Do supporters of neighborhood schools have more to fear about the new student assignment plan than supporters of the old diversity policy?
As noted in today's article, school board vice chairman John Tedesco said he's not sure now that he'll vote for the assignment plan on Tuesday. Based on the election results and how Democratic candidates and their supporters are talking about setting up student achievement controls, Tedesco said he's worried that the choice plan could result in busing for test scores.
"The plan is better than what we have now,” Tedesco said of what will be voted on Tuesday. “But if the people who are in charge of the controls change then you could have busing for diversity like you’ve never seen.”
Tedesco said he likes how the plan now has siblings and proximity as the top selection priorities, followed by student achievement. He said calls to move up student achievement could set up "the mother of all busing for diversity plans."
While Tedesco still feels the node system is flawed, he said it allowed families to band together on student assignment. He said a new board could "monkey around" with the selection criteria in the choice plan with parents beomg on their own and not being able to lobby as a group.
Tedesco said he would have no problem with voting for the plan had the election results guranteed that the current majority would stay on. But he said the comments made by the new board members and the speakers at Thursday's hearing makes him worried about could happen if Kevin Hill is re-elected next month.
Tedesco said he wants Heather Losurdo to win the District 3 runoff because he feels she'll support his view of the selection priorities. But, based on his last two years of working with Hill, Tedesco feels that the incumbent would support implementation of a "quota system" using test scores if he wins.
Even if Tedesco votes no, it looks like there will be enough votes Tuesday for passage of the plan.
Comments
Tedesco is the best chance....
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 08:15 — localyankfor getting Kevin Hill re-elected. Rev. Barber understood that keeping a low profile during the election would help the democrats, but Tedesco can't seem to get the message for his own party. This is exactly why Margiotta lost, and somehow through their arrogance (or maybe cluelessness) neither he nor Tedesco get it.
so true
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 09:05 — EBDarcyTedesco's angry and belligerant comments on WRAL last Tuesday night probably lost Losurdo more votes than anything she will say or do.
Incompletely thought out...
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 07:14 — bpuli9999solutions.
Only 85% of students are going to get their first choice. In other comments, folks say that the other 15% will be happy with their second or third choices - would you be? So will the 15% create a lot of churn in the system every year?
At least, JT seems to be the only one who at least mentions busing for achievement. I cannot figure out why folks who are against the "forced busing" can support another form of the same.
Will I be happy with choice 2 or 3?
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 22:38 — FSandYOUHell no!
I'd like to see John and all of the current majority vote a big N O on the plan at this point. Wake County has proven it doesn't need an assignment plan that makes any sense to be as dysfunctional as one can get.
VOTE NO and then the fun can really begin.
lots of unhappy people
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 09:02 — EBDarcyI think the higher the percentage of people who get their first choice, the more upset those who don't will be. Look at it this way. If 10 kids from your neighborhood apply to school A and 50% get in, the parents of the 50% who didn't will likely say "oh well, we knew we had only a 50-50 chance of getting in" after thier initial disappointment. Their response is also tempered by the fact that there is the possibility of their child attending school with 4 other neighbors.
But what if 8 of the 10 kids got into school A? How will the remaining 2 children feel? How will their parents feel?
Perhaps knowing why one's child didn't get into school A might make their parents feel better on an intellectual level. But it might not do much for the emotional response people have where their children are concerned.
Won't the parents of most of the 15% who get choices 2 - 5 apply for transfers? The number of transfer requests could triple. I know this is an exaggeration but think about it.
I'm not saying this because I oppose the plan. I am saying it because the community must be realistic about the fact that the number of parents who are happy may go up rather than down.
Won't the parents of most of
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 09:34 — danofncWon't the parents of most of the 15% who get choices 2 - 5 apply for transfers? The number of transfer requests could triple. I know this is an exaggeration but think about it.
you are right
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 09:52 — EBDarcyIn theory you are right.
But I don't think that will stop people from trying to transfer their child in. (That's assuming that they know their child didn't get in because of capacity but we haven't been told that info will be shared.) It happens all the time now. People think "they can squeeze just one more kid in" at even the most crowded schools.
Will we know what the capacity limit will be at each school, per grade? Will WCPSS share that info? So many unanswered questions.
Capacity Limit At Each Grade....
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 10:36 — JanisTangothe choice application will tell you what the capacity limit is at each school for each grade. It will also tell you how many people have chosen that as their first choice. Like I said before, the choice priorities aren't even used if a school has more people choosing it than seats available. I would like to see them tell a family why they didn't get in if they had to go through the priorities to fill the seats, but I'm not sure what that would entail!
So, if you choose first, the
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 10:49 — danofncSo, if you choose first, the program would show that every seat was available.
If you choose last, you may see that you're 400th for 180 seats.
Is that what you're saying?
If choice priorities aren't used when a school has more applications than seats, doesn't that mean that you are extremely unlikely to be able to switch schools after you've been placed?
that's what I don't understand
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 11:49 — EBDarcyDan, that's the part of this I don't understand. If you can see the number as others apply that would mean the number changes daily. (Which it would likely do anyway with kids moving out of the area or to non-public schools or getting a last minute invite to a magnet or charter.) I'm presuming it's not first come/first placed so there would be no advantage to making your choices early. Given how parents are, won't many wait till the last minute to see what the most desirable schools will be, assuming that those must be the better schools?
If you have 5 choices, there would be no reason for WCPSS to give you an opportunity to change your selection order. I don't think that would be fair. If some parents can change their minds then every parent should have an opportunity to do that.
Also....
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 09:37 — JanisTangothe only time the priority process kicks in is when there is more kids choosing a school versus seats available. The priority process is not going to be used except in those cases. The other thing I really like in the process is when you sign up, they show you how many seats are available per grade and how many people have chosen that school as the first option. You can monitor the process to see if the priority options will even have to be used!
this feature?
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 09:52 — localyankThis is the first I've heard of this feature. It sounds good, but how do you know how many parents have chosen a given school as the first option as the process is taking place? It seems like this is a number that may change significantly from the beginning of the process of choosing a school to the end. Can you adjust your choices as that number changes? Or is that number from prior years? I like the plan overall, but there are many question in its implementation that have to be answered.
Yes and Not Sure....
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 10:45 — JanisTangoYes... you can monitor the school seats available at each grade and the number of kids that made that as their 1st choice throughout the process. The numbers will change and Mr. Tata said you check throughout the process to see what your chances are. I'm not sure about adjusting your choices as the process is taking place, but I would think that would allowed. Just like today, you can go through the magnets and year round application process and if you are given a seat at one of those schools, you can still decide to turn it down. At that time your seat becomes available for someone else who wanted that as an option.
I agree there has to be a lot of communication regarding the plan. There is a lot of misinformation out there and they really need to get out and clear up the misconceptions.
You can not turn down in this plan
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 17:36 — okefamlyThe information I heard 2 weeks ago was that a parent can not "turn down" an assignment. With the current system if you denied your assignment you were still at your base school. No base schools in this plan. If you apply and get, my understanding is the only way to "turn down" is to go through the transfer/appeal process after all assignments are given.
No!
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 20:48 — Bob_SconceThe public FAQ says that if you are at a school and decide to enter the choice system, you do have the option to retain your current assignment if you're not happy with what the choice plans gives.
I Believe That Would Be Correct...
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 17:54 — JanisTangoI apologize for the confusion. You still have the option of turning down a magnet though.
With that said..if a family doesn't make a choice they will be put into a school in their choice list. There is some talk that the low performing nodes might default to a high achievement school if no choice is made, but I'm not sure if that has been finalized.
Why would you think that you
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 10:55 — danofncWhy would you think that you could adjust your choices as you went along?
Families will be given 4 or 5 choices (for ES) and will be asked to rank them according to their desire to attend each one. Why would adjustments to that be needed? It's not like you can go outside of your original choice list.
And guess what...
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 12:08 — bpuli9999folks living in the poorer sections of the county will be stuck close to home. Which I think was the intent of the plan all along. Neighborhood schools for all!
Folks living in any part of the county
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 22:32 — FSandYOUhave another option, abandon and leave if that's what it takes to better their child's education. Since many, many parents in this county are as complacent as can be that idea has most likely never crossed their minds though.
I Don't Know For Sure....
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 11:56 — JanisTangobut it's just like my healthcare open enrollment. Once the period is open for you to make your school choices you will be given a window of opportunity to do that (i.e. January 1st through February 1st). Why would you not be allowed to go in and change your rankings and choices until the choice period was over? Maybe you were torn between two choices and ranked school A as 1 and school B as 2. If you changed your mind and the choice window was still open why should you not be allowed to change it (i.e. School A as 2 and School B as 1). Once the enrollment period is over I agree you should not be able to change it, but while it's open why not? Also, you can also choose a school outside your choices if you go through the now existing transfer process. That would occur after everyone is assigned to a school and they know the existing plan capacity! Mr. Tata did say if you wanted to go to a school that had available seats in another part of town close to where you work for example, you should be able to get the choice as long as you provide the transportation and there were seats available!
I Know It's Not Perfect....
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 09:33 — JanisTangobut we have that today in many areas of the county with the previous plan. People that lived in the subdivision across from you went to the neighborhood school and your neighborhood didn't. What about some really large subdivisions where the kids went to three different ES? In some of the poorer areas of town kids on the same street went to two different schools (odd versus even number addresses). I also know in larger neighborhoods like ours, not all of our neighbors want to go to the same school. I do understand the people that don't get the first choice versus second choice argument, but we also need to be realistic on what any plan no matter what it is can and cannot accomplish!
In some of the poorer areas
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 09:40 — danofncIn some of the poorer areas of town kids on the same street went to two different schools (odd versus even number addresses).
What Question Did I Deflect?
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 10:46 — JanisTangoI answered the question above the the capacity question per grade. Did I overlook a question?
The question about how the
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 10:52 — danofncThe question about how the "other 2" feel if 10 pick the same first choice and 8 get it.
You gave a diatribe about how things are now, which doesn't matter. The current plan isn't intended to give "choice", and was never touted as such, so the fact that people are sent to different schools now doesn't matter.
This assignment plan was supposed to correct that.
Of course....
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 10:13 — bpuli9999these burbites never cared about anybody else. That whole "the ED kids are getting short changed" argument was a sham and they knew it. Anyone who cared for those kids would never agree to this plan - ever.
yes, we do
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 21:31 — snordoneIn the current plan we create "healthy schools" by limiting ED children - these kids create "unhealthy schools," they are "bad" for schools. It has been an interesting 2 year conversation, we repeatedly got reports from E&R describing schools as healthy or unhealthy based on their demographic profile, but they never talked about achievement. So you have schools like Bugg that are 54% F&R and very high achieving in both academic growth and proficiency, and schools like Leesville that are 14% F&R and have minimal academic growth in all achievement levels (I-IV). And the NED kids are proficient but the ED kids are not.
The new plan removes the demographic profiling, which means we can change our culture. Children will no longer make a school healthy or unhealthy, we will consider academic achievement first and foremost. So, yes, those of us who work with ED children and their families do support the new assignment plan. We know firsthand the damage done by demographic profiling and we want it gone.
Snordone - you live in D3 - right?
Tue, 10/18/2011 - 08:46 — valsparWith such a firm grasp of the obvious (not a slam, I found it very well worded and on target - you DO know what you are talking about when it comes to ED children), and with Mansifeld out of the picture, does this mean you will support Hill vs Losurdo? The candidates' stances on lower performers are polar opposite, and it seems you are more in line with Hill's. I am very interested in your POV.
I Don't Know About That....
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 10:49 — JanisTangowhen some schools asked for the ED kids to stay at their school versus being reassigned, Mr. Dulaney and the previous board said NO. Their numbers were needed elsewhere (that means they needed to balance out the schools to make them all look 'healthy' versus what was best for the individual children).
Right....
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 12:01 — bpuli9999Let's see what you say when the new system decides to send a bunch of better performers to a lower performing school - to make it look healthy versus what is best for the individual performer.
Your Point Would Be What?
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 12:14 — JanisTangoMy daughter is at a non neighborhood school. The school we attend now is not even in our choice list under this new plan because it's not in proximity to where we live. We were put in this school because they needed our 'numbers'. That is happening today with high performing children. Your point would be what exactly?
I know there are some ED students today that are high performing . I see a real risk with the new board members thinking they can just move them around just because they are ED and not because of what is best for them. Remember, Mrs. Evans wants us all to not be so narrow minded and Dr. Martin wants us to become more educated because we don't agree with his position. I'm tired of a bunch of people that think they know more about what's best for a child versus the parent just because a student might be ED.
One-trick pony...
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 06:55 — uBniceIf a hammer is your only tool then you tend to see every problem as a nail.
Tedesco knows that he only has one way to appeal to his supporters: bring out the busing-for-diversity card. Play the race card even if his own hand-picked Superintendent has told them many, many times that it is growth that is the problem with the system.
Someone please inform Tedesco that WCPSS increased by nearly 4000 students this past year. Poor fella, he simply cannot comprehend the magnitude of the problem.
But it also appears that there is a clear rift between Tedesco and Tata. This should get interesting.
Silly...
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 08:07 — Bob_SconceJohn has recognized what a number of people have been saying all along: without transparency in the assignment system, it's too easily manipulated. Under the previous system, when your entire node was moved for "diversity," at least everybody knew it. Under the new system, if a student is denied a choice for reasons of "diversity," it can be done invisibly -- you'll get your 3rd choice and never know why you didn't get your 1st or 2nd.
irony in Tedesco's statement
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 08:27 — localyankIs the irony lost on him that this is a good plan if "we're" in control, and bad plan if "they're" in control? When is the us versus them mentality going away, because until that happens no plan will work, not even a compromise plan like what Tata has come up with. Tata has done what the board should have done two years ago - replace diversity with achievement, which is the point anyway, but put it below stability and proximity.
Congrats LocalYank
Tue, 10/18/2011 - 08:48 — valsparThis is the post of the day. Heck - I'll give you post of the week - early!
Is the irony not lost on you
Tue, 10/18/2011 - 09:03 — jeffrey1Is the irony not lost on you guys, that if the new board re-prioritzes achievement to be the number one consideration, then what was a good plan could easily become "we'll assign you to your 5th choice and you'll never know why."
The current plan could just
Tue, 10/18/2011 - 09:52 — danofncThe current plan could just as easily become that, since they don't have to provide any reasoning for which choice you're given.
But they are required to
Tue, 10/18/2011 - 10:26 — jeffrey1But they are required to follow the criteria in the order listed in the policy.
Diversity considerations were squashed...
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 08:22 — uBnicewhen the Tedesco group came in. Is that not the case? Why are we still talking about diversity? The "new" plan effectively got rid of it. You use diversity as a scapegoat.
The Tedesco group has had 2+ years to come up with a plan. They came in saying a plan was in dire need and proceeded to deliver nothing but rhetoric and diviseness. Playing on peoples fears and emotions.
We have spent all this time talking about a boogieman in the form of diversity. Where is the Academic Plan? Where is the cost breakdown for busing due to growth in this new plan?
One-trick pony...
Mon, 10/17/2011 - 06:56 — uBnice--