The Great Schools in Wake Coalition went live today.
According to the group's web site, its mission is to "provide accurate information to educate the public about policy initiatives that would impact the quality of education, to foster well-informed discussions about critical education issues, and to advocate for policies that improve public education in Wake County."
Based on the coalition's partners, you can tell that they're supporters of the current school diversity policy and are not fans of the new Wake County school board majority.
Based on the coalition's partners, you can tell that they're supporters of the current school diversity policy and are not fans of the new Wake County school board majority.
The coalition partners include WakeUP Wake County, Coalition of Concerned Citizens for African American Children, BiggerPicture4Wake, three chapters of the NAACP and the Raleigh-Wake Citizens Association.
The group says its core values are to produce great students, support skilled educators, support diversity, use resources efficiently, provide student stability, foster partnerships and model educational excellence.
The section on providing student stability says that "to the extent that growth in our community permits, we believe that student re-assignments should be minimized, and that calendar continuity should be available for all families."
If that sounds familiar, it pretty much is what school board candidate Rita Rakestraw said on her now-defunct campaign web site.
UPDATE
Here a few more tidbits.
BiggerPicture, the CCCAAC and the RWCA didn't endorse any of the winning school board candidates. They backed candidates who supported the diversity policy.
As for the other coalition partners who didn't make endorsements, it's fairly safe to say they would have preferred that supporters of the diversity policy had been elected.
WakeUP Wake is the lead member of the coalition. The group's hand may be noticeable in the call for "fair growth funding."

Comments
While we are on the subject of great schools
Thu, 12/24/2009 - 02:52 — TrailerParkGirlHere is a little something for the NoCanDo crowd.
School uses community connections to put focus on children and families
Lynn, Mass. - Principal Claire Crane can look out the window of her school on the outskirts of Boston, point to each house and tell you the issues inside: drug abuse, poverty, foreclosure, immigration.
The knowledge comes from the relationship Crane has with students and parents at the once-failing Robert L. Ford School, relationships that developed and thrived once the school became as focused on serving parents as on serving children.
As a "full-service" or "community school," Ford opens early and closes late, maintains partnerships with outside agencies to provide its families with social support and enrichment services, and serves as a community center for the neighborhood.
"We started by doing a questionnaire to see what parents wanted - more than half of them didn't have a high school diploma," Crane said. "The top three things they wanted were education, day care and a clean and safe neighborhood. Nobody had ever asked them that before."
Community schools have long had a foothold in Chicago and New York and are growing in cities such as St. Paul, Minn., St. Louis and Cincinnati. At a time when much of the discussion about education reform has emphasized parental involvement, the model could hold lessons for schools in Milwaukee that have struggled for years to connect with urban parents.
"A lot of parents may not have had great experiences themselves when they were in school, but we can draw them in by connecting them with services they need," said Joan Devlin, a top official with the American Federation of Teachers, a national teachers union that has been advocating for community schools.
Devlin added that as a result of helping parents, schools can relieve children of some of the non-academic baggage that's making it hard for them to learn.
Although community schools vary by design and intensity, their hallmarks include partnerships with outside agencies and some kind of coordinator who braids together the resources and matches them up with curriculum goals.
In Milwaukee, the concept is at work at Bruce-Guadalupe Community School, a kindergarten-eighth grade charter school operated by the United Community Center, and at Longfellow Elementary School, a traditional kindergarten-eighth grade school that partners with neighborhood nonprofit Journey House. Longfellow will be building an addition to be used by both the agency and the school.
Like Crane's school, the two Milwaukee schools exemplify how strong leaders can single-handedly change much of their structural design to encourage better family and community relationships.
Ford School turns around
On a typical day, Crane, 71, drives up the narrow streets of Lynn and arrives at the three-story brick school at 6:45 a.m.
Kids tend to get into trouble before and after school if their parents are working, so Crane prefers to supervise them at school rather than let them wander the streets.
Although Ford has always been a neighborhood school, parents used to wait warily on the other side of the fence while their kids walked inside. So Crane cleared a room and started offering free coffee to anyone who came in the door.
The school is old, with high ceilings and narrow hallways and one wooden-floored gymnasium that also serves as the cafeteria and auditorium. But what's most noticeable is the atmosphere: There are a lot of visitors in the building every day, talking to Crane and teachers, working with students, volunteering.
After school, an outside agency works with underperforming students on math and literacy and leads other activities until a 4:30 p.m. dinner served in the gym. Crane encourages Saturday school for chronic underachievers.
"They love it," Crane said. "All their friends are there."
A former school counselor and social worker, Crane took over Ford School in 1989. At that time, it was the lowest-achieving school in the city. Daily attendance ranged from 75% to 85%. Meanwhile, only between 10% and 20% of parents showed up at parent-teacher conferences. Each year, a third of the faculty turned over.
"I said we had to start with the family, because a family that learns together and gains together, stays together," Crane said.
In Lynn, that would take a heroic effort. Located 10 miles from Boston, the city has a population of about 87,000 and used to be a thriving factory town.
Now, the city is plagued by poverty and populated with a high number of new immigrants, many of whom cannot speak English. More than 90% of Ford students receive free- and reduced-price lunches, a common measurement of poverty. Some 86% are children of color.
Rates of child abuse and neglect outpace the nation; Ford teachers don't walk to their cars alone at night. Three murders have occurred near the school in the past year.
On the first day as principal at Ford, Crane watched as a boy rode his bicycle down the school hallway.
Wasting no time, Crane pulled out teachers who were serious about making changes and had them help her devise a new discipline plan. Teachers who didn't want to participate transferred to other schools in the system.
Then, Crane issued the survey to all the parents. The top needs: more education for themselves, day care for their kids, clean and safe neighborhoods for everybody.
Crane tackled the first by offering free night school for adults on Monday and Tuesday from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m., with free care for their children. She uses a large chunk of the extra federal money Ford gets for being a low-income school - it totals around $300,000 per year - for that purpose.
To address neighborhood concerns, Crane developed a partnership with a local citizens group and allowed it to meet at the school regularly. In exchange, members raised money to start an organic garden, right on the blacktop surrounding Ford, in raised boxes.
For day care after school, Crane and parents chose an after-school program operator that keeps the kids at school working on academics and activities up and through dinnertime. Parents pay to participate on a sliding scale, supported by local government sources of funding.
Additionally, Crane has won school grants through NASA, she pays for kids to get vision screenings and glasses, and she's known for letting local immigrants apply to be aides in the youngest classrooms. The aides are unpaid, but they soak up lessons along with the children while providing an extra set of hands to help the teacher.
Recently, a woman who wanted to lead a charm school class for the girls at Ford was OK'd by Crane, as long as she agreed to do an etiquette class for the boys, too.
"They are not getting much of that at home," Crane said.
Today, Ford's state test scores are on par with the rest of Lynn Public Schools, and higher in some subjects. The school has one of the lowest special education referral rates in the city, and daily student attendance is 91%.
Attendance at parent-teacher conferences has jumped from between 10% and 20% to between 90% and 95%.
Focus on neighborhood
On paper, community schools seem sensible. But putting them into practice can be complicated.
In Milwaukee, for instance, community schools could be stymied by what MPS sees as a strength - parents' ability to choose almost any school in the system for their child.
In 2008-'09, less than 25% of parents sent their children to the school in their attendance zone. Some even elect to bus their children across town to a lower-performing building.
In Lynn, the model has worked because the school focuses on helping the neighbors, and neighbors focus on helping the school.
"All schools should be working on what their communities need," said Maria Carrasco, a Lynn School Board member, Ford School grandparent, and member of the Highlands Coalition, a group of neighbors that meets at Ford regularly to address local issues.
"We do have fights, but you don't see violence here like in other schools," she said. "And we are a violent city."
Leadership and funding are also vital. Community schools generally have a strong school leader and a full- or part-time organizer who maintains the relationships between schools and the outside agencies.
Low-income schools that receive extra money from the federal government would have to reshuffle their priorities: Do you let go of a reading specialist to implement some other program that may help parents or families?
That's a yes, if you ask Crane. Knowing parents, their issues and how to help them can go a long way toward breaking down barriers to student achievement.
Crane said the first three years of becoming a community school were a nightmare, but that the process got easier with time.
"After you get one or two grants or partnerships going, others become easier to get," she said. "Start slow, start small and it will build itself for you."
A cynical moment
Thu, 12/24/2009 - 11:22 — lferreriI have no doubt that there are some great models out there that would help ED and minority kids, whether they are in neighborhood schools or not. I don't think the problem is that there is no way to help them. I think the problem is that there is no will to do so. I even think that the magnet school system, as it is portrayed in the media and as I think it was originally sold to the public, could work. My understanding of the magnet schools (I wasn't here when they were started so this is what I was told when we moved here) was that they were created to keep middle class students in the older schools ITB and to attract middle class students from OTB. The goal was to keep the older schools from becoming predominantly ED/minority schools. The thinking was that a middle class presence in the schools would ensure that people with influence would demand adequate facilities, good programs, etc. In return for staying in or attending these schools, the students would get some special programs. The magnet schools would get extra funds for two reasons--to pay for the special programs and to help the ED/minority kids who might need some extra attention. Instead what I see happening is that all of the extra funds seem to have gone to the special programs for the middle class kids. As a result, there is huge disparity between the offerings at the magnet schools and those at the non-magnets. As the disparity has gotten greater, the number of middle class parents who want their kids in magnet schools (who can blame them?) has increased. Since the money was not spent on programs for the disadvantaged kids, they are not better off in magnet schools, in fact they are often worse off.
What I think needs to happen, no matter how the system is changed, is that there has to be a change in the culture. Right now there are minority kids, according to the SAS report, who qualify for advanced math but are not being placed there. (There are non-minority kids facing this too but it's worse for minorities.) I'm sure other, similar decisions are being made in other subject areas. This needs to change. In the same vein, the EOG results for minority and ED kids are abysmal. There needs to be a will (either from within the system or imposed from without by the BOE or the community) to view this as unacceptable. Until that happens, I don't think any model, however successful elsewhere, will work. People can always find excuses about why a model doesn't work in their school.
Good Idea
Thu, 12/24/2009 - 09:18 — supportwcpssCost and scalability?
Sincerely,
MrNoCanDo (as labeled by you)
"On paper, community schools seem sensible. But putting them into practice can be complicated."
"Leadership and funding are also vital."
From the front page article
Thu, 12/24/2009 - 13:02 — loriac'Most support circle members had never been aware of the struggles poor people face. For example, the school system requires one of Bland's sons to attend an after-school program at a downtown elementary school. But it won't provide transportation for her other son to attend that same school, leaving her to shuttle the boys between different after-school programs in distant parts of town.
Can Do
Thu, 12/24/2009 - 12:04 — TrailerParkGirlCost - don't know on this particular school other than what was in the article, but sounds like it is covered by Title I funding, grants and public-private partnerships. Also, I will bet it is MUCH less than the cost of an uneducated and violent society. It's something like $50K/yr for prisoners.
Scalability - Chicago is moving to having all community schools. I think they are a little bigger and higher poverty than Wake last I checked. Go look at the communityschools.org site. It's started to happen all over.
The two quotes that you zeroed in on would be the ones the NoCanDo would gravitate towards. So what's your suggestion - keep having an undereducated and violent society because it's easier on the front end and it's better to have negative consequences on the back end?
We, as a community, can 1) waste our time on the 101 reasons things can't get better/it's too hard or we can 2) spend it on the 101 ways to make things better and get to work. The results of 2) are so much better than 1).
I was assigned to lead a project with a very tight deadline and the previous person assigned had already wasted much of that before it was reassigned to me. Making it happen involved numerous functional areas, so I called a meeting with all the managers of those areas. I was the lowest ranking person in the room. The meeting began with each manager whining about how they couldn't make it happen. Finally, I stopped the whine fest and said, "Senior Management expects this to be done. We can waste our time on why we think it can't be done or we can talk about how to get it done." Suddenly, the tone changed and each manager said, "Well, if I readjust this and we do that, I think we can get our part completed in time." By the end of the meeting we had a plan in place and ultimately the project was successful and on time. Was it hard work - yes, so what. Who said life was supposed to always be easy?
We, as a community, can 1)
Thu, 12/24/2009 - 22:51 — jenmanWe, as a community, can 1) waste our time on the 101 reasons things
can't get better/it's too hard or we can 2) spend it on the 101 ways to
make things better and get to work. The results of 2) are so much
better than 1).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Applause and a standing O from me. I am so sick and tired of hearing how none of these ideas can work. Of course they aren't going to be implemented overnight. Of course it is going to be hard to do. But good gravy, we CANNOT continue to do what we've been doing. We should be ashamed of this school system. We are giving the best to a few, mostly middle to upper income families through the magnet system. We cheat our low income and minority students out of a good education by expecting little from them and being happy when that's what we get. The rest of our students get the BARE minimum. It is absolutely shameful that Wake residents have put up with the low standards of this school system.
Time for the nay-sayers to get off their arses and do something positive or shut up.
We cheat our low income and
Fri, 12/25/2009 - 08:18 — red_balloonWe cheat our low income and minority students out of a good education by expecting little from them and being happy when that's what we get. The rest of our students get the BARE minimum.
I just cannot understand why the status quo side fails to see this hugely debilitating side of the cherished diversity policy. As far as education goes, they have been getting away with the "academic genocide" of low income, minority, and non-magnet students.
Fixing and not posturing
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 12:46 — Dadof3Briefly, the status-quo side is inflexible about the alternative solutions. Their numbers emphasize the relationship of F&R to academic performance, and their concerns is that breaking the current policy will effectively group F&Rs, thusly crippling the F&R children's chances for academic success. (I wish they could leave it at that and leave the racism card for when it is really needed.)
The continually unaddressed point in their argument is the role of the family, the parents or guardians, as it relates to performance. These numbers should be harder to determine, as it is more invasive to make a metric determination here. Our family has come to know several F&R families whom hated the lottery and its arbitrary reassignments; and I can't blame them.
While I want a better educational system for all children, there will be families and children (albeit a small percentage) who not only don't care about education, but actively bristle under and against it. The current policy addresses this, albeit randomly. We diminish this statistically (but this does nothing about root cause; and that's another matter) by bussing around as much as possible. Thus, we punish the F&R families who want better for their kids when the lottery's ax swings and gives the favor to the children, who, God bless them, have greater issues than public education can fix. We then double-whammy the loving and involved F&R families; and I'm tired of that.
Can we not allow for an elective system for these parents? It's a win-win for the F&R parents, the receiving schools. Yes, there will be costs but a system with willing clients will fair much better than the random conscription we now have.
Why not?
Dad, I don't think you give
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 13:17 — user12345Dad, I don't think you give others enough credit for being flexible ... I will only talk for myself ... I only want equality ... start with ALL schools are above average for ALL kids ... so you get the same above average education in SE that you get in Cary ... indicators (just a made up example - please don’t do a lot of research to prove me wrong) that that is not happening would be all the high F&R schools have all the low rated, non-certified administrator and teachers and all the Cary low F&R schools have the principles and teachers of the year, board certified teachers, all the language offerings, advanced math’s, etc. … Those things would be an indication the system has disparity …
Next, once we get to parity … the next step would be to commitment to add some resources to F&R schools as needed to improve them … that is a society decision to introduce some measured disparity in resources to a group that are not politically powerful and could be and have been ignored (54%) … with the goal of say improving on the 54% graduation rate … note, if you told me we KIPPed those kids, SASed them, etc. and 54% was all this system and any other system could do, I would sadly accept that until some innovation was discovered … we all know there are many problems and issue well beyond what the school system can rectify.
On schedule … I do not care … many people do not care… just get all the seats filled so we are working at maximum capacity ….
And I am waiting to see some VoTech plan … John don’t use up your energy on getting a new lawyer … spend you time getting a vocational program for the thousands of kids who can not go to college … give them a skill …
I would believe you more
Sat, 12/26/2009 - 23:07 — SDR256I would believe you more, and all of the collection of like-minded folks you are collecting, if there had been/will be/could be some kind of reaching out. Where is the outreached hand matt? We've tried - multiple times, but we see no reciprocation. If this could happen many, many, many things could happen - outside of politics. Think about it.
Maybe that is why the
Sun, 12/27/2009 - 10:54 — user12345Maybe that is why the initial steps need to be a lone warrior like John stepping out over and over .... let's see how Ron does with the NAACP on their outreach ...
ITA, SDR.
Sat, 12/26/2009 - 23:28 — jenmanITA, SDR.
I think you give some too much credit for flexibility
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 15:17 — TrailerParkGirlAt least in your more sensible posts, I get the impression that you believe given the resources and innovative approaches that ALL kids can achieve. However, there are those on the status quo side that do not seem to believe that and can't get passed the bigotry of low expectations, which makes them rather inflexible. They believe the only option is to mix to assumed bad eggs with the assumed good eggs to create a palatable school because the assumed bad eggs will not achieve no matter what. Those are the people that have been driving the bus on policy. I give you this example -
"We cannot have schools inundated with "those" children." - Lori Millberg
That is a whole different outlook than 'if we have higher needs students, we need to make sure we do X,Y,Z to ensure their achievement.' X being actually expect them to achieve.
I'm just guessing here (maybe you can ask him when you talk), but I'd guess John would like to be spending more energy on moving ahead. A lot of the time spent on the lawyer discussion was driven by Hill.
QED
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 13:43 — Dadof3Read what I wrote, and then re-read your response. This only appears as a thread thanks to technology; you didn't read my original post nor address any point. I'm speaking directly to you right now; you're participation here is the epitome of inflexible.
"Can we not allow for an
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 14:02 — user12345"Can we not allow for an elective system for these parents? It's a win-win for the F&R parents, the receiving schools. Yes, there will be costs but a system with willing clients will fair much better than the random conscription we now have.
Why not?"
Dad, we can have your elective system if there are actual choices people can make. I am thinking you think that the choices are all between which top school do I want to go to this year which is understandable in your area. That is not the case outside your area .... if it was, people would be indifferent most of the time and spend little time choosing ...
Get ready for it
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 14:10 — Dadof3The clueless hammer swings at you: bop!
Sure you could ask what I'm thinking but you take your boilerplate arrogant and condescending liberties.
Once again; with feeling: the epitome of inflexible. No one wants to debate with such bad faith. If this is the best you can do; your up-creek and paddle-less.
Interesting choice of words
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 14:45 — red_balloonWe believe that all children in Wake County, regardless of income, race, ethnicity, or residence, should receive the highest quality education possible.
I guess we all know this is lip service since the success of the parochial diversity goals depends upon diluting the quality of education at non-magnet schools.
The below paragraph:
We are a community coalition of organizations, business leaders, parents and citizen advocates who are working to ensure educational excellence in the Wake County Public School System.
should be amended to read:
We are a fanatical coalition of organizations, business leaders, parents and citizen advocates who are working to sustain the facade of educational excellence in the Wake County Public School System.
54.2 Coalition in Action
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 11:27 — ncmpgjrCall it Friends of Diversity.
Call it CCCAAC.
Call it what you want.
A failed system by any other name is still a failed system.
It appears that they have
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 11:16 — CaryCurmudgeonIt appears that they have learned some lessons from the spanking they took in the election. While their motives are unchanged, they have adjusted their rhetoric:
Student stability: They are no longer trying to pass of a reassignment plan affecting 26,000 students as "stability."
Healthy schools: Those words do not appear in their vision statement, probably because so many have learned that it is a hallucination which succeeds only in hiding at-risk students.
Diversity: They talk of "supporting" diversity, but gone are the declarations of doom if one school goes above 40% F&R.
MYR: Steering clear of that one.
A quick review of the makeup of this organization leaves no doubt that they will augment WEP as a public relations and political arm for those who would continue the policies which have preserved the illusion of good schools while allowing thousands of students to fall through the cracks.
how is the question
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 11:55 — loriacI read their core values and at face value, they all look reasonable.. which I guess will be the key when they start endorsing candidates in the next election.
However, reading between the lines:
'every school must be a place where teachers want to teach' - this is code for no way will there be neighborhood schools ITB, because of the fear of high F&R schools. What is their proprosal?
'support diversity ... providing exposure for students to many races, languages, arts, cultures, economic levels and ideas.' This is the one that is the most scary - how will they do this? What is the prescribed mix? The result of this is the current busing plan, which sends SE raleigh kids clear across the county, and keeps RIM kids trapped in their assigned schools w/ zero choice.
This sounds familiar - like what a great many of the people and students were saying at the last BOE meeting. Great if you are the one being exposed (ie, magnet students), not so great if you are prevented from going to your neighborhood schools so you can diversify someone else's school (and the only choice is to opt out all together - not a choice for many).
Here's where I'm not clear
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 12:29 — TrailerParkGirl"providing exposure for students to many races, languages, arts, cultures, economic levels and ideas"
To what degree do they mean this as an "and" statement? IMO an "and/or" is reasonably achievable, but an "and" only is not. For example, my understanding is that there are schools that are culturally diverse with many different languages spoken (think Davis Drive was one) but those schools were not socioeconomically diverse enough, so didn't "count." So, what is their plan for supporting their vision? Are they sticking to the previous very narrow view of diversity or moving to a broader view? Will culturally, but not SE diverse schools now "count" or still "not count" in their vision? Do they realize that the "not count" scenerio is not a very diverse view of diversity? What is their vision for balancing their concept of diversity (whatever it may be) with stability, growth and the other goals or is it simply a listing of goals like where under the assignment policy many goals were listed, not necessarily in order of importance, but one often trumped others (i.e. diversity trumping great students)?
Also, I think we need to be clear that what is happening now is not just SE Raleigh kids being sent clear across the county. There are also SE Raleigh kids sent to Garner area, Garner area to other parts of the RIM, ED RIM kids to far Western Wake.
The NED RIM are "trapped" in their assigned RIM schools, but now they've started sending some ED RIM kids out of their RIM school (where they are doing well academically relative to district norms) to WW instead of leaving them in school with the nearby NED kids. The irony of that given that Brown v BOE was about allowing students in diverse areas to attend their neighborhood school with the kids that lived near them instead of being bussed across town is not lost on me, but it seems lost on many "current policy" supporters.
Trapped
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 12:49 — RichardAndersonGood point here:
See:
http://wwwc.wcpss.net/maps/WCPSS_RAP_2011_APPROVED_20090202_SCHOOLMAP_E30_BAS.pdf
Care to guess which 4 nodes on that map have 63%, 60% and 44% F&R and 24% LEP?
Richard, Three items
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 13:36 — user12345Richard,
Three items ...
1) I agree that I hate to see these far flung nodes assigned to remote schools ... I agree that should be changed ... but given "choice" maybe these kids would like to go to this new school ....
2) I think a better questions would be .. "Care to guess which 4 nodes on that map have 5% F&R?" So many people trying to crowd up on the edge of the county border to avoid the kids in these nodes??
3) It is sad we have this map technology ... you might never know that 368.2 and 412.8 were not part of your neighborhood a few years back.
Again, you don't understand
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 14:23 — RichardAndersonThe kids would know. There is a better than average chance that the kids from those nodes will get off the same bus, go into school for breakfast and not be available to play on weekends or afterschool. It will take all of two weeks for elementary schools kids to figure it out. Thankfully, my kids and all the ones they know don't care. But don't for one minute think that the kids from those nodes aren't well aware that they aren't like the rest of the population.
Don't have to guess, I know
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 15:27 — TrailerParkGirlSome of them are where the kids live that my kids have played with at a nearby playground. BTW some of those kids are being reassigned out of school where 70% ED pass EOG (combined reading and math). User1-x claims that must have been a computer glitch. I doubt you will be surprised to know that they are apartments.
"User1-x claims that must
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 13:44 — user12345"User1-x claims that must have been a computer glitch. I doubt you will be surprised to know that they are apartments."
I agree with you TPG that these nodes are too far out ... but I am amazed that Richard is so afraid of these few kids getting into his school that he obsesses over a few "rough" nodes joining his neighborhood... Richard, there are not that many of them and they will not hurt your kids...
I amazed that you think this way
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 14:14 — RichardAndersonThat is the furthest thing from the truth. I don't care about that and if you paid attention, you'd know that. I taught in Wake's highest poverty middle school. Yeah, I afraid of those kids. Whatever.
What I am afraid of is that people like you who view the world in a segregated way having influence over my my children. My kids don't go into a room thinking about things like the color of someone's skin or if they will be "mixing" with those not like them. I don't want them infected with the idea that these things somehow matter as they do so much to you. No thanks. I want my children to grow up with open minds, not closed ones like yours that only sees the differences in people and never celebrates their commonalities. I want my children to build bridges not the walls you put up. You and your prejudice is what I am afraid of.
" I want my children to grow
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 15:10 — user12345" I want my children to grow up with open minds, not closed ones like yours that only sees the differences in people and never celebrates their commonalities. I want my children to build bridges not the walls you put up"
Richard, I don't think you are going to get that experience sending your kids to Alston Ridge and once those two F&R nodes as gone there won't be any chance ... I am aware of people's differences and try to respect /tolerate those differences ... remember I made the "investment" in the teaching the lessons you are hope to teach your children one day by living in a diverse neighborhood and sending my kids to diverse schools ....
Don't try to fool us all
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 20:35 — jenmanDon't try to fool us all into believing that you moved into your 'diverse' area specifically for the diversity. You moved from a more expensive area to a more affordable one so your wife could quit her job and homeschool your children. If I remember correctly, your kids didn't attend public school until HS--you did not think the public schools in Wake were good enough.
your move to a more 'diverse' neighborhood was out of necessity.
snort
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 15:26 — Dadof3snort
Your rants here paint an inverse picture of your professed tolerance. You can not tolerate thinking that doesn't align to yours and are monstrous in your attributions. You are bad faith from first to last sentence. I see no reason to expect otherwise from you in any other arena. Richard nailed it in another post; your style of thought and action is what we should be wary of.
Unless, of course, you are trying to cripple the very ideal you purport to embrace; like a conceptual Munchausen by Proxy pathology? But, that's just crazy talk.
Well aren't you special
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 15:18 — RichardAndersonWell aren't you special. Guess what? I live in a diverse neighborhood too. By choice. My son plays football in the street with a kid whose parents speak more Vietnamese than English. My daughter plays with the girls next door who are from Mexico and speak Spanish with their family.
Let me guess, that isn't the right type of diversity for you. You are going to try to push me back in the little stereotype box somehow. Get over yourself. As I tried to explain before, what you see as exceptional about yourself, thousands of people see as their ordinary lives.
My kids don't go to that school and if you think that I depend on the school system for the sum total of learning experiences for my children, you are sadly mistaken. Yet even if I did, unless you are so entrenched in the old stereotypes that you cannot see people as individuals rather than data points on demographers table you would probably understand that there can still be diversity without it having to conform to your own definition of it.
Not to go too far on a tangent but
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 12:09 — RichardAndersonNot to go too far on a tangent but since things seem slow today, the following got me thinking:
A lot of people who support the diversity policy claim that we live in a diverse world and so we need schools that provide "exposure for students to" such diversity. Well, if the world is so diverse, then why do they need to have a special program to make sure that they are exposed to that diversity? I wish they would be honest and say that they believe we don't have diversity in our lives and that they want to use the public education system as a way of breaking down social barriers rather than trying to portray it as some sort of educational necessity.
Not me
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 14:47 — supportwcpssI'm not as focused on the diversity side of it (although I work hard to have diversity with my children) as I am the need to not have high poverty schools. I do not believe pooring resources and money into high poverty schools will work and thus we must avoid this.
What does work?
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 14:52 — RichardAndersonSo what does work? You said "the need to not have high poverty schools" so I am assuming that you support the old WCPSS policy of managed student populations. But what has that done? We have a lower ED population than the state average, but in most cases lower ED performance. The theory that kids from poverty just need to be around kids who aren't from poverty seems to have come up with at the very best inconclusive results. So what would you change so that the WCPSS achievment gap shrinks every year instead of grows like it has been?
Broken Record
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 15:13 — supportwcpssWow, this keeps sounding like a broken record in which neither side listens to the other.
It's NOT about being around other kids. It's about schools that can't support the high end needs of these schools. And I never said I agreed with the current policy as implemented.
I agree with some on here who indicate we should group sections of the county and assign within those groups. But I still think within a group we should balance based on poverty because of the correlation. We could say we will balance based on performance but then there will be even more reassigning.
What if we went to 90% poverty schools and had a 25% graduation rate??
Help me understand
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 15:49 — RichardAndersonReally, help me understand
Why can't the schools support the high end needs? If that is a failing of the school, then why change the student? Also, I did ask you what you would change about the current policy, so I understand that you have some differences.
If the 90% in poverty is graduating at that same 25% rate no matter if they are in one school or one hundred, it doesn't make a difference to me. That is simply unacceptable. The only difference is that spreading those kids out make it easier for the administration to attain school level targets. So to you, what is the difference?
futher explanation
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 11:07 — supportwcpssRichard - Sometimes I think you are up for a real dialogue and other times I tihnk you are just looking for a weak point to poke a hole. I hope the former.
In terms of supporting the high need schools, I don't think people have a good understanding of what it takes to support these students. By reducing the number of high resource students you hopefully allow teachers to spread the effort out. I'm not saying this is working great but it's the theory at least. It also starts to conflict withwhat should the school system be responsible for. They can't control raising of the child but yet this is part of the process of making these kids more well rounded individuals.
I meant 54% is better then 25% no matter how you allocate. Is 54% acceptable - no. But just saying go back to neighborhood schools without a concrete plan on how to help the 46% is just bad leadership.
I would suggest leaving it as is and testing various new innovative processes in the current high poverty (>40%) and low end performing (<50%) schools. Test those techniques over the next 2-3 years and assess success and cost. Then implement those in other schools ad we roll back to a more neighborhood approach.
Not looking for a weak point
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 14:17 — RichardAndersonI am looking to understand. My experience as a teacher was the opposite of way you theorize.
I taught in a semi-mainstreamed classroom that had a special education resource teacher in with me. It made it far easier than those situations where I had 10 or 20 percent of the students that had special needs that required attention, but 80 who didn't. Yes, you need extra resource, I have never said otherwise, but the idea that you can disperse the high needs students and they will get a better education is contrary to everything that I experienced and learned while training to be a teacher. You focus on each student and how to reach his individual needs. The more divergent the needs in a single class, the more difficult that is, and the more likely that the child will be left behind.
Creating a lesson plan for a room full of learning disabled students was far easier than creating a lesson plan for a room a full of students and then having to stop and make sure that I took into account the few special conditions. Then during class, it was even more difficult.
I am not saying you are wrong, just that it was contrary to my experience and, based on WCPSS research for ESL kids, contrary to what is best for the child.
Leaving it like it is...
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 12:20 — Bob_SconceIn general, I agree with the view of experimenting. But, leaving the rest of the system as-is imparts a huge drag on the district. For one, if you didn't like this year's election winners, just wait for the crowd that will get elected if the current majority renigs on its promise to terminate the diversity policy. You can't stay in office by breaking campaign promises -- the voters will turn you out and elect somebody who will keep those promises. (That's a lot more true at the local level than it is at the Federal Level, where politicians have mastered the art of making it appear that they serve their constituents.)
So
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 14:02 — supportwcpssYou believe the promise was to outright terminate the policy?? Wow...I thought it was not modify to move towards neighborhood schools. but you want it completely deleted.
Do you mean
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 15:32 — TrailerParkGirlDo you mean rate at that school or overall rate for district? Our overall rate is no better than districts with higher poverty schools. The failure is still occuring, it is just occuring within a different school. We just move the chess pieces, but that does not change their performance. Of course, that should not surprise you as you expect nothing more from them than failure.
I agree
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 14:50 — red_balloonI do not believe pooring resources and money into high poverty schools will work and thus we must avoid this.
I agree we must not pour resources into high poverty schools since it would not work. : )
Richard, I think it is both
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 13:39 — user12345Richard, I think it is both an educational necessity and way to improve our society. Children who are exposed to more people and cultures are more tolerant and understanding which in turn improves their educational experience. We want a civil society where we do not try to kill each other all the time because of our differences and one that develops children to function in the society and the bigger world, as they grow older. Schools already educate kids about drugs, healthy living, being patriotic, sexual diseases, etc.; I do not think learning to be tolerant is that much different or important...
For my parents, Catholics where the enemy and the Pope the anti-Christ in their small Protestant community where they were often discriminated against in schools and jobs …. I remember growing up where Black lived on the other side of the track and had their own schools (run down neighborhood schools) … I did not see a Black in my school until my senior year in HS …. now, my kids go to church (or is it Mass?) with Catholics and Black children are often at our home studying …I am sure society will find a new group to direct hatred toward and parents and schools will need to educate kids to overcome and tolerate …
Proof
Tue, 12/22/2009 - 23:59 — SDR256"Children who are exposed to more people and cultures are more tolerant and understanding which in turn improves their educational experience. "
What proof do you have of this? So, are you saying that someone who was raised in - oh, say, Mexico or Africa can never understand the other children they are brought into contact with who may not be the same as them? I object. I think children are incredibly tolerant. I think children are wonderfully empathetic. Children are better at this than we are.
In fact - you won't believe it - but (its true) , I know children who have been raised in small town America (OH DON'T SAY IT - I will say it) who have never met a brown or black child - (OH it has been said) - who is still the same an empathetic and understanding person because they love people. Can you imagine that? People who just simply love people from the time they are little and that is how they view the world?
Empathetic, understanding and loving. I think we have to realize, as adults that THIS is how our children are delivered. They are loving and innocent when they are born.
Somehow, if we are not careful, we teach them something so much more diminished.
Kum Ba Ya
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 10:50 — supportwcpssmy Lord, Kum Ba Ya. I'm really not trying to be rude but I think your view, while wonderful, is naive. This is not how our society functions. And unless you keep children in a bubble there entire lives opinion and idea enter into the mix.
Not naive
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 14:29 — RichardAndersonI spent the first eleven years of my life in the least diverse
environment imaginable. Same ethnic group, same race, same language,
same religion, same everything. Europe, not America. The exotic
person I remember had a single grandmother who was Russian. That was
diversity. We were all of CofE. That was it. Hatred is learned. Which means it is taught. Don't try to act like it is something natural. It isn't.
Wow
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 15:52 — supportwcpssI don't think I ever used the word hatred but if you want to put words in my mouth go ahead.
Differences, impressions, stereotypes don't necessarily mean hatred. As I mentioned my parents are NOT racists filled with hate but whenever they refer to a person it's usally by color. "I was having coffee the other day and was talking with a black man".
It's a labeling thing for some in that generation and not always hatred.
Richard and SDR are correct
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 21:27 — TrailerParkGirlStereotyping, labeling whatever you want to call it are learned, not natural, and can even be unlearned. You learned from your parents. User learned from his. Perhaps that is why you both have difficulty imagining otherwise and view the world in terms of stereotypes and labels.
My Dad could talk about someone for hours and you'd know whether the person was funny, kind, etc. but you'd have no clue about their race. He would be in his 90s now.
My grandfather-in-law (same generation as my father) used to use some racial slurs (never the worst offender one though). Shortly before he died, he started to say one that he'd said many times but this time he stopped himself and said, "It's not OK to say that anymore." His wife's first questions about me when she heard my spouse (the oldest) had a girlfriend were "was I white and was I Catholic." When those Polish grandparents were young, the Polish people and the Dutch hated each other in their town to the point they would not go into each others neighborhoods. Their son married a Dutch girl. Their grandchildren have now married Protestants, a Black woman and a Latino.
The last White Surpremist march in DC had more anti-protestors who were white than marchers.
Times and people have changed much more than some seem to realize and appreciate. If you think the majority of people are racist, etc. you need to make some new acquaintances because you're hanging with the wrong crowd.
Broken record
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 22:26 — supportwcpssAgain, I never said you are either racist or not racist. But if you want to join the gang and insert words for those with differing opinions, be my guest.
Where in my post?
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 23:07 — TrailerParkGirlWhere in my post did I suggest you'd said anything about me being racist or not?
My comment was on your viewpoints on people and these issues in general (see below), not on me in particular.
"I think we are still in generation that is predisposed to having impressions that are race based and I believe it will take 2-3 generations to remove that mentality."