ... and finally, I sense that some posters want the biggest investment going to the brightest kids since they will create the next Googles ....my personal belief is that PUBLIC education needs to initially bring EVERY child to the point where they can participate in a democratic society which means poor, slow, minority, special ed kids should get more than their fair share initially.... if after completing that goal money is left over we should invest in the next priority ... until we see a worth in educating poor minority kids to function in society which may mean Google Johnny does not get all of his languages and AP classes he wants, I don't think we can really do much for them except give them lib service.

It may be unresolved, but it is not unspoken

Chuck D's spoken generalizations are very clear on what value was placed on which income level students and families.

Just so we are clear

I meant that the steak eaters have been getting the steak resources. Remember the former cooks (per their "generalizations") believe that steak eaters are more beneficial than beanie weanie eaters. Therefore, the steak eaters were fed steak to keep them in the system and encourage them to go where their "better spices" would create "healthy schools", while the beanie weanie eaters were fed beanie weanies because that's what was expected for them. You also had some steak eaters given just hamburger in their pot because steak wasn't deemed necessary for them in the healthy schools recipe, and in fact, the cooks thought that giving them a little steak could have ruined the recipe because then not enough steak eaters would seek steak in a different pot.

Yes, and let's make sure

Yes, and let's make sure those steak buffets are all ITB, so the houses there increase in value. And let's ship out the low income kids all In the name of diversity - brilliant, and even the NAACP buys into this. Fascinating.

See I see the steak as AP

See I see the steak as AP classes which are concentrate OTB.

AP classes as steak

How is an AP class steak ?  A student needs to take a History class - choices are regular History, Honors History or AP History.  As long as all segments are full - ie. class size is the basic 30, how is an AP class considered steak ?

Some AP classes do not have

Some AP classes do not have an equivalent honors or regular class - for example AP Psychology, AP Statistics, AP Calc.

Because low schools like

Because low schools like Garner and Knighdale offer only 11 AP course while the average for all  HS is 18 and the most affluent school are >24 which give yet another little edge for college admission and scholarships.

AP classes

Garner and Knightdale have one of the lowest participation rates for AP classes. Knightdale <15% of the Juniors and Seniors participate. Garner less <20% of Juniors and Seniors participate. Of those that do participate, they do so at or less than 2 AP classes per unique student.  As the student body is not even taking advantage of what is being offered,  what would be the justification to offer more ?  Enloe on the other hand has a 70% participation rate and on average the unique students take almost 4 AP classes. 

Is there also an assumption that AP classes cost more to offer ? 

So if you are a smart

So if you are a smart ambitious kids from a low income school who wants the same AP offered affluent kids to complete with them for college scholarships, your parents need to move to an affluent school, right?  AP classes use the same teachers as Honors so there should not be an additional cost.

Hmm...

It seems to me that if your school offer 16 AP courses and some other school offers 24, you're only really at a disadvantage if those other 8 are things you're really interested in. 

It appears that there's a core set -- things like Calculus, English, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, US History, World History, French, German, Spanish -- and then a set of more esoteric courses -- Music Theory, Studio Art, Latin, Environmental Science, Macroeconomics, Chinese.  (Looks like the AP folks have been busy creating new courses since I graduated in the '80s).   I suggest that it's a lot worse not to offer, say, AP Physics, than it is not to offer, say, AP Music Theory.   So, going from 16 to 24 isn't really the 50% improvement that the numbers appear to indicate.

 

Esoteric AP

Yes times have changed since the 80's. In today's environment I would hardly call Music Theory, Environmental Science, Macroeconomics and Chinese esoteric courses. In case you hadn't noticed Band/Music is big business in these parts and there are alot of talented kids in wcpss.  Chinese - I would put ahead of French or German, Environmental Science - emerging sector that is huge. Macroeconomics - our kids do not know enough.  I know you are only an ES parent but if you are going to advocate a position for MS and HS, please get out more.  AP courses cost us almost nothing (maybe a higher qualified teacher)  and we should look at expanding the offering not cutting it back. Kids that sign up to take a basic class push them to Honors, Honors students push them to AP. 

I do find it a bit ironic - the Northerners coming down complaining about the lack of AP classes and yet if they stayed up North they would have only 7-10 AP offerings and pay 2x the property taxes (Margiotta). Sport a 90% graduation rate, but 47% of the students going on to college require remedial math and reading (Tedesco). 

So...

I'm just suggesting that some AP courses are more valuable than others, a fact which is glossed over when someone looks purely at the number of AP courses offered by different schools.  It may be that the people who complain "this other school has 7 more AP courses than my kids' school" ignore the fact that their kids may have no interest in any of those 7 courses because they're more niche courses.  (Like that word better?) 

I'm with you on expanding AP offerings, as long as there are enough interested students. 

I'm familiar with Aliquippa School District, where Tedesco spent some time and don't think anybody would rationally suggest that it should be a model for WCPSS.  You can't just pick a random northern district and say "look what the Yankees want to do to us," even if one of the board members happened to go there.

As to property taxes, you're only looking at half the pie -- northern states also generally have significantly lower income taxes.  Pennsylvania (where Aliquippa is) is at 3.07%; NC's is more than double that.   Nor surprisingly, PA's schools are funded mainly from property taxes, NC's mainly from income taxes.  (And, between the two, Property Taxes provide a far more stable revenue stream because they don't vary nearly as much with the economy.)

What the Yankees Want

"You can't just pick a random northern district and say "look what the Yankees want to do to us," even if one of the board members happened to go there."

Don't you read the blogs, Bob?  We know what the Yankees want to do to us.

They're here to take away our Moon pies, and damned if they haven't already done it.

My only intent in showing

My only intent in showing that low income schools have fewer AP courses than affluent schools and emphasize the study showing low income kids are excluded from advanced math classes ... I am sure there are other examples but these two are proof of the disparity in the system.   We can argue about the "quality" of individual AP offerings at individual school but I would prefer all kids get a chance to advance.  For example, in Fairfax they offer AP classes over the Internet, have traveling AP teachers and offer AP classes in summer school to serve kids that might be in school without enough critical mass for 30 kids.

I understand .... but my

I understand .... but my point is that if they want to build community schools and want people to attend and participate in their community schools than those schools need the resources like AP courses to keep the smart kids in the community ... otherwise, there is a brain drain from low income zones to affluent zones by smart, ambitious kids ....

"but my point is that if

"but my point is that if they want to build community schools and want people to attend and participate in their community schools than those schools need the resources like AP courses to keep the smart kids in the community ... otherwise, there is a brain drain from low income zones to affluent zones by smart, ambitious kids"

I'm with you 100% on that.  I think that WCPSS ought to define a set of core AP courses that WILL be offered at all schools regardless of the enrollment levels ---- probably somewhere around 12 or so rather than the 20+ offered at Enloe and Wakefield.  This would include English 3 and 4, Calc AB and BC, Physics, Chemistry, Bio, etc.  Like Bob noted, we don't all have to access to AP Latin or AP Music Theory to get a good education. 

Currently, the kids who are really being shafted here are the ones at East Wake.  Because of their insistence in keeping the four schools-within-a-school separate, it makes it pretty much impossible to reach critical mass to offer AP classes there.  That's why the individual schools there can only offer a couple of AP classes each.

Good idea

Good idea

Regarding East Wake high

Regarding East Wake high schools, I am pretty sure students can go cross-school to take AP courses.

See the subnote on the bottom of page 5:

"Students at the four East Wake High Schools may have been cross-enrolled in AP courses across campuses"

http://www.wcpss.net/evaluation-research/reports/2009/0928ap_09.pdf

The steak buffet starts much

The steak buffet starts much earlier in the magnet schools - by the time the kids are in high school, APs are just icing on the cake..... or gravy.

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About the blogger

T. Keung Hui covers Wake schools.

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