How much is it worth it for the new Wake County school board majority to get rid of Superintendent Del Burns before June 30?
As noted in today's article, the board majority says it wants to work with him through the end of June 30. But there's another option available.
In Burns' contract, there's a provision that says that once he submits written notice of resignation the board can unilaterally choose to terminate him immediately. (The contract I've posted is the original from 2006 but school board attorney Ann Majestic said the language is still there.)
By terminating him now, the board would owe Burns his salary through June 30 and pay for any unused state accrued annual leave. I don't know how much leave Burns has got, but we're looking at around $68,000 in salary.
Normally, the board would have to pay Burns 18 months worth of salary if they wanted to buy his contract out early. That's worth $409,500.
But the buyout option was waived once Burns submitted his notice on Tuesday.
The board could also try to fire him for cause but it would be expensive and messy.
The board could also waive the requirement that Burns has to give 90 days notice to avoid a $30,000 penalty. But Burns said he wants to stay through June 30. Plus, would he want to leave early and not take the four months salary and pay from annual leave he could get in return?
Another option proposed Thursday by the Wake Schools Community Alliance was to reassign Burns and hire an active superintendent.
Now, the board could continue to work with Burns through June 30.
But Burns made it very clear in several media interviews on Thursday that he's opposed to the policies of the board majority.
The criticism caused school board member John Tedesco, who was designated the main spokesman Thursday by Ron Margiotta, to warn that Burns could face insubordination charges if he can't work effectively with the majority.
“If he basically can’t perform the duties of his job, it either becomes inadequate job performance or insubordination or something that needs to be dealt with at another level,” said Tedesco in the article. “We hope that doesn’t happen. I have great respect for him as a person.”
Now school board member Keith Sutton warned that the board minority would try to block any personnel action against Burns.
"That’s not going to happen,” Sutton said of the prospect of personnel action. “Del Burns has served this system with distinction and honor and integrity. To think that that we would treat him with any less than that in terms of respect is ridiculous and preposterous.”
Comments
Here is an interesting
Fri, 02/19/2010 - 19:20 — woodstockHere is an interesting perspective. Burns' retirement income ($140,000+) will be more than all 9 members of Wake BoE earn combined per year as board members.
Well the four newbies and
Fri, 02/19/2010 - 23:52 — user12345Well the four newbies and their Ron leader have not even shown they are worth the $14k we give them yet ...
Well USER1234 & Festus
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 09:06 — Voice_of_Reason_User - I guess all the people on welfare that are given more per year than the BOE members out of yours and my pocket aren't worth it either. Your true inner self is reveiled.
And Festus if you use your logic the BOE would get paid a lot too, they are like Boards of Directors, they usually get huge stock options in the corporate world and most are not full time employees either. Think about that.
The BOE should not have much
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 10:20 — user12345The BOE should not have much to do if they manage things correctly ... they should set direction and make high level decisions like a board of directors ... which is worth $14k ... if they choose to get in the nuts and bolts deciding where each kid goes, the size of each node, how many pencils each school gets than that is their problem ... given that they don't trust their staff and have to double check them is their leadership problem ... VOR ... these are citizen advisors who work at the highest level setting direction and policy .... that is all that is requested ...
Noo..
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 12:27 — Bob_SconceBy your standard, no WCPSS board has ever managed anything correctly.
In reality, the board does a lot more than what you seem to think they should. Here's a list of things they're tasked with by law:
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_115C/GS_115C-47.html
And, on top of that, the board has a duty to be informed about each of the matters they're voting on -- that takes a lot of time all by itself.
Bob ... did you read what
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 13:38 — user12345Bob ... did you read what you posted .. how much time does a member need to spend dividing the attendance areas or ensure the flag is raised each week? 95% of all this is handled by staff and the member just needs to look it over ensure it is being done ... now, if you distrust everyone including your staff, it is much harder ...
...To Divide Local School Administrative Units into Attendance Areas. ... To Regulate Extracurricular Activities. ....To Fix Time of Opening and Closing Schools. ...To Regulate Fees, Charges and Solicitations. ...To Accept and Administer Federal or Private Funds. ... To Assure Accurate Attendance Records. ...To Assure Appropriate Class Size. ... file a report describing the organization of each school, the duties of each teacher, the size of each class, and the teaching load of each teacher. To Elect a Superintendent. ...To Supply an Office, Equipment and Clerical Assistance for the Superintendent. .. To Remove a Superintendent, ... To Make Rules Concerning the Conduct and Duties of Personnel. .. To Adopt Rules and Policies Limiting the Noninstructional Duties of Teachers. .. To Approve the Assignment of Duties to an Assistant Principal. ..To Provide School Food Services. ...Purchase of Activity Buses ... Secure Liability Insurance. .. To Authorize the Observance of a Moment of Silence. –... Require the Display of the United States and North Carolina Flags
Hmm..
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 13:45 — Bob_SconceSo, while I agree that some thing on that list consume little or no time, it seems to me that the board spends an awful lot of time doing others. Consider attendence areas, for example -- this month alone, they'll spend, what, 10 hours at community engagement meetings where that's the main topic of conversation. And, it's a non-exclusive list.
I agree that not being able to trust your staff doesn't help -- heck, Del Burns said as much on Tuesday (and repeatedly on Thursday). But, the solution to that is to get staff you can trust. So, it's important for the Board to be active in identifying new superintendents who generally agree with their policy preferences.
Burns said the super does 2
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 15:19 — shank56Burns said the super does 2 things:
1 .manage day to day operation of the system
2. Implement policies adopted by the BOE
He said to be an effective Super, there has to be communication, involvement, and trust.
And he's right...
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 18:07 — Bob_SconceI don't think anybody would disagree with that description. I suspect that two of the last 3 are deteriorated or just altogether missing. I don't think Del trusts the Board and I don't think the Board trusts Del. And, well, surprising the Board with your retirement at a public meeting didn't particularly help trust or communication.
So, given that situation, is he going to be able to be an effective Superintendent over the next 4 months?
Bob
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 14:25 — Voice_of_Reason_It's amazing how user1234 left out so many of the 59 things listed. It is also amazing how little time he thinks doing those 59 things right takes.
I do agree with you, trust is huge. If you have people working that you can't rely on to carry out your policy, it makes your job a lot harder. That's why I am glad Dr Burns and Dulaney stepped down voluntarily.
Here is what the BOE for
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 13:56 — user12345Here is what the BOE for Orange county does according to their website ...
What does a school board do?
We develop policy and direction for the school system. We approve the budget and priorities for the school system. We approve all hiring in the school system. We do not manage the daily operations of the school district. That is the job of the superintendent and the staff. .
Yeah...
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 14:37 — Bob_SconceSo, that's a good general description. But, it's clearly not intended to be an exhaustive description.
Regardless, where has the Wake Board managed the daily operations of the District? The job is hard enough without having to do that.
"And, on top of that, the
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 13:28 — user12345"And, on top of that, the board has a duty to be informed about each of the matters they're voting on -- that takes a lot of time all by itself. "
Does that include the last minute items the segregation five sneak on the agenda?
So...
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 13:32 — Bob_SconceI'm not going to respond to "segregation five" nonsense. Name-calling isn't helpful to any sort of rational discussion.
That said, I think I've made my view on that question pretty clear.
Spoken like
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 12:11 — Voice_of_Reason_A person who never managed any large program or oversaw any organization. I guess that's why corporations pay Boards of Directors millions of dollars.
You are showing your colors again.
I don't think Board of
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 13:25 — user12345I don't think Board of Directors get paid millions of dollars unless they are part of some DotCom ... they typically get paid a nominal amout plus expenses with a generous stock option plan that only comes in with real results as measured by the market in stock price over the long term.
True, but
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 14:12 — Voice_of_Reason_Those stock options aren't too bad. My older brother is on a board (not of a dot com) and he does pretty darn well on those stock options and he doesn't have to work as hard as our school board or have to put up with the crap.
Anyway my point is not paying the BOE more, my point is relativism of the pay.
(where is the rolling of the
Fri, 02/19/2010 - 23:58 — woodstock(where is the rolling of the eyes icon?)
Is this a surprise?
Fri, 02/19/2010 - 22:18 — festusHe estimated his weekly hours when pushed by the WRAL reporter--suggested it was about 60-70 hours M-F, another 8-10 on the weekend--then you figure he was employed for 33 years as teacher and administrator, rising to Superintendent of a system with 140,000 students. His salary seems quite reasonable, and there is no golden parachute. How much do corporate executives with thousands of employees make? And add to that he has daily responsibility for 140,000 children, not just for profits.
performance evaluation
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 09:39 — loriacI would be interested to see a by the numbers performance evaluation for his service. Where are we compared to 5 years ago. I only got into this a year ago, so I remember most the holding of the EVAAS report, pushing state class size waivers even though he was told unequivocally they would not be approved this year (and the resulting impacts on KIDS), magnet schools where most of the ED population is not at grade level, a 54% ED graduation rate.
Has anyone done this?
I'd like to see how many
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 10:22 — shank56I'd like to see how many F&R and ESL kids move into and out of each school during the year- and what percentage stays in a school the entire school year.
Festus
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 09:30 — Voice_of_Reason_" And add to that he has daily responsibility for 140,000 children, not just for profits"
Yeah, I forgot how good a job he did solving why little children were left miles from their homes by buses at the beginning of this school year. He took over a week to comment and after somebody called for his resignation at a board meeting. I am not sure anything has been done yet to prevent it from happening again (I may be wrong on this).
"How much do corporate
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 00:03 — CaryCurmudgeon"How much do corporate executives with thousands of employees make?"
In some cases they make more than $273K/year. In most cases they get fired when they fail to meet their key objectives for five straight years.
Festus - Give me a break
Fri, 02/19/2010 - 23:31 — Voice_of_Reason_There is not a public SERVANT alive, including the president of the US that deserves this. Are you living in fantasy land? How much taxes did you pay last year?
"Quite reasonable" - Give me a break, let him go to the private sector and get his fortune. Public Education is a vocation, not a path to wealth.
BTW- For disclosure purposes. I was a US government employee and I get a retirement. But then I risked my life every day for 24 years and had a job with no civilian carreer counterpart. I didn't do it for the money either.
Why are public servants less valuable than private servants?
Fri, 02/19/2010 - 23:36 — festusSeriously Voice--why is a man with 33 years service to arguably the most important institution in our community worth less to us than an easy come, easy go corporate leader? Why should career military earn less than career corporate? What makes public service so despicable? Why should we not honor public employees with living wages and even high wages after a long, productive career?
Edit: We demand accountability from public servants--why should they not in turn receive good wages?
So..
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 10:26 — Bob_SconceRecognize that public employment generally has much nicer retirement benefits than private employment does. The world is full of 20-year public employees on full pension working their second career.
In any case, it's not a 'why' question. It's like that because the markets for the different positions are different. If you want to go into public education, you know that you'll be paid less than in the private sector but you will get a lot of intangible benefits. It's a bit silly to now claim "Del Burns isn't being paid enough" -- if it's not enough, then he had the chance to negotiate a different salary when he started. But, he accepted this job; nobody forced him into it.
One other thing
Sun, 02/21/2010 - 17:07 — Voice_of_Reason_So then are you for giving the school board members a raise? I think they get about $16K/yr to put up with our gripes. Let's see we could nearly double that with a little over one year of Dr Burn's retirement. Just to be fair.
TWO WORDS - PUBLIC MONEY
Fri, 02/19/2010 - 23:54 — Voice_of_Reason_I was career military, I risked my life in 3 wars (almost lost it a couple of times), I worked many 20+ hour days, was away from my family many months, and you trusted me with hundreds of millions of dollars worth of your stuff and the lives of many brave soldiers/airmen. I gave up an engineering job to serve. I didn't even use my degree the 24 years I was in. I would now have to go back to college and relearn almost everything if I wanted to do that. I would have to start a new career over the age of 50. And for that I get a good retirement, but nowhere near his. Think about that a while, does he really deserve it? BTW- I'm 40% service connected disabled, they (the VA) pays me for that ($600/mo) and the government takes it right back out of my retirement. (all I get out of that is $600/mo non taxed vs. taxed).
No I don't think he deserves it. --- SERIOUSLY !!
Thank you for your service
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 00:04 — festusI think you are making my point. Why does no one blink at paying CEOs top dollar, or entertainers? I would like my public servants paid well.
You're welcome - But I am not making your point
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 10:25 — Voice_of_Reason_But I didn't serve for money. I performed a public service, I didn't make wealth. I am lucky I got a retirement that I could live on, nowhere near comfortable or near Dr Burn's, but it is stable.
I don't begrudge the retirement pay based on his years as a teacher, only the huge amount. It is well in excess of a living wage. I would put an age start date though, say 65. Government at any level cannot afford it, especially now and in the future. Where is all this money coming from? In case you haven't heard we're broke and in debt up to our eyeballs.
And to answer your point on why public servants are worth less, I don't think they are, but I think that you need to factor in public service, i.e. giving back to the community. There is more to life than money, there is a pride of accomplishment and self worth and that is invaluable.
But I do think career soldiers, firemen, & policemen do deserve special treatment. Everbody else, we should let the market decide their benefit package.
PS - User1234, I have other income than my retirement, in case you are confused. (inside joke)
"PS - User1234, I
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 10:30 — user12345"PS - User1234, I have other income than my retirement, in case you are confused. (inside joke) "
I figured you were a "double dipper" ... remember my father was carreer officer too ....
Sorry to burst your bubble
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 12:12 — Voice_of_Reason_I'm not a double dipper, I don't work for the government. My other income is purely private sector.
No disagreement, provided
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 00:05 — CaryCurmudgeonNo disagreement, provided the accountability goes with it.
I was not begrudging Burns'
Fri, 02/19/2010 - 22:31 — woodstockI was not begrudging Burns' salary or benefits package. I am all for people making what they can and I think people in responsible positions deserve to be paid well. I was just contrasting his income to that of his bosses.
As Joe Citizen - I am
Fri, 02/19/2010 - 23:20 — Voice_of_Reason_Dr Burns gets paid more than the Governor, a US Supreme Court Justice, and a 4-star general. This is a ridiculous salary for a public official plus now we see a benefit retirement that rivals most. Listen people, we can't afford this in public service anymore. Those that say we can't attract good people without paying this have their heads where the sun doesn't shine. If the salary was tied to performance, maybe I would go along with it, but it's not. If one wants a huge salary, work in the private sector. I would rather someone dedicated to a cause than looking for a huge nest-egg.
I defy anyone to justify this salary and benefit package, what has he done to deserve this? He didn't even risk his life. Then we can talk about the lottery commisioner.
BTW- If you say it is in line with other districts, I still say justify it.
BTW- This was aimed at the previous school board(s), not Dr Burns himself.
How much should we pay a
Fri, 02/19/2010 - 23:30 — woodstockHow much should we pay a high quality superintendent that oversees a budget of well over a billion dollars?
To put it in perspective
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 00:24 — Voice_of_Reason_I was overseeing over a billon dollars worth of assets and paid less than $100K when I was 40 years old. He oversees, he has a staff that helps him.
Well let's see
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 00:19 — Voice_of_Reason_I think around $200K/yr would be a good salary and add a bonus clause that could give him extra money based on performance. No retirement benefit from this job. But I would give him/her a nice office, staff, and reasonable expense account.
BTW- I don't think we need a career educator in this job. That is not what he does.
Agree ... that would be a
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 10:27 — user12345Agree ... that would be a good place to start so there is room to grow ...
capitalism would say as
Fri, 02/19/2010 - 23:38 — user12345capitalism would say as little as possible ...
...or as much as
Fri, 02/19/2010 - 23:41 — woodstock...or as much as necessary.
Actually, capitalism would let the market dictate the salary.
... remember we don't have
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 10:28 — user12345... remember we don't have unlimited stockholder funds like a Wall Street bank or Airline for a CEO ...
"Unlimited funds?"
Sun, 02/21/2010 - 14:27 — woodstock"Unlimited funds?"
Capitalism makes money
Fri, 02/19/2010 - 23:57 — Voice_of_Reason_Really and it demands performance.
What's your answer, Voice?
Sat, 02/20/2010 - 00:00 — woodstockWhat's your answer, Voice? How much should we pay our next superintendent?
We should pay our next
Sun, 02/21/2010 - 15:37 — CaryCurmudgeonWe should pay our next superintendent what it takes to get the best person. An effective superintendent will actually save us money, by eliminating wasteful programs and positions. Do I think Burns was overpaid at $273k/year? Yes, given the results he achieved. But show me a candidate for superintendent who can reverse the trend of academic failure and drive this system efficiently, then I have no objection to that person making more.
I would hope that the board crafts a contract for the new superintendent which ties a much greater share of their compensation to school performance.
CC and I agree ;-)
Sun, 02/21/2010 - 23:00 — supportwcpssI agree with you completely CC. All school system employees should be held to performance. However, as we know this is the public sector and that Titantic isn't turning anytime soon. Doing it for the Super and not implementing something across the system just wouldn't fly.
The difference is
Mon, 02/22/2010 - 10:17 — Voice_of_Reason_The School Board is the one that hires the Superintendent. The Superintendent hires and can fire his staff and can do so to achieve his objectives. If we need to revamp the way we hire and fire, then the super can and should make the case for it...that's what true leaders do.
Correct me..
Mon, 02/22/2010 - 10:55 — supportwcpssAren't there state laws on how teachers are paid and evaluated...I don't think we can jsut flip a switch and be in a merit based system.
Well - that would be up to
Sun, 02/21/2010 - 23:10 — loriacWell - that would be up to the superintendent to figure out how best to motivate and manage his/her employees in order to meet the performance expectations.