Should Wake County's common early release days be held on Wednesdays or Fridays for the 2010-11 school year?
School administrators are recommending holding the six common early release days on Wednesdays, similar to what's being done this year. The other option presented at Tuesday's student achievement committee meeting is to hold them on Fridays.
The full board could vote on the issue Tuesday.
As you guys recall, school ends 2 1/2 hours early on early release days. The days were standardized a few years ago to provide consistency.
In addition to grumbling about releasing students an hour early on most Wednesdays for the PLT time this year, there were also some parental grumbling about the early release days being in the middle of the week.
Administrators said at the committee meeting that using Wednesdays would give schools the flexibility to have staff meet after students leave.
If Fridays are used, administrators said they wouldn't require schools to keep teachers in those afternoons.
Interim Superintendent Donna Hargens said they're recommending Wednesdays but recognize that Fridays "may be more family friendly."
Board member Kevin Hill isn't on the student achievement committee. But he attended Tuesday and was asked by the committee members which day he preferred.
Hill backed Wednesday, saying he wouldn't want "to take a car off the assemlby line built on a Friday."
Click here for a handout listing the options and the potential dates for the early release days. The sheet lists an option 3 which calls for no early release days, something the committee members said isn't an option.
UPDATE
The board voted 6-2 on May 18 to approve the use of Fridays for the early-release days. Only board members Kevin Hill and Keith Sutton voted no.
Comments
Enough already
Fri, 05/14/2010 - 00:21 — openmindWhy is it that all people ever want to do in here is bash the teachers? I would love to see some of the people that continuously bash the teachers inside of a classroom. Just one week please, of you working with student discipline, creating lesson plans, bringing home papers to grade and dealing with the other concerns like parents. I am not a teacher so I have no bias that way. I am just tired of all the people bashing them. I realize that that they have chosen to enter that career. But at the same time, I don't hear people bashing your career. Let the teachers do what they went to school for....TEACH, and enough with all the other BS.
Half days are a waste of time in the first place...
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 22:21 — raleighlauraIt is a lot of time and effort to get a kid to school to then be released at 1:15. I'd rather see only four half days and one more full teacher workday added to the calendar because then you can plan to do something productive with those days.
If we must have these half days, the very least we can do is make them on Fridays so parents can plan trips and events more easily. The idea that we can't trust teachers to stay 6 extra Friday afternoons is just plain nuts. Teachers will stay if they are needed- they usually do. It's the wasted time with the extra adminstrative meetings they resent. Perhaps we need to look at streamlining those.
I agree with you
Fri, 05/14/2010 - 00:23 — aquaman4life68I agree with you raleighlaura,
Teachers will stay at school on Fridays and it really won't be any extra time, they will still get out pretty much at the same time that they normally would if the early release was changed to Friday. I don't get the comment from the school officials about the "moral thing". Teachers are there in the afternoons, regardless what day of the week it is, and if it early release or not. As my family members and friends that are teachers told me, staff development is required so teachers and teachers cannot take these days off just to be 'sick" to start the weekend early. Teachers are much more professional than that, and I do not appreciate people saying teachers would do such a thing. I personally think that using Friday as an early release option could be a great option. I think it would be well received by parents, since working parents can probably take off early on a Friday than they can on a Wednesday or any other day of the work week.
Teachers do not mind the staff development, however the increase in added administrative documentation and paperwork is getting out hand. Wake Co. is having teachers record assessments in 2, 3 or 4 different places and they all say the same thing. WCPSS has teachers fill out numerous forms when there's nothing really different from one form from the others. Many of the forms could be condensed into one form. Teachers are also concerned with the increase in committee meeting times, staff meeting times, etc. Several teachers I have spoken with, have expressed a concern with why are the schools having many meetings? Often, the school admin., has to "make up something" to discuss and have a meeting ...they are having to make up something to put on a form and paper saying what the topic is , the presentation ,etc. I am sure that's one of the "busy" tasks of the area supt. out there, all just to support their existence.
I think the needless paperwork, forms and meeting should be looked into and evaluated. Do they really need to ALL of those things, when it can be combined in to just a few!?!?!
Friday's
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 17:46 — sam123456If they have to do this, Friday's work best for the kids and the families. We are the tax paying customers so our needs should be considered as primary. The teachers have to be there regardless so I don't understand how morale would be hurt.
Concern with Friday
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 18:24 — Solon77Concern with Friday is parents will pull their kids out for a long weekend. This is a parent's choice. However, in doing so will that same parent declare an unexcused absence or make up an excuse such as sickness, doctor's appointment....... to gain an excused absence. With an excused absence the student has the opportunity to make up the work without impacting his/her grade. With an unexcused absence the student does not. A high level of these "excused" absences impacts the teacher and the class causing extra work and disruption. When your actions impact others - then it becomes an issue. The theme is ringing loud and clear - it is all about me. There use to be a time when the education system was held in high regard by all member's of the community. I guess like everything else these days there is a picking and choosing of values that suit an individual need and not the whole.
Solon77 -- data please
Fri, 05/14/2010 - 12:26 — sam123456Solon77, what data do you have to support your statement. I have no plans to pull my kids out for a long weekend if the days were changed to Friday. I don't understand your argument and resent the assertion that "The theme is ringing loud and clear - it is all about me."
...
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 12:06 — SideburnsWow, apparently WCPSS teachers aren't very dedicated.
Aren't they discussing just 6 days -- not every week like the ridiculous Wacky Wednesdays?
Question Keung
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 11:57 — Dove314There were a couple of other items on the Student Achievement agenda that related to another blog post this week. Anything on the following, likely more important discussions?
They did the statewide
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 12:24 — KeungHui (author)They did the statewide presentation but got backlogged on the other stuff. That's for the next meeting.
Use them as intended.
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 10:17 — dubiousThe original purpose of teacher workdays and early release days were to give teachers adequate time to perform the ever-increasing administrative documentation and data entry required for each and every student. Once upon a time, all teachers had to maintain was a written grade book and written report cards went home once a quarter. No longer. Now that classes are routinely over 30 students, this takes more time than ever. Why not schedule them when they are needed, rather than convenient.
Administrators said at the
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 10:04 — JSBinNCAdministrators said at the committee meeting that using Wednesdays would give schools the flexibility to have staff meet after students leave.
If Fridays are used, administrators said they wouldn't require schools to keep teachers in those afternoons.
I do not even remotely understand these sentences or the logic... using a Wednesday would give schools "flexability" to have staff meet after students leave.
But fast forward to a Friday early release and now administrators don't want to use the early release time for teachers to meet?
Is that what this means?? What am I missing here?
In a nutshell, they're
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 10:15 — KeungHui (author)In a nutshell, they're saying you can't expect teachers to stay those 2 1/2 hours on a Friday.
why? Why can they expect
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 11:08 — JSBinNCwhy? Why can they expect them to stay on a wednesday then??
It would be considered bad
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 11:12 — KeungHui (author)It would be considered bad for teacher morale to have the early release days on a Friday and expect them to stay. It's why there was initial resistance to having the weekly PLTs on Fridays.
I have never followed this
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 13:49 — WakeCountyParentI have never followed this logic. They have to be there regardless. What am I missing? What's the harm in trying it for a year? If it works, great, if it doesn't, try something else.
As I understand it, regular Early Release days are used for group training/professional development, right? Are these facilitated by folks within the school (peer-to-peer learning), or are external trainers invited in? Or am I confused and that's the purpose of the PLTs?
ok. thanks for clarifying.
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 11:37 — JSBinNCok. thanks for clarifying.
Let's think realistically...
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 09:45 — openmindIf the early release days are held on Fridays how productive will they be. First of all, the complaining parents, or at least a lot of them, will opt to go away those weekends and not send the kids to school at all. Secondly, how many teachers will there be that take those days as "sick"days and not come in at all. Keep them in the middle of the day. For once don't just listen to the complaining parents and look at how it will impact the overall picture.
If early release days are
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 09:57 — CaryCurmudgeonIf early release days are moved to Friday and some parents choose to pull their kids out of school, why is that a problem that WCPSS is obligated to fix? These are parents, they have a right to make that decision for their child, and the mission of WCPSS is to provide education, not to regulate the decisions of parents. Parents pulling kids out of school on Friday should have nothing to do with this decision.
Likewise, teachers have a job to do. If there is concern that teachers will call in sick on Fridays, then manage it. We have principals who also happen to be the teachers' bosses. If a teacher becomes a Friday sick problem, then address it directly. If we have to rely on a system-wide policy because we are so worried about teachers' dedication to their jobs, then that is a really sad statement.
Setting policy as you suggest is just another form of social engineering, this time applied to adults.
Well...
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 22:46 — supportwcpssBy that logic just leave it where it is and move on.
One
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 11:32 — TrailerParkGirlOne potential issue would be meeting AYP attendance targets. I'm not sure if many people are aware that those exist. I'm not aware of a school that did not meet those targets, but just wanted to point out that is a potential issue if too many parents make the decision not to send their children to school enough times.
Also, attendance does impact achievement. If a child is not in school, it is easier for them to fall behind or miss a topic, which then has to be explained for them. We have some schools who are working hard to encourage attendance.
To me, it becomes a matter of educating parents about the impacts of their decisions not to send their child to school regardless of which day of the week or type of day.
I don't get the teacher issue though, unless they generally stay later on early release days. Do they? Do meetings/training sessions go beyond the normal time the last student would normally leave? Teachers are currently expected to be/stay at school on Friday afternoons, so why would that change just because the students are not there and why would administrators expect different conduct on Wednesdays than Fridays? Do they expect different conduct from teachers on different days of the week when students are there?
From a morale standpoint, I
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 13:50 — DrActualFactualFrom a morale standpoint, I think the hardest part for the teachers that would have to stay on Friday (if that day is selected) would be for those that have older children. Managers likely avoid scheduling Friday meetings so teacher's kids won't have to stick around while all their friends are cutting out for a great weekend.
Maximize value to student achievement
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 10:28 — Dove314I thought the goal was to maximize student achievement. Why is it wrong to focus on the best scheduling to achieve that goal? It's certainly common enough practice in most private corporations to avoid Friday afternoon and Monday morning meetings to maximize their value. I'm not sure why that is considered wrong when done by WCPSS.
Parents are not employees of
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 10:33 — CaryCurmudgeonParents are not employees of WCPSS, they are the owners.
Slight correction
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 23:05 — supportwcpssTaxpayers are the owners.
You're right, I should have
Fri, 05/14/2010 - 07:25 — CaryCurmudgeonYou're right, I should have said "parents and taxpayers." Still, I don't think any of the posters offer a very good argument against early-releases being done on Fridays.
And
Fri, 05/14/2010 - 09:02 — supportwcpssI don't think you offer a good argument for why we should move it. Just leave it. You basically argued that is irrelevant which day of the week it is on. If so, then why are we bothering to discuss it.
No, I argued that it is
Fri, 05/14/2010 - 09:38 — CaryCurmudgeonNo, I argued that it is easier on families if they move it to Friday, and that WCPSS should not be making a "big brother" decision based on their concern that teachers won't have the discipline to do their jobs on a Friday afternoon.
But, as Dove suggested, it is time to agree to disagree on this one.
fuill of it
Fri, 05/14/2010 - 11:42 — supportwcpssWhy is it easier? You said it shouldn't matter, your employees work just as hard on Friday afternoons, blah, blah, blah.
By your own logic in your multitude of posts it shouldn't matter which day.
Unlike Dove I won't agree to disagree. I think you are hypocrite on this topic.
Please, you're breaking my
Fri, 05/14/2010 - 13:04 — CaryCurmudgeonPlease, you're breaking my heart.
You have a heart?
Fri, 05/14/2010 - 13:36 — user12345You have a heart?
Scarecrow....
Fri, 05/14/2010 - 13:51 — Bob_SconceMeet woodsman
So we don't want maximum return?
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 10:37 — Dove314So as "owners" of WCPSS, we don't want to maximize the impact of these meetings on student achievement?
We want to maximize the
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 10:54 — CaryCurmudgeonWe want to maximize the opportunities for each child to get the best education possible.
I don't think there is any argument that parents and teachers would find it more convenient to have early release on Fridays.
The teacher side of this is a matter of discipline. We pay our principals a lot of money, and they should be able to manage it.
The parent side of this is a matter of personal liberty, at least to me. Parents have the right to make decisions affecting their children, within the bounds of the law. Parents are adults, and can presumably make adult decisions. WCPSS has no right to make this decision based on how they want to regulate adult/parent behavior.
Technically
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 11:48 — Dove314Technically, WCPSS is owned by every taxpayer in the county, many of whom are not parents so having a long weekend or not has not impact. I suspect if you asked everyone who is a "shareholder", sacrificing efficiency of a documented method to improve student achievement because some, not all, parents would want to have some long weekends would be perceived as foolishness.
Not to mention, how would that work with HS sports?
You are mixing PLT's and
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 12:27 — CaryCurmudgeonYou are mixing PLT's and early-release days (although I think both are ideally suited to Friday afternoons).
If the "documented method to improve student achievement" you are referencing is PLT's, then you are further mixing arguments.
I am a big believer in PLT's, and I would hope all stakeholders would support them. But there is no data which would suggest that a PLT conducted on a Friday (or an early-release for that matter) is less efficient than one conducted on a Wednesday.
If early-releases were conducted on Fridays, do you not feel qualified to make the right decision for your child about whether or not they should go to school? The argument you're supporting would suggest you don't.
So You're Discounting The Business World?
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 22:37 — chaboardBut there is no data which would suggest that a PLT conducted on a
Friday (or an early-release for that matter) is less efficient than one
conducted on a Wednesday.
Moot point
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 13:08 — Dove314Mine are in school unless they are sick. We don't pull them out of school for a long weekend just because we can. If another parent wants to do so, that's their child and their remit and they can do it anytime they want, not just on a day when a 2.5 PLT is scheduled. BUT, if I, as a taxpayer and a parent, want to know that the maximum number of teachers are attending this to provide the maximum benefit to my child and others, then I prefer Wednesdays.
And I thought these were a form of extended PLT's rather than the weekly PLT's. Isn't that why this issue was raised at the Student Achievement committee meeting? Keung's post mentions:
Administrators said at the committee meeting that using Wednesdays would give schools the flexibility to have staff meet after students leave.
I thought teacher workdays were when teachers caught up on stray paperwork for grading periods, etc. How am I mixing arguments?
"as a taxpayer and a parent,
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 14:03 — CaryCurmudgeon"as a taxpayer and a parent, want to know that the maximum number of
teachers are attending this to provide the maximum benefit to my child
and others, then I prefer Wednesdays."
This is the crux of our disagreement. I do not believe that families should pay the price because we are worried that teachers will not attend on Fridays.
In my company, managers are encouraged to avoid having meetings on Friday afternoons. This does not mean that our employees have an early quitting time. Rather, this gives employees a chunk of time that they can use to collaborate with their peers, kick around ideas, and catch up on paperwork -- kind of like PLT's. It works great in the private sector and I don't know why it can't work in the public sector.
Nor do I
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 14:58 — g88ky07" believe that families should pay the price because we are worried that teachers will not attend on Fridays. "
I, and many others, are sick of paying!
You spin that rather nicely,
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 14:53 — danofncYou spin that rather nicely, but what your company is really saying is that a meeting on Friday afternoon won't be as productive as it could be.
I don't believe this issue is about teachers calling in sick or skipping the meetings. It's simply human nature to have one eye on the clock if you're in a meeting on a Friday afternoon.
So you're suggesting that
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 15:56 — CaryCurmudgeonSo you're suggesting that our teachers have one eye on the clock on the full Friday afternoons that they are in school teaching?
Actually, some very good work gets done in my company on Friday afternoons. I personally don't have my eye on the clock, nor do my employees.
Tssk
Fri, 05/14/2010 - 07:26 — Dove314Teachers themselves expressed a preference to NOT have these days scheduled on Fridays, not because they felt like they would shirk their remits on Friday afternoons. They like to try to schedule time-off on Fridays and Mondays, just like parents and other taxpayers and would like to avoid having that interfere with these days in any way.
It's time to agree to disagree.
I think you may be confusing
Fri, 05/14/2010 - 08:42 — woodstockI think you may be confusing teacher preference with the desires of the NCAE leadership. They are often not the same thing.
And how is the decision to
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 11:03 — magnetParentAnd how is the decision to have early release on Friday instead of Wednesday affecting their children any differently? Does a child learn better on Wednesday afternoon as opposed to Friday afternoon? Or is it only to convenience the parents?
The parents may be owners, but the children are the product. And if it is found that they can provide a better quality product if early release is done on Wednesdays then that is what it should be. And that is what they should base their decision on.
The only reason the would be
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 12:31 — CaryCurmudgeonThe only reason the would be able to provide a better quality "product" on Wednesday instead of Friday is that less teachers would call in sick. You are arguing that we should not have early release on Fridays (which we know is more convenient for families) because our teachers lack the discipline to do their jobs. I'd like to think our teachers are better than that, and that our administrators would step up and address the ones that aren't.
Exactly
Thu, 05/13/2010 - 10:09 — magnetParentExactly.
Which would be more convenient for me? Fridays of course. But for once they only should be asking which would be the best day for the teachers and the best day to be productive with this time. I agree Wednesday is the best day for early release.
Also, keep in mind that many sports events are held on Friday afternoons/evenings, so there could be conflicts for those teacher/coaches.