Here's a taste of the kind of questioning that the student assignment plan could get from the new Wake County school board majority.
During last week's ED task force meeting, new Wake school board member Jim Martin grilled staff during a Q&A on how the new plan is being presented to parents. He was concerned that the choice process isn't being adequately explained to parents, especially those who are less educated.
After hearing the staff presentation about the community outreach efforts, Martin, who has been a citizen member of the ED task force, said they were "getting a lot of the 10,000 ft. story."
Martin gave an example of an African-American dad who is working three jobs, has a third-grade reading level and had school discipline problems so he's scared to talked to school officials but knows he needs to because of the choice plan. He asked how staff would talk about the choice plan to that kind of person.
Chief Transformation Officer Judy Peppier said staff won't tell the parents where to go. But she said staff will show the parent the list of school choices, explain what the test results mean, explain the distances from home, talk about transportation and before and after-school options.
Martin asked what about if the person can barely read. Peppler responded that staff will be reading along with the parent the information.
"At the end of the day, the parents will make the decision, but they (staff) know to emphasize the high-performing schools and the regional-choice schools," Peppler said.
Martin asked how staff would emphasize the high-performing schools. Peppler responded they'd explain it has very good test scores and growth as shown by state exams.
Peppler added that it would be a very one-on-one individualized process with parents.
“It communicates to me the Ph.d. professor," Martin said. "For someone with a third-grade reading level, they will find it a challenge.”
Peppler said that person might be challenged if he was doing it by himself. She cited how they walked through the choices with a lot of parents. She said they will reach out to people who haven't made a choice yet.
Toward the end of the discussion, ED task force member Marvin Pittman said staff needs to send another message that the choice plan "isn't easy." He said it needs to be communicated to parents that it's a new system, "but it's not the best thing since sliced bread."
Pittman said they shouldn't try to sell it a a bill of goods or say it's easy to understand. Pittman said "intelligent educated people" are telling him that it's not an easy plan.
Comments
It may be more expensive but
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 08:49 — shearertwIt may be more expensive but likely more effective at addressing the needs of the children. So a margional increase in expense with an exponential increase in effectiveness/value. With that in mind, if the "effectiveness" remained the same, the expense could potentially decrease. I'm looking to raise effectiveness so expense would either stay the same or slightly increase.
The reality is, however, this is just a pipedream. DT Raleigh gets far too much out of having an combined school system that the powers that be will never let that happen.
Many, many would agree
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 09:32 — FSandYOUit will never happen.
Now since we're talking about costing more, maybe Reverend Martin could work into his next sermon how much more the assignment chaos is going to cost and how they're going to pay for it?
What's being said may be
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 13:59 — shearertwWhat's being said may be uncomfortable.
That, in itself doesn't make it a narrow worldview.
_________________________
Nor does it make it correct....
Fair enough
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:19 — criticalthinkerBut if that's your stand, you're basically saying everyone has suddenly reached enlightenment, and that all's good with the world.
We go back and forth on the blog.
And many here, including yourself much of the time, show tremendous intolerance.
I'm not disputing that I go toe-to-toe with many, returning blows, but I at least try not to start fights.
There's a big difference between saying very controversial things, and personal attacks.
I don't deny fighting back just as mean as it's dished out.
But what would be really nice would be if we all could learn how to distinguish major controversy from petty nonsense.
You know, rag on the world at large all that it needs - not so much at each other.
Then, maybe we'd actually accomplish something.
Thanks, Greg
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 11:55 — criticalthinkerNice clarification of what I'm trying to get at.
I think we're all better when we're able to balance two diverging ways of being.
We're at our best when we're able to revel in our own culture (assuming we have one - it helps), heritage, background, whatever.
And at the same time, being fulfilled by this, reaching out to really understand others, and truly becoming part of the world.
It really is about love helping us get over fear - even if that sounds like dated self-help.
It's make love, not war.
And not the other way around.
Please, please, please, keep up the good posts.
And try to pardon the other reply, from someone who I thought had calmed down for a moment.
I guess I was mistaken.
gregishere,You have no
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 11:08 — shearertwgregishere,
You have no understanding of why people prefer to have their children attend community schools and grow up in a stable community environment so I will not attempt to educate you. Your post above shows the contempt, close mindedness, ignorance, intolerance, and judgmental nature of the typical moron liberal elite.
Balderdash
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:46 — gregishereAnd blather. I love the world you live in, wherein to show openness is to be closed, to reach for knowledge is ignorance, to call names is to be considered smart and witty. Whatever. I get that you are afraid. I understand. I hereby express my due diligence of compassion that my moron elite liberal creeed requires. However, my children will get along just fine following my example. Yours, well, I hope they have the strength to break away from you. Obi Wan, it's there only hope.
Oh well
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 12:06 — criticalthinkerFor a minute there, I thought you'd gotten yourself together.
Silly me.
Still, I'm glad we had our special moment together.
LOL
California? Why didn't you
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 10:57 — shearertwCalifornia? Why didn't you say so before? That now makes perfect sense...
Seriously,
I respect you feelings that your children fit better in the magnet population than Sarah Palin's "real" Americans attending the base schools. We all fall into the trap of "grouping" people from time to time if just for simplicities sake during a blog debate. It's difficult to get any where without doing that sometimes.
Here's my point. You seem to miss California and the lifestyle, the people, etc that you experienced there. I respect and understand that. I personally miss living in Texas perhaps for the same reasons albeit the lifestyle, the people, etc are completely the opposite of what you find in California. I love visiting California but would never ever consider living there. However, I'm glad that Americans would prefer that way of life have a place to go and live and be happy. I would never attempt to change California to be more like Texas. I only ask that the people who prefer to live in California or NYC (as my example above) don't tell me that I'm "ignorant" or "don't have a world view" or "don't understand diversity" etc just because I choose to live in more rural area in a state like Texas that places greater emphasis on individual responsibilty and independance. I've lived in 3 very different parts of the country, rural SC, suburban SC, D.C. and rural Texas. I've also traveled to many diverse parts of the world (including many parts of California). I still prefer to live in more rural areas (particularly Texas). That's just what I like...That's just where the people I feel most comfortable with live. That doesn't mean I have a limited world view or that I have problem with "diversity". I think that is why our founders perfered the states to be strong so people who prefer different ways of life could find a place to live. You like California....I like Texas. I hope we can both find our way home one day. And, if someone attacks California one day, I promise I got your back.
Thanks
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 11:24 — criticalthinkerI appreciate your kind words.
But - LOL - California's nearly as big as Texas - with many, diverse kinds of places.
There's plenty of Californias where you'd feel right at home.
Again, what I keep hearing is that I somehow made incredible generic comments about how people are. And I again challenge you to show me where I did that.
As for Texas, in the trip out here - a two month, mostly excellent - with some major trauma thrown in for good measure - adventure, we were in Texas quite a bit.
And I wish we'd never left Austin. I love that place. Of course - LOL - that might be the one part of Texas you disavow.
I believe it's often referred to as the one, tiny blueberry floating in the giant bowl of tomato soup.
But, other than Austin, San Antonio, and the amazingly beautiful hill country not far from all of that, there's one part of Texas I really miss.
Bill Miller BBQ.
Are you kidding me?
You mean there are places where you pile your plate with both excellent BBQ and Mexican food at the same time?
Sign me up.
I'm sure there's some places
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 11:31 — shearertwI'm sure there's some places in California I could call home, got caught with my own broad brush.
Austin is in Texas? Outside of the longhorns, there's nothing in Austin Texas wouldn't hand over to California in a heartbeat. Trade you Austin for a month of San Diego's weather in August.
No kidding
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 11:27 — FSandYOULeft coast and a left leaner. Enjoying her free Magnet goodies while the rest suffer through not having any. Typical Californian. Just look at who they continue to elect.
Shhhh, I bet her last name rhymes with Pelosi.
HERE WE GO AGAIN
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 11:47 — criticalthinkerLOL
"Her"?
Wrong.
But you did get something right.
You have to be a card-carrying member (pardon the expression) to be given the extra-super, quadruple-top-secret magnet admission.
Or, maybe, just maybe, you need to get a little lucky.
We've been lucky, and not-so-lucky.
It's kind of normal.
It's kind of what a reasonable person would expect.
One who actually understands the sentiment behind JFK's quote about a citizen and their country.
And your point of view is especially annoying, seeing as you're on the same side of the fence as the people fighting against public schools.
Yet, you have the nerve to complain that you weren't taken care of.
But then, truly understanding how to allocate limited resources, rather than believing in some nonsense like trickle-down ecomomics (we all become peons) or voodoo economics, or the latest white-collar criminal's smoke-screen story, just seems to be beyond your grasp.
Oh, and Nancy Pelosi?
Plastic surgery aside...
She looks good.
One of my favorite politicians.
Probably not one of yours.
LOL
Don't blame me if the surgery didn't work
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 12:06 — FSandYOUAs for Pelosi, I could care less about her looks, but the fact you guys keep electing such a loon explains a lot about those from there.
Were you a Gray Davis supporter or was the joke Governor Schwarzenegger more your kind?
California is a 3rd world country within a country. I'm sure you'll enjoy your return.
Actually
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 12:11 — criticalthinkerThe surgery worked great.
Do you know how old she actually is?
The joke is more that it's obvious that she had it, not that it worked out badly.
As for the other two you mentioned, I'll be the first to admit California specializes in especially colorful goofballs.
But that market is still wide open.
I'm sure you or I (we'd obviously pick differently) could name lots of political nutjobs all across this great land.
California just specializes in former entertainers.
Like Ronnie Raygun.
I'm talking about your surgery
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 13:46 — FSandYOULOL!
CA specializes in a lot more than that, take you for instance ... a shining example of what our 3rd world state has to offer beyond their loon politicians.
My lobotomy?
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:05 — criticalthinkerI need one whenever you're near.
I was referring to your transgender switch-a-roo
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:35 — FSandYOUbut whatever works for you.
Obviously.
Good stuff
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:05 — criticalthinkerEntertaining, I'll give you that.
George Carlin (one of my big heroes) had a great retort to "Go F Yourself".
"If I could, I'd never leave the house."
I'm here all week
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:22 — FSandYOUWith 2 shows on Sunday at Reverend Petty's church!
What fun is that?
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:29 — criticalthinkerNo naughty words...
Perhaps your neighbors
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:34 — shearertwPerhaps your neighbors prefer their neighborhood over other parts of the "world" which is why the choose to live there. That doesn't make them ignorant of the rest of the world. For example, I would not like to live in NYC, not because I'm ignorant of NYC, but that way of life and the type of people that live there do not share much in common with me or my family. I do not want the people of NYC to change to be more like me just not to force my to live the life they have chosen. Likewise, I don't believe many people who like living in NYC would enjoy living in my neighborhood. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way I live, just different. Understanding the FACT that people are different and prefer to live differently that others is, in my opinion, part of understanding and respecting diversity. People don't live in suburban neighborhoods because they are racist or because they don't have a clue about diversity. They live there because that's the life they want for themselves and they're families. If someone of a different race/color/nationality wants to live a similar lifestyle, has similar core beliefs, etc and wants to live in that neighborhood and have their children attend that school, etc, no one will have any problem with that at all. However, if someone (of any color/race/nationality) moves in to my neighborhood, chooses to sell drugs, steal, be obnoxious and have loud parties at night, be mean to me or my children, let their house fall apart and the weeds grow up, let their children dissrupt the classroom, etc. I'm going to (rightly so) have a problem with that. People who live in cities have a different lifestyle (not saying the above description is it) and have different expectations, generally, than those who live in suburbs. I'm not passing judgement on either way of life...I'm just tired of being told I'm "ignorant" or "racist" because of the life I choose for my me and my family. Nothing could be further from the truth. I don't choose the "city life" not because the people look different but because they ARE different (not in a bad way, just different). People are different, everyone is not going to be best friends (and that's ok) and that is the true mining of diversity.
Um...
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:48 — criticalthinkerI never made a blanket statment about all of my neighbors.
Nor did I equate their choice of where to live with their world knowledge.
I'm basing my statement on actual conversations, not some idealogical pronouncement regarding suburbanites (which, LOL, is an especially good thing, seeing as I am one).
You continue to put words in my mouth I never come close to saying.
You continue to make broad, far-reaching assumptions based on the above.
You continue to bring in all kinds of topics that would be kindly described as tangiential.
And, if you'll remember, this was originally about Jim Martin.
But the Susan Evans comment seems to have really got you going.
Hmmm...
I suspect, over the next
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 20:00 — shearertwI suspect, over the next four years, Jim Martin and Susan Evans will be pretty much interchangable....
If you were really a critical thinker, you'd realize my comments are right on target, not tangiential.
I understand neither the
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 13:07 — finalfrontierI understand neither the plan nor the rationale for a total reengineering of the assignment process. What I do understand is that things will change, some decisions will be made on the fly, and that it's gotten a whole lot confusing. And it sucks I have a couple of degrees. So Prof. Martin didn't have me in mind but I am one of those totally clueless. :(
DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 13:03 — criticalthinkerMartin never fails to remind you of his smarts. And people don't care how much you know so much as they want to know how much you care.
While you're complaining of his manner, remember that he's actually trying to tackle a major, current problem that we all have understanding the new plan.
And he's structuring his example around a group that, regardless of political persuasion, we all here on the blog reference as being in dire need.
Lots of the writers on this forum complain about their lot, but it's not usually the people referenced in Martin's example.
At least give the guy credit for trying to help them, rather than just using them as a means to earn proof points for various shell-game arguments with the public.
Personally
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 00:12 — nmoskalI'd rather someone respect me than care about me.
I'm confused. What "group" do you mean?
So would those in the
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 09:44 — HJ2ss2So would those in the "group". Attempts at caring have been tried for years. " Genuine" respect is much more effective.
Respect?
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 12:21 — criticalthinkerThe "group" is economically disadvantaged.
Just because you're not happy with past attempts doesn't mean they should stop.
As for genuine respect...
Please explain - both of you -in your opinions - what that looks like.
I am neither happy nor
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 22:56 — HJ2ss2I am neither happy nor unhappy with past attempts. I do know that they do not work. That there are more effective interventions.
Genuine respect involves recognizing the inherent dignity and worth of a person rather than treating them with superficial politeness.
Really?
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 09:53 — criticalthinkerI know that they do not work. That there are more effective interventions.
You "know"?
Whatever.
I do agree with the second part.
And I agree with your last sentence.
And, from my personal experience (which of course, just means this is my opinion) I've seen a lot more of what you want from the folks on my side of the fence and less from yours - but I think we'll save all the readers a lot of grief by agreeing to disagree.
I "know" is not meant to be
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:41 — HJ2ss2I "know" is not meant to be arrogant. It is based on my education and expereience (clinical social worker) for 30 years. I saw the school system do the same thing over and over with the same ineffective results but the fact that they appear to be doing something is all they seem to care about.
Not sure what side of the fence you believe I am on?
Okay
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:57 — criticalthinkerIt sounds like you're on the experiencial side of the fence, which is the only one worth a damn.
Keeping up nice appearances, passing the buck, and working not so smart are widespread problems - and not just in public schools.
So I guess it all comes down to experienced people seeking non-idealogical solutions.
And this is possible, as long as people are willing to look at all of the dirt, take the best ideas from all viewpoints, implement properly, and be accountable afterwards.
Agree.
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 14:36 — HJ2ss2Agree. Wake County would differ with that opinion, if fact, when presented with the literature, ignored the information.
Tell me more
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 17:37 — criticalthinkerHumor me.
I tend to tune out a lot of the wonky stuff.
My head would explode.
But I think you could do a good job of showing me what literature they ignored.
I want to know what it said, who wrote it, and what happened next.
Thanks.
It's a very long story
Sat, 12/10/2011 - 00:27 — HJ2ss2It's a very long story involving power, deception, intimidation and politics. Can't have your head exploding......it would be quite a mess. According to my attorney, what they did was unethical and in violation of their own policy but not illegal.
There are many excellent administrators and faculty in the Wake County School System. If you are a middle class, involved parent your child can get a decent education in Wake, not so for the "at risk" students. At this point, I don't believe that will change.
Respect
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 21:34 — nmoskalWikipedia's description is pretty good - "it denotes both a positive feeling of esteem for a person and specific actions and conduct representative of that esteem." (Esteem - to regard highly or favorably; regard with respect or admiration).
My comment and viewpoint is that of someone who has been in the economically disadvantaged "group".
I'll share just a few things (pulled from internet) written from one perspective of those who have been there -
"Being poor is knowing you're being judged."
"Being poor is people being surprised to discover you're not actually stupid."
"I don’t like how middle class people present themselves as progessive champions of the working class and down trodden while displaying absolute contempt for real working class people and the things they like. Bleep inner-city hipsters and their public displays of humanatarism (sic). They only embrace the idea of it so they can put bleep on those who don’t bang a drum about it like they do." (I changed the wording to bleep.)
Been there
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 09:48 — criticalthinkerI, too, lived on next to nothing for at least a decade.
I don't think it's fair to paint the folks you seem to be mad at in your post with the same, broad brush that you're complaining they do.
It's not virtuous to be rich.
It's not virtuous to be poor.
It's virtuous to be virtuous.
What follows is an oversimplification, but the story is still germaine:
When I lived on Oakland, half of my African-American neighbors were a delight to converse with - I should be so well mannered - and half had daggers in their eyes.
What conclusion should I draw?
How about:
You could no doubt take any group of people and find ones you like and who like you, and find the other side of the coin, as well.
And that is an objective observation of a subjective situation.
None of us has the right to think it's an objective situation.
People just seem to get their tastes and value judgements confused all the time.
You're assuming the left-leaning side of the board doesn't care.
I disagree.
And, until I see actual evidence to the contrary, you'll have to do a lot of convincing to show me that the other side of the board has better things in store for the downtrodden than smoke-screen shell games.
Just to be clear those mad words weren't mine
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:33 — nmoskalI pulled them from the internet and while I can appreciate and relate to from where they are coming, they are not my words or direct feelings. Personally, I'm not so much mad as frustrated.
I never said the left-leaning side didn't care. First off, it isn't left-leaning that is the issue. It's elitism. I said I'd rather someone respect me than care about me and that there is a difference between "caring" and "respecting". It is like what the mad person was saying - there are plenty of affluent people that "care" about the poor, but they do not respect them at the same time. There are left-leaning and right-leaning people who are elitist. There are left-leaning and right-leaning people who are not elitist as well. Many of my friends fall in this group and my friends lean both ways. Me, I'm about as straight up and down as they come (based on political ideology quizzes I've taken). As someone who's been there, I'd like to see people spending less time caring in a paternalistic, superiority/inferiority manner and more time developing respect for those who are economically disadvantaged in a none elitist manner.
It's interesting that you mention smoke-screen shell games, because that's exactly what a number of people I know felt about the former diversity policy, and no they weren't just using that perspective as a smoke-screen to get those kids out of their schools. So, the new board members will have to do a lot of convincing for me to believe they have something better in store for the downtrodden than policies based on elitist, deficit model, poverty theories created by people who have never been downtrodden. I'm not under the impression that any of the newly elected have ever been there.
I agree...
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:59 — Bob_Sconcethey weren't just using that perspective as a smoke-screen to get those kids out of their schools
From what I've seen, people who just want to get "those" kids out of their schools don't use a smoke-screen -- they're direct about it. In '08 when two black students at WHS put a white kid in the hospital** (www.newsobserver.com/2008/09/24/42321/2-more-teens-charged-in-attack.html), the outcry among parents at that school was all about safety, not about how the diversity policy wasn't improving performance. Interestingly, that attitude came both from white and black friends in the neighborhood.
(**Interestingly, Kevin Hill's famous Bedford "stonewall" comment was made in '09 in response to Principal Mark Savage, who had just been transferred from WHS to HHS. Savage's original email to Hill was that he *didn't* want the kids from the Berkshire Downs area, where the assailants were from, and was worried that those were the students he'd get if he gave up Bedford.)
good stuff
Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:27 — criticalthinkerLots of excellent thoughts in your post.
But you brought up the word that drives me crazy.
To me, elitism is feeling that you have the right to things that others don't - and acting on it to protect your beliefs.
And for me, I really don't see how any true progressive would be this way.
Arrogance?
Bad manners?
Being so extreme as to be goofy?
Many of all political ilks are guilty of some or all of these.
But again, regardless of who's being referenced, it seems that elite and all of its other word forms gets misused constantly.
I think of it in the same way as the main, original use of the word royal.
Anyway, this is just my take on it.
I'm open to other ones...
The nutty professor strikes first
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 11:03 — FSandYOUThe end of the new plan is getting closer and it's only day 2!
TOLD YOU SO!
After hearing the staff
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 10:58 — jenmanAfter hearing the staff presentation about the community outreach efforts, Martin, who has been a citizen member of the ED task force, said they were "getting a lot of the 10,000 ft. story."
Am I understanding this correctly? He is worried that the info is too confusing, especially for those who are less educated. Is he suggesting that they be given less info? It sounds like he is suggesting that staff steer them towards the regional options.
Ambiguously written?
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 11:50 — localyankWas Martin saying that the committee was getting "a lot of the 10,000 ft story", or that the parents were getting that? As the sentence is written it's not clear to me who "they" means. It makes a big difference to your comment.
Martin was referring to the
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 11:52 — KeungHui (author)Martin was referring to the task force. That's why he laid out his specific example of that dad with multiple jobs to see how it's being explainined at the ground level.
OK
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 11:55 — localyankOK, this makes sense. I think in her comment Jenman may have misinterpreted what he meant.
That's why I asked if I
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 12:33 — jenmanThat's why I asked if I understood it correctly. Thank you for not jumping down my throat.
I still don't really understand the comment but it wouldn't be the first time I was confused. :D
...
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 10:54 — SideburnsSomehow he always manages to mention that he has a PhD. In his world, we're all less educated. What an arrogant jerk.
my experience
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 10:26 — EBDarcyStaff at the local schools doesn't know much more than parents and will usually refer you to the comittee or G&P because they are afraid to give you a wrong answer. But everything is so new, rushed or influx that they don't always know the answer. Or you you get conflicting answers from people in the same office.
Why are we rushing to implement this plan with so many unanswered questions?
Because...
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 10:39 — Bob_SconceThere are going to be 3,000+ additional students next year. We need some method to decide where they go to school. The alternatives all involve some sort of reassignment.