You can probably add Ann Denlinger, president of the Wake Education Partnership, to the list of people who will be invited to speak at a meeting of the county commissioners.
The request is coming from Commissioner Joe Bryan, who was impressed by a presentation Denlinger made at a Tuesday forum sponsored by the Knightdale 100, a new grassroots group that wants to improve education in Eastern Wake.
Denlinger noted how Knightdale High had 11 Advanced Placement courses while Enloe High had 28 of them. Denlinger told the crowd about the need to offer more AP classes.
Denlinger also presented statistics showing that Knightdale High has both a lower percentage of students taking the SAT and a lower average SAT score than the district.
Bryan said he's asked Tony Gurley, chairman of the board of commissioners, to put Denlinger's presentation on the agenda of the next joint meeting of the commissioners and school board.
The commissioners have been getting progressively more interested in hearing speakers discuss education issues.
Commissioner Stan Norwalk wants to bring in Richard Kahlenberg, a senior fellow at the Century Foundation and a strong supporter of Wake's diversity policy.
Gurley had brought in William Sanders from the SAS Institute to present the EVAAS report.
Many thanks to Eastern Wake News reporter Denise Sherman for her information about Tuesday's meeting.
Comments
A lottery system "true" or
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 20:25 — woodstockA lottery system "true" or otherwise is a horrible system to aspire to. Why should any child's opportunties within a public school system be left up to luck?
agreed, although it would be
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 20:29 — AngelaWagreed, although it would be a half-way less sucky chance than we have in place now in WCPSS.
Carson's latest notion is
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 18:15 — red_balloonCarson's latest notion is that Wakesfield is the new Enloe. I suppose it's the weather.
would you be ok with a
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 19:04 — carson79would you be ok with a system where the "best Wake has to offer" was offered in schools in only certain schools? and if so, how would you ensure EVERYONE's children (not just your own) got access to this "best Wake has to offer"?
"would you be ok with a
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 21:14 — Apexter"would you be ok with a system where the "best Wake has to offer" was
offered in schools in only certain schools? and if so, how would you
ensure EVERYONE's children (not just your own) got access to this "best
Wake has to offer"?"
No, I wouldn't. That's what we have now.
I think it's wrong to have a super-concentration of electives at Enloe while traditional high schools are restricted in their offerings. Enloe, in particular, seems to be a super-magnet. Normally magnets are expected to have a single theme --- technology, perhaps, or the arts. Enloe, by contrast, has heavy concentrations in arts, sciences, PLUS the IB program. I'd rather see a few more enhanced offerings at all high schools --- or, if we must maintain a magnet program, split it up into 3 schools in various areas of the county.
For all your inistence that Enloe is available to everyone in the county, even ignoring the fact that admittance is based upon a pseudo-lottery selection process, it's too far away to be a practical option for everyone. It's 20 miles away from my home (exactly; I just google mapped it.) As a parent of a high schooler, I'll tell you that it's tough to provide transportation to and from the extracurriculars such as twice-a-day band or football practices before school opens, daily band or sports practices after school, etc. even when the school is nearby and there are other kids in the same neighborhood to carpool with. I would not want to deny my son important opportunities like that just to get the academic offerings. They have been an enriching part of his high school experience and make him a more well-rounded individual (and college prospect.)
I agree.
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 21:30 — SDR256I think what the Enloe model has taught us (or taught me recently) is that if there ARE a few specialized programs in a school that is overall doing a good job teaching the middle, that some of the middle will move up. Isn't that what we want, what we need for America right now? And STOP all this nonesense of labeling kids by their economic status or how their teachers 'feel' about whether they may succeed, to determine whether they will go on to advanced programs or not. We need to pump the money into those advanced programs so that they're not saved as elite seats for only those who are 'sure to succeed'. Holy cow, if that had happened I shudder at the possible consequences. I was a flaky student who needed several, (many!) opportunities to fail, to explore, to do things a different way. School was not a good fit for me and I empathize with kids who are smart but for whom school fits like a borrowed suit. We cannot afford to lose those who think differently.
'..."best Wake has to offer"
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 20:35 — woodstock'..."best Wake has to offer" was offered in schools in only certain schools?'
"The best Wake has to offer" will vary depending on the student. For an at-risk student simply struggling to pass, "the best" may be an after school program and a mentor. For other students, it may be an honors or AP level course. So, we don't need cookie cutter schools. We need schools that have the resources that reflect the needs of the communities they serve. Individual schools may look different from a variety of perspectives, such as schedules, course offerings, hours of operations, and support systems, etc.
this is interesting but it
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 14:34 — carson79this is interesting but it is scary to me it sounds like you are saying that there will be uniform needs at a school based on the people living around it?
I think that like user said each school should offer those basic AP's. I don't think our communities are singular or uniform that they would have needs based on who lives around it necessarily.
It is scary to you because
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 15:04 — woodstockIt is scary to you because you bring a lot negative baggage to the conversation. You appear to have the perception that there are ill-intents. That is not the case. The offerings at any one school, of course, cannot be "uniform" because we all know any child can succeed, even the most at-risk. Being poor does not limit a child's ability to succeed.
However, there are areas in Wake County where there are no doubt a higher percentage of students facing challenges that most others do not (i.e., poverty, parents with drug or alcohol abuse problems, criminal activity, etc.). It would make sense to have a higher ratio of certain resources in those areas...like after school and weekend programs, mentors, computer labs for those without computers at home, tutoring assistance, counseling, and community efforts to get unengaged parents reengaged.
I don't think those things
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 16:45 — carson79I don't think those things should only be at high poverty schools. I think there are kids that could benefit from that at schools across the county.
That is precisely why I
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 17:59 — woodstockThat is precisely why I noted "a higher ratio of certain resources."
my point is that I don't
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 19:40 — carson79my point is that I don't think you have to create schools with high percentages of these kids in order to serve them. It doesn't work in the schools I've been to that are set up like that.
Actually Enloe IS open to
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 19:02 — carson79Actually Enloe IS open to the entire county - a portion of the seats are reserved for a TRUE lottery - can you say the same about Wakefield? And Leesville?
I really wish she had compared Knightdale to Wakefield - I think it would have been pretty interesting. Of course Enloe has the most it is supposed to be where you go if you are interested in programs with little interest so that those who want to take them can do so at a lower cost to the county.
I'm not sure if that was supposed to be some sort of put down - but my post was not mean to "provide information" (clearly) - it was my own take on things, which of course we are all allowed to post :)
why don't you discuss why you believe Wakefield is not "discriminatory" but Enloe is? how is admission to each one determined? I really would like to see your justification for denigrating enloe to the extent that you have.
ooo, a portion of Enloe
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 21:30 — loriacooo, a portion of Enloe seats reserved for a true lottery. Are you listening to yourself? Why is this OK?
There was a letter to the editor from someone who moved here, thinking they actually had a chance at attending the magnet schools. If there's not a way to EARN your way in (grades, auditions, etc) WHY do we have these?
The whole magnet program was not well thought out - no one considered the end game.
Imagine
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 21:38 — SDR256And you know it just struck me when you stated it this way. If the acceptance to this school has nothing to do with ability and these students represent a cross section of the county, then that suggests something really powerful. Given advanced programs to a collection of students with a mixed bag of skills, these students will really shine. Imagine what we could do in this county if we really just focused on academic achievement!
Yes
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 10:00 — lferreriYou have summed it up exactly. These are a cross section of kids but the ones in the "school within a school" are getting such a high level of resources and expectations that they really shine. If only we could get more people to understand this.
RIght - they tell the Enloe
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 21:44 — loriacRIght - they tell the Enloe kids every day how lucky and special they are... ie, high expectations. And the kids (well, the magnet kids, who are told this) deliver.
What if we did that at every school?
Only half the story
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 19:17 — Solon77You are missing a couple of things - the Enloe magnet kids get a few extra perks - private lounges with computers and other technological niceities (sp) , catered lunches so they can fit another AP course in, personal fitness trainers, and limo transportation so they can study during the morning and afternoon commute. Oh - I almost forgot - self defense, because as one mother on the news a couple weeks back put it - the students live in fear everyday. It has been entertaining reading the perceptions of the school and students. I have two at Enloe. The reality is - "it is what you make of it" There just happens to be a lot of kids that want to make the most of it. The teachers do not coddle the students, reality it is more like Marine boot camp. Students are expected to take ownership, be independent and self motivated. Somehow I doubt their performance is due to how lucky and special they are. Please also take a look at the AP utilization - Enloe has the highest in the county. Why isn't Knightdale higher and other schools higher ? I am sure if the base schools showed an increased utilization of base AP classes, then more could be added. Before going to Ligon and Enloe, my kids went to Leadmine Elementary - approx 50% ED, and yet EOG test scores for ED are some of the highest in the district. An yes a high % of ED bused in. Why success ? - because all parents participated in the school. If your school is not performing then take some ownership.
Before going to Ligon and
Sun, 01/31/2010 - 01:09 — jenmanBefore going to Ligon and Enloe, my kids went to Leadmine Elementary - approx 50% ED,
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you have any idea how LUCKY you were to even get into Ligon if your kids were not at a magnet elem? Your kids aren't at Ligon and Enloe because of how special they are. Chances are your kids are in Enloe because they happened to win the last 10% 'lottery'. Do you have any idea how many kids wanted to get into Enloe and Ligon but didn't win that 'lottery'?
Lead Mine
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 20:13 — lferreriI don't know when your children went to Lead Mine but ED kids do not have the high pass rates you are talking about. For instance, in 2006-2007, ED kids passed at a rate of 51.6% while NED kids passed at 83.7%. In 2007-2008 ED kids had an abysmal 39.5% pass rate with NED at 83.2%. The situation has improved since then (the ED rate in 2008-2009 was 65.1% and the NED rate was 91.3%) but there is still a big gap.
exactly
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 19:35 — loriachigh expectations, high parent participation - a recipe for success.
I think we can! why do you
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 16:48 — carson79I think we can! why do you think we don't
I"m glad!
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 17:01 — SDR256I'm glad you think we can! So do I! I just don't think we have to bus kids to do it.
do you think diversity is
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 19:43 — carson79do you think diversity is important in learning environments
YES
Sun, 01/31/2010 - 15:47 — SDR256YES, but academic performance trumps all.
"but my post was not mean to
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 20:29 — AngelaW"but my post was not mean to "provide information" (clearly) - it was my own take on things"
as if always the case, besides continually asking the same questions over and over, yet never providing your own answers/ideas of suggestions.
"Actually Enloe IS open to the entire county - a portion of the seats are reserved for a TRUE lottery - can you say the same about Wakefield? And Leesville?"
your ignorance, bias and prejudice against OTB schools is showing, if you were as involved in the school system as you say you would KNOW that neither Wakefield NOR Leesville are magnets therefor there is NO lottery system involved....simply assignment by nodes as done by the previous BoE, IF you have a problem with the make-up of the demographics of THOSE TWO schools, see Chucky D of G&P who ASSIGNS children there.
uh thanks for proving my
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 14:37 — carson79uh thanks for proving my point!!
I attended OTB schools so I am not sure how I would be ignorant or biased against them?
My point is that people call Enloe elitist and it is actually a lottery based system - while Wakefield is NOT. You must afford to live there to attend the school. And a move to proximity based assignment would NOT preserve the node system that recognizes diversity a la Chuck D. so again, I think we both agree and you have made my point.
I keep waiting for you to
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 16:19 — AngelaWI keep waiting for you to grow up and it doesn't happen.
I have NOT and will NOT ever prove your point, because your point doesn't exist!
The "lottery based" system to which you refer is based on a LIE, there is NO chance that "everyone" who applies will be accepted (and that's not based on volume and you know that-it's based on formulas!).
Thus discrimination in a PROGRAM (which Enloe is part of-the MAGNET system) not school specific, that SPECIFIC schools don't have based on Chuck's node specific assignment base.
now once again I am done with you and these blogs, they are the most unproductive, wasteful and hate-filled time-wasters lately that I have ever seen.
if you want to do something about the schools, then GO OUT and DO something about them, I did.
BYE!! On the off
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 16:52 — carson79BYE!!
On the off chance that you actually do keep blogging ;) I would also say that your entire rant against the lottery system for enloe proves my point - there is NO chance of getting into wakefield under a proximity based system so that is the true "discrimination" it seems. Or are you saying that Chuck's node policy assures diversity in assignment to wakefield that means it's not discriminatory? so I guess you support the balanced schools assignment.
I think plenty of us that blog also volunteer in the schools.
Last I heard, Wakefield and
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 19:13 — changewcpssLast I heard, Wakefield and Leesville were not magnet high schools, hence the difference.
precisely my point - Enloe
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 14:38 — carson79precisely my point - Enloe is open to the entire county, these schools are not.
Check the acceptance rate at
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 14:45 — red_balloonCheck the acceptance rate at Enloe vs. the other schools.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding -
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 16:53 — carson79Maybe I'm misunderstanding - isn't the acceptance rate at wakefield 0%? are other high schools accepting applications? bc otherwise is your point that enloe's rate is higher than other schools since they would all be zero?
Zero? I thought Wakefield
Sun, 01/31/2010 - 12:46 — red_balloonZero? I thought Wakefield accepted all that met the criteria (or close to all).
Only 10% of the seats at
Sun, 01/31/2010 - 00:22 — jenmanOnly 10% of the seats at Enloe are available through an actual lottery. It doesn't matter how you desperately you want to say that Enloe is available to everybody, it is not.
I'm sorry, but it is MORE
Sun, 01/31/2010 - 22:35 — carson79I'm sorry, but it is MORE available than any other school in Wake county friend!!
No matter how desperate and angry and jealous you are over your child not getting into the school you chose for him - this is the truth. Or do you disagree?
Carson - Your constant
Mon, 02/01/2010 - 09:33 — red_balloonCarson - Your constant misinterpretations of Jenman's posts are pitiful. I suggest you read Jenman's posts before letting your imagination run amok. I think you can peddle your agenda without making a parody of yourself.
"So those of us not worthy
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 14:18 — user12345"So those of us not worthy of magnets should be happy w/ our crumbs?"
Personally, I don't mind the fact that a single school, Enloe, offers a few more select AP courses few others would want ... my real concern is the other 22 non-magnets HSs ... see Table 4: No. of AP courses offered: Knightdale 11, Leesville 18, Green Hope 22, Wakefield 26, Enloe 29 ... why the difference in the non-magnets from 11 to 26?
Wakefield had 558 AP students who were offered 26 AP courses, Broughton's 624 AP students were only offered 19 and Green Hope's 633 AP students were only offered 22 AP courses. What is so special about Wakefield's kids (Bob?) that they get a wider selection for fewer kids?
..http://www.wcpss.net/evaluation-research/reports/2009/0928ap_09.pdf
So...
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 14:34 — Bob_SconceSize. Wakefield is the largest school in the county and possibly in the state. There are more students eligible to take AP courses (whether or not they actually take them), so it offers more AP classes. I'd be interested in seeing if the raw numbers pan out the same year-after-year or if 08-09 was just an abberation.
I agree with you, though, that I don't care about one school offering a lot; I care about all the others offering fewer.
I was surprised, though, to learn that there were 26 different AP classes. When I was in HS, we had something like 8.
"I was surprised, though, to
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 14:58 — user12345"I was surprised, though, to learn that there were 26 different AP classes. When I was in HS, we had something like 8. "
Bob, actually the Wake table shows there are 37 AP courses offered even though I only counted 21 in list?? Looks like there might be 50 possible AP course on the AP site ... for Fairfax, VA fans they had 15,000 students take AP course, Wake had 1/3 the number - 5000 ... that might be significant ..
...http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/AP-test-scores-rise-in-Fairfax-schools-82978652.html
I don't have the data in
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 15:52 — Eric_BI don't have the data in front of me, but from what I recall, Charlotte-Mecklenburg also has many more students take AP tests than Wake despite having a smaller student population.
What is up with Wake? Why does it seem like so few AP courses are offered compared with other districts?
Why does it seem like so few
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 19:45 — shank56Why does it seem like so few AP courses are offered compared with other districts?
Because our funding per student is much less than other districts. Wake County CC- are you reading and listening??
Anecdotally I would say that
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 18:41 — carson79Anecdotally I would say that is not what I have experienced or anywhere close to it - what districts are you talking about?
I know some districts pay for the tests for students so it increases participation, not sure about Wake.
It cost $85 per test ...
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 16:10 — user12345It cost $85 per test ... doesn't the school pay that? ... maybe they don't have the money? so limit the number of AP classes ... also, AP teachers cost more and are harder to keep .... could be a limiting factor
WCPSS doesn't pay for AP
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 18:30 — shank56WCPSS doesn't pay for AP tests. It's up ito the students, though I think those in need may be able to get some funds through their school. (not sure how that is funded)
Seems I remember reading that Guilford Co. pays for AP tests- Charlotte Meck may as well.
"WCPSS doesn't pay for AP
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 19:51 — user12345"WCPSS doesn't pay for AP tests"
Maybe that is why places like Garner have such low numbers ...
Could be...
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 21:53 — Bob_SconceSo, the main reason to take the test is to get college credit. It may be that students at Garner don't go to college as much, and so don't take the test as much.
Or it may be that parents
Sun, 01/31/2010 - 15:36 — SouthEastWakeMomOr it may be that parents with children likely to take AP courses opt out of Garner HS (and others) for magnets, charters, private, etc. because the AP offerings are inadequate. A veritable catch-22.
Another VERY
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 22:53 — shank56Another VERY IMPORTANT reason to take the the AP course is that more points are given towards your GPA vs a regular course. ( ie., 5 points for an A in AP US History vs. 4 pts for an A in Honors US History) . This is more important than the AP exam result/score, IMO. Just wait until your kid has to play this game for college.
For some of you youngsters, this is the basis for "weighted" vs "unweighted " GPAS.
AP and Honors taken to raise GPA
Sat, 01/30/2010 - 19:35 — Solon77This is why so many Enloe kids get into Carolina vs other Wake County schools. My daughter has a 4.2 at Enloe and her class rank is around the top 40%. One of her friends goes to Sanderson, has a 4.0 and class rank is in the top 2%. Regarding the number of AP classes offered - is it the chicken or the egg ? Enloe has the highest utilization per class. Knightdale, Leesville , and others are significantly lower. So why would we want to add more AP classes when the utilization of the existing AP classes is so low ?