I'll go into more detail later, but here's a quick update on Wake County's efforts to increase participation in advanced math classes in middle school.
Ken Branch, senior director for middle school programs, said there's been an increase in seventh-graders taking Pre-Algebra and eighth-graders taking Algebra I since this set of revised middle school math placement criteria was implemented in the spring. The new criteria came after last year's SAS EVAAS report indicated many Algebra I ready kids in Wake, particularly minorities, weren't being placed.
But several questions were asked at Thursday's economically disadvantaged student performance task force meeting about why teachers are still not letting some students into these advanced courses.
Branch explained that data wasn't stressed as much in the past for placement decisions so teacher professional judgement was often used. Professional judgement is still a factor but use of data, particularly EVAAS, is stressed now.
Branch said that teachers must now document in writing why they're not recommending that a student be placed in Pre-Algebra or Algebra I if EVAAS indicates they're ready.
Branch said there are compelling reasons why teachers might not recommend placement even though the EVAAS data says otherwise.
School board member John Tedesco, chairman of the task force, said he was concerned about professional judgement bypassing the EVAAS data. He was joined in by committee members complaining that students are still being denied the chance to take these advanced classes.
It's a bid deal as Branch said that getting students successfully through Algebra I in eight-grade puts them on a path for success through high school, college and life.
Marvin Connelly, assistant superintendent for student support services, said that professional judgement was left in the criteria as a way to encourage teachers to send kids in to these math classes that the data indicated might not be ready. But he said the reality is that kids are being excluded based on allowing professional judgement.
Tedesco asked staff to provide detailed information by school on how many students are in Pre-Algebra and Algebra I and how many were not placed despite the EVAAS data. He said they'll continue to ride staff hard on this issue.
Comments
Actually, EVAAS might consistently _understimate_ potential
Mon, 08/02/2010 - 10:37 — dseibertFrom a previous quote:
"Of 18,670 8th grade Algebra students with a 70% or above probability of success, 95.9% passed the EOC in the year SAS studied. It's on page 12 of the SAS report."
As a statistician myself, that indicates that the EVAAS model likely significantly underestimates the children's potential for success - either that, or the teachers' inputs are adding value (independent of SES). If EVAAS were accurate, and they were taking the cutoff at 70% probability of success and selecting students randomly from that sample, I would expect the success rate to be much lower than 96% (more like 85% or so unless we're in a Lake Wobegon situation where almost all the children with 70+% success rate are in the top few percent).
BTW, this seems consistent with the rest of the EVAAS data - for almost every predicted achievement bin (mostly 10% ranges), the students performed at the top of the predicted range, or even slightly above.
Maybe the teacher input (without SES) isn't so bad?
Relief
Mon, 08/02/2010 - 00:13 — SDR256Although all the aggravating details have not yet seen the light of day, I am relieved and deeply grateful for the determination of some key people so that we can enjoy finally, finally turning the page to a discussion based on data and a child's potential for achievement rather than arbitrary characteristics like the color of their skin or their economic status. Anyone who reads this and, in the twisted logic of wcpss politics, thinks it is somehow racist has not read the sas report or seen the horrifying data that shows how the previous system was miserably off course in an ironic race based way. So sad given all their good intentions. And yet so unforgivably and lethally damaging to those they'd hoped to help. Thank you so much - and you know who you are.
Mr. Hui - Thank you
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 03:27 — TrailerParkGirlThank you for finding room for not just one, but three posts about the Task Force and important educational issues facing Wake County.
Branch said that teachers
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 15:07 — user12345Branch said that teachers must now document in writing why they're not recommending that a student be placed in Pre-Algebra or Algebra I if EVAAS indicates they're ready.
Given that teachers appear to have poor record (and possibly racially bias) of who will succeed compared to the computer program output, I am wondering why teachers are still in the picture at all? Let the computer program do the placement and give the teacher back some time.
There's another side...
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 16:04 — FrabjousSometimes teachers recommend students for classes who do well in class, but don't necessarily test well. Will EVAAS find those students?
That is one problem with the
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 16:57 — red_balloonThat is one problem with the new criteria. Certainly WCPSS should look for "compelling reasons". But not to exclude students. It should be with the intent of including students excluded by EVAAS.
A tough call. One solution
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 17:27 — CaryCurmudgeonA tough call. One solution would be to only allow teacher input in cases where EVAAS does not suggest a student promotion (and to negate teacher input when it does). Some students or their parents may not want a higher-level track because they don't plan on going beyond high school. Personally, I think eighth grade is way to young to make a decision like that, but as someone who has strongly advocated for a votech alternative to college prep, I think this could be argued either way.
Per the presentation by WFRMS
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 01:44 — TrailerParkGirlThey met with the students that EVAAS predicted to succeed but had not been placed and their families. They explained what moving to the higher-level track meant in terms of extra effort and expectations (these students were skipping Pre-Alegbra so had to catch up on top of being in a more rigorous course). They all wanted to take the opportunity for the higher-level track.
Remember the students who were not properly placed are disproportionately low-income and minority, but they are not low-achieving students. We all have to work really hard on not confusing the two. Votech is a needed alternative for some students, but I would not anticipate that there would be many cases where students who have shown and are told and encouraged that they have the ability to be on a college-bound track would opt out of that opportunity. I didn't know too many lower-income people that didn't desire to significantly increase their earning potential given the opportunity, in fact, I can't recall any.
We need to think through the reasons why some students don't plan on going beyond HS. Is it that a) they truly have no interest in what that offers (i.e. their life's dream truly is to be a mechanic because they are passionate about cars, which does not require a college education) or b) they desire what a beyond HS education could get them, but do not see it as a viable option for them due to barriers (like oh say not being placed on the college bound track for one). We certainly need Votech for the a's, but I suspect there are many b's out there.
Money, scholarships and
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 13:36 — DrActualFactualMoney, scholarships and financing can also be a big barrier. Talking about how some universities have programs to provide stipends to help students into further education can be an eye opener to kids that want that dream but can't see a way to finance/achieve it.
Definitely!
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 14:03 — dseibertGive those kids a reason to work. If you come from a poor family, grants are a lot easier to get, so college is not going to cost you very much. State schools are very cost-effective, and even the top schools are often affordable if you can get in.
From what I've heard, the biggest problem for students who don't come from families where college is expected is lack of family support, both before college and after they start, so that message (plus more basic college information) should be going to the family as well.
Brilliant
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 09:55 — Bob_SconceWhat a great way to motivate those kids.
(and, no, I'm not being sarcastic.)
Phase 1
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 16:21 — lferreriAccording to the information they have given us, in Phase 1 (which used to be the only criteria used), a student with either a high EOG score or 90% or higher on class tests plus a teacher's recommendation could be placed in an advanced class. (In other words, one bad EOG score didn't have to exclude the student.) The advantage of EVAAS is that it uses multiple EOG test scores so that one bad score doesn't have as much impact. I guess a student who scores poorly on class tests and multiple EOGs would have a problem but that was true under the old system as well. It was never enough just to have a teacher recommendation. The way the system is currently set up, no student who would have been included under the old system will be excluded.
totally agree
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 15:25 — carson79All the stuff below this is just noise.........the decisions are made by TEACHERS, not administrators - if all these complainers want to change the decisions they either need to change the criteria as you have suggested, or else their issue is with the Teachers, not the administrators they continue to bash.....
Where is the outcry against the teachers? or at least the recognition like you have done that this is an issue at the personal individual decision-making level?
Leadership
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 03:23 — TrailerParkGirlLeadership, tone at the top, the buck stops here, institutional culture happens top down, etc., just like the reasons that the CEO of BP just got the ax. With the management role, title and office comes Accountability and Responsibility.
The teachers didn't have the data. The only data they were ever given was generated by Central Office (not the teachers). Central Office (not teachers) made the decision NOT to use EVAAS even though it was FREE because DPI had purchased for all the LEAs. Then Central Office (not teachers) defended their decision not to use EVAAS with a report done by Holdzkum's department in March 2009. Del Burns (not teachers) received the SAS report showing there were indications of issues in June and did not share the information with the Board. It took BOE action to get Central Office to even start using EVAAS. Ms. Walters requested a report showing verification that they new policy is being followed - Central Office's (not teacher's) response was No because they are not required to produce a report that does not already exist. Well, of course it doesn't exist - these are New guidelines.
Where is the accountability? Where is the acceptance of responsibility? Where is the transparency? Where's the urgency?
More than a year has been wasted already. At this point "we'll get back to you on that" is no longer an acceptable answer.
As far decisions made by the teachers - why do you suppose certain students disproportionately were not recommended? Could it be due to assumptions made about educational views of different races and biases because they fall in a group (or look like those assumed to fall in a group) automatically labeled "At Risk" or "Higher Needs"? Given this environment is so indoctrinated in the "At Risk" based on demographics model and racial stereotyping, it is sad, but not hard to imagine, that bias occurs.
Absolutely
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 09:44 — lferreri"At this point 'we'll get back to you on that' is no longer an acceptable answer."
This is key in my opinion. School is starting soon. We need the placement information now because, if the right placements aren't being made, we will go another year with hundreds of students denied access to the advanced math that they are capable of learning. To me, this is unconscionable.
School is starting soon?
Sun, 08/01/2010 - 00:31 — g88ky07School started weeks ago, for many of us who would rather say, school is starting soon!
Hmm...
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 16:05 — Bob_SconceInteresting point. In general, teachers are seen as heroes and nobody likes to place blame at their feet, even though they play such a huge part in the education of their students. Administrators on the other hand, well, the word itself is almost a curse word.
Why are you wanting to blame
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 15:51 — red_balloonWhy are you wanting to blame teachers? Did a teacher in a MS set the math placement criteria? What's the role of the E&R Asst. Supdt. and the CAO? Do these people take directions from teachers? Does a teacher dictate priorities and resource allocations? Did the teachers get help in taking borderline cases to the finish line?
Your dismissive attitude is priceless. At least it demonstrates where your concerns do not lie.
Personal attacks aside
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 16:19 — carson79Personal attacks aside (don't you get tired of that?) I am not trying to dismiss anything - I thought that what was being said is that even when the criteria are adjusted, the minority kids are still not getting placed in higher level math....and yet nobody is mentioning that teachers are making the decisions?
Seems odd to me but not given the source of course.
Here's something you might
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 16:53 — red_balloonHere's something you might find interesting: Compare Pre-Algebra placement with and without EVAAS (say, between 2009-10 and 2010-11). I hope Keung can post those figures. Once you review the figures, let me know if you still believe the teachers are to blame.
Yes, that would be very useful
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 17:31 — dseibertI'd also like to find out whether the number of students is limited by the number of teachers available. What fraction of algebra-qualified teachers' time was spent teaching lower subjects? If that's not close to 0, the solution is free and clear. If it's not, the solution is still clear, it's just not free.
You raise an interesting
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 18:54 — red_balloonYou raise an interesting point. However, there is a remote possibility that lower tracking in mathematics for a large number of students resulted in some MOE being diverted from teaching mathematics. If that isn't the case, then I would expect MS principals to be screaming for more resources to teach Algebra. If they don't ask for more resources, then either we always had the resources to handle larger numbers or they are being forced to do more with the same.
true
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 19:57 — dseibertCould be, I really haven't speculated on that. I guess I'm more interested in finding a solution than figuring out why we're here. Knowing whether we don't have enough resources to do the teaching, or whether we do but we're using them on less important things (e.g., more advanced HS students, who should be much better prepared to work their own than middle schoolers), is the first step in fixing this.
BTW, if nobody can answer this, then that tells that nobody is seriously trying to fix the problem.
....
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 16:17 — SideburnsRuby Payne model perhaps? Google it.
How many years did Wake County administration support teaching this model? Could that be a/the reason teachers are expected/trained to have low expectations for low-income children?
not all due to teachers
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 15:46 — dseibertWho decides how many spaces to allocate for each course? That should be an administrator decision, not a teacher decision. I'd expect that teacher decisions are influenced by the number of slots available.
I'd be very careful about saying that teachers decided to hold children back. Teachers usually like to teach the more advanced courses, so it's in their interest to have more children in advanced math, not fewer. What's their motivation? Administrators would have more motivation, since they have the job of conserving resources.
Absolutely I agree with you
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 16:05 — carson79Absolutely I agree with you - I just think the blame is being laid at administrator's feet by people who are trumpeting their involvement but aren't telling us why this is the administrator's fault. I'm meaning after the criteria has been updated, unless they believe it is still inadequate.
I guess I am trying to say we seem to still be missing a giant part of the puzzle as you indicated - is it institutional racism? Are there other factors? Or is it as simple and easy as Venita Peyton describes? And if she's right, then what's going on?
outcry
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 15:40 — loriacThe SAS report identified a troubling gap - that minorities were under-represented in 8th grade math by a significant factor (20%).
WHATEVER process they are using - there's a big problem. To fix it starts at the top. They have the ability to use EVAAS data, and were directed to use it for math placement. If the teachers aren't doing this, the superintendent should be asking why. The BOE is rightly looking at the superintendent to answer this question.
I agree
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 16:06 — carson79Maybe we don't have all the facts - but I thought the teachers WERE now using EVAAS data? I'm no expert though.
Maybe what the ED kid needed
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 15:23 — red_balloonMaybe what the ED kid needed wasn't a NED kid but a teacher to teach and a system to give him/ her a chance. As an additional measure, pull out the two distracting kids (from your wife's example) and surely you have a chance at educating ED kids. And we can achieve this while still allowing GSIW, CCCAAC, and NAACP to cry hoarse about SES engineering.
Thanks, I Think
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 14:27 — MissVKeung, the tenor of yesterday's discussion was laced with the frustration we have with Wake Co school administrators who continue limiting student enrollment into higher level math. They insist on 'massaging' the data based on whether THEY THINK a child will be successful because "the teachers know the students". We are blessed to have Barbara Walters and Dr. Shila Nordone as parent/student advocates who are working hard to eliminate this continuing problem. Visit barbarastakeonwake.blogspot.com for clarity.
Please ask Mr. John Wall (Principal at North Garner MS) and Ms. Elaine Hanzer (Wake Forest-Rolesville MS) why they are comfortable with giving ALL of their students an equal chance for success. When The Old North State Medical Society (the oldest organization of black doctors in the country) questions why fewer minorities are entering medical school, and the NC School of Science and Math (Durham) have lagging minority enrollment, it can be traced back to a child not being on the right college track.
Since we are so dangerously close to the beginning of the next school year, it will take a MIRACLE to insure that we don't lose another year's worth of students who could lose out by not being on a more deserving track of study. - Venita Peyton
Certainly one of item of concern
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 03:37 — TrailerParkGirlCertainly one item of concern was the notion that a "compelling reason" for overriding the EVAAS prediction for Algebra I placement could be that the student had not taken Pre-Algebra. Considering the reason the student had not taken Pre-Algebra could be because they were inappropriately not placed on the higher track to begin with in 6th grade, I find this train of thought troubling.
That is troubling, I
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 17:22 — jenmanThat is troubling, I agree. Especially since WF-R showed that with the right interventions the students could catch up.
Every time a new HS block
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 15:06 — DrActualFactualEvery time a new HS block starts represents another lost math opportunity for many of our students. If they didn't get what they needed in MS to get on track for HS/college track there is little time left to squeeze in the subject matter before it is too late. I think one of the reasons the system is MUM on the "correction" to the matter is because not only did they sit on the report, I suspect part of their "solution" has resulted in many HS students being deprived the math classes they could take because teachers have been pulled in to teach the other sections of math instead of hiring enough math teachers. They may well be robbing Peter to pay Paul even though both sets of kids(ED/NED) qualify for math--ALL of which is improper. I wish the NAACP and ACLU could just compel WCPSS to hire math teachers, get the DPI to waive requirements if needed to deliver the math curriculum needed to allow a slew of kids to get what they need for college. Ongoing thanks to Barbara, Shila, and Venita for their work. This is a student achievement issue that the entire existing board should be able to agree on and affect change but I fear the political promises to keep the budget low has prevented this--hence my plea to the attorney/groups.
I wouldn't panic too much
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 16:36 — dseibertI had friends who got to MIT without any calculus (in some cases, needing remedial algebra to catch up), and they still did OK. They key is to learn to work - as long as our students don't stop working, they'll do fine in the end.
That being said, we should keep the pressure on the school board to allocate enough resources to fix this. They might be able to get a short-term fix by moving some HS math teachers down to the middle schools, at least temporarily, and hiring a few more MS math teachers. You're right, though, they may not want to spend money on those students unless they're forced too.
Wasted opportunities.
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 17:33 — DrActualFactualIn a nutshell, they need to spend money to hire more math teachers at the HS level to get the kids "missed" back on track to go to college. Also, they need to offer the kids the AP courses they were not allowed to take because teachers were pulled to teach lower level math courses. Both sets of kids need to be taught. To underserve any student at the level they should be taught is a disservice and wastes the kids time and effort. If a kid is in the top 10 out of 580 kids and straight A's you'd think they could muster up some classes....guess we need to trade spots. No panic----we'll just stop at calculus, but interestingly even if they take an entire year of calc ab/bc they can only take one ap calc exam (all that too, could have been rectified if they'd have kept us on our schedule). Universities will only take a specified number of AP courses anyway, and I'm in no way panicked--I just hate to see injustice intentional or otherwise. As kids like to say...who needs math anyway.
Absolutely. And who better
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 17:00 — red_balloonAbsolutely. And who better to help keep the pressure than GSIW, CCCAAC, and NAACP.
Who better?
Mon, 08/02/2010 - 01:51 — SDR256Go do a search and find out who fought to bring the sas report and evaas light. Discover how ccaacc resisted the information, assuming it came from political bias. Discover how gsiw cemented that political stance by making it all about diversity at any cost -even at the cost of the education of the kids they claim to help. All for a political foothold. We need to solve this, folks, and omitting people from your meeting invitation lists is not the way to build apolitical discussion and no way for bridge building. I'd say all of us, and especially anyone whose face has been on tv or quoted in the paper - needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask whether they've been as open as they should be to information from the ' other side'. This report came out a year ago at the Friends for Diversity meeting, w/ the mayor of Raleigh in attendance as well as many social and political leaders from the 'blind to anything but diversity' crowd. None of those leaders - Brannon, wright, dennliger and others had the time or inclination to stay and hear the information. Ann dennlinger practically spat at me when I invited her to stay to hear this - another side to the story. So much for WEP 's (aka the old gsiw) unbiased position. Very deaf to all other positions. Is it politically incorrect to assume every child should
be expected to achieve? And the children have lost another year as a result. Politics.....BA HUMBUG!
You are joking right? The
Fri, 07/30/2010 - 21:51 — aquaman4life68You are joking right? The NAACP to put pressure on them to do this. Barber can't have it both ways, although if given the chance, HE WOULD...LOL
He was the very one that stood up in a media conference back in February of this year (2010) and said that he (NAACP) wanted the Chapel-Hill Carrboro school system to spend more money on closing the achievement gap instead of spending more money on additional AP courses.
See, it's circumstances like this, where Barber shows how hypocritical he is when he speaks. Yes, make sure all kids that have the ability take the correct math courses when they are ready. NO child should be denied that. Well, if you increase the number of kids taking the advanced math courses, well I'd say there will be an increase in the need for AP courses will occur as well. But. then when it comes time for the kids to take those AP course, they might not be able to, because Barber wanted less funding for AP courses to close the achievement gap.
Yes, I know he has not made an issue of this, YET, but I'm just pointing out how this man talks out of both sides of his mouth and why his opinion has no value to it. He wants to fight a battle , but then he will run over to another "similar battle" and start conflict there as well. He thinks, that he has the authority and the mindset to find the solution, however his solutions to both fights ends up canceling each other out and hurting the ones he is fighting for.
Barber was right
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 12:04 — dseibertThere are PLENTY of AP math courses, so we could easily shift resources from those to "closing the gap" without hurting the students. I love math - I'm a theoretical particle physicist, and took 2 calculus classes in HS along with independent study in number theory and a few other areas I thought were interesting. My children have the chance to take many more formal AP math classes in HS than I did, so I don't see how we're even close to cutting AP math classes to the point that our children won't be really well prepared for anything they want to do. Also, by the time kids get to that level, the ones that are interested in math-intensive professions can probably do almost as well with independent study as with a formal class, as they have learned how to learn math.
Middle school algebra, on the other hand, does seem to be a problem. Other areas, like science and history, are also low on resources compared to AP math. Because of that, I would say that following Barber's suggestion would not necessarily result in a need for many more AP math seats, so it's not hypocritical at all.
Let me clarify, and maybe I
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 16:46 — aquaman4life68Let me clarify, and maybe I didn't make it clear. I wasn't referring to math specifically as the AP courses that could be cut back, I was referencing, to what Barber was saying Chapel Hill should do in cutting AP courses in general (English, math, history, etc.). I was just pointing out, Barber was calling to cut AP courses in one county, where he is on the band wagon to have more kids take advance math courses here in Wake especially in 8th grade, in order for them to be on the college track.
If that happens now...in a few years when those kids are Juniors and Seniors in high school, there will be more of a need for additional AP courses to support the need of the students. That will be rightfully so and the county will hopefully fund and provide it.
I just find it funny how, his actions for what he feels right for one county to do, can and will affect the same type of kids he is "suppose to help" here in Wake.
So in other words...he wants to cut AP courses in Chapel Hill, but he will be the first "blow hard" to fuss here in Wake if Wake doesn't provide enough AP courses for "his targeted student". He is very hypocritical individual.
absolutely not hypocritical
Sun, 08/01/2010 - 15:40 — dseibertBarber is right - basics come first. That's what I always told my students, and what I tell my own children.
If you take a kid out of Algebra or Pre-algebra when they are ready for it, and stick them in another math class that's below their level, you're wasting their time, and they'll never get that time back. If they can't get an AP class that they want, they can do it as independent study (they should be ready for that by the time they're ready to take AP classes), or they can find another course where they'll learn something useful, but they won't be wasting their time.
If Wake is offering AP classes but black children are under-represented (for example, because teachers are not recommending qualified black children for those courses), then Barber will have every right to complain about it. You would do the same if your kids didn't get in, right?
Well, we will have to agree
Sun, 08/01/2010 - 16:10 — aquaman4life68Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. You don't see my point and it seems no matter what Barber does, you will support that and not see how hypocritical this man is. that's fine, we all have our opinions on this subject.
one last try
Sun, 08/01/2010 - 18:18 — dseibertSuppose you had two children of your own. One needs remedial math, and they're cutting that. The other has just been kept out of Algebra, even though his test scores and grades were above the cutoff. Do you think it would be hypocritical if you suggested that there were too many AP courses being offered, and that the school district needed to move those resources and focus on the basics?
I didn't think you, or anyone else, would feel that position was hypocritical. Why then do you think Barber is being hypocritical?
one last try
Sun, 08/01/2010 - 18:18 — dseibertSuppose you had two children of your own. One needs remedial math, and they're cutting that. The other has just been kept out of Algebra, even though his test scores and grades were above the cutoff. Do you think it would be hypocritical if you suggested that there were too many AP courses being offered, and that the school district needed to move those resources and focus on the basics?
I didn't think you, or anyone else, would feel that position was hypocritical. Why then do you think Barber is being hypocritical?
The HS my kids go to lost
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 14:42 — DrActualFactualThe HS my kids go to lost 9 teachers resulting in 42 fewer sections taught. Although you did not experience this programming change does not negate the fact that we did. If there were 30 to 40 kids in each class, well you can do the math==lost opportunities for many more kids than just mine. Your school lost AP Biology and French and perhaps other programming as well. None of the reductions help the students. But budget cuts have consequences. IMO Del should have used the stimulus money to keep the teachers as long as possible especially since he had the SAS EVAAS report. Will my kids lose out for having to sacrific AP Stats and not taking math as long and as early as I'd like; hopefully not. Students are often encouraged to take college calc anyway. IMO all kids should be taught to the next level, whatever it is and schools and communities need to enable that to occur. The right to an optimum education doesn't change in my mind if you are rich or poor, ahead or behind in the educational spectrum. AP courses are as important to the progress of the kids that need them as remedial courses are for the kids that need them--tradeoffs in programming don't ADVANCE anyone.
basics first
Sun, 08/01/2010 - 15:53 — dseibertI'd still say that basics should always come before AP courses. If you really want AP-level courses around here, you have a HUGE number of options - independent study, Wake Tech classes, NC State classes, etc. If you don't have the basics, none of those are really an option.
I tell my own kids to think about independent study, especially in math - that's a great way to get ready for college, since you can handle anything once you've learned how to do that.
BTW, I'd be shocked if anyone lost much by not taking AP statistics, since that's not really a critical course in any math-intensive discipline. The impression my kids had is that it's the course that people take to get an easy AP math credit when they're not ready for calculus. My daughter took the course, so I know what's covered, and that's what it seemed like to me as well - the class that my friends in social sciences took to get some rudimentary knowledge of statistical analysis, so they could explain what the results from their SAS packages.
Given their professed
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 08:34 — red_balloonGiven their professed concern for F&R children, I am troubled by the silence of GSIW, CCCAAC, and NAACP on this issue.
Puzzled
Sat, 07/31/2010 - 10:30 — Dove314When was the last time you saw the RNC praising the actions of the Obama even when they agreed? Unless a political supporter of a sitting political body, praise for something that political body is doing is much more rare than criticism of actions which are disliked. Silence is usually about as far as an opposition is willing to go.
It is a bit more troubling that the administration is not being more proactive in response to the BoE's push on this. There would seem to be zero incentive for WCPSS administration to not have made such a seemingly straightforward change with the BoE's clear demand for action.
So...
Sun, 08/01/2010 - 21:24 — Bob_SconceSo, let me get this straight: your defense of GSIW and the other groups is that they're acting with the same integrity and principle that we've come to expect from our political parties -- that they're only concerned with the power that comes from getting their folks into office, that they're willing to defend dishonesty and raid the public treasury to hold onto that power and that they are inherently unworthy of trust or respect?
Organization with a definite bias
Mon, 08/02/2010 - 02:35 — Dove314Just an organization with a clear bias, of which there are many including political parties as a ready example.